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Poll

Do you see anything wrong with an "Ora Pro Nobis" Harley, Academy boys running in shorts, or Mass on a Jeep hood without necessity?

Yes, these things are all problematic.
16 (51.6%)
Tempest in a Teacup (i.e., nitpicking)
9 (29%)
What's the problem?
6 (19.4%)

Total Members Voted: 29

Author Topic: Pics from the Latest Rorate Coeli Report  (Read 7376 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Pics from the Latest Rorate Coeli Report
« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2020, 05:29:47 PM »
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  • I found the 1917 Code in Latin:
    Quote
    Can 822 §1. Missa celebranda est super altare consecratum et in ecclesia vel oratorio consecrato aut benedicto ad normam iuris, salvo praescripto can. 1196.
     §2. Privilegium altaris portatilis vel iure vel indulto Sedis tantum Apostolicae conceditur.
     §3. Hoc privilegium ita intelligendum est, ut secuмferat facultatem ubique celebrandi, honesto tamen ac decenti loco et super petram sacram, non autem in mari.
     §4. Loci Ordinarius aut, si agatur de domo religionis exemptae, Superior maior, licentiam celebrandi extra ecclesiam et oratorium super petram sacram et decenti loco, nunquam autem in cubiculo, concedere potest iusta tantum ac rationabili de causa, in aliquo extraordinario casu et per modum actus.

    my translation:

    1.  Mass is to be celebrated upon a consecrated altar and in a church or an oratory consecrated or blessed according to the norm of the law, excepting only the prescription of Canon 1196 (I'll cite that later).

    2.  The Privilege of a Portable Altar is conceded either by law or by an indult from the Apostolic See alone.

    3.  This priviledge (above) is to be understood as to bring with it the faculty of celebrating anywhere, provided it be in a respectable and decent place, and upon a sacred stone (altar stone), but not, however, at sea.

    4.  The Ordinary of the location, or, if we're dealing with someone from a house of exempt religious (I'm guessing this means religious not required to be under an ordinary), the Major Superior, has the power to grant the permission for celebration outside of Church and oratory, upon a sacred stone (altar stone) and in a decent place, never, however, in sleeeping quarters, for a just and reasonable cause, in some extraordinary situation and "per modum actus" (this is some legal term I'm not acquainted with, literally, "through the manner of the action" ... I'm guessing this means something like it's limited to a single action and cannot be a general permission, i.e. must be specific to a particular concrete situation and not a generic permission).

    1196 (referenced above)

    Can 1196 §1. Oratoria domestica nec consecrari nec benedici possunt more ecclesiarum.
     §2. Licet oratoria domestica et semi-publica communi locorum domorumve benedictione aut nulla benedictione donentur, debent tamen esse divino tantum cultui reservata et ab omnibus domesticis usibus libera.

    1. A domestic oratory (home chapel) can neither be consecreated or blessed in the manner of churches.

    2.  Nevertheless, domestic oratories maybe be bestowed with a semi-public common blessing of places or homes, or with no blessing, but nevertheless they ought to be reserved for divine worship only and free from all domestic uses.  [So these cannot be blessed with the formal blessing as if they were churches, but just a generic blessing of places or homes, or may be unblessed, but they cannot double for normal activities and must be reserved, i.e. you can't have a domestic oratory in a dining room where you would at various times also take meals.)



    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Pics from the Latest Rorate Coeli Report
    « Reply #31 on: January 20, 2020, 05:31:13 PM »
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  • Reverence is a disposition that can be inspired in the most humble of places.

    Indeed, it CAN.  Those soldiers who did this out of necessity were being reverent, but those like Father Novak who do it for spectacle or show are not being reverent, and they're most certainly not in line with the Church's thinking.


    Offline Ekim

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    Re: Pics from the Latest Rorate Coeli Report
    « Reply #32 on: January 20, 2020, 05:34:23 PM »
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  • Indeed, it CAN.  Those soldiers who did this out of necessity were being reverent, but those like Father Novak who do it for spectacle or show are not being reverent, and they're most certainly not in line with the Church's thinking.
    And so you assume...
    You should be careful with your scandalous opinions.  You just might be wrong.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Pics from the Latest Rorate Coeli Report
    « Reply #33 on: January 20, 2020, 05:41:33 PM »
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  • And so you assume...
    You should be careful with your scandalous opinions.  You just might be wrong.

