Author Topic: Outstanding Sermon on Sedevacantism by Fr. Pfeiffer (Read 41132 times)

curioustrad · « **Reply #225 on:** May 07, 2014, 07:32:43 PM »

Quote from: Ambrose

I call it as I see it.

You do indeed !

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #226 on:** May 07, 2014, 07:33:24 PM »

Quote from: curioustrad

Quote from: Mithrandylan
Ambrose, he's a troll. And apparently the best that can come to Fr. P's defense. In fact, who knows, he might even be a Menzingen plant to put a few nails in a few coffins, haha. Fr. Pfeiffer comes out with rash and ridiculous claims, most users can only stay silent and the few who can say anything only make the rest who are staying silent waiting for the storm to blow over look like fools, inasmuch as loudmothed and rash individuals make their cohorts in the group look like idiots when no one speaks up to correct him.

What paranoia ! No - I'm Fr. Rostand trying to score a few points before I head to Menzingen !

I actually like you, CT. You make me laugh. That's why I berate you, because you can take it. I have no idea if you're real or not, but I think we could have beers together.

curioustrad · « **Reply #227 on:** May 07, 2014, 07:35:32 PM »

Quote from: Mithrandylan

Quote from: curioustrad
Quote from: Mithrandylan
Ambrose, he's a troll. And apparently the best that can come to Fr. P's defense. In fact, who knows, he might even be a Menzingen plant to put a few nails in a few coffins, haha. Fr. Pfeiffer comes out with rash and ridiculous claims, most users can only stay silent and the few who can say anything only make the rest who are staying silent waiting for the storm to blow over look like fools, inasmuch as loudmothed and rash individuals make their cohorts in the group look like idiots when no one speaks up to correct him.

What paranoia ! No - I'm Fr. Rostand trying to score a few points before I head to Menzingen !

I actually like you, CT. You make me laugh. That's why I berate you, because you can take it. I have no idea if you're real or not, but I think we could have beers together.

ROFL - I'm sure we would get on famously - yes I can take it. A sense of humor is essential when dealing with real clowns like Bergoglio.

Pete Vere · « **Reply #228 on:** May 07, 2014, 07:36:05 PM »

Quote from: Mithrandylan

The Archbishop worked with other sedes anyways, so it's just a moot point.

I disagree.

Granted, what you say is probably true and has long been understood by most sedes (and a handful of Ecclesia Dei trads like myself).

However, in light of the R&R mythology of Mgr Lefebvre as a consistent and principled anti-sede, his public cooperation with a sedevacantist Bishop de Castro Mayer -- especially in the matter of the liturgical consecration of bishops -- raises several questions.

Ambrose · « **Reply #229 on:** May 07, 2014, 07:37:48 PM »

Quote from: curioustrad

Quote from: Ambrose
Quote from: Pete Vere
Quote from: curioustrad
No the sede shock troops have both feet in the resistance to prop up their emptying chapels and tired and worn thin arguments. I deal with ex-sedes quite frequently and the hogwash with which they have been brainwashed is amazing ! (Speaking as an ex sede myself - that is)

You really believe the Resistance in its current state will be able to compete one-on-one with the sedes?

Francis has done more to convince Catholics of the state of sedevacante, than any of us. If they have a problem with this, they need to ask Francis to at least give the appearance of being a Pope.

Whether they like it or not, Francis is the leading sedevacantist promoter in the world right now.

Now there you have me - he is a good poster boy - isn't he ?

By all appearances, this "Pope" of yours is actively working to finish off what Paul VI started, the destruction of Catholicism. He is the principle of disunity and faithlessness.

But, despite all of that, according to SSPX, he is still St. Peter's Successor.

curioustrad · « **Reply #230 on:** May 07, 2014, 07:39:03 PM »

Quote from: Pete Vere

Quote from: Mithrandylan
The Archbishop worked with other sedes anyways, so it's just a moot point.

I disagree.

Granted, what you say is probably true and has long been understood by most sedes (and a handful of Ecclesia Dei trads like myself).

However, in light of the R&R mythology of Mgr Lefebvre as a consistent and principled anti-sede, his public cooperation with a sedevacantist Bishop de Castro Mayer -- especially in the matter of the liturgical consecration of bishops -- raises several questions.

Mythology yes ! Quite a bit to spare in this post. Do you think that John Kerry was channeling the Arch when he said: "I voted for the war before I voted against it ?"

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #231 on:** May 07, 2014, 07:39:51 PM »

Quote from: Pete Vere

Quote from: Mithrandylan
The Archbishop worked with other sedes anyways, so it's just a moot point.

I disagree.

Granted, what you say is probably true and has long been understood by most sedes (and a handful of Ecclesia Dei trads like myself).

However, in light of the R&R mythology of Mgr Lefebvre as a consistent and principled anti-sede, his public cooperation with a sedevacantist Bishop de Castro Mayer -- especially in the matter of the liturgical consecration of bishops -- raises several questions.

Pete,

There have been threads on here even recently where I was under the impression that most of those who viewed the Archbishop as being against sedevacantism (as in, being anti-sedevacantism as a matter of principle) came to realize this was not the case.

If those people still believe that he was some crusader against the sedevacantist theory, then I would agree that it is unsurprising that people who try to reinforce that view.

I wrote what I wrote thinking that they already realized that this is the ABL presented by the NSSPX, not the ABL who actually existed.

Pete Vere · « **Reply #232 on:** May 07, 2014, 07:41:22 PM »

Quote from: curioustrad

Mythology yes ! Quite a bit to spare in this post. Do you think that John Kerry was channeling the Arch when he said: "I voted for the war before I voted against it ?"

