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Offline PhxGroup

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Phoenix sspx chapel update
« on: March 26, 2016, 10:25:46 PM »
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      We are a group of adults who have been members of Our Lady of Sorrows for many years some of us are founders who have been here from the very beginning in the late 70s

     It should be of no surprise to anyone that we are unhappy with the new church ,
    The fact of the matter is everyone we have talked to has complaints ,some have just a few
    like the horrible sound system that makes following the Mass or hearing the sermon nearly impossible or the permanent suspension of traditional devotions and groups like the Holy Name Society or closing of the book store.

     Others , Many who are established members have just left due to number of complaints being so many

    All you have to do is take a trip one Sunday to the other traditional masses  around the valley and you will see for yourself how many former OLOS parishioners attend

    Ask the kitchen staff they will tell you Sunday doughnut and coffee sales are down by half for this time of year

    Ask the Ushers they will tell you  collections are down and complaints are growing ( be careful which usher you ask though some are more loyal to Fr. Riccomini then they are the church or the faith and they will report you  )

    The church is dying as a community . Older established members are already going and gone
    soon it will be families with children, the only reason most of them stayed at all was the school
    but as other traditional parishes grow with our former members they too will be able to open schools

    We were going to list some of those complaints ,ones we heard over & over but this our first post is already long enough  we will though list a few

    The sound system

    The closing of the book store

    The lack of one single statue in the church

    The disbanding of the Holy Name Society

    The suspension of blessing religious articles

    The ending of most evening masses

    we could go on and on as there are a lot more but as we said this post is long enough      

     



           

       
    If the SSPX is to survive, the future of the society lies in our past  


    Online TheRealMcCoy

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    Phoenix sspx chapel update
    « Reply #1 on: March 27, 2016, 07:57:15 AM »
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  • At the vigil last night I was shocked at how empty the chapel was.  There were maybe 3 dozen people in a building that can easily fit 300.  Where is everyone?  On any given Sunday you would see at least a 100.  At Christmas that place was standing room only.



    Offline Matthew

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    Phoenix sspx chapel update
    « Reply #2 on: March 27, 2016, 08:23:31 AM »
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  • I'm curious how the sound system makes it "impossible to follow a sermon".

    Generally speaking, a PA system broadcasts the priest's voice louder, so people in the back can hear it better.

    I'm not trying to be a heckler, as I'm completely sympathetic to your viewpoint. But as a former head of the "Audio department" of a seminary, and as a chapel coordinator who not too long ago bought a PA system along with a wireless "lavalier" microphone for the priest to use during sermons, I'm curious what your complaints are about the sound system.
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    Offline wallflower

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    Phoenix sspx chapel update
    « Reply #3 on: March 27, 2016, 08:56:11 AM »
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  • These seem like logistics complaints and disagreements. Are they related to the Resistance in some way?


    Offline Aleah

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    Phoenix sspx chapel update
    « Reply #4 on: March 27, 2016, 10:43:19 AM »
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  • Quote from: PhxGroup
     
      We are a group of adults who have been members of Our Lady of Sorrows for many years some of us are founders who have been here from the very beginning in the late 70s

     It should be of no surprise to anyone that we are unhappy with the new church ,
    The fact of the matter is everyone we have talked to has complaints ,some have just a few
    like the horrible sound system that makes following the Mass or hearing the sermon nearly impossible or the permanent suspension of traditional devotions and groups like the Holy Name Society or closing of the book store.

