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Author Topic: Please Pray for His Excellency Bishop Richard Williamson!  (Read 90738 times)

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Offline josefamenendez

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Re: Please Pray for His Excellency Bishop Richard Williamson!
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2025, 04:39:13 PM »
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  • ???
    Ok but Dr Byrne is a man. Since he is not an advocate of transplantation of major organs, the moment of death and when the soul leaves the body is of grave importance to him in that process.
    whatever

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Please Pray for His Excellency Bishop Richard Williamson!
    « Reply #16 on: January 25, 2025, 04:42:21 PM »
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  • From what Dr Byrne has told me re: Church teaching, it's that as long as one major organ is functioning ( it always comes down to the heart) that the person is still alive even if medically or mechanically they are being assisted with other functions.

    There's no actual Church teaching on the matter, just a lot of theological opinion.  I understand he's pushing back on the bogus "brain death" criterion, and is trying to prevent organ harvesting, and also attempting to use the benefit of the doubt to classify the removal of organs in such individuals as murder, since they often deliberately keep the other organs live precisely so they can harvest them.  But there's no clear teaching that the soul remains in the body if the bodily organs are simply being kept alive artificially.  I personally lean toward the fact that when the body has become so damaged that it can no longer sustain the soul by virtue of its own inherent "life force", as it were, no amount of mechanical devices circulating blood, pumping the heart, or pushing air into the lungs would cause the soul to remain within the body.  I distinguish between the body's own intrinsic life force vs. some external manipulation.  Now obviously, if ANY organs are functioning (with or without mechanical stimulation) the presumption must be that they're alive and that taking the organs is murder, since you really don't know.  In fact, it does happen where they take people off life support and then they don't actually die but continue living.  So that must be the legal and moral standard, the violation of which should be considered murder.  There is a certain amount of dispute so that the Church permits the administration of Last Rites (at least conditoinally) until rigor mortis sets in, with rogor mortis being the unequivocal sign of corruption, which happens as a result of the animal soul (life force) having left the body.  Yet it's not certain that the soul remains there until rigor mortis, just that it MIGHT, at least in some cases.  We know, obviously, that Our Lord suffered no such corruption despite His soul having left His body.


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Please Pray for His Excellency Bishop Richard Williamson!
    « Reply #17 on: January 25, 2025, 04:44:56 PM »
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  • ???
    Ok but Dr Byrne is a man. Since he is not an advocate of transplantation of major organs, the moment of death and when the soul leaves the body is of grave importance to him in that process.
    whatever

    Those are two separate issues that somehow you've conflated.  Dr. Byrne is speaking about the criterion for determining when death happens, with a view toward combatting the evils of organ harvesting.  That has nothing to do with when you might or should decide to pull an individual off life support.  I was referring to why these bishops would try to keep Bishop Williamson alive for "a few days" just so they could get there.  That's the actual language that was reported to me by someone in contact with one of the bishops.  That's a different question from discussing when death occurs.

    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: Please Pray for His Excellency Bishop Richard Williamson!
    « Reply #18 on: January 25, 2025, 04:52:49 PM »
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  • A misunderstanding here is that a dead person can be kept alive by machines.  They cannot. The lungs stiffen and will not inflate with a ventilator and a dead heart can't be paced. So there still needs to be some legitimate "life" intrinsic in the body to be able to be maintained by life support.  Just a clarification.
    Life support is not a mandate ( just a holdover) to interfere with the natural processes that are inevitable, so I agree in part with you


    Be that as it may, I share your concerns for unnecessary mechanically extended efforts

    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: Please Pray for His Excellency Bishop Richard Williamson!
    « Reply #19 on: January 25, 2025, 05:16:01 PM »
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  •   I was referring to why these bishops would try to keep Bishop Williamson alive for "a few days" just so they could get there.  That's the actual language that was reported to me by someone in contact with one of the bishops. 
    As josefamenendez stated, those machines are there only to support the life God has left him.

    To have several Bishops there praying and interceding for him right up to the moment he stands before the Just Judge would be a blessing any of us could only hope for. 
    The most we can hope for these days is that the priest sticks around after giving us Extreme Unction like in the old days.

    The only other person with better support at the time of death was St. Joseph.

    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]



    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Please Pray for His Excellency Bishop Richard Williamson!
    « Reply #20 on: January 25, 2025, 06:02:02 PM »
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  • So, we still don’t know for sure what is his status. No official announcement has been issued. 

