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Author Topic: Phoenix chapel debt  (Read 21990 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Phoenix chapel debt
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2018, 10:49:26 AM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on December 31, 2017, 04:07:20 AM
    I have written many times about that new $eminary, it should never have been even contemplated. They could have expanded the Winona seminary living quarters for $5 million nad have been done with it.

    Indeed.  Winona was a great place; I loved it there.  You could have added another wing to the building and have been done with it.  Except they probably anticipated an influx of hundreds of new seminarians once the deal was struck with Rome.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Phoenix chapel debt
    « Reply #31 on: January 02, 2018, 10:53:21 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on December 30, 2017, 10:07:48 PM
    According to this study by Dr. Carol Byrne, St. Pius X never called for congregational signing or "active participation" (Neither did he allow women in the choir - a feature of nearly every SSPX chapel in the world):

    Agreed.  In fact, St. Pius X made it clear that singing certain parts of the Mass were liturgical functions and that it was no more appropriate to women singing these parts than to have altar girls.  This had always been the practice of the Church.  That's why "Cantor" was one of the Minor Orders in the Eastern Churches (and the equivalent of Lector in the Roman Rite).  Might as well just have women deliver the First Reading as they do in the Novus Ordo.
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    Offline Town Crier

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    Re: Phoenix chapel debt
    « Reply #32 on: January 03, 2018, 11:11:13 AM »
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    • Quote from: 1st Mansion Tenant on December 31, 2017, 04:10:52 PM
    Does anybody remember a  cathedral or huge church the SSPX was soliciting donations for? It was a few years back. It was supposed to be a very beautiful structure that was like the great churches of the past to show the world the glory of God? There was a drawing of it on the letter they sent out. Does anybody know what became of that project?
    OLOS in Phoenix sent out fund raising form about that time and it was a drawing as you stated .
     The church never turned out the way the drawing depicted and yet we are told (if we ask) that the pledges are a binding contract   under the penalty of sin 
     They on the other hand have told us that they were completely justified in using the brick fund people prepaid for and the window   fund people prepaid for , for whatever they wanted 
     
    The brick fund BTW was for the brick walkways around the outdoor pieta to be etched with names  
     
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    "beautiful stained-glass windows which will bring the catechism of the church to life.":SSPX St Mary's KA. Window as they see fit Fund

    Offline MaterDominici

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    Re: Phoenix chapel debt
    « Reply #33 on: January 03, 2018, 01:05:35 PM »
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    • Quote from: 1st Mansion Tenant on December 31, 2017, 04:10:52 PM
    Does anybody remember a  cathedral or huge church the SSPX was soliciting donations for? It was a few years back. It was supposed to be a very beautiful structure that was like the great churches of the past to show the world the glory of God? There was a drawing of it on the letter they sent out. Does anybody know what became of that project?
    I'm sure it was the project in St. Mary's that you're remembering. The website Incred linked to hasn't provided an update since 2012, but this letter from Fr. Fullerton sums up where the project was at in Fall 2011. They had $1.3 million already raised for the project.


    Quote
    “With another school year off to a smooth start, I wish to dedicate this month’s letter to updating you on the New Immaculata Building Project.
    In March of 2010, I mentioned that we were in the process of hiring a new architectural firm for the purpose of designing a simpler, country Gothic style church that would honor the legacy of the original Immaculata, harmonize much better with the present architecture of our campus, and bring the project cost down to the original budget of $10 million dollars.  Following the advice of several professionals from our parish in St. Mary’s and from the parish in Denver, we decided to hire an architectural firm from nearby Topeka to redesign the project.
    After nearly a year of careful consideration and diligent work, I am happy to say that the new design is nearly complete.  Several pictures of these plans are included in this flyer, and final drawings will be available on our newly designed website by November.  
    The new design will meet the pressing needs of our large (over 3,100 faithful) and ever-growing parish.  With comfortable seating for 1,300 faithful, the new church will alleviate the current overcrowding at our 5 Sunday Masses.  Our elderly and disabled parishioners will find all levels of the new building accessible.  A crypt chapel with many side altars will provide our large priest community, as well as visiting priests, sufficient space to offer daily the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.  The basement will include extra classroom space for Academy and catechism classes.  
    In the next few months, once the schematic design phase is complete, we hope to develop a building plan that divides the project into phases, allows us to set concrete fundraising goals, and prepares us to break ground in a few years.  We will keep you informed of the progress.
    The task of fundraising is always difficult, more so in the present economic crisis.  Over the past years, your sacrifices, both spiritual and material, in behalf of our parish and schools, have enabled us to continue providing Catholic education for our youth.  We are extremely grateful for your past contributions that amount to nearly $1.3 million for the new church.  Thank you for continuing your support now and in the future.  Your generosity is helping us to make the restoration of all things in Christ a reality.  May God reward you abundantly.”

