Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: bowler on December 16, 2013, 07:54:36 AM
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From two other threads:
.Would that Catholics today follow the ideological example of the great Fr. Rioult insofar as here he gives the example of Catholics being able to work together toward this august common goal, which is the preservation of the Catholic Faith.
Basically, whoever said that sedevacantism is among the Resistance to stay, is correct.
That issue is of little importance. You could have saved a lot of time by just saying that, since that is all you came here for.
What is important is all the souls living in adultery now due to the annulment industry which you participate in. The sin of the conciliar church annulment industry is all that one needs to see to realize why all of the bishops have lost their minds.
When the bishop told him some bazaar novelty, the now famous traditionalist, Fr. DePauw answered with that accent of his:
"You'll pardon me your eminence, but you've either lost the Faith, or you've lost your marbles".
Peter Vere is the author of the book - Annulment: 100 Questions and Answers for Catholics
All American Bishops have lost God's Grace because of their participation in the USA conciliar Church annulment scam. All wisdom comes from God. Without God's Grace we are blind. Peter Vere makes a living in the annulment racket. Until he repents for his participation in this abomination, he will remain a dumb guide, just like everyone else who participates in granting these bogus annulments.
"I do not speak rashly, but as I feel and think., I do not think that many priests are saved but that those that perish are far more numerous. The reason is that the office requires a great soul. For there are many things to make a priest swerve from rectitude, and he requires great vigilance on every side. Do you not perceive how many qualities a bishop must have that he may be apt to teach; patient towards the wicked, firm and faithful in teaching the Word? How many difficulties herein.
Moreover the loss of others is imputed to him. I need say no more. If but one dies without baptism, does it not entirely endanger his salvation? For the loss of one soul is so great an evil as no man can understand. If the salvation of one soul is of such importance that, for its sake, the Son of God became man and suffered so much, think of the penalty the loss of one soul will entail. (St. John Chrysostom, Third Homily, Acts of the Apostles)
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The Annulment Industry
Now the Spirit manifestly saith that in the last times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to spirits of error and doctrines of devils, (1Tim 4:1)
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He's also a fan of Francis' good thursday stunt.
https://www.facebook.com/dave.armstrong.798/posts/141701656007087
And of the opinion that Abp Lefebvre was guilty of schism.
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0072.html
Heck, he even authored the ridiculously titled "More Catholic than the pope", the title's premise being that somehow the pope per definition is the "most Catholic" person in the world.
Code red Neo-con alert: Attention everybody, this is not a drill
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vcg8qv3nees/TKq2QBOmzBI/AAAAAAAAEqc/Jx7-9sVY2Lw/s1600/defcon_1.gif)
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None of Peter Vere's opinions which are contrary to mine are of any importance to me. I have no animosity with people who disagree with me.
This thread is not about disagreeing with Peter Vere, it is about admonishing a sinner of the worst order. Peter Vere has taken upon himself the responsibility of Bishops, a GRAVE responsibility, and he has participated in the Bishops abomination. Hundreds of millions of people are living in adultery sanctioned by the Bishops! This is the WORST sin sanctioned (the Church is still against abortion and ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity) by the conciliar Church! It is the sure sign that they (the bishops of the conciliar Church) have lost the faith and/or their marbles.
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Hundreds of millions of people are living in adultery sanctioned by the Bishops!
I think your number must be high; there can't be hundreds of millions of people who were granted bogus annulments. Tens of millions, maybe.
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Some stats and reasons. Link (http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Item/470/annulment_nation.aspx#.Uq9kKdJy34d)
I agree with Bowler for the most part, these wretched "annulments" are nothing short of licensed adultery. But a brief glance at the stats shows a dramatic imbalance between the US and the rest of the world.
... the number of annulments granted annually in the United States soared from 338 in 1968, to 28,918 in 1974, to a peak of 63,933 in 1991. By 2004 the number had fallen to 46,330, and it fell even further, to 35,009, in 2007 ...
