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Author Topic: Question about Garabandal  (Read 1679 times)

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Offline de Lugo

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Question about Garabandal
« on: December 06, 2022, 11:38:46 AM »
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  • I am not very well informed on private revelations (except for perhaps Fatima), so wanted to ask this question regarding Msgr. Williamson's acceptance of Garabandal:

    I have read here about the very strange behaviour of the seers, walking like crabs and spiders, or backwards, etc, and that people say this seems to be more inspired by the devil than heaven.

    But just to play devil's advocate, was not S. Bernadette also accused of bizarre behaviour at Lourdes (bathing in mud, eating weeds and grass, etc.) as a test of her humility?

    Is it possible that the seers at Garabandal also were put to a similar test of humility and obedience, knowing their begahviour would be taken by others to the discredit of the apparitions/revelations?

    I'm just asking the question, not stating a belief.
    Noblesse oblige.


    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Question about Garabandal
    « Reply #1 on: December 06, 2022, 05:04:36 PM »
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  • Firstly, the burden of proof is on the person claiming the apparition. It is up to the seers of Garabandal to prove they saw Our Lady. Otherwise we must prove Our Lady did not appear, in the lack of definitive proof.

    Secondly, St. Bernadette dug a miraculous spring out of the ground with her bare hands. Those waters have healed countless thousands. That is a sign of God's presence. To my knowledge, no one has been healed at Garabandal. On the contrary, the one priest seems to have been killed by the apparition (!!!), and there was a blind man who was promised that he would be healed and he wasn't. :laugh1: I shouldn't laugh, it's so appalling.

    Thirdly, Garabandal meets all the normal criteria of satanic activity: bizarre activity, useless and bizarre antics such as running backwards, untangling a bunch of rosaries, nonsense like that.


    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Question about Garabandal
    « Reply #2 on: December 06, 2022, 05:07:22 PM »
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  • This is a good account of the reasons to think Garabandal is satanic.





    The (Disturbing) Facts of Garabandal
    1. On the Garabandal website, https://www.garabandal.us/, it says, "On June 18, 1961, four girls, Conchita Gonzalez (12), Mari Cruz Gonzalez (11) Jacinta Gonzalez (12), and Mari Loli Mazon (12) were playing on the outskirts of the village when they heard a sound like thunder." 
    Problems:
    • The girls were not "playing"--they had committed sin by stealing apples. 
    • They had felt guilty and decided to "throw stones at the devil" who is "to the left side"
    • When they heard the thunder they felt thrust onto their knees as if by some unseen force
    When they went into "ecstasy" and had visions, they were bent over backwards and walked that way so quickly, many of the villagers had a hard time keeping up by running forwards. Last year a movie about Garabandal was released (see https://www.garabandalthemovie.com/en/). The movie accurately displays how Conchita looked in this state--see picture below:
    Immediately, it reminded me about a movie poster from a horror movie concerning possession:


    Walking and doing things backwards is also a sign of the Satanic. Moving backwards is exactly what occultist Aleister Crowley wrote about in his book Magick in Theory and Practice:

     First Method. Let the Exempt Adept first train himself to think backwards by external means, as set forth here following.

    (“a”) Let him learn to write backwards, with either hand.
    (“b”) Let him learn to walk backwards.
    (“c”) Let him constantly watch, if convenient, cinematograph films, and listen to phonograph records, reversed, and let him so accustom himself to these that they appear natural, and appreciable as a whole.
    (“d”) Let him practice speaking backwards; thus for “I am He” let him say, “Eh ma I”.
    (“e”) Let him learn to read backwards. In this it is difficult to avoid cheating one’s self, as an expert reader sees a sentence at a glance. Let his disciple read aloud to him backwards, slowly at first, then more quickly.
    (“f”) Of his own ingenium, let him devise other methods. 
    (See online at http://www.sacred-texts.com/oto/lib913.htm; Emphasis mine)

    2. The “Virgin” asked that the girls not bring blessed sacramentals [rosaries, crucifixes, etc.], because she wanted to bless these objects herself. The vision is reported to have blessed and kissed hundreds of objects, such as pebbles, which were treated as "sacramentals." This is troubling for two reasons: first, because only blessed sacramentals affect the devil and fallen angels; second, the Blessed Virgin Mary is not a priest and therefore she cannot confer a priestly blessing--especially upon mundane objects like pebbles.