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    Offline Lunatik

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    Re: Phoenix chapel debt
    « Reply #34 on: February 05, 2018, 08:25:34 PM »
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    • I am rather stunned here the information that you are reporting. First off I have seen the counts of people attending Mass, and it has gone up  slightly; not a lot, but slightly. School enrollment while it did drop, is starting to go up again, but slightly. The bingo idea was brought up by a member of the Parish who I know, who was  trying to figure out ways to raise money for the parish. This idea came from no one else but him. Lack of volunteers? Please; I saw the sign up lists. There actually are so many that had signed up, that he started a reserve list of volunteers. Please do a better job of getting your facts straight. While some of is is very accurate, the rest is way of base.
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    Offline Town Crier

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    Re: Phoenix chapel debt
    « Reply #35 on: March 02, 2018, 09:18:05 AM »
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    • Quote from: Lunatik on February 05, 2018, 08:25:34 PM
    I am rather stunned here the information that you are reporting. First off I have seen the counts of people attending Mass, and it has gone up  slightly; not a lot, but slightly. School enrollment while it did drop, is starting to go up again, but slightly. The bingo idea was brought up by a member of the Parish who I know, who was  trying to figure out ways to raise money for the parish. This idea came from no one else but him. Lack of volunteers? Please; I saw the sign up lists. There actually are so many that had signed up, that he started a reserve list of volunteers. Please do a better job of getting your facts straight. While some of is is very accurate, the rest is way of base.
    You are ether misinformed or worse
    The school is going to lose upwards of 45 to 55 students over the summer ,this coupled with the 20% decreased projection for the 2017 school year does not look good for its remaining open.
    As for your statement concerning attendance.
    OLOS is down by over 100 members compared to the numbers when it first opened
    and even more compared to the numbers from the old church " yeah they really needed this new church huh ? "
    I afraid to say your opinions are just that, opinions. You provide no numbers or facts
     

    Now lets talk of their latest gimmick. That would be requiring Holy Name members to pay dues upwards of 50$ surely they the members are aware that money , just like the window and brick fund will disappear down the rabbit hole    
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    Offline Marlelar

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    Re: Phoenix chapel debt
    « Reply #36 on: March 02, 2018, 09:48:16 AM »
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    • I don't have any hard numbers but the church certainly "looks" fuller, although they may not actually be registered members.  I see an increasing number of casually dressed men and women in pants/shorts/leggings without a veil so they are obviously "drop-ins".  I think these increase in "snowbird" season.

    I am shocked that the HNS would charge DUES !  Why on earth do they need to pay dues?
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    Offline VeritasLuxMea

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    Re: Phoenix chapel debt
    « Reply #37 on: March 02, 2018, 03:32:42 PM »
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    • Quote from: Town Crier on March 02, 2018, 09:18:05 AM
    Now lets talk of their latest gimmick. That would be requiring Holy Name members to pay dues upwards of 50$ surely they the members are aware that money , just like the window and brick fund will disappear down the rabbit hole    

    Quote from: Marlelar on March 02, 2018, 09:48:16 AM
    I am shocked that the HNS would charge DUES !  Why on earth do they need to pay dues?
    I used to be an HNS member elsewhere.
    Dues, called "subscriptions" in the handbook are traditional. They are voluntary.
    The handbook I still have from 1932 has (on p. 85)

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    Members Subscriptions

    A small sum shall be contributed monthly, quarterly, or annually by each member of the Branch for its maintenance. The amount of the subscription shall be determined by the Executive Council. Members' subscriptions shall be paid to the Prefects of the Sections who shall hand an accurate account of all subscriptions received to the Treasurer, who shall make an entry of them in the Treasurer's Book.

    The members' subscriptions are purely voluntary, and men (candidates, or enrolled members) unable to pay shall not be debarred from membership.
    We typically gave $5 per month at the meeting when I was a member. That seemed very reasonable at the time, but if you think about it amounts to $60 per year, so more than what it sounds was proposed.
    But no one every checked up on who paid, nor was anyone criticized for not paying the dues. It was all done so no one was shamed for not contributing. Still, if one is getting a benefit, in justice, he owes something back.
    Such things are very typical for any parish organization that does active works, like the Legion of Mary (they have their "secret bag"), since the various activities cost something, and it's not the parish's duty to pay for the Charitible work of its parishoners.
    Without such monies how do you expect such groups to invite speakers to come for spiritual, historical, liturgical or doctrinal conferences? How are they to pay for the various things used like medals, pins, booklets, etc.? What about the stipend for the Masses they are meant to offer for members? How about the cost of pamphlets for their apostolic works? Fliers for the activity they are running?
    In short, it's not a gimmick. It's the traditional way such things were always done.
    Now, if they are requiring, as in "you can't be a member unless you cough up $50" then that is directly against the principles in the handbook. But then it's a far different thing to say "dues are $50 per year, if you can pay them" and "you can't become a member unless you pay $50".
    And who really can't afford $50 per year? If you can't do that, perhaps you need to spend the time you would be going to such meetings and work to get a bit more money.
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    Offline Marlelar

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    Re: Phoenix chapel debt
    « Reply #38 on: March 02, 2018, 04:17:37 PM »
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    • Quote
    Dues, called "subscriptions" in the handbook are traditional. They are voluntary.
    The handbook I still have from 1932 has (on p. 85)
    Thanks for clearing that up.  I was thinking more in terms of a pay-to-play system than voluntarily contributing.  Nothing wrong with asking for donations.
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    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Phoenix chapel debt
    « Reply #39 on: March 02, 2018, 10:54:41 PM »
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    • Let's pray that Ryan finds a seminary so he can become a Priest.  

