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Author Topic: Our Lady Of Sorrows Phoenix update  (Read 13771 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

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Re: Our Lady Of Sorrows Phoenix update
« Reply #45 on: August 05, 2019, 11:14:41 PM »
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  • Did the SSPX's seminary instructors drastically change within the past few years (since the opening of their seminary in Virginia?)?

    Not sure, except that I know none of the ones who were there when I was there are still there.  Fr. Peek was the last.

    But that's less a problem than the program for formation.

    Fr. Rutledge once announced (search CI for "Militant Anti-Resistance Sermon in St. Paul, MN"), in attempting to refute the Resistance in 2013, that the seminary still has all the same books as when he was there.

    Well, he was ordained in 2009, and was in the first class of all-LeRoux priests.

    But if the books and classes were the same, the spirit was completely different:

    No more anti-modernist spiritual conference 3 days/week; that was the first casualty, which went out the door with +Williamson.

    The new formation was all about virtue, not combat.

    Meanwhile, the old hats sense the change, and go along or leave, so what is left is comprehensive metamorphosis into something very close to the FSSP.

    Identical, really, except for the certain validity of orders.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Geremia

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    Re: Our Lady Of Sorrows Phoenix update
    « Reply #46 on: August 06, 2019, 01:25:23 PM »
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  • But if the books and classes were the same, the spirit was completely different:
    No more anti-modernist spiritual conference 3 days/week; that was the first casualty, which went out the door with +Williamson.
    Seems similar to what happened to ++Lefebvre's seminary professor Fr. Le Floch.
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    Offline HOOLIGAN4HIRE

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    Re: Our Lady Of Sorrows Phoenix update
    « Reply #47 on: August 06, 2019, 03:52:01 PM »
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  • Fr. Haynos is leaving to teach at the Seminary and it wasn't by his request.  He is needed at the Seminary as a teacher.

    Offline Town Crier

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    Re: Our Lady Of Sorrows Phoenix update
    « Reply #48 on: August 06, 2019, 06:23:33 PM »
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  • Fr. Haynos is leaving to teach at the Seminary and it wasn't by his request.  He is needed at the Seminary as a teacher.
    Well if that is the case it just proves what I have been saying in regards to the SSPX district doing what they want regardless of what they say or promise and how little they think of the parishioners of OLOS. I am of the opinion that were we still the cash cow we once were they would look elsewhere for a priest to teach at the seminary BUT due to no fault of our own we were bled dry by unscrupulous contractors and broken promises and no longer of any value 
    "beautiful stained-glass windows which will bring the catechism of the church to life.":SSPX St Mary's KA. Window as they see fit Fund

    Offline Lunatik

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    Re: Our Lady Of Sorrows Phoenix update
    « Reply #49 on: August 06, 2019, 07:21:30 PM »
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  • Well Town Crier there is not much to think over as you said. Again not in order, but I feel I must respond. 

    I stand corrected, over the last years at the old church building we did have three Masses. You are correct. I forgot. The count for the three Masses was still at about 375.
    I still stand buy my counts in the mid part of spring with an attendance as high as 650. Again I saw the counts. It always drops to a lower count in the summer with vacations and the snow birds taking off. So I still say attendance and donations, are creeping up, not jumping up, just creeping up. I think you have to look at a 12 month overall time frame and not several months. I am not sure what is going to happen if some of the larger families decide to jump over this school issue. Then we can expect a drop in both; that is for sure. I also wanted to let you know that the attendance at the high Mass this week was 238 not 175. Again, I asked. Also wanted to state that when  I talked to Father Haynos, that he told me to my face that he did not want to transfer and asked not to go. 
     And for you Hooligan:
    Is maith an rud ata a ra agat agus ta suil agam go gcoinneoidh tu an dearcadh dearfach suas. Tuigimgo bhfuilfadhbanna againn ach ta na barulacha diultacha ag cur isteach  ar a bhfuilimid uilig ag irraidh a bhaint amach!


    Offline Town Crier

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    Re: Our Lady Of Sorrows Phoenix update
    « Reply #50 on: August 07, 2019, 12:47:33 AM »
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  •  I talked to Father Haynos, that he told me to my face that he did not want to transfer and asked not to go.

     Your probably right about the transfer of Fr. Haynos .I was told that the Superior General had been involved and I was also told that he was unhappy here .My assumption was that the district having told us there would be no transfers Fr.Haynos contacted the Superior General in order to facilitate his transfer.I was wrong
    This further proves what I have been saying all along  the SSPX district doing what they want regardless of what they say or promise and how little they think of the parishioners of OLOS. 
    "beautiful stained-glass windows which will bring the catechism of the church to life.":SSPX St Mary's KA. Window as they see fit Fund

    Offline HOOLIGAN4HIRE

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    Re: Our Lady Of Sorrows Phoenix update
    « Reply #51 on: August 07, 2019, 03:33:42 PM »
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  • The Priory has stated that Fr. Haynos' move came at the direction on Menzingen and that Fr. Wegner actually asked that Fr. Haynos get to remain at OLOS, but was refused.

    Lunatik -  Go raibh maith agat!  Go mbimis an Tiarna Maith leat! 

    Offline Town Crier

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    Re: Our Lady Of Sorrows Phoenix update
    « Reply #52 on: August 09, 2019, 04:05:46 PM »
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  • The Priory has stated that Fr. Haynos' move came at the direction on Menzingen and that Fr. Wegner actually asked that Fr. Haynos get to remain at OLOS, but was refused.

