Author Topic: where is truth? (Read 1639 times)

For Greater Glory · « **on:** June 02, 2013, 10:59:22 PM »

Hi everyone,
Well, went back to the SSPX chapel today. Talked with the priest about the SSPX - Rome issue. He said that Bishop Williamson and the two priests (why only two priests, I don't know - because there were more who were expelled or just left of their own accord) were not obedient ( they are a priestly society and must be obedient to the superiors) and that there were other matters that were not made public. Bishop Fellay tried to work with Bishop Williamson, asked him to close EC because he was broadcasting things through there.
I asked about the April 15th preamble. He said that was just a preliminary statement and Bishop Fellay worded things in such a way for a reason. (I forgot what) It seemed that he was saying that we've taken things the wrong way. Personally, I think a Catholic Bishop should state things in a Catholic way.
He said to stay away from the internet, because as we all know- it's just a bunch of rumors!!! Now, where have we heard that before?
One of the last things he talked about was if the SSPX does sign an agreement one day, then he would have to read it and maybe say, no. Until then stay the course.
I don't know, but I left feeling a little discouraged. Don't feel right at the chapel. Very hard to get to the two independent priests fifty and seventy miles away early Sunday mornings. Don't really like staying home, reading Mass prayers and saying rosaries. Don't have a resistance priest around. What's a body to do??? I guess the Man upstairs would say: Persevere, my child.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #1 on:** June 02, 2013, 11:03:04 PM »

What would happen to that priest if he didn't stick to the ridiculous talking points?

It's very telling that the party line is binding. Support for Bishop Fellay is not because he stands for Catholic Tradition but because he stands for the umbrella of the SSPX and belonging to the SSPX depends on repeating the party line.

Nickolas · « **Reply #2 on:** June 02, 2013, 11:32:58 PM »

What can you do, For Greater Glory? Yes, persevere as you have said, but I would pray for that priest and for the laity who listen to him. Can't give up on them. So many words have been written about this situation, but then that is part of the planned course of the enemy also. Wear people down, wear down their resistance, make them believe that in fact, all is ok.

Can you imagine the planned course of the SSPX and their priests? Oh yes, the doctrinal declaration was worded in a deceitful way, but it was for a good reason says the good Bishop Fellay. It is ok to lie and then say it was for a good reason, ok really. Before long, people don't know what a lie is, because the to the subjectivist mindset, there are no lies, only truth for me and truth for you, and we are both right.

I absolutely hated philosophy in college and this type of twisted thinking makes me want to vomit. It is evil and couched in confusion, manipulation of thought, and deceit. An organization whose leadership promotes it is being influenced by the devil himself.

Once a deal is struck, how many priests, who have lived with the lies and deceit for a long time, will have the stomach to resist what the Bishops want them to do to go along? Not many.

Now that I have vented a little bit, I want to say to the SSPX leadership (and I believe their moles monitor this site and IA too for indictors as to how their info manipulation program is working) You may succeed in pulling the majority of the faithful along with you, but in reality, it is not the numbers that are important, it is the truth, the real truth, not the subjectivist version, but the truth that brings the victory. Our Lady and Blessed Lord know this and you will never do anything to fool them! Your tricks, money and donations, your influence are but as trash.

And this poor priest and many like him, he will be accountable for the spread of company line lies that he has promoted to the faithful. Despicable, really.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #3 on:** June 03, 2013, 12:08:52 AM »

Quote from: Nickolas

It is ok to lie and then say it was for a good reason, ok really. Before long, people don't know what a lie is

This is the real cultural problem that exists in the SSPX.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #4 on:** June 03, 2013, 12:26:50 PM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

What would happen to that priest if he didn't stick to the ridiculous talking points?

I would imagine he would have to start thinking on his own, and he might
then start facing some of the inherent contradictions he now ignores as
if it were honorable to do so under (false) 'obedience'.

Quote

It's very telling that the party line is binding. Support for Bishop Fellay is not because he stands for Catholic Tradition but because he stands for the umbrella of the SSPX and belonging to the SSPX depends on repeating the party line.

As Fr. Pfeiffer so well explains, you know it's doctrinal because it comes
with punishments, with reprimands, with sanctions, with threats -- it comes
with condemnation of the 'error' of opposing it.

