Author Topic: Phoenix chapel debt  (Read 18562 times)

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Offline Marlelar

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Phoenix chapel debt
« on: May 30, 2017, 01:16:49 AM »
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  • The Phoenix chapel is still having trouble paying its mortgage:

    SECOND COLLECTION FOR BUILDING FUND: JUNE 11 MORTGAGE PAYMENT AMOUNT $11,051 – APR. COLLECTION $9,932. CURRENT CHURCH DEBT: $2,428,205

    I'm wondering if the month is a typo and it should have been the MAY mortgage payment?

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Phoenix chapel debt
    « Reply #1 on: May 30, 2017, 11:21:28 AM »
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  • The Phoenix chapel is still having trouble paying its mortgage:

    SECOND COLLECTION FOR BUILDING FUND: JUNE 11 MORTGAGE PAYMENT AMOUNT $11,051 – APR. COLLECTION $9,932. CURRENT CHURCH DEBT: $2,428,205

    I'm wondering if the month is a typo and it should have been the MAY mortgage payment?

    Recently, the SSPX pulled some sleight-of-hand and transferred a substantial "nest egg" from the San Antonio chapel (St. Joseph's) to cover the debt on the new Phoenix property.

    A bit shady, if you ask me. Especially since St. Joseph's has needed a bigger building for at least 15 years now. They've been saving up their "building fund" all that time. The SSPX even has the parishioners praying a Novena to St. Joseph after every Mass, holding out hope they will get a building -- and now it will be 5 years minimum until they even get all their money paid back by Phoenix! Talk about cynical! Reminds me of Bishop Fellay abusing the piety of his Faithful (e.g., devotion to Fatima, the Rosary) to achieve his own political aims.

    Keep in mind: the average man-in-the-pews doesn't even know this. Only a few connected parishioners, and those involved with the finances of the chapel, know this.

    Just another reason why the SSPX is "done", and why I gave up on them. I'm glad I went off and started a new independent Traditional Catholic chapel from scratch. We're doing quite well in many ways.
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    Offline Marlelar

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    Re: Phoenix chapel debt
    « Reply #2 on: May 30, 2017, 05:21:35 PM »
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  • Recently, the SSPX pulled some sleight-of-hand and transferred a substantial "nest egg" from the San Antonio chapel (St. Joseph's) to cover the debt on the new Phoenix property.


    Holy Cow!  You're right, we ordinary folk had NO IDEA this had happened.  NOT a good move :fryingpan:

    Offline MaterDominici

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    Re: Phoenix chapel debt
    « Reply #3 on: May 30, 2017, 07:53:29 PM »
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  • I don't see any problem with this. Borrowing money across related organizations is generally a smart move.

    If the SSPX wanted to buy or build right now in San Antonio, having SA's "nest egg" lent out to another chapel is not going to stop them.

    IF they are dragging their feet on building in San Antonio due to problems in Phoenix, that would not be unreasonable either since much of the nature of those problems are not unique to Phoenix itself. It's not at all crazy to consider the bigger picture when making building decisions.
    "If I could only make the faithful sing the Kyrie, the Gloria, the Credo, the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei ... that would be to me the finest triumph sacred music could have, for it is in really taking part in the liturgy that the faithful will preserve their devotion. I would take the Tantum ...

    Offline Marlelar

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    Re: Phoenix chapel debt
    « Reply #4 on: May 30, 2017, 07:59:33 PM »
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  • It just seems like robbing Peter to pay Paul.  Now Phx is indebted to TWO groups, not just one.  Where will it stop?


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Phoenix chapel debt
    « Reply #5 on: May 30, 2017, 08:53:28 PM »
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  • I agree with Mater. As far as robbing Peter to pay Paul goes, aren't the SSPX one family? Are they charging interest on the loan? Does it mean less paid out in interest?

    Offline Marlelar

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    Re: Phoenix chapel debt
    « Reply #6 on: May 30, 2017, 09:26:47 PM »
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  • I agree with Mater. As far as robbing Peter to pay Paul goes, aren't the SSPX one family? Are they charging interest on the loan? Does it mean less paid out in interest?
    Since it has been done in secret we don't know if there is interest being paid to San Antonio or not. The rank and file, those PAYING the bills have no idea who they are indebted to and for how much.
    I understood that building funds were site specific.  At least that was what were told years ago when the fund raising started.  I never thought that one chapel might save up it's money just to "lend" it out to another chapel, I thought each chapel was suppose to be self supporting.  But again, financials are kept secret so we just don't know what rules they are playing by.  Inter-chapel loans may be common, I don't know.  But if the SSPX is "one family" why did Phx have to take out an enormous loan? Why didn't District just shuffle the funds around back then?
    It's the not knowing that is aggravating, and I think the decline in donations is a "vote of no confidence".  Why can't they just be up front about it all?