    Let us pray for Phoenix and Virginia debts get paid off.   Let's pray that traditional Catholic groups obtain Historical Catholic Church properties owned by NO before they are sold off to pagans or worse.

    Let us pray that the SSPX and the whole Catholic Church kicks out evil and restores everything back to Jesus.  

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    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Marlelar

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    Re: Phoenix chapel debt
    « Reply #40 on: March 03, 2018, 12:52:51 PM »
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    • Who is "Ryan"?
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    Offline Lunatik

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    Re: Phoenix chapel debt
    « Reply #41 on: March 09, 2018, 03:14:11 PM »
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    • Town Crier: I do not think that I am misinformed or worse. When I spoke about the school enrollment it was before we had a few large families decide to leave and start their own school. So at this point yes, the enrollment will take a big drop. I am not sure where you are getting your numbers from on church enrollment, as I do not know how far back you are going in time. However I sometimes see the counts taken during Mass, and like I say, attendance has climbed, but ever so slightly. Yes I see the people walking in with no veils and in pants and they stick out like a sore thumb. Yet if possible I try to go up to them  and introduce myself and ask if they have any questions about the Mass of All Time. As far as the Holy Name Society, a vote was taken to get a general opinion of the members as to whether or not they should have dues. While most clubs collect dues to cover expenses, the HNS is not a club. The last I saw it appears that there will not be any dues collected to help cover expenses. I hope this helps to answer some of the questions the members of the 
    parish might have.
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    Offline Town Crier

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    Re: Phoenix chapel debt
    « Reply #42 on: March 09, 2018, 04:45:07 PM »
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    • I agree you are not misinformed It is worse than that .You are promoting a lie 
    and shielding a cover-up . You know that the numbers compared to the old church are way down, further more you know that we have lost over a hundred members who attended Mass at the old church and you split hairs about those who attend now .Many are irregular and infrequently participate in Parish activities or donate 
    The bingo , now if it was sooo popular with everyone and lists full of volunteers .Where is it ? 
     If you really want to answer questions members may (as you stated)have. explain where all our money went  that was PROMISED for the windows and church interior 
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    Offline Town Crier

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    Re: Phoenix chapel debt
    « Reply #43 on: March 09, 2018, 07:12:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: Lunatik on March 09, 2018, 03:14:11 PM
    When I spoke about the school enrollment it was before we had a few large families decide to leave and start their own school. So at this point yes, the enrollment will take a big drop. 

    This also is a untruth. You knew well before you posted about the 5 families leaving the school .you merely thought it was not common knowledge.  Here is a question for you as you seem to have little or no problem with the church or how it is run 
    Walton KY. has a church with about the same number of members as us 400-500 people.
    Why is it they have over 200 children in their school ? BTW starting next year we should have around 45

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    Offline Lunatik

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    Re: Phoenix chapel debt
    « Reply #44 on: March 13, 2018, 11:53:16 AM »
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    • Town Crier:

    I really do not know why you are telling me that I am promoting a lie. I know the numbers at the old church and again I will tell you that the enrollment is up, but only slightly. What do you think the attendance was last Sunday? Yes I agree with you that we probably have lost 100 members since the new church building. I also know that we have gotten new people that have started going to this parish also.  Yes people have left due to their not being happy with what is going on; that is for sure. Yet other people leave because they move away, for various reasons such as a new job. This is part of parish life. Is this not a true statement Town Crier or am I promoting a lie?

    As for the school, I will promise you that I did not know about the families leaving the school ( not the parish), until a few weeks after I had posted this. Now you either believe what I say, or you do not. Promoting a lie Town Crier?

    For the bingo: I again state that we have lists filled with volunteers, so many that we had a reserve list of volunteers. However we also have a new head priest and it is his decision now as to whether or not he wished for the parish to have bingo. So maybe you should ask him directly. I am sure he would give you an answer Town Crier.

    I  think you know the answers already  as to why the money was used on finishing the building  and not the windows like it should have been. I am not happy that this happened. I can only suggest that you go to Father McDonald and ask him yourself if you feel that you do not have the answers. Again he did not make this decision, as he was not here.

    Town Crier: I am only asking this; not to offend you, but you seem so unhappy at this parish. Why do you still attend Mass here? Maybe there is some other parish that you might be happier at.  Maybe there is a Resistance chapel that you could start going to, or some independent priest like Our Lady of Quito.

    Please Town Crier in the future do not accuse me of promoting lies about the parish, as I have nothing to gain by doing so. 


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