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Please Pray for His Excellency Bishop Richard Williamson!
    « Reply #21 on: January 25, 2025, 06:25:09 PM »
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  • As josefamenendez stated, those machines are there only to support the life God has left him.

    That's my point ... I'm not buying that.  You can physically simulate the biological functions, but at some point the intrinsic life force has left the body.  There's a distinction between the two.  You and josefa can "state" whatever you'd like, and just because the term is called "support" doesn't make it true.

    I can't recall where I've read it that they've cloned animals and possibly have even tried it with human (somewhere in China), where the cloned human do not have brains but their biological functions are artificially kept going, and the intention is for organ harvesting.  Are those things alive just because their organs are working.  That also dovetails with the whole Nephilim thread, where certain biological organism were engineered but that they did not have the animal soul, i.e. the life force in them.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Please Pray for His Excellency Bishop Richard Williamson!
    « Reply #22 on: January 25, 2025, 06:26:05 PM »
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  • So, we still don’t know for sure what is his status. No official announcement has been issued.

    Indeed, this has been extremely confusing.

    I wish we could track down the individual who first put out the information that he had died at noon (London time).


    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Please Pray for His Excellency Bishop Richard Williamson!
    « Reply #23 on: January 25, 2025, 06:51:26 PM »
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  • Indeed, this has been extremely confusing.

    I wish we could track down the individual who first put out the information that he had died at noon (London time).
    I saw it posted so many places that I have no idea which of them was the first.  

    WM Review claims that the death announcement was a fake and not really from Regina Martyrum House. https://x.com/TheWMReview/status/1883211632601612555  

    But I have no idea if they know what they are talking about.  I am not familiar with this group.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Please Pray for His Excellency Bishop Richard Williamson!
    « Reply #24 on: January 25, 2025, 06:57:48 PM »
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  • Yeah, I'm questioning whether they were in the position to know that it was a "fake".  Like you, I would find it astonishing if someone had gone out of their way to "fake" something like that.  What's the point?  I could see saying that the information was not correct, but that it was completely fake?

    If there's some wicked, malicious, hateful troll out there who's so evil as to "fake" something like that, we need to find and expose the scuм.

    I for one think it was real, but that the information was wrong, and/or the individual was distraught is saying that he basically died when doctors delivered the prognosis that Bishop Williamson could not recover and WOULD CERTAINLY die.  So a prognosis of death mistaken for or taken as being tantamount to a declaration of death.  Or "he's basically/effectively dead but just being sustained by life support."  That makes more sense to me than a fake troll job.

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Please Pray for His Excellency Bishop Richard Williamson!
    « Reply #25 on: January 25, 2025, 07:05:32 PM »
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  • If there's some wicked, malicious, hateful troll out there who's so evil as to "fake" something like that, we need to find and expose the scuм.

    I do not normally spend much time on X/twitter, but I did today, hunting down information on this. I saw so many wicked malicious hateful things said about His Excellency that I am not sure if I will be able to sleep tonight.  After today, I would not rule out anything as too evil to be possible.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Please Pray for His Excellency Bishop Richard Williamson!
    « Reply #26 on: January 25, 2025, 07:22:03 PM »
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  • There are so many evil people out there.  Also so many dumb people who jump to conclusions and don’t listen fully.  Hard to say in this case.  

    Offline pnw1994

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    Re: Please Pray for His Excellency Bishop Richard Williamson!
    « Reply #27 on: January 25, 2025, 07:40:07 PM »
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  • I spoke with a close friend recently who is in contact with someone at Bishop Williamson’s bedside. He is still alive but not expected to last through the night.

    This comes from someone who is personally with His Excellency.
    God cannot leave a soul to swim
    That has not first abandoned Him.

    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: Please Pray for His Excellency Bishop Richard Williamson!
    « Reply #28 on: January 25, 2025, 08:18:19 PM »
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  • I spoke with a close friend recently who is in contact with someone at Bishop Williamson’s bedside. He is still alive but not expected to last through the night.

    This comes from someone who is personally with His Excellency.
    Thank you for posting

    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Please Pray for His Excellency Bishop Richard Williamson!
    « Reply #29 on: January 25, 2025, 08:21:34 PM »
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  • I spoke with a close friend recently who is in contact with someone at Bishop Williamson’s bedside. He is still alive but not expected to last through the night.

    This comes from someone who is personally with His Excellency.
    Thank you for the update.
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"