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Author Topic: How isn't the "The Resistance" schismatic?  (Read 9343 times)

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Offline DZ PLEASE

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Re: How isn't the "The Resistance" schismatic?
« Reply #75 on: September 18, 2017, 04:17:26 PM »
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    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: How isn't the "The Resistance" schismatic?
    « Reply #76 on: September 18, 2017, 04:19:52 PM »
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    • Ok, fine.  The resistance is schismatic.  So is the sspx.  Any trad not a sedevacantist is going to hell.  And, of course novus ordo catholics are.  Outside of sedevacantism, there is no salvation.

    Are you happy now?
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: How isn't the "The Resistance" schismatic?
    « Reply #77 on: September 18, 2017, 05:22:05 PM »
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    • How is this stupid?  It's the logical conclusion of your arguments.  If it's not, then tell me how heretics (novus ordo) and schismatics (non sedevacantists) can get to heaven?
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: How isn't the "The Resistance" schismatic?
    « Reply #78 on: September 18, 2017, 07:54:47 PM »
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    • Are R&R catholics schismatic?
    Does a schismatic, objectively, go to hell?
    Are novus ordo catholics heretics?
    Does a heretic, objectively, go to hell?
    Is the seat of the pope vacant, because he's not a catholic?

    It is absolutely certain, based on this thread (and others) that you would answer the above as 'yes'.  If you answer 'no', then you are contradicting yourself.

    Ergo, outside of sedevacantism, there is no salvation.  You HAVE to agree with this; there's 100's of posts as evidence.  Don't try to "sugar coat" it - this what you believe - so own it!
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    Offline Nooseph Polten

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    Re: How isn't the "The Resistance" schismatic?
    « Reply #79 on: September 18, 2017, 11:41:00 PM »
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    • As regards the "outside of sedevacantism there is no salvation" theme of this thread, it seems that Pope Boniface VIII made a relevant remark in his bull, Unam Sanctam: "Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff."

    [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]Sorry to say, I don't think ESNS will be catching on. :'([/color]
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: How isn't the "The Resistance" schismatic?
    « Reply #80 on: September 19, 2017, 08:40:55 AM »
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    • Thank you for agreeing that 'outside of sedevacantism there is no salvation'.  I applaud your guts in accepting the conclusion, even if I disagree with the principles it's based upon.

    The use of the term 'objectively' and 'subjectively' are important.  The Church teaches, objectively, that everyone who commits ѕυιcιdє goes to hell.  But SUBJECTIVELY, she does not condemn Joe Blow to hell.  These terms have a philosophical purpose.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: How isn't the "The Resistance" schismatic?
    « Reply #81 on: September 19, 2017, 09:49:43 AM »
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    • When has the Church EVER declared a specific person to be in hell?  Judas would be the only example I can think of, but that's only because of Jesus' comment in Scripture.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: How isn't the "The Resistance" schismatic?
    « Reply #82 on: September 19, 2017, 10:40:53 AM »
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    • Quote
    You said, "The Church teaches, objectively, that everyone who commits ѕυιcιdє goes to hell.  But SUBJECTIVELY, she does not condemn Joe Blow to hell." 

    2 separate sentences.  Teaching was not used in the 2nd sentence.  You're overanalyzing it.
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    Offline OHCA

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    Re: How isn't the "The Resistance" schismatic?
    « Reply #83 on: September 19, 2017, 10:25:52 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on September 18, 2017, 09:45:02 AM
    According to an older study by Bp. Tissier de Mallerais, the Pope is the head of both the conciliar church, and the Catholic Church.

    The study is posted here on the Dominicans of Avrille website:

    http://www.dominicansavrille.us/is-there-a-conciliar-church/

    Sedevacantists don't generally refer to a conciliar church, but Archbishop Lefebvre did. Bishop Tissier de Mallerais wrote the study based on his interpretation of Archbishop Lefebvre's views concerning the existence of the conciliar church. It makes sense to me.
    Being simultaneously a puppet of the devil (paraphrased: executor of masonry) and the Vicar of Christ makes absolutely no sense to me.
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    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: How isn't the "The Resistance" schismatic?
    « Reply #84 on: September 20, 2017, 07:13:47 AM »
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    • “Even if the Pope were Satan incarnate, we ought not to raise up our heads against him.”

    St. Catherine of Sienna

    Must an office always be either exercised or held?

    Is man not always man?

    Must a pope be always pope?

    The Vicar of Christ, as such, and by definition is Christs, is Christ's agent, is Christ's supreme agent in this world, but there is nothing stopping the man with the keys from getting a lapdance or going to Hell thereby.

    There are sins that chop his hands off however.

    s.a., e.g. "Vice"

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    Offline Meg

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    Re: How isn't the "The Resistance" schismatic?
    « Reply #85 on: September 20, 2017, 09:38:34 AM »
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    • Quote from: OHCA on September 19, 2017, 10:25:52 PM
    Being simultaneously a puppet of the devil (paraphrased: executor of masonry) and the Vicar of Christ makes absolutely no sense to me.

    It's called a Crisis. A Crisis in the Church doesn't necessarily make sense. 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Meg

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    Re: How isn't the "The Resistance" schismatic?
    « Reply #86 on: September 20, 2017, 09:50:35 AM »
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    • Quote from: Incredulous on September 16, 2017, 02:15:57 PM
    Actually, the schismatic structure is inside the Church.

    It has been proven that the theology of Vatican II is not Catholic, yet the modernist churchmen, still hold our Holy Church structure captive.

    As explained in much more detail by Father Hesse.

    https://youtu.be/Ur1OlGrTU7s?t=36

    No need to worry about a Resistance schism. We've got Church tradition and Canon Law behind us.

    This is something Bp. Fellay doesn't talk about anymore?

    Since the SSPX became "Francis kosher", Bp. Fellay acts as if the Church crisis has ended.

    I watched the entire video. It's excellent. Fr. Hesse explains quite a few issues. It's obvious from this video that the Resistance isn't schismatic. Fr. Hesse also backs up Archbishop Lefebvre.

    The Sedes don't have a canon lawyer on their side. Just Dolan and Cekada and a couple of others. And lots of laypersons who think they know what's going on, and pass judgment on those who don't see it their way. 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: How isn't the "The Resistance" schismatic?
    « Reply #87 on: September 20, 2017, 10:12:17 AM »
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    • Jumpin toad-frogs Meg!   :jumping2:



    I think we started a sede-melt-down ?
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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Meg

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    Re: How isn't the "The Resistance" schismatic?
    « Reply #88 on: September 20, 2017, 10:18:46 AM »
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    • Quote from: Incredulous on September 20, 2017, 10:12:17 AM

    Jumpin toad-frogs Meg!   :jumping2:



    I think we started a sede-melt-down ?

    Ha! That's a great photo.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29
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