The party line is binding, yes. Very well said, Tele.

How anyone can partake in this without being able to explain where this
was in the Society under Archbishop Lefebre, is also telling. They've
placed all their 'chips' on one square of the roulette table, the one that
has the label "OBEDIENCE."

And in the process, they forget what it means to be Catholic. Nor do they
recognize that they are losing their faith. This is the sinister power of
Modernism, the Grand Sewer of all heresies. It's a disease of the soul in
which one of the symptoms is, the victim doesn't know that he is infected.

Matto · « **Reply #5 on:** June 03, 2013, 12:34:50 PM »

I support the resistance, but have no resistance Mass to go to. So I go to my SSPX chapel because it is a true Mass with true priests and just don't give any more money into the collection so I don't support them.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #6 on:** June 03, 2013, 01:26:05 PM »

Quote from: For Greater Glory

Hi everyone,
Well, went back to the SSPX chapel today. Talked with the priest about the SSPX - Rome issue. He said that Bishop Williamson and the two priests (why only two priests, I don't know - because there were more who were expelled or just left of their own accord)..

Sharp eye. He would say "two priests" because he wants to buy into the
lie that it's a 'very very limited' problem -- like B.Fellay on 'very very limited
religious liberty'. It's the low-ball scheme of the con man. And B. Fellay is
just that: a con man. And he teaches his minions to become con men, too.

Quote

..were not obedient ( they are a priestly society and must be obedient to the superiors) and that there were other matters that were not made public.

Well, that's for sure. Like the AFD wasn't made public, remember? And
the alleged 'conversation' between B.Fellay and B.di Noia on August 28th,
2012 wasn't made public - that is, until B.Fellay was good and ready to
use it as an excuse - an excuse he can't prove unless B.di Noia decides
to back him up with an admission. But that's not likely to happen,
because it's not in B.di Noia's self-interest to back up B.Fellay's claim.

These things are not made public because the truth does not serve the
purpose of the Menzingen-denzens.

Quote

Bishop Fellay tried to work with Bishop Williamson, asked him to close EC because he was broadcasting things through there.

He was practicing being a bishop through there, something by which B.
Fellay could not abide, because B.Fellay is not practicing being a bishop
and he doesn't like to have the world notice what it looks like when a
bishop does what he should be doing.

Quote

I asked about the April 15th preamble. He said that was just a preliminary statement and Bishop Fellay worded things in such a way for a reason. (I forgot what)..

Thanks for mentioning this. I expect you forgot because what he said
made no sense. The minions of the denizens try to repeat the party
line which makes no sense and nonsense tends to get even more
mixed up when it is repeated, because it made no sense to start with,
so why would it matter if it's different -- it's still nonsense!

Quote

..It seemed that he was saying that we've taken things the wrong way. Personally, I think a Catholic Bishop should state things in a Catholic way.

What nerve you have, For Greater Glory! -Expecting B.Fellay to start
acting like +Williamson!

Note: right and wrong are subjective in the mind of the Menzingen-denizens.
E.g., you are taking things in the 'wrong way' if you take them in a way
that is not what the Menzingen-denizens demand of you -- don't forget:
they have no jurisdiction and so they have no power to demand your
obedience in any way, ESPECIALLY when they demand that you ignore
how unCatholic their statements are.

Quote

He said to stay away from the internet, because as we all know- it's just a bunch of rumors!!! Now, where have we heard that before?

Oh, right. That's the "Internet rumour" -- the rumor that anything you
learn on the Internet that the Menzingen-denizens don't want you to
learn is to be avoided. It's the Menzingen-denizen-Internet-rumour.

And they want you to avoid finding out the truth about them by your
false obedience to their so-called authority, when they have no jurisdiction
over you to make any demands of you.

This "luscious plumb" (B. Fellay's term) of having jurisdiction over the
Faithful is one of the things that drives the Menzingen-denizens to
distraction.

They don't have enough power -- and they want MORE!!

Quote

One of the last things he talked about was if the SSPX does sign an agreement one day, then he would have to read it and maybe say, no. Until then stay the course.