    3. A priest, Fr. Luis Andreu, went with the children as they marched backwards into the woods like they had "wings on their heels." He then claimed he believed in the apparitions and was "overwhelmed with joy." While telling all this to Fr. Valentin, the pastor of the village church, Fr. Andreu suddenly declared that he felt sleepy, lowered his head, coughed, and died on the spot. The priest was young (not more than 40 years old), and had no history of heart problems, no family history of heart problems, and had not been seriously ill. Garabandal supporters claim he "died from joy." It was claimed by the seers his body would be found incorrupt.  When his body was exhumed, it was decomposing normally. Defenders of the apparitions claim that his body will become incorrupt after "The Great Miracle." My readers can correct me, but I've never heard of a saint's body going from corruption to incorruption. Moreover, the seers never said this beforehand, it was made up post factum upon finding his body in a state of corruption.

    4. At the death of Roncalli (John XXIII), many people wished the Council to end. Conchita said that she knew that the next "pope" would continue the Council, and she was happy about it.

    5.  Conchita and the seers were often found in contradictions regarding the dates of the alleged "Great" miracle, warning, chastisement, etc. 

    6. The children would often open their mouths and stick out their tongues while St. Michael the Archangel would give them "invisible Holy Communion." To end the incredulity of some, Conchita claimed God would prove this was true. On July 18, 1962, during a nighttime ecstasy, there is film footage of what appears to be a Communion Host appearing on Conchita's tongue which she then consumes. Conchita reportedly admitted to Father J. Pelletier that she herself had stolen the Host from the tabernacle of the Church and placed It on the roof of her mouth, letting It drop down on her tongue for the so-called "mystical Communion." 

    7. Many men testified that while in their ecstasies and on their knees bent backwards, the girls were rigid and impossible to move. It was if they were frozen and weighed hundreds of pounds. The men of the village could neither lift or move small, thin girls. 

    8. Conchita reportedly said the Blessed Mother "played hide and seek" with her.

    9. All four children signed a docuмent with the Vatican II bishop agreeing with the findings of the  Counterfeit Church and promising never to promote the apparitions again. Does that sound like something real seers would do? The children at Fatima refused to retract what they had seen and heard even when an evil man threatened to kill them unless they did so. The girls at Garabandal later retracted their retraction. 

    10. The Night of the Screams: This point is worthy of special mention as those who accept Garabandal use it to assert the apparitions were a warning against Vatican II. This event was actually over two nights; June 18 and 19, 1962. Two of the seers, Mari-Loli and Jacinta went into the woods on the edge of town. They went into ecstasy on their knees and they shouted to "Mary," --"Don't tell us these things!" They then screamed all night in such a terrifying manner that the whole village was up and afraid to approach them. The other two seers remained in the village. The sounds were so frightening, here's what a burly villager said in an interview: "Look, I don't want to brag, but I'm a man, it might be said, who doesn't know fear..but on those nights of the screams, with everyone together in darkness, in silence, hearing the girls' sobbing and screeching in the distance, I shook so that my knees knocked against each other so much I couldn't stop them. You can't imagine what it was. I have never experienced anything like it." (Testimony of Mr. Pepe Diez, stonemason in Garabandal).

    On the second night, Conchita joined them in the screams. Only the prayers of the villagers made the screams subside. Every single resident of Garabandal asked their priest to hear their Confession the next day. What caused the screaming? They were allegedly told that prior to the three "Great" events, the Church would be nearly destroyed and the Mass would nearly disappear. They also saw the "reappearance"  of Communism.