Despite this decline, the United States, with 5.9 percent of the world’s Catholics, still accounts for 60 percent of the Church’s 58,322 declarations of nullity (2007 statistics in the Vatican Secretariat of State’s Statistical Yearbook of the Church). Of the 35,009 declarations of nullity granted in the US, 79 percent were granted through the ordinary process, while 21 percent were granted through the docuмentary process.
The United States leads the world in declarations of nullity (with 35,009 in 2007) by a very large margin; the country with the next highest annulment rate—Italy—had only 2,625 that same year ... On the other hand, Africa, which has 14 percent of the world’s Catholics, accounts for a mere 0.9 percent of the Church’s declarations of nullity.
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Some stats and reasons. Link (http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Item/470/annulment_nation.aspx#.Uq9kKdJy34d)
I agree with Bowler for the most part, these wretched "annulments" are nothing short of licensed adultery. But a brief glance at the stats shows a dramatic imbalance between the US and the rest of the world.
... the number of annulments granted annually in the United States soared from 338 in 1968, to 28,918 in 1974, to a peak of 63,933 in 1991. By 2004 the number had fallen to 46,330, and it fell even further, to 35,009, in 2007 ...
Despite this decline, the United States, with 5.9 percent of the world’s Catholics, still accounts for 60 percent of the Church’s 58,322 declarations of nullity (2007 statistics in the Vatican Secretariat of State’s Statistical Yearbook of the Church). Of the 35,009 declarations of nullity granted in the US, 79 percent were granted through the ordinary process, while 21 percent were granted through the docuмentary process.
The United States leads the world in declarations of nullity (with 35,009 in 2007) by a very large margin; the country with the next highest annulment rate—Italy—had only 2,625 that same year ... On the other hand, Africa, which has 14 percent of the world’s Catholics, accounts for a mere 0.9 percent of the Church’s declarations of nullity.
A high rate of annulment requires 1) a sizable population of Catholics who retain the custom of marriage and 2) female empowerment. Europe has female empowerment but few Catholics (or any other native Europeans) who still get married.
Western female empowerment has gradually transformed marriage and child-bearing into a bond of legally enforced chattel slavery for men. Married women have new "rights" equivalent to that of a slave owner, invokable by recourse to the Family Court system. Feminist or behind-the-times clergymen do great harm whenever they facilitate the marriage of a gullible man to a modern-thinking woman. White US men fall behind Europeans in adjusting their behavior to the degradation of government-prescribed marriage.
Obviously, Catholic marriage is necessary for the continuation of the Church and nation. Perhaps a non-governmental private "covenant marriage" is a solution, but having children still leaves the door open for Family Court involvement. Even some otherwise Catholic wives occasionally drop threatening hints of divorce. If the husband response to such threats with fear, his wife will lose attraction and thereby become ever more likely to eventually file for divorce.
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The SSPX has no authority whatsoever to grant annulments. As a matter of fact, as I've said many times before, I believe they are cursed today precisely because they went into the business of granting annulments.
“Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it.” (St. Augustine)
"I do not speak rashly, but as I feel and think., I do not think that many priests are saved but that those that perish are far more numerous. The reason is that the office requires a great soul. For there are many things to make a priest swerve from rectitude, and he requires great vigilance on every side. Do you not perceive how many qualities a bishop must have that he may be apt to teach; patient towards the wicked, firm and faithful in teaching the Word? How many difficulties herein.
Moreover the loss of others is imputed to him. I need say no more. If but one dies without baptism, does it not entirely endanger his salvation? For the loss of one soul is so great an evil as no man can understand. If the salvation of one soul is of such importance that, for its sake, the Son of God became man and suffered so much, think of the penalty the loss of one soul will entail". (St. John Chrysostom Third Homily, Acts of the Apostles)
....The SSPX, in crisis of today's Novus ordo conciliar modernism and their plague of destroying the Sacrament of Marriage, along with their cotton-candy abuses of annulments, was forced by souls coming to them who are seeking the Sacrament of Marriage from them necessitated a preparation and an investigation....
