Author Topic: Quo vadis "Resistentia"?  (Read 10214 times)

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Offline Cristian

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Quo vadis "Resistentia"?
« on: June 18, 2014, 09:45:21 AM »
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  • See from 49:25 to 50:43...

    Bp Williamson said:

    Quote
    Can you imagine that commanding Resistant priests is liking trying to herd cats?

    Can you imagine?

    Is it unimaginable?

    In which case, is it worth trying if it is bound to fail?

    It may be better not to attempt than to attempt and fail.

    Some of you may think it would be better to attempt because it might succeed.

    I don’t have the authority.

    If…, if…, if… by some miracle, Pope Francis rang me up next week and said:

    —You Excellency, you and I have had our divergences, but right now I am authorizing you to found a society. You go right ahead for the good of the Church.

    —Holy Father, can I have that in writing? Do you mind if I come to Rome and get that with your signature?

    —Yes, of course.

    —Alright, then I’d be on the next plane to Rome. I’d be on the next plane to Rome!

    But without that, “row up a creek without a paddle”.

    And it is not a solution.

    So, in what is called the Resistance movement, you’re going to have a problem of authority.

    Get used to the idea.



    If anyone sees any difference with +Fellay let me know...

    Offline Francisco

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    Quo vadis "Resistentia"?
    « Reply #1 on: June 18, 2014, 10:19:28 AM »
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  • Incredible! Thanks for posting Cristian!


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Quo vadis "Resistentia"?
    « Reply #2 on: June 18, 2014, 11:12:54 AM »
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  • LOL.  This ABSOLUTELY contradicts and undercuts Father Hewko's entire sermon (posted elsewhere).

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Quo vadis "Resistentia"?
    « Reply #3 on: June 18, 2014, 11:15:35 AM »
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  • No, Bishop Williamson does not have any juridical authority, but he ABSOLUTELY has the moral authority to be the de facto leader of the Resistance, yet he seems to want to do little more than post to a blog and collect money to build a lavish residence in London.

    Offline Centroamerica

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    Quo vadis "Resistentia"?
    « Reply #4 on: June 18, 2014, 11:18:59 AM »
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  • Put it into context. He's talking about the pope calling him to give him a regularized position within the officially recognized Church. He's saying he would go to Rome to get it in writing if some miracle phone call giving free reign to Tradition took place.

    Assuming people are reading and not skimming, everyone should know this.
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...


    Offline Cristian

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    Quo vadis "Resistentia"?
    « Reply #5 on: June 18, 2014, 11:19:19 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    LOL.  This ABSOLUTELY contradicts and undercuts Father Hewko's entire sermon (posted elsewhere).


    What did Fr. Hewko say?

    Offline Cristian

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    Quo vadis "Resistentia"?
    « Reply #6 on: June 18, 2014, 11:22:27 AM »
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  • Quote from: Centroamerica


    Put it into context. He's talking about the pope calling him to give him a regularized position within the officially recognized Church. He's saying he would go to Rome to get it in writing if some miracle phone call giving free reign to Tradition took place.

    Assuming people are reading and not skimming, everyone should know this.


    Therefore he (and the SSPX since always) is in an irregular position within the officially recognized Church...

    Great!

    Now I begin to understand why he asked and thanked the lifting of the excommunication...

    Offline Centroamerica

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    Quo vadis "Resistentia"?
    « Reply #7 on: June 18, 2014, 11:23:51 AM »
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  • Quote from: Cristian
    Quote from: Centroamerica


    Put it into context. He's talking about the pope calling him to give him a regularized position within the officially recognized Church. He's saying he would go to Rome to get it in writing if some miracle phone call giving free reign to Tradition took place.

    Assuming people are reading and not skimming, everyone should know this.


    Therefore he (and the SSPX since always) is in an irregular position within the officially recognized Church...

    Great!

    Now I begin to understand why he asked and thanked the lifting of the excommunication...



    Everyone has always claimed their status is currently irregular. They have supplied jurisdiction which is an extraordinary situation. Most readers will understand this.
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...


    Offline JMacQ

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    Quo vadis "Resistentia"?
    « Reply #8 on: June 18, 2014, 12:04:03 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    No, Bishop Williamson does not have any juridical authority, but he ABSOLUTELY has the moral authority to be the de facto leader of the Resistance, yet he seems to want to do little more than post to a blog and collect money to build a lavish residence in London.


    Do you really believe that His Excellency Bishop Williamson wants to do little more than post to a blog? Do you really believe that he is building a lavish residence in London? And that all he does besides blogging is to collect money for that purpose?

    This is nothing less than calumny.
    O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!
    Praised be Jesus ad Mary!

    "Is minic a gheibhean beal oscailt diog dunta"

    Offline Matthew

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    Quo vadis "Resistentia"?
    « Reply #9 on: June 18, 2014, 12:28:27 PM »
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  • Quote from: Centroamerica


    Put it into context. He's talking about the pope calling him to give him a regularized position within the officially recognized Church. He's saying he would go to Rome to get it in writing if some miracle phone call giving free reign to Tradition took place.

    Assuming people are reading and not skimming, everyone should know this.


    For the record, if Bishop Fellay did this same thing (accepted a unilateral/one-sided official recognition and blessing from Rome, a rubber-stamp for all the SSPX is doing) no one would have had a problem with it -- least of all me.

    The issue is that, despite RUMORS to the contrary back in 2012, that is not what was on the table. Such a hypothetical is just that -- a hypothetical and a ridiculous, unrealistic pipe dream to boot.

