Author Topic: Pray Pay and Obey - Did you get same sermon this Sunday? (Read 17332 times)

Clint · « **on:** June 11, 2012, 08:39:04 AM »

Here is the bottom line of yesterday's sermon, Sunday June 10, 2012, in Sanford, Florida:

We must obey authority.
If we don't obey we are disobedient, and will be in schism
We must obey the authority, which is only the Superior General
The three other bishops have no authority, they have the same authority as any common priest in the SSPX
Abp. Lefevbre separated from Rome because Rome would not accept the SSPX.
Now if Rome accepts us, we must obey the Superior General and return.

END.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
This sermon is exactly what any Novus Ordo priest or Bishop would have delivered in 1988 when the Abp. was excomminicated. Here it is again, but as it would have been said by any Novus Ordo clergy in 1988, with the Pope replacing Bishop Fellay, and Abp. Lefevbre replacing the 3 bishops:

We must obey authority.
If we don't obey we are disobedient, and will be in schism
We must obey the authority, which is only the Pope
Abp. Lefevbre has no authority, he has the same authority as any common priest
-----------------------------------------------------------

Additional comment:

Abp. Lefevbre DID NOT "separate from Rome because Rome would not accept the SSPX". He separated from Rome because hierarchy in Rome separated from the faith. The same hierarchy remains in Rome, NOTHING HAS CHANGED!

AJNC · « **Reply #1 on:** June 11, 2012, 09:53:52 AM »

Quote from: Clint

Here is the bottom line of yesterday's sermon, Sunday June 10, 2012, in Sanford, Florida:

We must obey authority.
If we don't obey we are disobedient, and will be in schism
.......
.......
Abp. Lefevbre separated from Rome because Rome would not accept the SSPX.
.......

This is Fr Vernoy? Does he know what he is saying? Who does he think was the authority in those days that had to be obeyed, Archbishop Lefebvre or Rome?

All this "authority" and "obedience" talk just to get the "Yes" vote!

LordPhan · « **Reply #2 on:** June 11, 2012, 09:59:11 AM »

http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Obedience

John Grace · « **Reply #3 on:** June 11, 2012, 10:04:19 AM »

Quote

We must obey the authority, which is only the Superior General

LordPhan · « **Reply #4 on:** June 11, 2012, 10:07:21 AM »

I laughed at this too, especially since this is a schismatic statement if they are suggesting that Menzingen has authority over the laity. He is imposing Jurisdiction which he does not have, supplied jurisdiction does not extend higher then an individual Priest in an individual circuмstance.

John Grace · « **Reply #5 on:** June 11, 2012, 10:07:30 AM »

Quote from: Clint

Here is the bottom line of yesterday's sermon, Sunday June 10, 2012, in Sanford, Florida:

We must obey authority.
If we don't obey we are disobedient, and will be in schism
We must obey the authority, which is only the Superior General
The three other bishops have no authority, they have the same authority as any common priest in the SSPX
Abp. Lefevbre separated from Rome because Rome would not accept the SSPX.
Now if Rome accepts us, we must obey the Superior General and return.

END.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
This sermon is exactly what any Novus Ordo priest or Bishop would have delivered in 1988 when the Abp. was excomminicated. Here it is again, but as it would have been said by any Novus Ordo clergy in 1988, with the Pope replacing Bishop Fellay, and Abp. Lefevbre replacing the 3 bishops:

We must obey authority.
If we don't obey we are disobedient, and will be in schism
We must obey the authority, which is only the Pope
Abp. Lefevbre has no authority, he has the same authority as any common priest
-----------------------------------------------------------

Additional comment:

Abp. Lefevbre DID NOT "separate from Rome because Rome would not accept the SSPX". He separated from Rome because hierarchy in Rome separated from the faith. The same hierarchy remains in Rome, NOTHING HAS CHANGED!

Perhaps this should be in a more light hearted section of the forum.

John Grace · « **Reply #6 on:** June 11, 2012, 10:11:06 AM »

Quote from: AJNC

Quote from: Clint
Here is the bottom line of yesterday's sermon, Sunday June 10, 2012, in Sanford, Florida:

We must obey authority.
If we don't obey we are disobedient, and will be in schism
.......
.......
Abp. Lefevbre separated from Rome because Rome would not accept the SSPX.
.......

This is Fr Vernoy? Does he know what he is saying? Who does he think was the authority in those days that had to be obeyed, Archbishop Lefebvre or Rome?

All this "authority" and "obedience" talk just to get the "Yes" vote!

Maybe it was tongue in cheek?

