Author Topic: Priests that grew up in traditionalism might lack the reality of the novus? (Read 3526 times)

nctradcath · « **on:** July 01, 2016, 03:04:10 PM »

I was thinking about the discussion of a certain priest that grew up in the SSPX and it made me think that young priests that grew up in the SSPX probably have a warped understanding of the gravity of the Novus Ordo abuses and clergy? I grew up in the Novus Ordo and went to a new Jesuit HS in the 90's in CT and saw was given the new Church experience in all its wretchedness. If I grew up in traditionalism, I don't think I would have had a clue about the Novus Ordo Church and its true evil. What does the forum think?

Matto · « **Reply #1 on:** July 01, 2016, 03:09:23 PM »

I think you make a good point. If you grew up in tradition and never had any experience with the Novus Ordo, how would you know how evil and faithless it is? I could understand how one who has no experience with the Novus Ordo could underestimate the evil of the Novus Ordo and the wickedness of the modernists who control it.

Matthew · « **Reply #2 on:** July 01, 2016, 03:11:35 PM »

Quote from: nctradcath

I was thinking about the discussion of a certain priest that grew up in the SSPX and it made me think that young priests that grew up in the SSPX probably have a warped understanding of the gravity of the Novus Ordo abuses and clergy? I grew up in the Novus Ordo and went to a new Jesuit HS in the 90's in CT and saw was given the new Church experience in all its wretchedness. If I grew up in traditionalism, I don't think I would have had a clue about the Novus Ordo Church and its true evil. What does the forum think?

You might be on to something.

"The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence."

Perhaps I lived the Novus Ordo experience vicariously through my mother, who told us many times of the abuses and ugliness she left. So I guess it counted as first-hand, since I had a good imagination and was told about it so many times. But more than that, my uncle, great-uncle and others reinforced all the things wrong with the Novus Ordo, including during catechism class at my Independent chapel.

Oh, and my priest was a hard-core Trad as well. Far from giving spiritual or "airy fairy" sermons, he often criticized the communists, Freemasons, and Modernists in the Vatican. Especially Pope John Paul II, who was a fellow Pole.

I think that steady diet is what helped me.

But it was an independent chapel, not SSPX. And certainly not neo-SSPX "let's focus on the positives" like your typical Indult chapel, with constant nudges to not be so angry at Vatican II, "Come on, it's not a Superheresy." which is precisely what the neo-SSPX is uttering these days.

I think you're on to something with this topic.

ihsv · « **Reply #3 on:** July 01, 2016, 04:15:37 PM »

I've had this thought, too. I grew up in the Novus Ordo, and having had those experiences helped me value the treasures of tradition, and fear the influences of novelty. In an admittedly imperfect attempt to convey the same to my children, I have purposely shown them YouTube videos of the Novus Ordo (no, I haven't gone looking for the most bizarre "versions", either), and used it as an instruction tool. It's not enough to know "why the true Mass". It's essential to know "why NOT the New Mass." Their childlike reactions to the videos were honest, forthright, and a clear indication that they "get it."

covet truth · « **Reply #4 on:** July 01, 2016, 04:42:36 PM »

I grew up before Vat II and when the N.O. came long I was repulsed by it and spent the next few years searching for the Mass I was raised with. So, it wouldn't hurt to show them why we remain with the Tridentine Mass. There is such a distinct difference that it should shock them to see it as it did me so many years ago. I'm of an older generation and the generations that followed can't remember or have never seen the N.O. Maybe they, too, need to be shown why their parents walked away after Vatican II.

TKGS · « **Reply #5 on:** July 01, 2016, 05:45:21 PM »

I grew up during "the Changes". My older children have a memory of the Novus Ordo but my younger children do not. I have been very concerned that they know what the Novus Ordo is all about and why they are Catholic...that is, traditional Catholic and not Novus Ordo "Catholic". I have told them that, statistically, some of them are likely to reject the faith and some time in the future; but, I've also told them, they will not be able to blame me for not teaching them the faith or why the True Faith is necessary for salvation.

Every morning we have what we have come to call "Eight O'Clock Class". It's the time for family announcements (we have family discussions at meal times). It's also the time we discuss current issues in the Church. We often discuss issues that come up here on CathInfo and what we find from other websites. The children know why the Novus Ordo is a false religion and we discuss things that happen in the Novus Ordo. We occasionally watch Youtube video that come out showing things that go on there. I note that most of those videos are not being covertly filmed and being exposed--they are usually being openly filmed and posted by proud participants.

I think that if children grow up in tradition and are ignorant of the Crisis in the Novus Ordo the parents are almost always 100% to blame in those cases the children embrace the Conciliar church.

mw2016 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 01, 2016, 06:55:00 PM »

Fr. Pfeiffer recently gave a sermon in Phoenix where he mentioned that he recently met a THIRD generation Trad in St. Mary's who was 19 years old who did not know who +ABL was.

I had, up to that point, not told my children (who are all very young) about the Novus Ordo or VII or that there even was another Mass because the TLM is all they've ever known and I thought it would be good to preserve their innocence.

But, after hearing Fr. Pfeiffer's story I decided to explain it all to my older ones who could understand, because I don't want my kids to grow up like that. They needed to know why we do what we do.

I sort of woory about the new priests coming out of Winona because, if our "older" priests are completely neutered, then what is Winona going to be churning out??

I really don't know.

