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Author Topic: Bishop Thomas Aquinas OSB on Declaration of Fr. Stefan Pfluger re Consecrations  (Read 52196 times)

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Offline Plenus Venter

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          ABOUT A DECLARATION OF FR STEFAN PFLUGER, DISTRICT SUPERIOR OF THE GERMAN DISTRICT OF THE FSSPX




An article published in InfoCatolica on the statement of Fr. Stefan Pfluger reflects the direction that Bishop Fellay imprinted upon the Society of St. Pius X during his twenty-four years at the head of the Fraternity.

Fr. Stefan Pfluger is the Superior of the District of Germany. Although his statement does not have the same weight as a statement of the Superior General, it gives us some insight into the thinking of the Fraternity, thinking that reflects, at least in part, the positions previously taken by Bishop Fellay.

When Bishop Fellay attempted an agreement with Rome in 2012, there was a lively reaction from several priests as well as three bishops of the Fraternity. Although these agreements did not come to fruition, we can still see some traces of Bishop Fellay's ideas in the thinking of Father Stefan Pfluger, among others.

Fr. Stefan Pfluger says, “We don’t want to separate from Rome and we belong to the Church.” Archbishop Lefebvre too, and more than anyone. But Archbishop Lefebvre said what Fr. Pfluger does not say. He said that he gave all his adherence to eternal Rome and refused to follow the Rome of neo-modernist and neo-Protestant tendencies that clearly manifested itself in the Second Vatican Council and in the reforms that arose from it.

Fr. Pfluger is right to emphasise that we must not separate from Rome, but which Rome is he talking about? He does well to affirm that he belongs to the Church. But the current crisis forces us to ask: "To which Church?”

Bishop Fellay coined the term Concrete Church. This seems like a way of avoiding the question. If this distinction between the Catholic Church and the Conciliar Church is false, why does Archbishop Lefebvre use it? Why then does he say: “It is therefore a strict duty, for every priest who wants to remain Catholic, to separate himself from this Conciliar Church, for as long as it does not rediscover the tradition of the Magisterium of the Church and the Catholic Faith” (The Spiritual Life, p. 31 – Editora Permanência)?

That this is a mystery, there can be no doubt. How can there be two churches? How can the Catholic Church be occupied by her enemies? I don't know. What I do know is that she is occupied. It is a fact. She is occupied and it is a strict duty of every priest who wants to remain Catholic to separate from this Conciliar Church, as long as she does not rediscover the tradition of the Magisterium of the Church and of the Catholic faith. It is easier to establish a fact than to explain it. But it is foolhardy to reject the observations made by Archbishop Lefebvre. To speak of the Concrete Church is already to seek to approach the enemies of the Church that occupy it.

Fr. Pfluger suggests that the Society will do everything possible to obtain from Rome consent for new episcopal consecrations. In itself, this request, even made to Rome occupied by a modernist pope, is not necessarily a fault, for even if it is occupied the Church has not moved its seat to any other place. However, the example of Archbishop Lefebvre shows us that he did not think this request was essential. He announced in 1987 that he would probably consecrate bishops on the feast of Christ the King that year. If I am not mistaken, more than one date was proporsed. Rome then rushed to offer Archbishop Lefebvre the possibility of an agreement and the granting of bishops. Instead of Archbishop Lefebvre asking, it was Rome who offered. The sequence of events is well known and can be found in Mgr Tissier de Mallerais' book.

Archbishop Lefebvre told me, in the years 1984-1985, that he was very loath to consecrate bishops without the permission of Rome, but that he wondered if Our Lord would not say to him, after his death: “You could do it. Why didn't you do it?"

The question of permission is very important, but it is not essential in the state of necessity in which we find ourselves. Dom Licínio was consecrated in 1991 in São Fidelis, State of Rio de Janeiro, by Bishop Tissier de Mallerais, assisted by Bishop Williamson and Bishop de Galarreta. I have never heard that permission was sought from Rome for this.

