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Author Topic: Padre Chazal Speaks About Bishop Bernard Tissier de Mallerais(SSPX)  (Read 15257 times)

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Offline MarcelJude

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    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Padre Chazal Speaks About Bishop Bernard Tissier de Mallerais(SSPX)
    « Reply #1 on: October 21, 2024, 02:12:22 PM »
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  • Those who criticize Bp. Tissier for not supporting the resistance should keep in mind his poor health. Even ten years ago, he was cutting back on demanding activities.  In the last seven or eight years, he had to carefully ration his energies. He did still perform Confirmations, but only every four to five years, and within the US and Canada.  
    He may have wanted to support the resistance but ultimately decided it better to semi-retire.  It’s easy to say what someone else should have done or should be doing. It’s quite another to actually experience it personally.  
    I’m saying, let’s cut him a break. Yes, we generally do limit our funeral sermon, if public, livestreamed, to speaking of the good things about the deceased.  Everyone knows he had weaknesses, failures, even sins, like everyone.  This isn’t canonizing him a saint.  Let’s pray for Bp. Tissier’s soul.
    Rather than critique him for what could have been, let’s have faith a bishop will be provided.  If the SSPX accepts to be absorbed into Rome, then God will provide some other way.  


    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: Padre Chazal Speaks About Bishop Bernard Tissier de Mallerais(SSPX)
    « Reply #2 on: October 21, 2024, 06:01:27 PM »
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  • Those who criticize Bp. Tissier for not supporting the resistance should keep in mind his poor health. Even ten years ago, he was cutting back on demanding activities.  In the last seven or eight years, he had to carefully ration his energies. He did still perform Confirmations, but only every four to five years, and within the US and Canada. 
    He may have wanted to support the resistance but ultimately decided it better to semi-retire.  It’s easy to say what someone else should have done or should be doing. It’s quite another to actually experience it personally. 
    I’m saying, let’s cut him a break. Yes, we generally do limit our funeral sermon, if public, livestreamed, to speaking of the good things about the deceased.  Everyone knows he had weaknesses, failures, even sins, like everyone.  This isn’t canonizing him a saint.  Let’s pray for Bp. Tissier’s soul.
    Rather than critique him for what could have been, let’s have faith a bishop will be provided.  If the SSPX accepts to be absorbed into Rome, then God will provide some other way. 

    I was surprised to hear that he was to come to Brazil for Confirmations. It was not meant to be, as he fell on the stairs about two weeks before the date and Bp. Fellay came instead.

    Either way, it is admirable that he was disposed to take a 12-hour flight over the Atlantic, considering his health. It seems that he was to go to neighbouring countries too, since Bp. Fellay said a requiem Mass for him from Chile.

    I think that he simply could not leave the society that Abp. Lefebvre founded, even if it was rotten. God gave him the grace to die before things get too ugly. May he rest in peace.

    Offline trento

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    Re: Padre Chazal Speaks About Bishop Bernard Tissier de Mallerais(SSPX)
    « Reply #3 on: October 23, 2024, 02:05:03 AM »
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  • Those who criticize Bp. Tissier for not supporting the resistance should keep in mind his poor health. Even ten years ago, he was cutting back on demanding activities.  In the last seven or eight years, he had to carefully ration his energies. He did still perform Confirmations, but only every four to five years, and within the US and Canada. 
    He may have wanted to support the resistance but ultimately decided it better to semi-retire.  It’s easy to say what someone else should have done or should be doing. It’s quite another to actually experience it personally. 
    I’m saying, let’s cut him a break. Yes, we generally do limit our funeral sermon, if public, livestreamed, to speaking of the good things about the deceased.  Everyone knows he had weaknesses, failures, even sins, like everyone.  This isn’t canonizing him a saint.  Let’s pray for Bp. Tissier’s soul.
    Rather than critique him for what could have been, let’s have faith a bishop will be provided.  If the SSPX accepts to be absorbed into Rome, then God will provide some other way. 

    Indeed, it is rather tasteless for Fr. Chazal to equate Bishop Tissier to Pontius Pilate. This is what I call bitter zeal.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Padre Chazal Speaks About Bishop Bernard Tissier de Mallerais(SSPX)
    « Reply #4 on: October 23, 2024, 08:58:38 AM »
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  • I accidently posted this on another Bp. Tissier thread. 

    Just my opinion, but I think that Fr. Chazal gives a fair and balanced view of Bp. Tissier. He says good things about Bp. Tissier, but the fact is, is that Bp. Tissier was against the Resistance, and when Fr. Chazal went to him to express his concerns about the new direction of the SSPX, Bp. Tissier told him to "just be quiet!" 