LordPhan · « **Reply #7 on:** June 11, 2012, 10:16:23 AM »

I was in the United States yesterday for Mass however luckily I attended Mass with Bishop Tissier de Mallerais so I did not get the above posted sermon. The sermon I heard was for the confirmations(I was conditionally confirmed yesterday). The sermon was about being a soldier of Christ no matter what is going to happen to you. A story was told about a young Marcel Lefebvre in france occupied by german soldiers in WWI. There was a curfew until 6am and you Lefebvre would go out anyway to serve at mass. One day some soldiers saw him and chased him home. They asked him why he was out before 6am. He said that he was going to serve Mass. One of the soldiers said he was Catholic so he'd let him off this one time but not to do it again. The Priest came by later and asked young Lefebvre why he did not serve Mass. He told Father and Father said. "Just take a different road."

RomanKansan · « **Reply #8 on:** June 11, 2012, 12:28:35 PM »

While I am extremely grateful for all Bishop deMallerais has done for the Church over the years and thank him and God for his sermon at the confirmations at St Nicholas duChardonnet recently…it is extremely disheartening to hear that he did not directly preach against the deal and the new position of the Society (see no evil in Rome, hear no evil from Rome, denounce no Modernism in Rome).

Let me state right away, very explicitly, this is in no way to judge Bishop deMallerais’ action or even criticize it. He is obviously a very intelligent, prudent (virtuously prudent, not Bishop Fellay worldly prudent), prayerful man. I would never venture to second guess why he decided not to speak directly. But just as a matter of objective fact it seems there is little hope (no hope?) for the laity alone to stop the iron fist of Menzingen if the three bishops do not speak explicitly, forcefully against the specific problems in the already changed society, as the good Bishop did in Paris.

Already Menzingen is maliciously telling people to ignore the good Bishops (good shepherds) of the Society. If they go quiet it will be the final nail in the resistance’s coffin as Menzingen trumpets how we should all follow their example and be silent.

Again, this is not a criticism of Bishop deMallerais, while I do not trust Bishop Fellay’s judgment (or rather, I trust that it is presently operating badly), I do trust that Bishop deMallerais carefully, prayerfully considered his words yesterday. But whatever factors let him not to speak as he did in Paris; it bodes very ill for the resistance.

Please, LordPhan, give me hope we are not doomed. (Not said sarcastically or tongue in cheek, any encouragement you can give would be greatly appreciated)

John Grace · « **Reply #9 on:** June 11, 2012, 12:43:12 PM »

Quote from: RomanKansan

While I am extremely grateful for all Bishop deMallerais has done for the Church over the years and thank him and God for his sermon at the confirmations at St Nicholas duChardonnet recently…it is extremely disheartening to hear that he did not directly preach against the deal and the new position of the Society (see no evil in Rome, hear no evil from Rome, denounce no Modernism in Rome).

Let me state right away, very explicitly, this is in no way to judge Bishop deMallerais’ action or even criticize it. He is obviously a very intelligent, prudent (virtuously prudent, not Bishop Fellay worldly prudent), prayerful man. I would never venture to second guess why he decided not to speak directly. But just as a matter of objective fact it seems there is little hope (no hope?) for the laity alone to stop the iron fist of Menzingen if the three bishops do not speak explicitly, forcefully against the specific problems in the already changed society, as the good Bishop did in Paris.

Already Menzingen is maliciously telling people to ignore the good Bishops (good shepherds) of the Society. If they go quiet it will be the final nail in the resistance’s coffin as Menzingen trumpets how we should all follow their example and be silent.

Again, this is not a criticism of Bishop deMallerais, while I do not trust Bishop Fellay’s judgment (or rather, I trust that it is presently operating badly), I do trust that Bishop deMallerais carefully, prayerfully considered his words yesterday. But whatever factors let him not to speak as he did in Paris; it bodes very ill for the resistance.

Please, LordPhan, give me hope we are not doomed. (Not said sarcastically or tongue in cheek, any encouragement you can give would be greatly appreciated)

I don't believe it is all doom and gloom. A letter from three of the Bishops is now in the public domain. How can they change their mind? My four year old niece visited me earlier. I asked her what is 2+2 =. She answered 4. I then asked her is 2+2 = 5. She stated clearly. 2+2= 4.

I remain confident in Bishop Tissier.

Malleus 01 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 11, 2012, 01:38:04 PM »

Quote from: Clint

Here is the bottom line of yesterday's sermon, Sunday June 10, 2012, in Sanford, Florida:

We must obey authority.
If we don't obey we are disobedient, and will be in schism
We must obey the authority, which is only the Superior General
The three other bishops have no authority, they have the same authority as any common priest in the SSPX
Abp. Lefevbre separated from Rome because Rome would not accept the SSPX.
Now if Rome accepts us, we must obey the Superior General and return.