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Phoenix chapel debt
    « Reply #7 on: May 31, 2017, 12:17:43 AM »
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  • Marlelar, good points! It brought to my mind the thought that they may have been taking lessons on being a personal prelature from their big brother...


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Phoenix chapel debt
    « Reply #8 on: May 31, 2017, 12:04:19 PM »
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  • Just think... the xSPX spent 2 million bucks (financed by trads).

    And the real purpose for upgrading the Phoenix chapel is to be a portal for training newChurch priests.




    That's what you call "Max Krah" finance genius.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Lunatik

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    Re: Phoenix chapel debt
    « Reply #9 on: May 31, 2017, 01:32:26 PM »
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  • Whom let us see now. The collections for last month were short. Of course the collections at any church will vary from month to month. However what was not mentioned was the  fact that all of the  collections from the first quarter went over the amount needed. So this excess is used to cover the short month. So in reality, there was not really a shortage, just a short month correct?

    Offline songbird

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    Re: Phoenix chapel debt
    « Reply #10 on: May 31, 2017, 04:05:44 PM »
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  • Don't forget, the loss of parishioners next, and parishioners finding ways to make funny money.  IF new order takes over, maybe the debt will be paid for by the gov/t since new order supports gov't state and takes federal monies.  Very sad!


    Offline White Wolf

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    You guys are talking chump change.
    « Reply #11 on: June 03, 2017, 10:31:43 PM »
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  • Just consider how much money the SSPX sank into "Fullerton's Folly" in Missouri and "Fellay's Folly" in Virginia, two totally unnecessary construction projects in multiples of $1KK.  While the shennanigans are not as bad as N O (yet), it is beyond me why anybody would deposit $.02 in any SSPX coffer.
    Even in the good 'ol days the district headquarters spent money as though they were a branch of the Pentagon.  Oh, for the real good 'ol days when canons forbid priests to handle coinage, let alone have credit cards and bank accounts... 
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    Offline Town Crier

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    Re: Phoenix chapel debt
    « Reply #12 on: December 30, 2017, 06:53:01 PM »
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  • The fact is the SSPX hierarchy are at a loss as what to do about
    Phoenix
    The parishioner count keeps droping as does the school count
    They burn though priests like no other chapel in the SSPX
    The congregation is splinted into clicks  
    The donations are lower then they were at almost any time in the chapels history

    that is just a few of the reasons Fr.Wegner  sent his number 2 man to Phoenix ,to try and figure out what the problem is . He is to address other things like bringing bingo in to help pay the debt . It was stopped by 2 of the "insider families" and the lack of volunteers.  Or why they are talking about hiring a cleaning service to clean the church because of the lack of volunteers they all ready have to pay a  landscaping to maintain the lawns and plants. Or in an approved attempt to foster unity they spent 6000$ on choir books for the pews that go defiantly unused.or why the district receives more complaints by far about the goings on at Phoenix then any other chapel in North America. Fr. D sure has his work cut out for him  
    "beautiful stained-glass windows which will bring the catechism of the church to life.":SSPX St Mary's KA. Window as they see fit Fund

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Phoenix chapel debt
    « Reply #13 on: December 30, 2017, 09:08:23 PM »
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  • I wonder if Father Wegner ever understood "traditional Catholic public relations"?

    Our Lady of Sorrows "re-branded" and degenerated into a trad/liberal battleground.



    The only allure the SSPX has ever had was being humble, defending the Faith, priestly formations and the Tridentine Mass.


    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Phoenix chapel debt
    « Reply #14 on: December 30, 2017, 10:07:48 PM »
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  • The fact is the SSPX hierarchy are at a loss as what to do about
    Phoenix
    The parishioner count keeps droping as does the school count
    They burn though priests like no other chapel in the SSPX
    The congregation is splinted into clicks  
    The donations are lower then they were at almost any time in the chapels history

    that is just a few of the reasons Fr.Wegner  sent his number 2 man to Phoenix ,to try and figure out what the problem is . He is to address other things like bringing bingo in to help pay the debt . It was stopped by 2 of the "insider families" and the lack of volunteers.  Or why they are talking about hiring a cleaning service to clean the church because of the lack of volunteers they all ready have to pay a  landscaping to maintain the lawns and plants. Or in an approved attempt to foster unity they spent 6000$ on choir books for the pews that go defiantly unused.or why the district receives more complaints by far about the goings on at Phoenix then any other chapel in North America. Fr. D sure has his work cut out for him  
    Glad to hear the choir books are going unused!

    According to this study by Dr. Carol Byrne, St. Pius X never called for congregational signing or "active participation" (Neither did he allow women in the choir - a feature of nearly every SSPX chapel in the world):

    http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/f073_Dialogue_1.htm (See parts I - III)

    For a convenient list of all 63 (so far) installment titles, see here: http://sodalitium-pianum.com/tracking-the-history-of-liturgical-corruption/
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-

     

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