     Others , Many who are established members have just left due to number of complaints being so many

    All you have to do is take a trip one Sunday to the other traditional masses  around the valley and you will see for yourself how many former OLOS parishioners attend

    Ask the kitchen staff they will tell you Sunday doughnut and coffee sales are down by half for this time of year

    Ask the Ushers they will tell you  collections are down and complaints are growing ( be careful which usher you ask though some are more loyal to Fr. Riccomini then they are the church or the faith and they will report you  )

    The church is dying as a community . Older established members are already going and gone
    soon it will be families with children, the only reason most of them stayed at all was the school
    but as other traditional parishes grow with our former members they too will be able to open schools

    We were going to list some of those complaints ,ones we heard over & over but this our first post is already long enough  we will though list a few

    The sound system

    The closing of the book store

    The lack of one single statue in the church

    The disbanding of the Holy Name Society

    The suspension of blessing religious articles

    The ending of most evening masses

    we could go on and on as there are a lot more but as we said this post is long enough      

     

         

       


    I can't speak to all of these but I do know the bookstore is open but has been moved to a temporary location until the basement of the church has been completed. I talked to the bookstore manager about this less than one week ago. She went into detail about how they have re-opened using one of the offices for the priests in the (I believe) parish hall.
    I am He who is- you are she who is not.


    Offline Mark 79

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    Phoenix sspx chapel update
    « Reply #5 on: March 27, 2016, 10:58:16 AM »
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  • Quote from: PhxGroup
     
      We are a group of adults who have been members of Our Lady of Sorrows for many years some of us are founders who have been here from the very beginning in the late 70s

     It should be of no surprise to anyone that we are unhappy with the new church ,
    The fact of the matter is everyone we have talked to has complaints ,some have just a few
    like the horrible sound system that makes following the Mass or hearing the sermon nearly impossible or the permanent suspension of traditional devotions and groups like the Holy Name Society or closing of the book store.

     Others , Many who are established members have just left due to number of complaints being so many

    All you have to do is take a trip one Sunday to the other traditional masses  around the valley and you will see for yourself how many former OLOS parishioners attend

    Ask the kitchen staff they will tell you Sunday doughnut and coffee sales are down by half for this time of year

    Ask the Ushers they will tell you  collections are down and complaints are growing ( be careful which usher you ask though some are more loyal to Fr. Riccomini then they are the church or the faith and they will report you  )

    The church is dying as a community . Older established members are already going and gone
    soon it will be families with children, the only reason most of them stayed at all was the school
    but as other traditional parishes grow with our former members they too will be able to open schools

    We were going to list some of those complaints ,ones we heard over & over but this our first post is already long enough  we will though list a few

    The sound system

    The closing of the book store

    The lack of one single statue in the church

    The disbanding of the Holy Name Society

    The suspension of blessing religious articles

    The ending of most evening masses

    we could go on and on as there are a lot more but as we said this post is long enough      

       


    There are legitimate gripes, but inaccuracy detracts from the legitimate gripes.

    The book store is open in Boyle Hall, smaller space, but approximately the same holdings. It is promised more space when the new church basement is built out.

    There is a statue of Our Blessed Mother above the baldacchino and a Pietà at the Western entry. While I would appreciate statues at the transepts, it is evident that the parish, host of numerous priestly and lay retreats, has a church designed with side altars instead of devotional crypts to accommodate the needs of priest retreatants to celebrate their daily Mass.

    While the smaller bookstore has no drop-off basket for articles to be blessed without asking a priest personally, I have heard no policy that religious articles will not be blessed. Who announced such a "policy"?

    Agreed that Masses and Confessions are fewer in number, but Our Lady of Sorrows' priests are now serving distant locations. I would like the schedule to accommodate my preferences, but I cannot in good conscience imagine that my preferences for more Masses should trump the needs of those who would otherwise have no traditional sacraments at all.

    Quote from: TheRealMcCoy
    At the vigil last night I was shocked at how empty the chapel was.  There were maybe 3 dozen people in a building that can easily fit 300.  Where is everyone?  On any given Sunday you would see at least a 100.  At Christmas that place was standing room only.



    Really? Did you leave before Mass to rush and post your criticism? The Mass of the Paschal Vigil was PACKED in a church built for about 800 seated.

