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Poll

The public sin of manifest formal heresy by its very nature separates the heretic from the Church.

Affirm
Deny
Doubt (meaning I don't think so)
Unsure
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Author Topic: Poll for Those Who Consider Themselves Part of the Resistance  (Read 18119 times)

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Online Pax Vobis

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Re: Poll for Those Who Consider Themselves Part of the Resistance
« Reply #180 on: Today at 12:03:06 PM »
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    • Quote from: SimonJude on Today at 11:13:54 AM
    You are so confused....

    Separating a family member from the family to avoid the family member from possibly spiritually  infecting other family members does not make that family member not a family member.

    Once a family member, always a family member.

    Similarly, once baptised, always a Catholic.  He may become a non-practicing Catholic, a heretic Catholic, or a schismatic Catholic, but he is still a Catholic.

    I encourage you to go back to basic Catechism.  Our Lord purposely did not make His Church complicated.  He wants everyone saved.
    It all depends on how you define member, moron.

    I (and +Bellarmine and others) define it as:  baptized + holds the faith.

    If you want to simply define a member as "baptized" then by all means, go ahead.  Just realize that's a very BROAD definition, with no distinctions.

    According to your definition then, there are 2 possible categories:
    a.  Member, union with the Church (i.e. holds the faith)
    b.  Member, not in union (rejects the faith)

    Category "b" is what Leo XII is referring to.  That's what this WHOLE THREAD IS REFERRING TO.  :facepalm:  Members who are not in union with the Church (i.e. heretics).  

    Why don't you try to understand what other people are saying, before just arguing endlessly?
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    Offline SimonJude

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    Re: Poll for Those Who Consider Themselves Part of the Resistance
    « Reply #181 on: Today at 12:52:08 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on Today at 12:03:06 PM
    It all depends on how you define member, moron.

    I (and +Bellarmine and others) define it as:  baptized + holds the faith.

    If you want to simply define a member as "baptized" then by all means, go ahead.  Just realize that's a very BROAD definition, with no distinctions.

    According to your definition then, there are 2 possible categories:
    a.  Member, union with the Church (i.e. holds the faith)
    b.  Member, not in union (rejects the faith)

    Category "b" is what Leo XII is referring to.  That's what this WHOLE THREAD IS REFERRING TO.  :facepalm:  Members who are not in union with the Church (i.e. heretics). 

    Why don't you try to understand what other people are saying, before just arguing endlessly?
    Sticks and stone may break my bones, but words will never hurt me....  :laugh1:

    I read the entire thread.

    The Church has defined "member" to be a baptised Catholic.  Period.  Opinions don't matter.

    If you want to discuss a member (baptised Catholic) who is "not in union with the Catholic Faith", then YOU need to specify such. 

    You can't just say a heretic is not a member of the Church because, according to the Church, a heretic may or may not be a member of the Church.
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    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Poll for Those Who Consider Themselves Part of the Resistance
    « Reply #182 on: Today at 02:06:33 PM »
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    • Quote from: SimonJude on Today at 12:52:08 PM
    The Church has defined "member" to be a baptised Catholic.  Period.  Opinions don't matter.
    False.  The Church says baptism BEGINS one's membership.  

    Multiple popes have further broken this down into being 'one of the faithful' and those who are not 'faithful' (i.e. not in union with the Church).


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    I read the entire thread.
    No you didn't.  I made this distinction between membership and 'being one of the faithful' multiple times.

    p.s.  This distinction is only meant to serve the point of the conversation.  +Bellarmine rejects the distinction and says that heretics aren't members.  So go tell +Bellarmine he's wrong.
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Poll for Those Who Consider Themselves Part of the Resistance
    « Reply #183 on: Today at 02:07:06 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on Today at 11:04:06 AM
    1) Many excommunications are "ipso facto", if you know what that means.
    2) I've never denied that a formal process is necessary.
    3) I've mentioned about 8,000x that we are talking about MARTIN LUTHER, but you refuse to stick on this example.  He had a formal process; something I don't deny.  :facepalm:
    1) Ipso facto for Luther (and everyone else) STILL requires the Church to officially impose the censure on him, just as they (wrongfully) did with Fr. Feeney. Nothing in Fr. Feeney's decree about him being outside of the Church either.  
    2) You simply ignore it, always implying that we or anyone can definitively decide on the matter.
    3) So where in the official decree of excommunication of Luther, Decet Romanum Pontificem, does it say anything about him no longer being a member, being expelled from the Church, or simply is now outside of the Church? Do you suppose they forgot that part, or did they leave it out on purpose? 
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse
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