Author Topic: Question regarding SSPX being assumed into the Novus Ordo  (Read 1700 times)

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Offline Emitte Lucem Tuam

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Question regarding SSPX being assumed into the Novus Ordo
« on: April 19, 2017, 06:42:46 PM »
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  • Assuming that the SSPX will be joining the Novus Ordo with full recognition soon, what are we to make of this?  Will that mean that Novus Ordo sacraments will be valid for SSPX adherents?  If I can't make it to my SSPX chapel for the Sacrament of Penance,  can I go to the local Novus Ordo parish and recieve the Rite of Reconciliation and be validly absolved?  If I can't make it to Low Mass at my SSPX chapel on Saturday morning, can I go to the rock-and-roll Youth Mass on Saturday afternoon and validly receive the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass for Sunday?  
    Just asking...?  

    Offline Binechi

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    Re: Question regarding SSPX being assumed into the Novus Ordo
    « Reply #1 on: April 19, 2017, 07:21:38 PM »
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  • Good Questions ....


    Offline BumphreyHogart

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    Re: Question regarding SSPX being assumed into the Novus Ordo
    « Reply #2 on: April 19, 2017, 07:44:35 PM »
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  • It has been well-established, morally, from Church history, that when one sees at least one serious danger to the faith, we must flee that association, regardless of whether the association still has valid Sacraments. The priority is the moral obligation to flee what is a danger to faith. This is what occurred, famously, with St. Athanasius and his few followers. Forget whether the Sacraments of valid, the prime question is, "is there a danger to faith by this association?"

    If yes, then simply stay away, sufferings come what may.
    "there can be no holiness where there is disagreement with the pope" - Pope St. Pius X

    Today, only Catholics holding the sedevacantist position are free from the anguish entailed by this truth.

    Offline poche

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    Re: Question regarding SSPX being assumed into the Novus Ordo
    « Reply #3 on: April 19, 2017, 11:28:25 PM »
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  • It has been well-established, morally, from Church history, that when one sees at least one serious danger to the faith, we must flee that association, regardless of whether the association still has valid Sacraments. The priority is the moral obligation to flee what is a danger to faith. This is what occurred, famously, with St. Athanasius and his few followers. Forget whether the Sacraments of valid, the prime question is, "is there a danger to faith by this association?"

    If yes, then simply stay away, sufferings come what may.
    I think the key phrase in this was, "If I can't make it to my SSPX chapel" Mgr Williamson and Fr. Pfeiffer have both stated that in these circumstances it is ok to go to the Novus Ordo.  

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Question regarding SSPX being assumed into the Novus Ordo
    « Reply #4 on: April 20, 2017, 07:04:44 AM »
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  • Assuming that the SSPX will be joining the Novus Ordo with full recognition soon, what are we to make of this?  Will that mean that Novus Ordo sacraments will be valid for SSPX adherents?  If I can't make it to my SSPX chapel for the Sacrament of Penance,  can I go to the local Novus Ordo parish and recieve the Rite of Reconciliation and be validly absolved?  If I can't make it to Low Mass at my SSPX chapel on Saturday morning, can I go to the rock-and-roll Youth Mass on Saturday afternoon and validly receive the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass for Sunday?  
    Just asking...?  
    In a nutshell, what it means is that the SSPX has compromised, officially - currently it is not official because they have not yet officially joined the NO.

    Receiving the sacraments from NO priests is risky, too risky for me because of the doubtful validity of the NO priests. Even if the priests here and their within the NO are valid, the sacraments may not be due to the NO formula that is used. These things the SSPX used to preach, they used to preach this because the people needed and still need to hear this.

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    However, it is perfectly possible to have a moral certitude. In the traditional rites of the sacraments and of Mass the guarantee of this moral certitude is contained in the rites themselves. For the traditional rites for Mass and the sacraments express the intentions of the Church in a very explicit manner, leaving no room for doubt whatsoever. The same is not the case for the new rites, framed explicitly to be ambiguous, and to be just as compatible with a Protestant intention as with a Catholic one. Since they do not express the intention of doing what the Church does, the intention of the priest cannot be explicitly known. Consequently there is always a doubt as to the intention of the priest in the celebration of the New Mass and sacraments, which does not in any way exist in the traditional rite. The only way to have moral certitude of valid sacraments is to assist at the traditional rite of Mass. Although theoretically it would be possible for a priest to celebrate sacrilegiously in the traditional rite by having a positive counter intention, it is hardly likely, given that the correct intention is repeated several times, which is not the case in the new rite. To the contrary, it is very likely that a Novus Ordo priest celebrate invalidly through lack of intention, since the full and correct intention is not included in the texts of the New Mass.

    I disagree with +Williamson in regards to attending the Novus Ordo "mass" in cases of crises of faith / dire necessity. I believe that if the necessity is so dire, then it is even more necessary to avoid the evil thing because of what we know it is, rather than participate in it in case it might not be what we know it is - which while I understand his reasoning, in this case it is nonsensical to me.

    The quote from the old SSPX above stands as the truth of the matter and is the very reason the SSPX was founded in the first place, it is the reason they even exist at all.
    Do not be afraid to abandon yourself unreservedly to His loving Providence, for a child cannot perish in the arms of a Father Who is omnipotent.

    St. Margaret Mary Alacoque


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Question regarding SSPX being assumed into the Novus Ordo
    « Reply #5 on: April 21, 2017, 12:15:46 AM »
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  • Yet, another Novus ordo miracle!


     Bishop Fellay was "transported" into newChurch.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline rosary93

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    Re: Question regarding SSPX being assumed into the Novus Ordo
    « Reply #6 on: May 01, 2017, 02:29:16 PM »
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  • yet officially joined the NO.


    I disagree with +Williamson in regards to attending the Novus Ordo "mass" in cases of crises of faith / dire necessity. I believe that if the necessity is so dire, then it is even more necessary to avoid the evil thing because of what we know it is, rather than participate in it in case it might not be what we know it is - which while I understand his reasoning, in this case it is nonsensical to me.

    I have been going to NO masses for years now, was o/side all Church when really young
    so anyway, I have had one bad experience w/ NO priests after another and so I tend to believe what you are saying here. You wouldn't believe the chaos in my life. And I am wondering how much of that has to do with being in NO churches too long? Only God knows the full extent of the problem and the full extent of how t he 2  are related. But I know one thing: I have had enough of NO priests

    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    Re: Question regarding SSPX being assumed into the Novus Ordo
    « Reply #7 on: May 01, 2017, 02:38:40 PM »
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  • I have been going to NO masses for years now, was o/side all Church when really young
    so anyway, I have had one bad experience w/ NO priests after another and so I tend to believe what you are saying here. You wouldn't believe the chaos in my life. And I am wondering how much of that has to do with being in NO churches too long? Only God knows the full extent of the problem and the full extent of how t he 2  are related. But I know one thing: I have had enough of NO priests
    I grew up in the novus ordo, and my family traveled a lot.  So, we got to see some really bad chapels, even to the point of there being hula dancing in the sanctuary!   :o  So, I know how you feel...   :-[
    If you can get away from the novus ordo, please do!  We are all here to help you find a better place to attend Mass.  Be strong and keep fighting the good fight!  You shall be in our prayers!   :)
    "Jesus, Meek and Humble of Heart, make my heart like unto Thine!"

    http://whoshallfindavaliantwoman.blogspot.com/


     

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