Hence, "annulments", not by ordinary jurisdiction, but through the state of necessity is supplied to protect and to keep Holy the Sacrament of Marriage.
There is no supplied jurisdiction for the SSPX to provide annulments. They have no business granting annulments. Nothing else needs to be said. If someone wants an annulment, any SSPX priest can give them advice, and then they can go to the Novus Ordo and get an annulment.
Keep in mind that there were like 80 annulments a year WORLDWIDE (1952-1956) till the annulment dam broke in the 1970's and on,, and then it went to 35,000 to 63,000 per year just in the USA!
Do the math and tell me what are the chances of those 35,000- 63,000 having a valid annulment? (it's even less that 1/10 of 1%)
It is an abomination, and a perfect example of people seeking teachers according to their own desires:
For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears (2Tim 4:3)
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There is no supplied jurisdiction for the SSPX to provide annulments. They have no business granting annulments. Nothing else needs to be said. If someone wants an annulment, any SSPX priest can give them advice, and then they can go to the Novus Ordo and get an annulment.
An annulment is simply a judgment that the marriage never truly existed. It's not a dispensation, it's a judgment based on specific facts. If the facts are not there, there can be no annulment.
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Yeah, I was surprised to see y'all having civil conversation with Pete. I first became aware of him over a decade ago when he authored an article called 'More Catholic than the Pope -no more!' which was included in a book called 'Surprised by Truth'.
In it, he basically makes an argument from indefectibility. It's silly. I wish I had it to quote, but I got rid of it years ago.
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SJB wrote:
An annulment is simply a judgment that the marriage never truly existed. It's not a dispensation, it's a judgment based on specific facts. If the facts are not there, there can be no annulment.
Okay, I understand you a lot better now.
SJB, what is being argued is that the process has been corrupted. This means that some bad people are in charge of it and they are not following the rules. The 'facts' are usually matters of testimony, given to representative of a diocesan tribunal.
You seem to think that it's a matter of showing or not showing Baptismal certificates. No. When it goes to the tribunal, it is there for an attempted judgement of simluation of consent. This deals with the mental status of the people who attempted the marriage.
These are virtually always granted, after a waiting period to preserve the appearance of deliberation.
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Yeah, I was surprised to see y'all having civil conversation with Pete. I first became aware of him over a decade ago when he authored an article called 'More Catholic than the Pope -no more!' which was included in a book called 'Surprised by Truth'.
In it, he basically makes an argument from indefectibility. It's silly. I wish I had it to quote, but I got rid of it years ago.
Like many indultarians in the (more or less) public eye, Vere is short on facts and long on snake oil. Hence the red carpet treatment he's gotten here has been a real head-scratcher. In another thread I attributed the near sycophancy that has greeted him to the Oprah effect. Nothing else makes any sense to me, but I am open to evidence or insight or even innuendo pointing in other directions.
I get the sense, too, that he feeds off the energy of others, whether negative or positive, like something Captain Kirk encountered whilst making a pit stop in the constellation of Unobtainium. Ergo, the "set phasers on full, Spock" approach bowler has adopted may be counterproductive. We'll see, I suppose.
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The SSPX has no authority whatsoever to grant annulments. As a matter of fact, as I've said many times before, I believe they are cursed today precisely because they went into the business of granting annulments.
“Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it.” (St. Augustine)
"I do not speak rashly, but as I feel and think., I do not think that many priests are saved but that those that perish are far more numerous. The reason is that the office requires a great soul. For there are many things to make a priest swerve from rectitude, and he requires great vigilance on every side. Do you not perceive how many qualities a bishop must have that he may be apt to teach; patient towards the wicked, firm and faithful in teaching the Word? How many difficulties herein.