    Fr. Chazal gives a reminder that Bp. Tissier wrote the best biography of the Archbishop that we have today. I've read it; it's excellent. But the truth is, Bp. Tissier didn't speak up about the SSPX new direction of seeking reconciliation with Rome. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Padre Chazal Speaks About Bishop Bernard Tissier de Mallerais(SSPX)
    « Reply #5 on: October 23, 2024, 09:51:35 AM »
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  • Yeah, whoever edited the video took that one negative thing he had to say out of context and used it for the summary at the beginning of the video ... suggesting that the entire talk was a hit piece of Bishop Tissier.

    I think this video should be edited so as not to make that the focal point in the introduction.

    Offline Infirmus

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    Re: Padre Chazal Speaks About Bishop Bernard Tissier de Mallerais(SSPX)
    « Reply #6 on: October 23, 2024, 12:35:51 PM »
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  • Those who criticize Bp. Tissier for not supporting the resistance should keep in mind his poor health. Even ten years ago, he was cutting back on demanding activities.  In the last seven or eight years, he had to carefully ration his energies. He did still perform Confirmations, but only every four to five years, and within the US and Canada. 
    He may have wanted to support the resistance but ultimately decided it better to semi-retire.  It’s easy to say what someone else should have done or should be doing. It’s quite another to actually experience it personally. 
    I’m saying, let’s cut him a break. Yes, we generally do limit our funeral sermon, if public, livestreamed, to speaking of the good things about the deceased.  Everyone knows he had weaknesses, failures, even sins, like everyone.  This isn’t canonizing him a saint.  Let’s pray for Bp. Tissier’s soul.
    Rather than critique him for what could have been, let’s have faith a bishop will be provided.  If the SSPX accepts to be absorbed into Rome, then God will provide some other way. 
    Of course pray for him, but he became very silent and in the end he could have done more to offset the SSPX push for Rome.
    RIP 

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Padre Chazal Speaks About Bishop Bernard Tissier de Mallerais(SSPX)
    « Reply #7 on: October 23, 2024, 12:42:15 PM »
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  • Of course pray for him, but he became very silent and in the end he could have done more to offset the SSPX push for Rome.
    RIP

    What's interesting is Father Chazal's explanation of +Tissier's reaction when Fr. Chazal told him about the Modernistic compromising of +Fellay, where +Tissier responded angrily that he had "ten times" the evidence for the same thing, but then yelling at him to "be silent".  When someone exhibits anger like that, it's often a sign that their conscience is troubled and they're attempting to silence that conscience.  We all know that PRIOR to 2012, and according to Fr. Chazal, even for a couple years after that, he held Resistance principles, whereby he rejected any notion of a practical agreement, insisting that the Conciliar Church delenda est, so to speak.  I like that slogan, based on the old Roman slogan about Carthage, Ecclesia Conciliaris Delenda Est, and that nothing short will do and constitute victory in the fight.  In any case, +Tisser did opposte the new orientation in principles, so the fact that he not only stayed silent but then angrily silenced and shut down Fr. Chazal's appeals to him does suggest he was compromising and that his conscience wasn't at ease with it.


    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: Padre Chazal Speaks About Bishop Bernard Tissier de Mallerais(SSPX)
    « Reply #8 on: October 23, 2024, 02:59:48 PM »
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  • Around 2012, just after the fallout of the General Chapter, I went to Connecticut for a retreat given by +Zendegas and the Dominicans.  One of the Dominicans read an email from +Tissier in which Tissier said he 'was ready to make a deal with Rome'.  I don't know if he ever changed his mind but that was hot off the press at the time.  That is unfortunate but +Tissier was also instrumental in getting +Lefebvre to put down his retirement and create a seminary.  Without +Tissier who knows where things would be now.  Thank you +Tissier and +Lefebvre.

    + RIP +

    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Padre Chazal Speaks About Bishop Bernard Tissier de Mallerais(SSPX)
    « Reply #9 on: October 24, 2024, 04:12:28 AM »
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  • Indeed, it is rather tasteless for Fr. Chazal to equate Bishop Tissier to Pontius Pilate. This is what I call bitter zeal.
    Agree.  Pontus Pilate?   That’s going too far.   Let’s cut Fr. Chazal a break, as well.   He exaggerates to make a point.    Perhaps he expresses his personal disappointment that +Bp. Tissier did not step into Archbishop Lefebvre’s shoes.  It would seem that it would be best to have a United ‘Resistance’ United under a single bishop.  But God didn’t allow that.  He knows what is best.  
    I always think active persecution will come and the lack of a visible organization will prove an advantage in escaping imprisonments and being put to death.  If no one bishop, no priest, sister, brother, or layperson hasn’t knowledge of the others, it I see much harder to shut down.  Think of the resistance movements in any war.  The Catholic Resistance may need to operate as the Viet Kong.  
    May we have patience as we wait upon Him.