END.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
This sermon is exactly what any Novus Ordo priest or Bishop would have delivered in 1988 when the Abp. was excomminicated. Here it is again, but as it would have been said by any Novus Ordo clergy in 1988, with the Pope replacing Bishop Fellay, and Abp. Lefevbre replacing the 3 bishops:

We must obey authority.
If we don't obey we are disobedient, and will be in schism
We must obey the authority, which is only the Pope
Abp. Lefevbre has no authority, he has the same authority as any common priest
-----------------------------------------------------------

Additional comment:

Abp. Lefevbre DID NOT "separate from Rome because Rome would not accept the SSPX". He separated from Rome because hierarchy in Rome separated from the faith. The same hierarchy remains in Rome, NOTHING HAS CHANGED!

Obedience is to GOD. Prayer is to GOD. Alms are to GOD.

Therefore so long as our Clergy is Of GOD and Not of Man - we owe them our Obedience - take one step away from GOD and with it goes the reason for obedience - which of course , is why we are not Novus ordo.

Ethelred · « **Reply #11 on:** June 11, 2012, 01:43:47 PM »

Quote from: John Grace

I don't believe it is all doom and gloom.

We continue to fight, of course, but let's face it: It doesn't look rosy at all.

Quote

A letter from three of the Bishops is now in the public domain. How can they change their mind?

The pressure is very high. And let's not forget that the devil is behind the sellout to Newrome. He got his very own repertoire of tricks.

Quote

I remain confident in Bishop Tissier.

The point is, the two or three bishops who will remain firm, have no practical say in the society.

The younger priests have systematically been alienated to Bishop Williamson by the leadership, and this bishop is the heart of the resistance.
The 2009 Sweden interview and the Krahgate underlined how the absolute majority of priests just fell over when there was opposing wind. And now the wind is stronger.
So, I believe Menzingen has the green light, and they know their subordinates are mostly yes-men (can't decide if 80% or 90% of them).

There's only a future for the SSPX, when Menzingen's entire staff is thrown out!
But who could do this?

So, short of a miracle, the situation of the SSPX is terrible.

Back on topic: I got the "Bp.Fellay's recent DICI interview"-lecture-sermon on Sunday. Luckily I had read it before and in particular John Lane's analysis of it.

Wessex · « **Reply #12 on:** June 11, 2012, 02:11:28 PM »

Judging from how Menzingen is prepared for its move into the conciliar camp (something it accused Campos and Stronsay of doing), I suspect it will now accept any conditions to become 'regularised'. Rome will certainly pile on the pressure knowing how eager the Society is to submit.

AntiFellayism · « **Reply #13 on:** June 11, 2012, 03:37:53 PM »

Quote from: Clint

Here is the bottom line of yesterday's sermon, Sunday June 10, 2012, in Sanford, Florida:

We must obey authority.
If we don't obey we are disobedient, and will be in schism
We must obey the authority, which is only the Superior General
The three other bishops have no authority, they have the same authority as any common priest in the SSPX
Abp. Lefevbre separated from Rome because Rome would not accept the SSPX.
Now if Rome accepts us, we must obey the Superior General and return.

END.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
This sermon is exactly what any Novus Ordo priest or Bishop would have delivered in 1988 when the Abp. was excomminicated. Here it is again, but as it would have been said by any Novus Ordo clergy in 1988, with the Pope replacing Bishop Fellay, and Abp. Lefevbre replacing the 3 bishops:

We must obey authority.
If we don't obey we are disobedient, and will be in schism
We must obey the authority, which is only the Pope
Abp. Lefevbre has no authority, he has the same authority as any common priest
-----------------------------------------------------------

Additional comment:

Abp. Lefevbre DID NOT "separate from Rome because Rome would not accept the SSPX". He separated from Rome because hierarchy in Rome separated from the faith. The same hierarchy remains in Rome, NOTHING HAS CHANGED!

Addition on the additional comment:

You forgot to mention that the Sunday before (Trinity) this chapel had even an EXORCISM prayer performed by Fr. Vernoy during the sermon in order to protect the faithful from the wolves...

Even though he failed to mention who the wolves were (making use of the lack of clarity of neo-sspx) I think at this point we can read between the lines, can't we??

Clint · « **Reply #14 on:** June 11, 2012, 03:53:26 PM »

Quote from: LordPhan

I laughed at this too, especially since this is a schismatic statement if they are suggesting that Menzingen has authority over the laity. He is imposing Jurisdiction which he does not have, supplied jurisdiction does not extend higher then an individual Priest in an individual circuмstance.

Very good observation. This is why it's good to get others involved in thought.