Moreover the loss of others is imputed to him. I need say no more. If but one dies without baptism, does it not entirely endanger his salvation? For the loss of one soul is so great an evil as no man can understand. If the salvation of one soul is of such importance that, for its sake, the Son of God became man and suffered so much, think of the penalty the loss of one soul will entail". (St. John Chrysostom Third Homily, Acts of the Apostles)
....The SSPX, in crisis of today's Novus ordo conciliar modernism and their plague of destroying the Sacrament of Marriage, along with their cotton-candy abuses of annulments, was forced by souls coming to them who are seeking the Sacrament of Marriage from them necessitated a preparation and an investigation....
Hence, "annulments", not by ordinary jurisdiction, but through the state of necessity is supplied to protect and to keep Holy the Sacrament of Marriage.
There is no supplied jurisdiction for the SSPX to provide annulments. They have no business granting annulments. Nothing else needs to be said. If someone wants an annulment, any SSPX priest can give them advice, and then they can go to the Novus Ordo and get an annulment.
Keep in mind that there were like 80 annulments a year WORLDWIDE (1952-1956) till the annulment dam broke in the 1970's and on,, and then it went to 35,000 to 63,000 per year just in the USA!
Do the math and tell me what are the chances of those 35,000- 63,000 having a valid annulment? (it's even less that 1/10 of 1%)
It is an abomination, and a perfect example of people seeking teachers according to their own desires:
For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears (2Tim 4:3)
bowler,
I noticed that you have imported only a small section of what I had written; which throws what I wrote out of context.
For clarity, here is the rest of what I wrote:
Machabees said:
As this is a topic that is off the Thread; however, it is necessary to explain what the Church has always taught on these matters.
Simply:
Annulments, in the view of the Novus Ordo, is truly an abomination.
Annulments, in view of the historical teaching of the Catholic Church, is based on the Sacrament of Marriage itself, Her Justice, and Her Mercy.
The Sacrament of Marriage is for the Church and for the common good of society.
The complexities of today’s modern day marriages between baptized and non-baptized souls, along with the intentions, is a matter of protecting the whole of the Sacrament of Marriage in the Church itself; not to abuse it. In other words, an “annulment” is not in the negative connotation, but in the positive of protecting the Sacrament of Marriage from any abuse. If a marriage does exist, it must be stated so. If a marriage never existed, it also must be stated so.
In our modern day speak, the word Annulment has pitifully been abused from the very ones who are supposed to protect the very Sacrament of Marriage.
The SSPX, in crisis of today's Novus ordo conciliar modernism and their plague of destroying the Sacrament of Marriage, along with their cotton-candy abuses of annulments, was forced by souls coming to them who are seeking the Sacrament of Marriage from them necessitated a preparation and an investigation.
In all marriage preparation, the Church commands that the priest look into the foundation and intention of the prospects to make sure the Sacrament of Marriage is clear and un-abused. It is a matter of Justice for the Church and for the couple to be prepared for the Sacrament; like any other Sacrament one wants to receive; especially, as with Holy orders. There is an investigation into the prospect so there will not be any abuse to the Sacrament and to the Church Herself.
Hence, "annulments", not by ordinary jurisdiction, but through the state of necessity is supplied to protect and to keep Holy the Sacrament of Marriage.
There is no other reason.
http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=28853&min=205&num=5
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We know people are not catechized properly, are taught a false religion, are growing up in broken homes,, many watch Hollywood/TV and have that as their only example of "marriage" why do you assume the annulments are bogus? It's likely many do not have a proper understanding or example of marriage before.
I've seen the annulment paperwork in two different diocese and it's not something you can just get rubber stamped by saying the spouse didn't take out the trash.
One thing with trads at least on this forum is concerning is the way I see posters jump to have the marriage annulled when someone posts of problems. Even if it is not a valid marriage, there should be an attempt to make it right including teaching the couple.