Some of the Society's priests seem to have a diminished sense of the current crisis. Not all of them. Some are faithful to Archbishop Lefebvre. Some, perhaps, think that the Resistance is sedevacantist. No. The Resistance is a disciple of Archbishop Lefebvre, who was neither modernist, obviously, nor sedevacantist nor accordist. Archbishop Lefebvre is the St. Athanasius of the Vatican II crisis. The solutions he gave to the current crisis, his words and his attitudes are a light for all Catholics who want to remain faithful to the promises of their baptism.

May Our Lady obtain for us the grace to be faithful to her teachings, which are none other than the teachings of the Catholic Church, enshrined in her two-thousand-year-old Tradition. They are the teachings of our Lord, entrusted to the holy apostles.


+ Tomas de Aquino O.S.B.


The reference article: https://www.infocatolica.com/?t=noticia&cod=50997

https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2024/11/we-do-not-want-to-separate-ourselves.html









Offline hollingsworth

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Quote
Some of the Society's priests seem to have a diminished sense of the current crisis. Not all of them. Some are faithful to Archbishop Lefebvre. Some, perhaps, think that the Resistance is sedevacantist. No. The Resistance is a disciple of Archbishop Lefebvre, who was neither modernist, obviously, nor sedevacantist nor accordist. Archbishop Lefebvre is the St. Athanasius of the Vatican II crisis. The solutions he gave to the current crisis, his words and his attitudes are a light for all Catholics who want to remain faithful to the promises of their baptism.


 + Tomas de Aquino O.S.B.


The so called "Resistance," I'm pretty sure, recognizes the existence of two churches, one, the True Church, and the other, the Conciliar Church.  Resistance bishops would testify that they remain in the true church.  They decry the existence of the Conciliar Church.  The latter is headed by Bergoglio.  Do they claim that Bergoglio heads both churches?  I certainly don't.  Simple logic prevents me from doing so. Bergoglio can not be the head of two churches.  He's the 'pope' of a false church.  Ergo, he is a false pope and occupies a chair which can be said to be empty, or false.  Ergo the term 'sedevacantist,' as it applies to Catholics like myself, is a legitimate description of a valid position.  Why does +Aquino so carefully distance himself from sedevacantism.  He must, in fact, believe that Francis is the real pope.  Why then, can he not simply that position in clear, unmistakable language?   








Offline Ladislaus

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Yes, this aptly-named (by its adversaries) "FrankenChurch" theory has been promoted by some prominent members of the Resistance.  So they do base it on some valid distinctions, but then misapply them here.  If they were to apply them correctly, it would lead to the same lace as sedeprivationism or Chazalism (sedeimpoundism).

Offline Incredulous

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 Why does +Aquino so carefully distance himself from sedevacantism (?)

Let me try to answer this question: 

“Kayfabe” is an old pigLatin Circus term meaning a sham or lie.

When you’re running a Circus act and your audience knows it’s a sham and walks out on you… that’s the end of the circus show.

Therefore, the most evil thing to circus management are those who don’t fall for the Kayfabe.

In Traditional Catholicism, those non believers of the Roman circus and it’s dialogue” act are labeled as sedevacantists.

It is a derisive, term of talismanic qualities.

It’s as bad a word as αnтι-ѕємιтє, anti-vaxer, racists or homophobe.

Therefore, one can’t go near the sedevacantists term if one wants to maintain the Kayfabe, protect human respect and stay in good graces with circus management.
"Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

Offline Ladislaus

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Why does +Aquino so carefully distance himself from sedevacantism.

So, at some point, the term "sedevacantism" (and "sedevacantist") have been tranformed into dirty words, a clear sign that some kind of linguistic programming had been employed against it, where the mere mention of it evokes discomfort and distress in various individuals, and there can be no worse accusation that being called a ... "sedevacantist".  You could be a flaming Modernist heretic like Father Paul Robinson, but the term "sedevacantist" has become worse and more "dirty" than even Modernist or heretic.  You see, you can throw around the term Modernist, calling most of the V2 "hierarchy" Modernists, but the import of that has been weakened from denoting or even connoting heresy, into meaning something watered down like "liberal", also demonstrating the shifting Overton window.

So, for instance, when Father Chazal articulated his thesis regarding the Crisis, many pointed out its striking similarity to sedeprivationism (which in R&R minds is just a synonym for sedevacantism), and Father Chazal suddenly becamse extremely defensive.  "No, not that.  Anything but that.  I am NOT a sedevacantist.  Contra Cekadam, and all that."

It's borderline puerile how various individuals can't think rationally about these subjects but are just emoting viscerally in response to some kind of linguistic programming.


Offline Plenus Venter

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The so called "Resistance," I'm pretty sure, recognizes the existence of two churches, one, the True Church, and the other, the Conciliar Church.  Resistance bishops would testify that they remain in the true church.  They decry the existence of the Conciliar Church.  The latter is headed by Bergoglio.  Do they claim that Bergoglio heads both churches?  I certainly don't.  Simple logic prevents me from doing so. Bergoglio can not be the head of two churches.  He's the 'pope' of a false church.  Ergo, he is a false pope and occupies a chair which can be said to be empty, or false.  Ergo the term 'sedevacantist,' as it applies to Catholics like myself, is a legitimate description of a valid position. Why does +Aquino so carefully distance himself from sedevacantism.  He must, in fact, believe that Francis is the real pope.  Why then, can he not simply that position in clear, unmistakable language? 
Reality is not as simple as we would sometimes like it to be.

That is why Bishop Thomas Aquinas states: "That this is a mystery, there can be no doubt. How can there be two churches? How can the Catholic Church be occupied by her enemies? I don't know. What I do know is that she is occupied. It is a fact... It is easier to establish a fact than to explain it."

Bishop Thomas takes care to distance himself from sedevacantism because, like Archbishop Lefebvre and the Society of St Pius X before him, he considers it important, and the enemies of the Resistance use this label to falsify the position of the Resistance which is in fact no different from the position of Archbishop Lefebvre.

Evidently you too, Hollingsworth, consider this question important... important enough for you to want to convince us that the See of Peter is vacant. So we really are in agreement: it is an important question. You ask why Bishop Thomas distances himself from sedevacantism, but  I ask why you and your fellow sedevacantists distance yourselves from Archbishop Lefebvre? No, he is not infallible, but who is the better judge?

We follow Archbishop Lefebvre in this matter because we believe his judgment to be true: at once just, charitable, prudent and pastoral.

Bishop Thomas Aquinas makes it clear in all his statements that we simply want to follow Archbishop Lefebvre "in everything". So here is the 'simple, clear and unmistakable' articulation of that position that you are seeking from Archbishop Lefebvre himself in 1989:

"Unlike sedevacantists, we act vis-a-vis the Pope as vis-a-vis the Successor of Peter. We address ourselves to him as such, and we pray as such. The majority of faithful and traditional priests also feel that it is the prudential and wise solution: to recognize that there is a successor on the throne of Peter, and that it is necessary to strongly oppose him, because of the errors he spreads." ("Apres les ralliements sonnera l’heure de vérité," Fideliter 68, March 1989, p. 13).

The pastoral consequences of our judgement on this question of the Pope should not be underestimated, because most of the world's Catholics are trapped as it were in the Conciliar Church, many of them not even knowing about the world of Tradition. While it might be a very small percentage of those in the Conciliar Church who have kept the Faith, numerically they still far outnumber those in Tradition. The sedevacantist way of thinking very quickly has all of these Catholics outside the Church with no Pope, no bishops, no priests, no sacraments, and no hope! Alas, reality is more complicated.

Here is a reminder of a little more of the Archbishop's thinking on this subject, which was clearly his ultimate judgement:

See, I think that's where our whole problem lies. We live in an exceptional time. We cannot judge everything that is done in the Church according to normal times. We find ourselves in an exceptional situation, it is also necessary to interpret the principles that should govern our ecclesiastical superiors. These principles, we must see them in the minds of those who live today, those principles that were so clear in the past, so simple, that no one was discussing them, that we did not have the opportunity to discuss them, they fail, I would say, in the minds of the Liberals, in the minds, as I explained to you, that have no clarity of vision... It changes the situation. We are in a situation of unbelievable confusion. So let's not draw mathematical conclusions like that, without considering these circuмstances.

Because then we make mistakes: Either we endorse the revolution in the Church, and participate in the destruction of the Church, and we leave with the progressives. Or we leave the Church completely and find ourselves where? With whom? With what? How would we be linked to the apostles, how connected to the origins of the Church? Gone... and how long is this going to last? So if the last three conclaves should no longer be considered valid, as those in America say who have consecrated their own bishops, and if then there is no longer a Pope, and if there are no more cardinals either.. ? We don't see how we could once more obtain a legitimate pope... No! That's a complete mess.

So it seems to me that we must stay on this course of common sense, and of the direction which also agrees with the good sense of the faithful ... We remain as we are now, we want to keep Tradition. But neither do we want to separate ourselves completely from the Pope, [saying] "There is no longer a pope, there is no longer anything, there is no more authority, we don't know to whom we are attached, there is no more Rome, there is no more Catholic Church". That [solution] doesn’t work either. They are lost too, they feel lost, they are disoriented. (Spiritual Conference on Sedevacantism and Liberalism, 1984)

... the defenders of tradition are divided. Some say that the Decrees of Rome, signed or carried out by the Pope, are so bad that the Pope cannot be a legitimate Pope, he is a usurper. There is therefore no Pope, the See is vacant. Others affirm that the Pope cannot sign decrees which are destructive of the Faith and therefore these decrees are acceptable and one must submit to them. The Society [of St. Pius X] does not accept one or the other of these two solutions, but supported by the history of the Church and the doctrine of theologians, thinks that the Pope can favour the ruin of the Church by choosing bad collaborators and allowing them to act, by signing decrees which do not engage his infallibility, sometimes even by his own admission, which cause considerable harm to the Church. Nothing is more dangerous to the Church than liberal Popes who are in a continual state of incoherence.  On the other hand, we think that God can allow the Church to be afflicted with this misfortune. Consequently we pray for the Pope but we refuse to follow him in his folly in regard to religious liberty, ecuмenism, socialism and the application of reforms which are ruinous for the Church. Our apparent disobedience is true obedience to the Church and the Pope as successor of Peter in the measure that he continues to maintain Tradition. (Principles and Directives - General Chapter 1982)

Pere Jean (OFM Cap, Morgon) put it in a nutshell with this statement in 2016: "It is understandable that some Traditional Catholics... be deeply troubled by the scandals of Pope Francis, who seems to have surpassed his predecessors. The sedevacantist solution may appear to them as the simplest, most logical, and best. In fact, the fundamental problem remains the same since the '70s, and the prudent attitude of Archbishop Lefebvre, in considering the risk of excessive and rash judgement, with the attendant danger of schism, should not be abandoned. In 2001, the Small Catechism on Sedevacantism published by Le Sel de la Terre concluded: 'This is a position that has not been proven at the speculative level, and it is imprudent to hold it at a practical level, an imprudence that can bear very serious consequences.' (No. 36, p. 117) This conclusion holds as much for Pope Francis as for Pope John-Paul II who had kissed the Quran."

Even if you choose not to follow the Archbishop in this matter, I hope this at least answers your question as to why Bishop Thomas Aquinas is careful to correct the misconceptions about sedevacantism in relation to the Resistance... he considers it important, just like you do!




Offline Seraphina

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Why can’t the Church be “occupied” by Her enemies? She does not cease to be the Church. France was still France when “occupied” by Hitler. 
Share your thoughts.

Offline hollingsworth

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You could be a flaming Modernist heretic like Father Paul Robinson, but the term "sedevacantist" has become worse and more "dirty" than even Modernist or heretic. 
Yes, I think you're right.  '(S)edevacantism' has become a dirty word.  Yet, as some of you seem to think I am in the sedevacantist camp merely by virtue of rejecting Bergoglio.  It's a no-win for folks like me.

Look, We simply follow the optics.  We listen to what this putative pope says and does.  That's all.
Would any of you condemn Goldilocks?  She walked in on Grandma, saw her lying in bed, and made a few observations. "Grandma," what big ears you have!" Quite obviously, Grandma's hairy ears stuck out grotesquely from under her night cap.  "My, Grandma, what big eyes you have!"  Who would not start at those great red menacing eyes?  "Grandma, what sharp teeth you have!"  (Goldilocks knew her real grandma wore false teeth, which she took out at night.)  Some versions of the story have the Big Bad Wolf suddenly jumping out of bed and devouring Goldilocks.  
Well, Bergoglio is devouring millions of the faithful even as I write.  He's not a pope.  He's a wolf.  Flee from him  while you can.  And don't stumble over the scattered debris of 'false obedience' as you hurry out of Grandma's bedroom.


Offline Stubborn

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Why can’t the Church be “occupied” by Her enemies? She does not cease to be the Church. France was still France when “occupied” by Hitler.
Share your thoughts.
From a video on Youtube titled: "3500 Bishops are wrong, and I'm right" with Fr. Hesse......

“If we have a new faith and religion since Vatican II, can we have one Pope over both?”

That is a very good question. Yes.
 
Who keeps the Pope of the Holy Roman Catholic Church from being the president of a stupid club? I mean think about it in logical and realistic terms. Does the Papacy exclude automatically, infallibly, membership in a stupid club? No.

 Where does it say so? No dogma says that. No Pope ever said that. In the old days, you might have the bishop of the diocese of so-and-so, was it impossible for him to be at the same time the president of the Democratic Communist Veterans Club of the local place? No. What would keep him from doing so, except a good conscience? Nothing.

He doesn’t cease to be bishop because he belongs to some idiotic institution at the same time. Right? And I told you that we have a Pope who pronounces one heresy after the other and he doesn’t cease to be Pope. Why would he cease to be Pope if he heads a Novus Ordo, United Nations, B’nai B’rith Jєωιѕн Masonry club called the Church of the New Advent, a neo-Gnostic sect? He can be the elected Vicar of Christ and at the same time the guy in charge of some members of a rascal organisation..."
"But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

Offline Plenus Venter

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Yes, I think you're right.  '(S)edevacantism' has become a dirty word.  Yet, as some of you seem to think I am in the sedevacantist camp merely by virtue of rejecting Bergoglio.  It's a no-win for folks like me.
Or maybe we think you are because you told us you are: "he is a false pope and occupies a chair which can be said to be empty, or false.  Ergo the term 'sedevacantist,' as it applies to Catholics like myself, is a legitimate description of a valid position."

Offline Croagh Patrick

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  • Yes, I think you're right.  '(S)edevacantism' has become a dirty word.  Yet, as some of you seem to think I am in the sedevacantist camp merely by virtue of rejecting Bergoglio.  It's a no-win for folks like me.

    Look, We simply follow the optics.  We listen to what this putative pope says and does.  That's all.
    Would any of you condemn Goldilocks?  She walked in on Grandma, saw her lying in bed, and made a few observations. "Grandma," what big ears you have!" Quite obviously, Grandma's hairy ears stuck out grotesquely from under her night cap.  "My, Grandma, what big eyes you have!"  Who would not start at those great red menacing eyes?  "Grandma, what sharp teeth you have!"  (Goldilocks knew her real grandma wore false teeth, which she took out at night.)  Some versions of the story have the Big Bad Wolf suddenly jumping out of bed and devouring Goldilocks. 
    Well, Bergoglio is devouring millions of the faithful even as I write.  He's not a pope.  He's a wolf.  Flee from him  while you can.  And don't stumble over the scattered debris of 'false obedience' as you hurry out of Grandma's bedroom.
    Emmm...just my observation, but wasn't that Red Riding Hood. Goldilocks stole the bears porridge?


    Offline CarmelFlower

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  • Emmm...just my observation, but wasn't that Red Riding Hood. Goldilocks stole the bears porridge?
    I was hoping someone would catch that besides me…

    Offline chrstnoel1

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  • Emmm...just my observation, but wasn't that Red Riding Hood. Goldilocks stole the bears porridge?
    :laugh1:
    "It is impious to say, 'I respect every religion.' This is as much as to say: I respect the devil as much as God, vice as much as virtue, falsehood as much as truth, dishonesty as much as honesty, Hell as much as Heaven."
    Fr. Michael Muller, The Church and Her Enemies