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Poll

The public sin of manifest formal heresy by its very nature separates the heretic from the Church.

Affirm
Deny
Doubt (meaning I don't think so)
Unsure
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Author Topic: Poll for Those Who Consider Themselves Part of the Resistance  (Read 24036 times)

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Offline Catholic Knight

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Re: Poll for Those Who Consider Themselves Part of the Resistance
« Reply #210 on: Today at 10:07:22 AM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on Today at 09:56:54 AM
    Meanwhile Catholic Knight knows better than Suarez.

    Pope Pius XII knows better than Suarez.
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Poll for Those Who Consider Themselves Part of the Resistance
    « Reply #211 on: Today at 10:29:22 AM »
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    • Quote from: Catholic Knight on Today at 10:07:22 AM
    Pope Pius XII knows better than Suarez.
    Agreed.
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Catholic Knight

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    Re: Poll for Those Who Consider Themselves Part of the Resistance
    « Reply #212 on: Today at 11:41:01 AM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on Today at 10:29:22 AM
    Agreed.

    But Pope Stubborn knows better than Pope Pius XII.
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Poll for Those Who Consider Themselves Part of the Resistance
    « Reply #213 on: Today at 12:50:10 PM »
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    • Quote from: Catholic Knight on Today at 11:41:01 AM
    But Pope Stubborn knows better than Pope Pius XII.
    Pope Catholic Knight knows less than Pope Pius XII.
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline WorldsAway

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    Re: Poll for Those Who Consider Themselves Part of the Resistance
    « Reply #214 on: Today at 01:04:43 PM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on Today at 12:50:10 PM
    Pope Catholic Knight knows less than Pope Pius XII.
    Stubborn, are we to take these words to mean exactly what they say?

    Quote
    Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed

    Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis 

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    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Poll for Those Who Consider Themselves Part of the Resistance
    « Reply #215 on: Today at 01:29:02 PM »
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    • Quote from: WorldsAway on Today at 01:04:43 PM
    Stubborn, are we to take these words to mean exactly what they say?
    I do. I also understand Suarez's position and agree with Suarez's  "Once a Catholic always a Catholic." IOW, as he said in your quote, mortal sinners separate themselves from the unity of the Body. The Church is not the one who does the separating. 



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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline WorldsAway

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    Re: Poll for Those Who Consider Themselves Part of the Resistance
    « Reply #216 on: Today at 01:39:06 PM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on Today at 01:29:02 PM
    I do. I also understand Suarez's position and agree with Suarez's  "Once a Catholic always a Catholic." IOW, as he said in your quote, mortal sinners separate themselves from the unity of the Body. The Church is not the one who does the separating.
    So you agree that someone who doesn't profess the true faith is not a member of the Church?
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    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Poll for Those Who Consider Themselves Part of the Resistance
    « Reply #217 on: Today at 03:14:01 PM »
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    • Quote from: WorldsAway on Today at 01:39:06 PM
    So you agree that someone who doesn't profess the true faith is not a member of the Church?
    If that person was never Catholic, I agree. If that person professed the true faith then committed the sin of heresy, that person is a Catholic with the sin of heresy on his soul. Should he decide to repent, he can go to confession and be absolved, something only members can do. The nature of the sin makes this unlikely.

    One must accept that heresy is a sin, the worst of all the sins, but that is what heresy is, a sin, one that Catholics can always be absolved of in confession. 
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline WorldsAway

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    Re: Poll for Those Who Consider Themselves Part of the Resistance
    « Reply #218 on: Today at 03:34:04 PM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on Today at 03:14:01 PM
    If that person was never Catholic, I agree. If that person professed the true faith then committed the sin of heresy, that person is a Catholic with the sin of heresy on his soul. Should he decide to repent, he can go to confession and be absolved, something only members can do. The nature of the sin makes this unlikely.

    One must accept that heresy is a sin, the worst of all the sins, but that is what heresy is, a sin, one that Catholics can always be absolved of in confession.
    OK, regardless of whether you hold any particular heretic to be Catholic or not, Pope Pius XII teaches that membership in the Church is limited only those who:

    1) Are baptized

    And

    2) Profess the true Faith

    And

    3) Have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body

    Or

    4) Have not been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed


    So, if any one of the four things is lacking a person is not a member of the Church.

    Do you agree with this?
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    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
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