    This is not opinion.  This is the Law of the Church.  It's there in black and white.

    Offline Mr G

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    Re: Pics from the Latest Rorate Coeli Report
    « Reply #34 on: January 20, 2020, 05:44:32 PM »
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  • What constitutes a “proper altar” on a 33 mile trek?  I’m sure there wasn’t one “present”.  Altar stone was present as well as sacred linens, candles, vessels, and crucifix.
    There was no 33 trek, you are thinking of the pilgrimage to Lyons, KS winch takes place in July. This was the 2nd Annual SSPX 3rd Order field trip to various historical Churches in Kansas, ending with the Mass at Pilsen, Fr. Kapaun's home town.


    Offline Ekim

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    Re: Pics from the Latest Rorate Coeli Report
    « Reply #35 on: January 20, 2020, 05:55:22 PM »
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  • You said the pilgrimage was months in the planning.

    But nobody thought about bringing or constructing an altar if one was not present (like on every other Catholic pilgrimage)?
     
    Why?

    Answer: Because they wanted to celebrate it on the hood of the Jeep.
    What is wrong with the hood of a Jeep?  Would you prefer a Mercedes Benz or perhaps the seminary’s Jaguar (sarcasm)?
    I thought it was the Altar Stone, specifically, that constitutes a “proper altar”?  Wether that stone rests on a plank of wood or sheet of marble that you shlept along your 33 mile hike is irrelevant.
    BTW, I never said this particular pilgrimage was planned months in advance, only the restoration of the Proto Cathedral in Wilmington NC.  
    Also, It was not uncommon for Father Novak to announce a pilgrimage or act of reparation with little to no advance knowledge....as when he announced one Sunday that after Mass we were all going to process to the local Novus Ordo Church and offer Benediction on the steps in reparation for the many blasphemous “Communions in the Hand” and “Eucharistic ministers” (the good ol’ days).

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Pics from the Latest Rorate Coeli Report
    « Reply #36 on: January 20, 2020, 07:51:00 PM »
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  • What is wrong with the hood of a Jeep?  

    Uhm, it's not a Church or oratory, and there's no necessity.  They did this simply because they wanted to.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Pics from the Latest Rorate Coeli Report
    « Reply #37 on: January 20, 2020, 07:53:01 PM »
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  • I thought it was the Altar Stone, specifically, that constitutes a “proper altar”?  Wether that stone rests on a plank of wood or sheet of marble that you shlept along your 33 mile hike is irrelevant.

    Did you bother to read the Canon Law citation above?  Mass must be said in a Church or oratory, apart from necessity, as permitted by the Ordinary.  Even WHEN so permitted (when the conditions apply), then an Altar Stone must be used.


    Offline Kazimierz

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    Re: Pics from the Latest Rorate Coeli Report
    « Reply #38 on: January 20, 2020, 07:59:48 PM »
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  • After seeing that picture of that Harley Davidson, it calls to mind a clip from a silly B grade SF movie. I would say with heavy sarcasm sprinkled with a good dose of truth, of where the SSPX is at, if not enroute towards. ::)
    Maybe next time they should say a Mass on a Mercedes Benz, as that is more appropos to the re-branding. They can call it the Fellaymobile.
    Can you say Holy Sacrilege Batman? Good. I knew you could. ;)

    Da pacem Domine in diebus nostris
    Qui non est alius
    Qui pugnet pro nobis
    Nisi  tu Deus noster

    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Pics from the Latest Rorate Coeli Report
    « Reply #39 on: January 20, 2020, 08:49:48 PM »
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  • Quote
    What is wrong with the hood of a Jeep? 
    Using this logic, what’s wrong with a novus ordo table?  
    .
    Seriously, the main issue with the hood of a Jeep is that this vehicle is not efficient enough, and it’s high carbon emissions aren’t kosher with +Francis’ earth-worshiping goals.  +Fellay better tell his priests to start using Tesla hoods or some other hybrids or else they’ll get excommunicated.  