    Offline NishantXavier

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    Re: Padre Chazal Speaks About Bishop Bernard Tissier de Mallerais(SSPX)
    « Reply #10 on: October 24, 2024, 04:33:44 AM »
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  • Around 2012, just after the fallout of the General Chapter, I went to Connecticut for a retreat given by +Zendegas and the Dominicans.  One of the Dominicans read an email from +Tissier in which Tissier said he 'was ready to make a deal with Rome'.  I don't know if he ever changed his mind but that was hot off the press at the time.  That is unfortunate but +Tissier was also instrumental in getting +Lefebvre to put down his retirement and create a seminary.  Without +Tissier who knows where things would be now.  Thank you +Tissier and +Lefebvre.

    + RIP +
    THIS. Thank you to Bishop +Tissier and to Archbishop +Lefebvre for their many years of faithful service. May their souls rest in peace.


    Offline Meg

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    Re: Padre Chazal Speaks About Bishop Bernard Tissier de Mallerais(SSPX)
    « Reply #11 on: October 24, 2024, 10:07:27 AM »
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  • Agree.  Pontus Pilate?  That’s going too far.  Let’s cut Fr. Chazal a break, as well.  He exaggerates to make a point.    Perhaps he expresses his personal disappointment that +Bp. Tissier did not step into Archbishop Lefebvre’s shoes.  It would seem that it would be best to have a United ‘Resistance’ United under a single bishop.  But God didn’t allow that.  He knows what is best. 
    I always think active persecution will come and the lack of a visible organization will prove an advantage in escaping imprisonments and being put to death.  If no one bishop, no priest, sister, brother, or layperson hasn’t knowledge of the others, it I see much harder to shut down.  Think of the resistance movements in any war.  The Catholic Resistance may need to operate as the Viet Kong. 
    May we have patience as we wait upon Him.

    It depends on how you view Pontius Pilate. I don't think he was evil at all. He certainly didn't want to crucify Our Lord. At least he tried to reason with the Jєωs who wanted Our Lord to be crucified. But they wouldn't back down. So Pilate gave in, in order to keep the peace and not lose his job.

    Bp. Tissier gave in by not standing up against the new direction of the SSPX. Nowadays, the leadership of the SSPX hardly ever mentions the huge problems of Modernism and Vatican ll. They are neutered in this regard. If Bp. Tissier had stood firm, as Bp. Williamson did, would the SSPX be in the situation they are today?
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline MiserereMei

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    Re: Padre Chazal Speaks About Bishop Bernard Tissier de Mallerais(SSPX)
    « Reply #12 on: October 24, 2024, 11:11:57 AM »
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  • The problem with this line of thinking - and it is no small problem, to say the least - is that the Catholic Church is by its nature a visible organization.  A scattered group of individuals who don't know each other - but who mistakenly believe they have the faith - is not the Catholic Church; and it wouldn't even be the Catholic Church if they did have they faith. 

    There is a crisis of faith in the Traditional movement specifically, and it consists in the fact that almost no one knows what the Catholic Church is.  And what the Catholic Church definitely isn't is a scatterd group of individuals who do not belong to a visible organization with four marks - the same visible organization that has existed as such since the time of the Apostles.  The promises of Christ - "the gates of hell shall not prevail," etc., pertain to the visible organization.

    The nature of the Church itself - not what is required to be a member of it, since every heretic will mistkenly think he meets that definition - is what every Traditional Catholic should immediatly begin studying.
    Well... Christian Japanese went 2 centuries without contact with the visible organization. That didn't disqualified them from being Catholic.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Padre Chazal Speaks About Bishop Bernard Tissier de Mallerais(SSPX)
    « Reply #13 on: October 24, 2024, 11:52:49 AM »
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  • I reply to my downvoter, I say: the only thing worse than not knowing what the Church is, is hearing what it is and rejecting it. 

    Given that the Catholic Church has been occupied by Modernist heretics (Modernism is a heresy) for 60+ years, it's difficult to know where the Church is exactly. 

    Is the Church as it exists in Rome the true Church? I think that it is, though given that the Modernists have changed so many things about the Catholic faith, it often isn't recognizable as having the Catholic Faith. If there were no modernist Crisis, we wouldn't have to debate the issue. 

    Bp. Tissier de Mallerais once wrote a study of this situation. He wrote that the occupation of the Church by Modernists is like a parasite that feeds off of a host. The Modernist parasite is not the Catholic Church, but it can only exist by feeding off of the True Church, and in this sense it does still retain or absorb some of the Catholic Faith. So in effect, there are two churches in one body. Just his opinion, but it makes some sense to me. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: Padre Chazal Speaks About Bishop Bernard Tissier de Mallerais(SSPX)
    « Reply #14 on: October 24, 2024, 11:59:03 AM »
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  • It depends on how you view Pontius Pilate. I don't think he was evil at all. He certainly didn't want to crucify Our Lord. At least he tried to reason with the Jєωs who wanted Our Lord to be crucified. But they wouldn't back down. So Pilate gave in, in order to keep the peace and not lose his job.

    How can it be that he was not evil, when he was giving a death sentence to a man he knew for certain that was innocent? He was literally sending people to death to save his job.