    Meanwhile, our family began assisting at the 10am Mass because the 8am Mass has been so packed every Sunday. From the 300 capacity Church where it was hard to seat the family it has been déjà vu finding it hard to seat the family in a church built for 800.

    I see numerous unfamiliar faces, entire families of unfamiliar faces.

    All of this is good evidence that the new Church is attracting new families and the parish is growing.

    That said, the sound "system," a single electrostatic speaker at the apse, is atrocious, but I think the more serious problem is the airy-fairy content of the sermons. I miss solid sermons that help us face the world, the flesh, and the devil in our daily lives.

    My biggest local gripe?  The recent insistence that young children not play on the lawn near the new statue of Our Lady. Who in their right mind could imagine the Mother of God frowning upon young children joyous at play? What better a place for children to play than under the gaze of the Blessed Virgin Mary?

    I stand by my other criticisms of the Zionist-submissive cabal and its incompetent and dishonest dealings with the occupied Vatican and heavy-handed approach in suppressing even respectful criticism, but I cannot countenance a grossly erroneous assessment of a "dying community."

    Since Fr. Riccomini has been gone for months, how are the ushers to report to him?  Sorry to say so, but that comment and the gross inaccuracy of the criticisms make me question the motives of the critics.

    Offline Centroamerica

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    Phoenix sspx chapel update
    « Reply #6 on: March 27, 2016, 11:10:29 AM »
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  • Quote from: TheRealMcCoy
    At the vigil last night I was shocked at how empty the chapel was.  There were maybe 3 dozen people in a building that can easily fit 300.  Where is everyone?  On any given Sunday you would see at least a 100.  At Christmas that place was standing room only.



    A lot of people travel for Easter and so are at other chapels closer to their families. Some attend the morning Mass because they have children and family get togethers.
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    Offline Mark 79

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    Phoenix sspx chapel update
    « Reply #7 on: March 27, 2016, 11:33:17 AM »
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  • Quote from: Centroamerica
    Quote from: TheRealMcCoy
    At the vigil last night I was shocked at how empty the chapel was.  There were maybe 3 dozen people in a building that can easily fit 300.  Where is everyone?  On any given Sunday you would see at least a 100.  At Christmas that place was standing room only.



    A lot of people travel for Easter and so are at other chapels closer to their families. Some attend the morning Mass because they have children and family get togethers.


    Plain and simply the report is inaccurate.

    The Mass of the Paschal Vigil was PACKED.


    Offline ihsv

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    Phoenix sspx chapel update
    « Reply #8 on: March 27, 2016, 01:36:45 PM »
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  • Quote from: Mark 79
    Quote from: Centroamerica
    Quote from: TheRealMcCoy
    At the vigil last night I was shocked at how empty the chapel was.  There were maybe 3 dozen people in a building that can easily fit 300.  Where is everyone?  On any given Sunday you would see at least a 100.  At Christmas that place was standing room only.



    A lot of people travel for Easter and so are at other chapels closer to their families. Some attend the morning Mass because they have children and family get togethers.


    Plain and simply the report is inaccurate.

    The Mass of the Paschal Vigil was PACKED.


    I could be wrong, but I believe TRM was referring to St. Benedict's, the SSPX chapel in Louisville, KY, not the Phoenix chapel.
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    Online TheRealMcCoy

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    « Reply #9 on: March 27, 2016, 03:05:42 PM »
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  • Quote from: Mark 79
    Quote from: TheRealMcCoy
    At the vigil last night I was shocked at how empty the chapel was.  There were maybe 3 dozen people in a building that can easily fit 300.  Where is everyone?  On any given Sunday you would see at least a 100.  At Christmas that place was standing room only.



    Really? Did you leave before Mass to rush and post your criticism?

    I should have been more explicit.  I wasn't referring to Phoenix but rather my local chapel.  It was just a general statement about how Easter didn't seem to draw the crowds as Christmas did.