    Was this a vision of Vatican II, and a major resurgence of Communism post 1989? Consider this: What could be more frightening than seeing Hell? Yet when the three children at Fatima were shown Hell by the Blessed Mother, there was no screaming. And why would the Blessed Mother inflict such fear for two whole nights? I can only imagine how frightening seeing little girls bent backwards in the woods at night screaming at the sky with unearthly sounds for hours must be.

    11. At the last appearance in 1965, Conchita claimed that Archangel Michael had to tell her the message because "Mary was too upset to speak." She stood under the Cross of Her Son, but couldn't deliver a message from Heaven?

    12. In 1966 Conchita wanted to enter the Carmelite Convent in Pamplona. "Jesus" told her to go back to the world (!) The Garabandal messages acknowledge the validity of Vatican II, the false religion it created, and its false popes.

    13. Joseph Lomangino, a blind man, was promised by "Our Lady" that she would restore his sight on the day of the "Great Miracle." Mr. Lomangino died on June 18, 2014 at the age of 86 at his home in New York. Rather than admit this "prophesy" was false, promoters and defenders of Garabandal point to the fact that he died on June 18th--exactly 53 years after the first "apparition" and there is some "mystical significance." Perhaps he recovered his sight spiritually, not physically, etc.  Yet the Great Miracle did not occur, and they can't escape that fact.

    14. Two of the "seers" admitted to hiding a statue of the Blessed Mother in the woods so they could claim Mary told them where to go and find it. They did this (allegedly) because they were jealous that "Mary" talked to Conchita the most.

    15. Where are the seers today? Mari Loli Mazon came to the United States and lived in New Hampshire until her death in 2009, just before turning 60 years old. Jacinta González became Jacinta Moynihan and lives with her husband and daughter in California. Mari Cruz González lives in Aviles, Spain with her husband and four children. Conchita made a museum of her house in Garabandal. She has since sold that house and owns a house in New York with her husband and a flat in Fatima as well. Compare that with St. Bernadette in Lourdes. Conchita (like the others) all attend the Vatican II sect. Sadly, Conchita lives within an hour of the SSPV, SSPX, and Fr. DePauw's Ave Maria Chapel, none of which she will attend, because she fully accepts Vatican II.

    Online St Giles

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    Re: Question about Garabandal
    « Reply #3 on: December 06, 2022, 07:22:49 PM »
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  •  untangling a bunch of rosaries, 
    What demon would want to untangle a bunch of rosaries? I'd expect all the rosaries nearby to be tangled up instead.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Question about Garabandal
    « Reply #4 on: December 07, 2022, 02:04:17 PM »
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  • What demon would want to untangle a bunch of rosaries? I'd expect all the rosaries nearby to be tangled up instead.
    .

    Miracles that come from God are serious things that are done for serious reasons, such as curing the sick, usually. Look at the miracles of Our Lord. Either curing the sick or multiplying the loaves, calming the storm to save the lives of the Apostles, casting out demons, all things that help people in a major way.

    Miracles that resemble parlor tricks done for no serious reason, such as untangling rosaries at an impossibly fast speed, are typically done by the devil. Think of Simon Magus flying in the air, for example. A useless stunt. Not the sort of thing God uses His power to perform.


    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Question about Garabandal
    « Reply #5 on: April 10, 2023, 09:56:24 PM »
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  • I am not very well informed on private revelations (except for perhaps Fatima), so wanted to ask this question regarding Msgr. Williamson's acceptance of Garabandal:

    I have read here about the very strange behaviour of the seers, walking like crabs and spiders, or backwards, etc, and that people say this seems to be more inspired by the devil than heaven.

    But just to play devil's advocate, was not S. Bernadette also accused of bizarre behaviour at Lourdes (bathing in mud, eating weeds and grass, etc.) as a test of her humility?

    Is it possible that the seers at Garabandal also were put to a similar test of humility and obedience, knowing their begahviour would be taken by others to the discredit of the apparitions/revelations?

    I'm just asking the question, not stating a belief.
    After seeing the second interview of Bp Williamson today where he states he still believes in garabandal I am starting to think that belief in (false) private revelations has some relation with the denial of Church dogma (eg. EENS).