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Author Topic: Archbishop Vigano to Traditional Catholics Stay and Fight:  (Read 1352 times)

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Offline trad123

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Re: Archbishop Vigano to Traditional Catholics Stay and Fight:
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2020, 10:33:51 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on September 17, 2020, 03:30:55 PM
    Why are you trying to get Catholics to support the conciliar church?


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    Now, how is this like Vigano saying stay and fight. I say Bologna!  Who would in their right mind listen to stay in the New Order councilor church?  Our Lady said Rome would lose it's faith. Well, that is a done deal.  Who would follow the New Order who stands by the Heretical Mess, and tells you to stay and fight for it?!
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    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano to Traditional Catholics Stay and Fight:
    « Reply #16 on: September 17, 2020, 10:39:38 PM »
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    • Yes, I do not understand why Songbird loves the Novus Ordo, and wants to lead people into conciliarism.  Very confusing.  Must be Opus Dei.
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline trad123

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano to Traditional Catholics Stay and Fight:
    « Reply #17 on: September 17, 2020, 10:47:37 PM »
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    • Sean, I'm even more confused now by your response.

    Those are songbirds own words. If anything, she's leaning towards sede vacante.


    From 2016:

    https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/sedevacantism-101/msg517551/#msg517551



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    We know for sure that those who excommunicate themselves are not to be followed, or we too shall excommunicate ourselves.

    All those who do the the New Order, follow the new order are excommunicated.  You will know them by their fruits.

    Now, if the clergy are excommunicated, by their own desires, they are not followers of Christ.  Very simple.

    They say an adulterated mess, no Precious Blood!  I can't think of anything so rotten as that!

    Some may call it sedevacantism but excommunication is where "they" are.  You can not follow them or excommunicate yourself.

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    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano to Traditional Catholics Stay and Fight:
    « Reply #18 on: September 17, 2020, 10:54:54 PM »
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    • Quote from: trad123 on September 17, 2020, 10:47:37 PM
    Sean, I'm even more confused now by your response.

    Those are songbirds own words. If anything, she's leaning towards sede vacante.


    From 2016:

    https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/sedevacantism-101/msg517551/#msg517551
    Yes, Songbird is very confusing.  Definitely don't understand why she thinks we all need to rush into the conciliar church.  I wouldn't trust her.  
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline claudel

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano to Traditional Catholics Stay and Fight:
    « Reply #19 on: September 17, 2020, 11:55:48 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on September 17, 2020, 10:54:54 PM

    Songbird is very confusing. … I wouldn't trust her.  

    I hear you. Among other things, no one who confuses "baloney" (= foolishness, nonsense) with Italy's ancient university city is to be trusted!
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    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano to Traditional Catholics Stay and Fight:
    « Reply #20 on: September 18, 2020, 04:35:36 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on September 17, 2020, 03:30:55 PM
    Why are you trying to get Catholics to support the conciliar church?
    She's not. She's suggesting Vigano's call to "stay in the Church" is a call to reconcile with the Conciliar Church, and one that will lead to Trads being betrayed by the Conciliar Church in the same way the Brits betrayed the Acadians. She might be wrong in her interpretation of Vigano's message, but it's literally the opposite of supporting the Conciliar Church. 
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano to Traditional Catholics Stay and Fight:
    « Reply #21 on: September 18, 2020, 06:26:04 AM »
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    • Quote from: forlorn on September 18, 2020, 04:35:36 AM
    She's not. She's suggesting Vigano's call to "stay in the Church" is a call to reconcile with the Conciliar Church, and one that will lead to Trads being betrayed by the Conciliar Church in the same way the Brits betrayed the Acadians. She might be wrong in her interpretation of Vigano's message, but it's literally the opposite of supporting the Conciliar Church.
    Hmm.  This is very confusing.  I think Songbird must be controlled by Opus Dei Jєωs.  Yes, that’s clear enough.  Hopefully she can clear up all her confusing contradictions.  I just don’t understand why she loves Vatican II so much.  Why does she want us to become conciliarists and accept the new theology?  Very confusing.
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano to Traditional Catholics Stay and Fight:
    « Reply #22 on: September 18, 2020, 07:59:18 AM »
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    • OK, I’m done trolling Songbird now.