    I was there at 10:15 pm prior to the blessing of the New Fire and I left at 1:30 am after Mass was over.  I probably should have stayed later but the priest and everyone else left so I figured I should too.

    Sorry to have offended you Mark.  My apologies.  Have a blessed Eastertide.

    Online TheRealMcCoy

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    « Reply #10 on: March 27, 2016, 03:08:54 PM »
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  • Quote from: Centroamerica
    Quote from: TheRealMcCoy
    At the vigil last night I was shocked at how empty the chapel was.  There were maybe 3 dozen people in a building that can easily fit 300.  Where is everyone?  On any given Sunday you would see at least a 100.  At Christmas that place was standing room only.



    A lot of people travel for Easter and so are at other chapels closer to their families. Some attend the morning Mass because they have children and family get togethers.


    I didn't think about that.  Probably so and there was a Mass this morning.  It was my first time there so I was surprised.


    Offline PhxGroup

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    Phoenix sspx chapel update
    « Reply #11 on: March 27, 2016, 07:19:43 PM »
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  • Quote from: Mark 79


    The book store is open in Boyle Hall, smaller space, but approximately the same holdings. It is promised more space when the new church basement is built out.

     I cannot countenance a grossly erroneous assessment of a "dying community."

    Since Fr. Riccomini has been gone for months, how are the ushers to report to him?  Sorry to say so, but that comment and the gross inaccuracy of the criticisms make me question the motives of the critics.




    You are right the book store is now open in Boyle Hall
    A mere shadow of its former size and inventory and like everything that is asked for the answer is "When the basement is completed"

     you want statues ? you want a permanent book store bigger then a walk in closet ? You want stained glass windows ? you want a sound system so you can hear the Mass ?
    Well help pay for the basement first ...Blackmail plain and simple And how do we know this ?We  have heard that very thing given as an answer

    You are also right about Fr.R being gone for months
    The orders to report complainers was given well before he left, as a matter of fact The original order was to find members of the resistance and report them .They did such a good job it was expanded to include complainers
    I have been present as an usher took Fr. Wegner, District Superior aside to report someone.(as we are sure you know Fr.Wegner is there almost every Sunday)   This same usher has shooed away parishioners who were asking the Brothers questions about Fr.R  A member of our group was standing near by as the Brothers thanked this usher for his action

    We can go into each complaint just as deeply If you wish but take our word for it the church does not come off looking good

     





     

    If the SSPX is to survive, the future of the society lies in our past  

    Offline Mark 79

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    « Reply #12 on: March 27, 2016, 07:51:40 PM »
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  • Quote from: TheRealMcCoy
    Quote from: Mark 79
    Quote from: TheRealMcCoy
    At the vigil last night I was shocked at how empty the chapel was.  There were maybe 3 dozen people in a building that can easily fit 300.  Where is everyone?  On any given Sunday you would see at least a 100.  At Christmas that place was standing room only.



    Really? Did you leave before Mass to rush and post your criticism?

    I should have been more explicit.  I wasn't referring to Phoenix but rather my local chapel.  It was just a general statement about how Easter didn't seem to draw the crowds as Christmas did.

    I was there at 10:15 pm prior to the blessing of the New Fire and I left at 1:30 am after Mass was over.  I probably should have stayed later but the priest and everyone else left so I figured I should too.

    Sorry to have offended you Mark.  My apologies.  Have a blessed Eastertide.


    Thanks for the clarification.

    A happy and blessed Easter to you also.

    Offline Mark 79

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    Phoenix sspx chapel update
    « Reply #13 on: March 27, 2016, 08:13:02 PM »
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  • Quote from: PhxGroup
    Quote from: Mark 79


    The book store is open in Boyle Hall, smaller space, but approximately the same holdings. It is promised more space when the new church basement is built out.

     I cannot countenance a grossly erroneous assessment of a "dying community."

    Since Fr. Riccomini has been gone for months, how are the ushers to report to him?  Sorry to say so, but that comment and the gross inaccuracy of the criticisms make me question the motives of the critics.