Sorry, who is John Kerry?

curioustrad · « **Reply #233 on:** May 07, 2014, 07:44:00 PM »

Quote from: Pete Vere

Quote from: curioustrad
Mythology yes ! Quite a bit to spare in this post. Do you think that John Kerry was channeling the Arch when he said: "I voted for the war before I voted against it ?"

Sorry, who is John Kerry?

A democrat American politician who ran for President of the USA famous for talking out of both sides of his mouth (and thereby losing his presidential bid) Also the current US Secretary of State under Obama.

Ambrose · « **Reply #234 on:** May 07, 2014, 07:44:49 PM »

Quote from: Pete Vere

Quote from: Mithrandylan
The Archbishop worked with other sedes anyways, so it's just a moot point.

I disagree.

Granted, what you say is probably true and has long been understood by most sedes (and a handful of Ecclesia Dei trads like myself).

However, in light of the R&R mythology of Mgr Lefebvre as a consistent and principled anti-sede, his public cooperation with a sedevacantist Bishop de Castro Mayer -- especially in the matter of the liturgical consecration of bishops -- raises several questions.

As you rightfully say, it's mythology. They follow a narrative, and hold to it like gospel truth. Look at this issue of Bp. Castro de Mayer, it has been a long accepted fact that he was a sedevacantist, but it doesn't fit the narrative.

The same with Archbishop Lefebvre, it is commonly known that he saw sedevacantism as a real possibility, and many believed that he was most likely privately a sedevacantist by the mid-80's. But again, it does not fit the narrative.

The narrative must be defended at all costs.

Pete Vere · « **Reply #235 on:** May 07, 2014, 07:45:11 PM »

Quote from: Mithrandylan

I wrote what I wrote thinking that they already realized that this is the ABL presented by the NSSPX, not the ABL who actually existed.

Mithrandylan, you mention the ABL presented by the SSPX led by Bishop Fellay. But is the ABL presented by the Reistance any less mythologized?

I do agree with you, btw, that ABL was likely much more tolerant and undecided on the sedevacantist question than the R&R will often admit officially.

curioustrad · « **Reply #236 on:** May 07, 2014, 07:46:57 PM »

Quote from: Ambrose

Quote from: Pete Vere
Quote from: Mithrandylan
The Archbishop worked with other sedes anyways, so it's just a moot point.

I disagree.

Granted, what you say is probably true and has long been understood by most sedes (and a handful of Ecclesia Dei trads like myself).

However, in light of the R&R mythology of Mgr Lefebvre as a consistent and principled anti-sede, his public cooperation with a sedevacantist Bishop de Castro Mayer -- especially in the matter of the liturgical consecration of bishops -- raises several questions.

As you rightfully say, it's mythology. They follow a narrative, and hold to it like gospel truth. Look at this issue of Bp. Castro de Mayer, it has been a long accepted fact that he was a sedevacantist, but it doesn't fit the narrative.

The same with Archbishop Lefebvre, it is commonly known that he saw sedevacantism as a real possibility, and many believed that he was most likely privately a sedevacantist by the mid-80's. But again, it does not fit the narrative.

The narrative must be defended at all costs.

A point which no-one has proved is an historical fact (for some here didn't Bishop Williamson have some trouble with this kind of thinking ?)

Pete Vere · « **Reply #237 on:** May 07, 2014, 07:47:09 PM »

Quote from: curioustrad

Quote from: Pete Vere
Quote from: curioustrad
Mythology yes ! Quite a bit to spare in this post. Do you think that John Kerry was channeling the Arch when he said: "I voted for the war before I voted against it ?"

Sorry, who is John Kerry?

A democrat American politician who ran for President of the USA famous for talking out of both sides of his mouth (and thereby losing his presidential bid) Also the current US Secretary of State under Obama.

And he's SSPX?!?

curioustrad · « **Reply #238 on:** May 07, 2014, 07:49:28 PM »

Quote from: Pete Vere

Quote from: curioustrad
Quote from: Pete Vere
Quote from: curioustrad
Mythology yes ! Quite a bit to spare in this post. Do you think that John Kerry was channeling the Arch when he said: "I voted for the war before I voted against it ?"

Sorry, who is John Kerry?

A democrat American politician who ran for President of the USA famous for talking out of both sides of his mouth (and thereby losing his presidential bid) Also the current US Secretary of State under Obama.

And he's SSPX?!?

It was a joke the point of which escaped you. You were skirting the issue of the Lefebvre dualism over the sede issue and I attempted to draw a humorous parallel with a well known American politician famous for the same problems with "duality".

hollingsworth · « **Reply #239 on:** May 07, 2014, 07:52:31 PM »

PV:

Quote

For the umpteenth time, Sean, I am not a sedevacantist.

I recognize Francis as the valid pope, the Novus Ordo as both a valid and licit liturgy, and the Second Vatican Council as a valid ecuмenical council.

I must make at least one more contribution to this exceedingly dull and unenlightened thread. I am not a sedvacantist either. But I do consider the NO as intrinsically evil. V2 was the greatest evil, so much so, in fact that it makes little difference whether it was "valid" or not. Like ABL, I believe the conciliar church to be an illegitimate parallel church, overseen and run by "anti-Christs" and clerics who have "left the Faith." But in order to avoid the possiblility of not going to Heaven, I must reluctantly concede that Francis is the pope and do my best to "unite" myself to him. This is an insane declaration, I know, but then, we live in an insane period. Traditional Catholicism, IMO, is on life supports.