    Just wanted to give her a taste of her own medicine by attributing positions to her she clearly doesn’t hold (ie., just as she is doing to Vigano).

    It seems there is a certain strain of sede that doesn’t want to understand the eminently clear and straightforward R&R position of Vigano, and desires to sow confusion where perfect clarity exists (at least for those not poisoned by sede ecclesiology).

    I am content now to let that strain continue confusing each other, acting as if they had just heard the Chewbacca defense, but note the new tactic:

    If Vigano is not sede, he is a priori confusing, contradictory, and conciliarist.

    Puhlease.

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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline claudel

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano to Traditional Catholics Stay and Fight:
    « Reply #23 on: September 18, 2020, 03:52:12 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on September 18, 2020, 07:59:18 AM

    It seems there is a certain strain of sede that doesn’t want to understand the eminently clear and straightforward R&R position of Viganò, and desires to sow confusion where perfect clarity exists (at least for those not poisoned by sede ecclesiology).

    A year ago I might have said that you were overstating the case here, but now I'm afraid I agree. The sede faction on this site used to complain bitterly of the intolerance of those holding the R&R position,* but having now gained a strong footing themselves, they are disinclined to extend respect or even courtesy to those they disagree with.
    _____________________________
    *It shouldn't be forgotten that "recognize and resist" is in its origins a sneer term coined by sedevacantists in mockery of the entirely reasonable conclusion that the problem of evil—specifically, evil in ordained and consecrated clergy and prelates—cannot be solved by laymen who simply and uncanonically accord themselves the authority to declare the pope and the bishops no longer legitimate holders of their seats. Because the term accurately describes what Fr. Gommar DePauw, Archbishop Lefebvre, and thousands upon thousands of other Traditional Catholics believed and acted upon, the sneer has been turned on its head and is now worn as a badge of honor.
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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano to Traditional Catholics Stay and Fight:
    « Reply #24 on: September 18, 2020, 05:54:43 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on September 18, 2020, 07:59:18 AM
    OK, I’m done trolling Songbird now.

    Just wanted to give her a taste of her own medicine by attributing positions to her she clearly doesn’t hold (ie., just as she is doing to Vigano).

    It seems there is a certain strain of sede that doesn’t want to understand the eminently clear and straightforward R&R position of Vigano, and desires to sow confusion where perfect clarity exists (at least for those not poisoned by sede ecclesiology).

    I am content now to let that strain continue confusing each other, acting as if they had just heard the Chewbacca defense, but note the new tactic:

    If Vigano is not sede, he is a priori confusing, contradictory, and conciliarist.

    Puhlease.


    Now I get it!
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    Offline songbird

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano to Traditional Catholics Stay and Fight:
    « Reply #25 on: September 18, 2020, 09:20:44 PM »
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    • Forlorn has me understood.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Archbishop Vigano to Traditional Catholics Stay and Fight:
    « Reply #26 on: September 19, 2020, 06:46:00 AM »
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    • Quote from: claudel on September 18, 2020, 03:52:12 PM
    A year ago I might have said that you were overstating the case here, but now I'm afraid I agree. The sede faction on this site used to complain bitterly of the intolerance of those holding the R&R position,* but having now gained a strong footing themselves, they are disinclined to extend respect or even courtesy to those they disagree with.
    _____________________________
    *It shouldn't be forgotten that "recognize and resist" is in its origins a sneer term coined by sedevacantists in mockery of the entirely reasonable conclusion that the problem of evil—specifically, evil in ordained and consecrated clergy and prelates—cannot be solved by laymen who simply and uncanonically accord themselves the authority to declare the pope and the bishops no longer legitimate holders of their seats. Because the term accurately describes what Fr. Gommar DePauw, Archbishop Lefebvre, and thousands upon thousands of other Traditional Catholics believed and acted upon, the sneer has been turned on its head and is now worn as a badge of honor.

    Exactly. 

    They were allowed to gain a strong footing, IMO.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29
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