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The breakdown of Catholic marriages are the symptom of a much larger problem. If one is not diseased, then one has no symptoms.
The main reason for the breakdown in Catholic marriage along with so many other evils today is the long term absence of the lawful shepherds of the Church, along with public heretics usurping their offices.
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why do you assume the annulments are bogus? It's likely many do not have a proper understanding or example of marriage before.
I've seen the annulment paperwork in two different diocese and it's not something you can just get rubber stamped by saying the spouse didn't take out the trash.
Mainly, the suspicion comes from two things:
1.The very high percentage of marriages judged to be null.
This seems to indicate that it is nearly impossible to achieve a valid marriage in the Church at the present time. It seems this cannot logically be right, it is contradictory to our expectations of the plentitude of graces available in the sacraments.
2.The excessive reliance on interior, invisible, psychological state as evidence of the simluation of consent.
From the new Code:
Can. 1101 §1 The internal consent of the mind is presumed to conform to the words or the signs used in the celebration of a marriage.
§2 If, however, either or both of the parties should by a positive act of will exclude marriage itself or any essential element of marriage or any essential property, such party contracts invalidly.
Many people feel that excessive weight is given to §2 and very little is given to §1. In this way, the process is open to fraud from various sources.
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This is the WORST sin sanctioned (the Church is still against abortion and ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity) by the conciliar Church!
Adultery is a horrible sin, but it is very far from being the worst sin sanctioned by the Conciliar Church. The worst sins sanctioned by the Conciliar Church are sins against the First Commandment.
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We know people are not catechized properly, are taught a false religion, are growing up in broken homes,, many watch Hollywood/TV and have that as their only example of "marriage" why do you assume the annulments are bogus? It's likely many do not have a proper understanding or example of marriage before.
I've seen the annulment paperwork in two different diocese and it's not something you can just get rubber stamped by saying the spouse didn't take out the trash.
People today are better educated and have greater access to learning the truth than any generation ever. Do you think that they somehow are more ignorant , or are the only ignorant Catholics in the entire history of the Church? Your argument is just a cliché that people have repeated for so long that many now believe it, however, it is a ridiculous observation.
What is so difficult to understand about "till death do us part and for better or worse, and in sickness and health? Everybody in the world knows that Catholics marry for life.
This is all about bad will, about the will leading the intellect.
I repeat, 80 annulments per year Worldwide in the 1950's, compared to 35,000 to 63,000 after the 1970's just in the USA. People did not get stupid all of the sudden.
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In heaven, "there shall be joy before the angels of God upon one sinner doing penance" (Lk. xv. 10), then what happens whenever an unrpentant sinner does NOT do any penance?
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Peter Vere Annulment Lawyer Repent!
Or else the angels won't rejoice (etc.).
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This is the WORST sin sanctioned (the Church is still against abortion and ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity) by the conciliar Church!
Adultery is a horrible sin, but it is very far from being the worst sin sanctioned by the Conciliar Church. The worst sins sanctioned by the Conciliar Church are sins against the First Commandment.
I would concur that unmistakable public worship of false gods is the greater sin, however, since there are two Great Commandments: Love God, and Love thy neighbor as thyself for the love of God, and adultery violates them both inasmuch as it is opposed to the love of God and it is opposed to the love of neighbor, as well as being opposed to the 6th Commandment specifically ― and according to St. Thomas the sin against faith is the greatest sin and the sin against the First Commandment is of the same genus as the sin against faith; and for anyone to demean the sacrament of Marriage as modern annulments do is also a sin against faith because it opposes the traditional doctrine of the Church ― all-in-all, it's a pretty close call. To deny or to discount the reality of any marriage based on capricious or 'inconvenient' reasons is really tantamount to putting a false god before God, for it rejects the divine precepts of the Church as they were handed down to us in Sacred Tradition.