Emitte Lucem Tuam · « **Reply #7 on:** July 01, 2016, 07:13:17 PM »

I don't want to derail this thread but I converted to The Catholic Faith directly through an independent chapel (and yes, there are undertones of sedevacantist thinking in our chapel, but I digress....) from Protestantism. I never experienced the Novus Ordo and can only conceptualize the Catholic Faith as the TLM, the traditional Sacraments, etc.. I'm sure younger priests, who grew up in traditional chapels and also never experienced the "Novus Ordo" , whether sede or not, have no real basis in what the "Novus Ordo" is all about. What are we to make of the younger generation and the converts to the traditional Catholic Faith who never experienced the "Novus Ordo" church? What will our future be?

Ekim · « **Reply #8 on:** July 01, 2016, 07:31:49 PM »

"What we have lost and the road to restoration"

Is a good video to show those who may not understand the fight for Tradition. My teenaged boys, who have no knowledge of the NO said it really helped them understand. You can find it on YouTube or purchase it from "In the Spirit of Chartres Committee".

wallflower · « **Reply #9 on:** July 01, 2016, 08:11:58 PM »

You're absolutely on to something. I witnessed this firsthand recently. For myself I got in under the wire I think. I grew up hearing the reasons why my parents switched. I remember our NO church and the differences were active discussions in our home. And they were active discussions based on experience, not an imaginary boogeyman.

What I saw recently was several young people who were raised SSPX and have no idea what the NO and its liberal errors are like. Because they have no concrete experience, they were completely unable to detect it coming from their SSPX priest. I am not nit picky and wanting to grasp any little detail to accuse the priests of being liberal, this was a very serious subject and with several people repeating the same thing independently of each other, there was no room for error in my understanding. It was a shocking eye-opener for me, not only that there really are liberal priests in the SSPX but that cradle trads are so trusting and defenseless against them.

We move our families to SSPX parishes so they will have good influences, good schools, good friends, and some idea of what a Catholic society is like. It's so important. But, how do we not shelter them so much that they cannot spot the errors anymore? Even if they are strong in their Faith, if they are too innocent then they will fall for anything as long as it is cloaked in persuasive Catholic language. Society was Catholic at one time, right? Yet it still fell. I think we underestimate how attractively wrapped these errors are when fed to Catholics. And we underestimate the power of the slow boil. We're too quick to dismiss the little things. "He that is faithful in that which is least, is faithful also in that which is greater:"

So it seems like cradle trads really do need a little inoculation through the years. Before they leave the house and fall in head first on their own. They don't need worldly inoculation but some small exposure to the philosophies and the errors so they can recognize them when they see them, no matter where they show up, even if it's from an SSPX priest.

I see the problem but I don't know what to so about it, practically speaking. Do you bring older kids to a NO mass once in a while and have discussions afterwards? Do you listen to NO sermons together and point out error and/or ambiguity? How do you get them to see it with their own physical and metaphorical eyes without tainting them or weakening their Faith? It's definitely a difficult exercise in the virtue of hope.

nctradcath · « **Reply #10 on:** July 01, 2016, 08:27:28 PM »

I think actually bringing them to a novus ordo would probably be a grave sin even if done for study? I am not sure how someone would handle this besides video comparison discussions?

StarOfTheNorth · « **Reply #11 on:** July 01, 2016, 09:15:40 PM »

One does not have to be exposed to evil to know it is evil! You do not have to go watch a bank robbery and subsequent trial and punishment to know it is wrong!
We need to read Pope St. Pius X encyclical on Modernism and study it to have a basic knowledge of the evils of the modern errors. As a cradle Trad, I did not have to attend a NO to be informed of it bitter fruits! Unfortunately those who seem to have slid toward modernism, may have not had a solid upbringing in the basics as well as the history of the troubled times in which we live. ( speaking about those in our families or friends NOT about any priests) As I still have a lot to learn in this vale of tears, I beg the Blessed Virgin Mary the grace to always see the errors and act in accordance to the will of God.

ihsv · « **Reply #12 on:** July 01, 2016, 09:55:39 PM »

I agree. One does not have to be exposed to evil to know it's evil. But if the evil is disguised and presented as something it's not, one may easily be deceived. And deception is the devil's trademark, isn't it? The mask must be torn off, which is why it is essential for all of us to know what we're dealing with in the form of the new religion.

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succuмb in every battle.”

? Sun Tzu, The Art of War

I would never bring my children to the Novus Ordo. Youtube is quite sufficient.

stgobnait · « **Reply #13 on:** July 02, 2016, 02:06:59 AM »

In my experience most NO catholics who knew the true Mass, but 'adapted' to the 'new' and brought their children to it, the majority of those children fall away, and have no interest in finding Tradition, if they even know its there, then their children are brought nowhere... and so it goes...

TKGS · « **Reply #14 on:** July 02, 2016, 06:44:00 AM »

Quote from: stgobnait

In my experience most NO catholics who knew the true Mass, but 'adapted' to the 'new' and brought their children to it, the majority of those children fall away, and have no interest in finding Tradition, if they even know its there, then their children are brought nowhere... and so it goes...

I agree. My parents were both converts in the 1940s-1950s. They accepted "the Changes" out of obedience. They brought all of their children with them. My eldest sister was old enough to see what was going on and just quit the Church (she later returned to tradition about 40 years later). As the youngest, I never liked the Novus Ordo and, when I started really learning the faith while homeschooling my children, found tradition. The middle children have absolutely no interest in tradition and are now a mix of Protestants, Novus Ordo Catholics, and non-religious people.

I would never take a child to the Novus Ordo, but the problems of the Novus Ordo, the history of the Crisis, and the history of the "traditional revolt" (put in quotes because it was really the Novus Ordo that is revolutionary) must be a topic of ordinary discussion in the household so that the children will know why we are traditional Catholics.