    The fact of the matter is, the SSPX is NOT contemplating such an "instant recognition from Rome with no obligations on our side". No, they are exiling priests, kicking out 25% of the bishops because of "politically incorrect beliefs", purging bookstores, changing official teachings on Vatican II, preaching pro-Vatican II, diverging from Abp. Lefebvre on many points including the Pope question, becoming dogmatic sedeplenists, chasing "numbers", human respect and fame with projects like the Disneyland seminary, etc.

    So it's a moot point. The SSPX is already "giving" on its side -- it's not just receiving a unilateral recognition from Rome. It's too late for that.

    If I went up to my neighbor and gave him $200 every day, trying to woo him into giving me his tractor, and after several months he finally gives it to me, can I really celebrate that I got a "free tractor"? Once I shell out the first several thousand dollars, it's no longer a "free tractor" even if the neighbor ends up giving it to me. Understand?

    I mean, don't we all wish for such a sweetheart deal! But it can't happen now. The SSPX has already compromised in exchange (past tense).
    Start your Amazon.com session by clicking this link, and my family and I get a commission on your purchase!

    Offline Centroamerica

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    Quo vadis "Resistentia"?
    « Reply #10 on: June 18, 2014, 12:44:08 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Quote from: Centroamerica


    Put it into context. He's talking about the pope calling him to give him a regularized position within the officially recognized Church. He's saying he would go to Rome to get it in writing if some miracle phone call giving free reign to Tradition took place.

    Assuming people are reading and not skimming, everyone should know this.


    For the record, if Bishop Fellay did this same thing (accepted a unilateral/one-sided official recognition and blessing from Rome, a rubber-stamp for all the SSPX is doing) no one would have had a problem with it -- least of all me.

    The issue is that, despite RUMORS to the contrary back in 2012, that is not what was on the table. Such a hypothetical is just that -- a hypothetical and a ridiculous, unrealistic pipe dream to boot.

    The fact of the matter is, the SSPX is NOT contemplating such an "instant recognition from Rome with no obligations on our side". No, they are exiling priests, kicking out 25% of the bishops because of "politically incorrect beliefs", purging bookstores, changing official teachings on Vatican II, preaching pro-Vatican II, diverging from Abp. Lefebvre on many points including the Pope question, becoming dogmatic sedeplenists, chasing "numbers", human respect and fame with projects like the Disneyland seminary, etc.

    So it's a moot point. The SSPX is already "giving" on its side -- it's not just receiving a unilateral recognition from Rome. It's too late for that.

    If I went up to my neighbor and gave him $200 every day, trying to woo him into giving me his tractor, and after several months he finally gives it to me, can I really celebrate that I got a "free tractor"? Once I shell out the first several thousand dollars, it's no longer a "free tractor" even if the neighbor ends up giving it to me. Understand?

    I mean, don't we all wish for such a sweetheart deal! But it can't happen now. The SSPX has already compromised in exchange (past tense).



    Great explanation. I didn't see the need to explain all of those things. People who have been following what has happened would have known.
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Quo vadis "Resistentia"?
    « Reply #11 on: June 18, 2014, 12:55:01 PM »
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  • Quote from: Cristian
    Quote from: Ladislaus
    LOL.  This ABSOLUTELY contradicts and undercuts Father Hewko's entire sermon (posted elsewhere).


    What did Fr. Hewko say?


    He went on and on about how there can be no working relationship with Rome until they convert from their modernism.  He denounced the position of Bishop Fellay that it would be OK if they were given free rein and were unmolested by Rome.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Quo vadis "Resistentia"?
    « Reply #12 on: June 18, 2014, 12:59:46 PM »
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  • Quote from: JMacQ
    Quote from: Ladislaus
    No, Bishop Williamson does not have any juridical authority, but he ABSOLUTELY has the moral authority to be the de facto leader of the Resistance, yet he seems to want to do little more than post to a blog and collect money to build a lavish residence in London.


    Do you really believe that His Excellency Bishop Williamson wants to do little more than post to a blog? Do you really believe that he is building a lavish residence in London? And that all he does besides blogging is to collect money for that purpose?

    This is nothing less than calumny.


    Bishop Williamson is saying that he does not want to assume any kind of true leadership role in the Resistance, despite the fact that he clearly has the moral authority to do so.  Consequently, that reduces his role in the Resistance to that of blogging.  He's collecting money ostensibly to build some Resistance headquarters in London, but at the same time he's saying that there is no such thing as a Resistance, certainly nothing formal enough to require a formal base of operations or a headquarters.  None of it is consistent or makes any sense.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Quo vadis "Resistentia"?
    « Reply #13 on: June 18, 2014, 01:00:53 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Quote from: Centroamerica


    Put it into context. He's talking about the pope calling him to give him a regularized position within the officially recognized Church. He's saying he would go to Rome to get it in writing if some miracle phone call giving free reign to Tradition took place.

    Assuming people are reading and not skimming, everyone should know this.


    For the record, if Bishop Fellay did this same thing (accepted a unilateral/one-sided official recognition and blessing from Rome, a rubber-stamp for all the SSPX is doing) no one would have had a problem with it -- least of all me.


    Father Hewko rejected this kind of thinking out of hand.

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Quo vadis "Resistentia"?
    « Reply #14 on: June 18, 2014, 01:14:04 PM »
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  • What happened to "superiors affect inferiors?"  

    Sounds like BS to me. Sorry.
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