Therefore, when it is the ostensible Church allowing this abomination of capricious annulments to become commonplace in the last 53 years (since 1960) it seems to me that this public scandal is so closely related to the worship of a false god as to be equally offensive to God as would be the unmistakable public worship of false gods.
And anyone who is getting paid for promoting it bears the responsibility of the effects and implications of the sins of many whose lives are affected by this promotion of evil.
Such a one incurs a tremendous debt to God in temporal punishment due for their sin.
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Objectively speaking, it makes no difference if an annulment lawyer is told by a priest or a bishop or any such cleric that these new annulments are not improper, because if they are improper in the eyes of God and the cleric(s) is / are wrong, the sin is still the same, because it is a sin in the eyes of God, which is all that matters. The opinions of clerics are of no import, and if they are wrong opinions, anyone who listens to them and believes them and acts accordingly still offends God in the objective order, and therefore the sin is no less than it would have been had the cleric admonished the lawyer not to be involved and the lawyer had ignored that good advice. The difference is that in the former case there are two sinners, the erroneous cleric and the lawyer who believes his lies, whereas in the latter case there is only one sinner, the lawyer who ignores the good advice: be not involved with evil annulments. In either case, the lawyer sins and incurs the guilt of all the effects of all the persons whose lives are affected by the false annulments, which, in the broadest sense, is the entire population of the world. For what would it profit a man to gain the whole world if he were to suffer the loss of his soul?
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Objectively speaking, it makes no difference if an annulment lawyer is told by a priest or a bishop or any such cleric that these new annulments are not improper, because if they are improper in the eyes of God and the cleric(s) is / are wrong, the sin is still the same, because it is a sin in the eyes of God, which is all that matters. The opinions of clerics are of no import, and if they are wrong opinions, anyone who listens to them and believes them and acts accordingly still offends God in the objective order, and therefore the sin is no less than it would have been had the cleric admonished the lawyer not to be involved and the lawyer had ignored that good advice. The difference is that in the former case there are two sinners, the erroneous cleric and the lawyer who believes his lies, whereas in the latter case there is only one sinner, the lawyer who ignores the good advice: be not involved with evil annulments. In either case, the lawyer sins and incurs the guilt of all the effects of all the persons whose lives are affected by the false annulments, which, in the broadest sense, is the entire population of the world. For what would it profit a man to gain the whole world if he were to suffer the loss of his soul?
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God's Actual Grace speaks to EVERYONE and tells them what is right and what is wrong. Therefore, no one has any excuse. Moreover, I have to assume that Peter Vere may have received also Sanctifying Grace at some point before he started doing annulments, therefore, God spoke to him clearly.
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Pete is gone now. His proud and haughty spirit has been the cause of his fall from grace. First he proudly boasted that he scared away Fr. Somerville and now he's the one that has gone off hiding after he got exposed as a fraud and a con-man in the religious liberty/Demographics thread (http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=29092&min=66&num=3) and in this thread.
This man promotes spiritual genocide, the worst crime that can be committed on the face of this Earth. Mao and Stalin killed tens of millions of temporal bodies, religious liberty has killed hundreds of millions of immortal souls which will be damned for all eternity. And it turns up that he's a grenadier in Satan's army that is fighting a world war to annihilate the family, and compounding the sin even further, he helps destroy professing Catholic families!
If he is truly Catholic, I sincerely hope he subjects his mind to reality and he repents of his wicked sins that shouldn't even be thought about, let alone spread and promoted in public. On the other hand he might be a legitimate con-man/charlatan. The American Novus Ordo is filled with these guys, usually men who "converted" from protestantism and then sell books/do speaking tours for a living, they are essentially guys who don't want to compete in the "protestant market" and have opted to exploit the "Novus Ordo" market instead. Whether he's a Catholic that has been caught in the devils snares or whether he's a con-man, he needs to repent and do penance. God save his soul!
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By their deeds you shall know them.