    You are right the book store is now open in Boyle Hall
    A mere shadow of its former size and inventory and like everything that is asked for the answer is "When the basement is completed"

     you want statues ? you want a permanent book store bigger then a walk in closet ? You want stained glass windows ? you want a sound system so you can hear the Mass ?
    Well help pay for the basement first ...Blackmail plain and simple And how do we know this ?We  have heard that very thing given as an answer

    You are also right about Fr.R being gone for months
    The orders to report complainers was given well before he left, as a matter of fact The original order was to find members of the resistance and report them .They did such a good job it was expanded to include complainers
    I have been present as an usher took Fr. Wegner, District Superior aside to report someone.(as we are sure you know Fr.Wegner is there almost every Sunday)   This same usher has shooed away parishioners who were asking the Brothers questions about Fr.R  A member of our group was standing near by as the Brothers thanked this usher for his action

    We can go into each complaint just as deeply If you wish but take our word for it the church does not come off looking good



    As I said, I agree that there are legitimate problems, dare I say, big problems.  Like you, I cited the heavy-handed suppression of even polite questions or disagreements. Another big problem is Fr. Beck's school diktats, the absence of Catholic plays. Perhaps it is unique to me, but I think the sermons are a big problem both in delivery and content. A monotone drone of a barely audible sermon on an "airy-fairy" topic is no help to me.

    The departure of Fr. Riccomini was done in a fashion that would raise questions for anyone with a working brain. Tired??? Stressed??? When has even a "tired" and "stressed" pastor slipped away without the usual fête? Then there are the extensions—a month turned into a few months and that turned into never.  The timing coincided with the Post Falls debacle. What gives?

    With the Rothschild-Gutman endowment, I can only wonder why the big squeeze is put on parishioners to pay off the $2.5M sans basement.

    Anyway, despite all the problems I do see the parish growing.

    Can you hint which usher ratted on the critic?

    Offline Aleah

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    « Reply #14 on: March 27, 2016, 09:12:28 PM »
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  • Quote from: PhxGroup
    Quote from: Mark 79


    The book store is open in Boyle Hall, smaller space, but approximately the same holdings. It is promised more space when the new church basement is built out.

     I cannot countenance a grossly erroneous assessment of a "dying community."

    Since Fr. Riccomini has been gone for months, how are the ushers to report to him?  Sorry to say so, but that comment and the gross inaccuracy of the criticisms make me question the motives of the critics.




    You are right the book store is now open in Boyle Hall
    A mere shadow of its former size and inventory and like everything that is asked for the answer is "When the basement is completed"

     you want statues ? you want a permanent book store bigger then a walk in closet ? You want stained glass windows ? you want a sound system so you can hear the Mass ?
    Well help pay for the basement first ...Blackmail plain and simple And how do we know this ?We  have heard that very thing given as an answer

    You are also right about Fr.R being gone for months
    The orders to report complainers was given well before he left, as a matter of fact The original order was to find members of the resistance and report them .They did such a good job it was expanded to include complainers
    I have been present as an usher took Fr. Wegner, District Superior aside to report someone.(as we are sure you know Fr.Wegner is there almost every Sunday)   This same usher has shooed away parishioners who were asking the Brothers questions about Fr.R  A member of our group was standing near by as the Brothers thanked this usher for his action

    We can go into each complaint just as deeply If you wish but take our word for it the church does not come off looking good

     





     



    How is it blackmail to ask for payment of a debt that is owed? Isn't Phoenix 2 million in the hole or something like that?
     
    Have you offered to help out with anything?
    Have you asked why there are less evening Masses?
    Have you asked the brothers why you can't ask about the parish priest?
    Has anyone asked about why there aren't any devotions?
    Has anyone stopped you from re-starting the devotions?


    Please let us know-thanks!
    I am He who is- you are she who is not.