    Offline Aleah

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    Re: Pics from the Latest Rorate Coeli Report
    « Reply #40 on: January 21, 2020, 04:19:50 AM »
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  • I found the 1917 Code in Latin:
    my translation:

    1.  Mass is to be celebrated upon a consecrated altar and in a church or an oratory consecrated or blessed according to the norm of the law, excepting only the prescription of Canon 1196 (I'll cite that later).

    2.  The Privilege of a Portable Altar is conceded either by law or by an indult from the Apostolic See alone.

    3.  This priviledge (above) is to be understood as to bring with it the faculty of celebrating anywhere, provided it be in a respectable and decent place, and upon a sacred stone (altar stone), but not, however, at sea.

    4.  The Ordinary of the location, or, if we're dealing with someone from a house of exempt religious (I'm guessing this means religious not required to be under an ordinary), the Major Superior, has the power to grant the permission for celebration outside of Church and oratory, upon a sacred stone (altar stone) and in a decent place, never, however, in sleeeping quarters, for a just and reasonable cause, in some extraordinary situation and "per modum actus" (this is some legal term I'm not acquainted with, literally, "through the manner of the action" ... I'm guessing this means something like it's limited to a single action and cannot be a general permission, i.e. must be specific to a particular concrete situation and not a generic permission).

    1196 (referenced above)

    Can 1196 §1. Oratoria domestica nec consecrari nec benedici possunt more ecclesiarum.
    §2. Licet oratoria domestica et semi-publica communi locorum domorumve benedictione aut nulla benedictione donentur, debent tamen esse divino tantum cultui reservata et ab omnibus domesticis usibus libera.

    1. A domestic oratory (home chapel) can neither be consecreated or blessed in the manner of churches.

    2.  Nevertheless, domestic oratories maybe be bestowed with a semi-public common blessing of places or homes, or with no blessing, but nevertheless they ought to be reserved for divine worship only and free from all domestic uses.  [So these cannot be blessed with the formal blessing as if they were churches, but just a generic blessing of places or homes, or may be unblessed, but they cannot double for normal activities and must be reserved, i.e. you can't have a domestic oratory in a dining room where you would at various times also take meals.)
    We don't even have this now in the SSPX. SSPV, or any independent chapel.

    2.  The Privilege of a Portable Altar is conceded either by law or by an indult from the Apostolic See alone.
    I am He who is- you are she who is not.


    Offline Aleah

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    Re: Pics from the Latest Rorate Coeli Report
    « Reply #41 on: January 21, 2020, 04:38:38 AM »
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  • "A Harley Davidson trike, painted in flames, with "Ora Pro Nobis" painten on the rear.  It is touted favorably as being a unique apostolate"


    Are we okay with all of the Catholic stickers people plaster on the back of their vehicles? I just drove behind someone with a sticker saying, "Pray the Rosary". 
    Is that allowed? If it is then it is the same as what is cited above.
    I am He who is- you are she who is not.

    Offline St Peter

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    Re: Pics from the Latest Rorate Coeli Report
    « Reply #42 on: January 21, 2020, 07:00:07 AM »
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  • The boys in shorts thing never would have happened in the 1900s.
    Yes it would have:


    This would not have been accepted in the 1900s, but it is certainly acceptable today:

    Offline St Peter

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    Re: Pics from the Latest Rorate Coeli Report
    « Reply #43 on: January 21, 2020, 07:03:39 AM »
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  •   You should be careful when you assume.  
    This is a frequent occurrence on Cathinfo.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Pics from the Latest Rorate Coeli Report
    « Reply #44 on: January 21, 2020, 07:19:41 AM »
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  • Yes it would have:


    This would not have been accepted in the 1900s, but it is certainly acceptable today:


    I meant 1990’s, not 1900’s, and referred to SSPXers, not some secular non-Catholics.

    The idea that the SSPX would have paraded boys in shorts in its RC Report America in the 1990’s is absurd, since at that time they were also teaching shorts were not appropriate.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."