We would like to know what this priest had said about 19 years ago when
the first rumblings of this accordism started to erupt from the lips of the
new Superior-General, +Fellay. Did he say then that he would have to
read the agreement and "maybe say, no -- Until then stay the course?"

Or, (which is more likely) is this a new approach to the same old problem?
That is to say, is he keeping up with the times?

Quote

I don't know, but I left feeling a little discouraged. Don't feel right at the chapel. Very hard to get to the two independent priests fifty and seventy miles away early Sunday mornings. Don't really like staying home, reading Mass prayers and saying rosaries. Don't have a resistance priest around. What's a body to do??? I guess the Man upstairs would say: Persevere, my child.

Thank you for your story, For Greater Glory. We don't often think about
how fortunate we are unless we see what others are facing in these days
that try men's souls. One thought is, perhaps you can start by going once
a month or every other week? Maybe you can find a friend with whom
you can carpool? You could pray a Rosary together in the car on the way.
Your sharing of the Faith will help both of you.

Whatever your sacrifice is, God will be pleased. You could go back to your
local chapel once a month to see if anything is improving. Maybe it will,
after all.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #7 on:** June 03, 2013, 01:37:16 PM »

Quote from: Matto

I support the resistance, but have no resistance Mass to go to. So I go to my SSPX chapel because it is a true Mass with true priests and just don't give any more money into the collection so I don't support them.

I recommend using one of their collection envelopes to put a note
inside that explains your concerns, and put a nickle in there too,
saying "this is to pay for the envelope." I would tape the coin to
the note so it doesn't fall out or get separated. If they make some
joke from the pulpit about the envelopes costing less than a nickle,
then only put in a penny the next time, and explain that you didn't
want to overpay them, because it might upset the priest giving the
sermon. -And that you don't want them to be upset!

Keep your message down to a sound byte. Use bumper-sticker
slogans, so they'll have a hard time forgetting what you write there.
Maybe they'll start to think about it.

And then again, maybe not.

Incredulous · « **Reply #8 on:** June 03, 2013, 01:48:33 PM »

Quote from: Nickolas

What can you do, For Greater Glory? Yes, persevere as you have said, but I would pray for that priest and for the laity who listen to him. Can't give up on them. So many words have been written about this situation, but then that is part of the planned course of the enemy also. Wear people down, wear down their resistance, make them believe that in fact, all is ok.

Can you imagine the planned course of the SSPX and their priests? Oh yes, the doctrinal declaration was worded in a deceitful way, but it was for a good reason says the good Bishop Fellay. It is ok to lie and then say it was for a good reason, ok really. Before long, people don't know what a lie is, because the to the subjectivist mindset, there are no lies, only truth for me and truth for you, and we are both right.

I absolutely hated philosophy in college and this type of twisted thinking makes me want to vomit. It is evil and couched in confusion, manipulation of thought, and deceit. An organization whose leadership promotes it is being influenced by the devil himself.

Once a deal is struck, how many priests, who have lived with the lies and deceit for a long time, will have the stomach to resist what the Bishops want them to do to go along? Not many.

Now that I have vented a little bit, I want to say to the SSPX leadership (and I believe their moles monitor this site and IA too for indictors as to how their info manipulation program is working) You may succeed in pulling the majority of the faithful along with you, but in reality, it is not the numbers that are important, it is the truth, the real truth, not the subjectivist version, but the truth that brings the victory. Our Lady and Blessed Lord know this and you will never do anything to fool them! Your tricks, money and donations, your influence are but as trash.

And this poor priest and many like him, he will be accountable for the spread of company line lies that he has promoted to the faithful. Despicable, really.

Excellent post Nikolas!

Ecclesia Militans · « **Reply #9 on:** June 03, 2013, 04:13:02 PM »

Quote from: Matto

I support the resistance, but have no resistance Mass to go to. So I go to my SSPX chapel because it is a true Mass with true priests and just don't give any more money into the collection so I don't support them.

If you continue to attend your SSPX chapel, you undermine the cause of the Resistance.

For Greater Glory · « **Reply #10 on:** June 03, 2013, 07:18:54 PM »

Thank you, Neil. You always have a way of making someone feel better.

There has been something good in all this. My husband who stopped going to the chapel three or four years ago has gone with me to one chapel twice and the other chapel once. :smile: