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Author Topic: Pivarunas on Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre  (Read 8504 times)

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Pivarunas on Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre
« on: September 18, 2024, 09:12:28 PM »
Wait, before you read this keep in mind Pivarunas was trained as a priest by a layman, that explains everything. 

Pivarunas- This is the ultimate contradiction; while they maintain nominal recognition of John Paul II as pope, they completely disregard him by acting without jurisdiction which they would need to receive from him in order to function as bishops and priests.
What is the source of this theologically-confused position? They recognize John Paul II as pope and yet have no jurisdictional or canonical connection with him. Why is the Society of St. Pius X caught in this dilemma?
The answer is to be found in the vacillating position of its founder, the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. By the consideration of a few public statements made by the late Archbishop throughout the years, the absence of a clear and consistent theological position becomes most apparent. And as this inconsistent position was bequeathed to the Society of St. Pius X, it will be the ultimate reason for their eventual compromise and reconciliation with the Conciliar Church. 

:facepalm:


https://cmri.org/articles-on-the-traditional-catholic-faith/the-campos-defection-and-the-illogical-theological-position-of-the-society-of-st-pius-x/

Re: Pivarunas on Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2024, 01:57:12 PM »
It's perfectly understandable that CM ri thinks badly of Archbishop Lefebvre,  they have to do what they can to make their situation look good. Keep hiding the fact that their founder was a cult leader. You can see by their current leader's flimsy attack on real Traditional Bishop and they praise Thuc who was a liberal at V2.


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Pivarunas on Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2024, 03:23:21 PM »
Are you deranged?  You seem to have a seriously unhealthy obsession with Bishop Pivarunas and Archbishop Thuc.  At no time in the entire lengthy article about the inconsistent theological position of +Lefebvre did he even mention Archbishop Thuc.  You also just outright lie about +Thuc ... apparently having no issues with calumny.  +Thuc was no "liberal at V2" but was part of the same group of conservative Fathers as +Lefebvre.  +Lefebvre asked +Thuc to start and run the seminary at Econe original, but +Thuc declined, feeling that he did not have the energy left at his age to undertake it.  +Thuc held two advanced degrees from Rome and had in fact founded and set up seminaries from scratch (the reason +Lefebvre initially asked him).  +Thuc was more of a trained theologian than +Lefebvre ever was.  Nor is Bishop Pivarunas alone in pointing out the inconsistencies in the position of the SSPX, as many extremely well-trained clergy (whatever you want to falsely smear +Pivarunas with) are in complete agreement with the criticisms he's making here ... not the least of whom was Bishop Guerard des Lauriers, who was arguably the top theologian in the Church before V2.

Re: Pivarunas on Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2024, 03:51:20 PM »
Thank you, Ladislaus for telling the real truth about Thuc. CMRI has been a real blessing for many who are wounded from the Vatican II sect. 

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Pivarunas on Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2024, 04:14:42 PM »
Thank you, Ladislaus for telling the real truth about Thuc. CMRI has been a real blessing for many who are wounded from the Vatican II sect.

I do not agree with the CMRI about a number of theological issues, but the truth is the truth ... and I have no hesitation assisting at CMRI Masses.  In addition to these smears against Archbishop Thuc, there's the other ludicrous/absurd claim being made by the SSPV (and their ilk) that the CMRI are schismatic or Old Catholic.  It's one thing to disagree with a group, and another to make up lies and engage in smear campaigns.  I could go RIGHT NOW to an Orthodox Bishop and seek ordination/consecration and, guess what, that does NOT make me an Orthodox schismatic.  By Canon Law, I'd be suspended from the exercise of my Orders, and not considered to have forfeited my membership in the Church or to have become a heretic/schismatic, just suspended, but given the Crisis in the Church, I don't even believe God would enforce that (since, as we know, Canon Law in general, in provisions that are not merely a reflection of Divine Law, is meant to keep order in the Church in NORMAL TIMES, but there can be scenarios where the salvation of souls trumps the positive law).  Even then, Daniel Brown made an abjuration before ordaining/consecrating Shuckhardt.  Regardless, heresy/schism are not contagious.  And Brown had been doing the same thing, seeking consecration due to the crisis, and the group he sought Orders from was the Old Roman Catholics not the Old Catholics (there are some significant differences, since the Old Roman Catholics reject the Old Catholic heresies ... look up the difference).

At one point, a priest who had been affiliated with Bishop Kelly, the primary author of these smear campaigns, reported that Bishop Kelly said of the +Thuc line bishops that "We can't say they're valid, or else people might go there."

Overall, it's quite shameful.