    Lunatik -  Go raibh maith agat!  Go mbimis an Tiarna Maith leat!
    Hmmm 
    so your saying the priory told YOU about an internal conflict within the SSPX over the transfer of a priest ? Because that particular fact was never made mention of in the bulletin nor from the pulpit . Are you that well acquainted with the priory that they divulge that kind of information ? or are you just using the priory to legitimize your opinion
    "beautiful stained-glass windows which will bring the catechism of the church to life.":SSPX St Mary's KA. Window as they see fit Fund


    Offline Town Crier

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    Re: Our Lady Of Sorrows Phoenix update
    « Reply #53 on: August 10, 2019, 01:00:24 AM »
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  • Town Cry Baby: You redundant remarks about the church building, and how ugly it is and how you feel that we were cheated and blackmailed is tiring. No, it is not something that needs to be forgotten, but we get it it Town Cry Baby and we need to address other issues.
    So my remarks are redundant are they ? Well I think they need repeating over and over until something is done , until the situation is addressed by those who caused it and rectify it. You say it is something that should not be forgotten and yet that is exactly what you are doing by telling me and others to move on to other issues. This is impossible to do when the district it its endeavor to raise money for its new church in St, Marys Kansas has embarked on a plan almost identical to the one they used in Phoenix just a bit more polished .As we see here in just one small example.
    Windowmakers Guild
    100 donors at $10,000 to $24,000
    ($167 to $400 monthly)
    Help purchase the beautiful stained-glass windows which will bring the catechism of the church to life.
    Recommended for young singles with established jobs and couples with grown children
    Recognition:
    -Receive a special commemorative Windowmakers Guild item
    -A Mass for your intentions offered on the Immaculata’s altar for 30 days
    -Have name displayed in special recognition in the Immaculata

    That bears repeating I think
    "beautiful stained-glass windows which will bring the catechism of the church to life."
    What about bringing the Catechism to life in OUR church Lunatic ? 
    "beautiful stained-glass windows which will bring the catechism of the church to life.":SSPX St Mary's KA. Window as they see fit Fund

    Offline HOOLIGAN4HIRE

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    Re: Our Lady Of Sorrows Phoenix update
    « Reply #54 on: August 11, 2019, 02:15:16 PM »
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  • Hmmm
    so your saying the priory told YOU about an internal conflict within the SSPX over the transfer of a priest ? Because that particular fact was never made mention of in the bulletin nor from the pulpit . Are you that well acquainted with the priory that they divulge that kind of information ? or are you just using the priory to legitimize your opinion
    Actually, I said "Priory" because that information came from OLOS.  Fr. McFarland said this directly from the pulpit when he announced Fr. Haynos' upcoming departure.  Father said this at both Masses that day.  

    Offline Town Crier

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    Re: Our Lady Of Sorrows Phoenix update
    « Reply #55 on: August 11, 2019, 04:23:04 PM »
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  • Actually, I said "Priory" because that information came from OLOS.  Fr. McFarland said this directly from the pulpit when he announced Fr. Haynos' upcoming departure.  Father said this at both Masses that day.  
    Your right , the Prior did say from the pulpit that Fr. Haynos is leaving BUT at no time did he give any of the details you shared .You are splitting hairs in order to divert the subject ,that being your post detailing a internal conflict between District and the Superior General and how you came by that information 
    I guess it does not matter as I agree almost everything you post but one must wonder when you take the time to go to such lengths to avoid answering a question  
    "beautiful stained-glass windows which will bring the catechism of the church to life.":SSPX St Mary's KA. Window as they see fit Fund


    Offline confederate catholic

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    Re: Our Lady Of Sorrows Phoenix update
    « Reply #56 on: August 11, 2019, 04:49:23 PM »
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  • He like myself are Irish, everything needs to be embellished or it aint worth sayin
    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Our Lady Of Sorrows Phoenix update
    « Reply #57 on: August 11, 2019, 05:08:19 PM »
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  • He like myself are Irish, everything needs to be embellished or it aint worth sayin
    He's Texan Irish, where tall tales are told.
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline Town Crier

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    Re: Our Lady Of Sorrows Phoenix update
    « Reply #58 on: August 11, 2019, 06:11:29 PM »
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  • He like myself are Irish, everything needs to be embellished or it aint worth sayin
    I can live with that
    "beautiful stained-glass windows which will bring the catechism of the church to life.":SSPX St Mary's KA. Window as they see fit Fund

    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Our Lady Of Sorrows Phoenix update
    « Reply #59 on: August 12, 2019, 12:19:32 AM »
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  • So my remarks are redundant are they ? Well I think they need repeating over and over until something is done , until the situation is addressed by those who caused it and rectify it. You say it is something that should not be forgotten and yet that is exactly what you are doing by telling me and others to move on to other issues. This is impossible to do when the district it its endeavor to raise money for its new church in St, Marys Kansas has embarked on a plan almost identical to the one they used in Phoenix just a bit more polished .As we see here in just one small example.
    Windowmakers Guild
    100 donors at $10,000 to $24,000
    ($167 to $400 monthly)
    Help purchase the beautiful stained-glass windows which will bring the catechism of the church to life.
    Recommended for young singles with established jobs and couples with grown children
    Recognition:
    -Receive a special commemorative Windowmakers Guild item
    -A Mass for your intentions offered on the Immaculata’s altar for 30 days
    -Have name displayed in special recognition in the Immaculata

    That bears repeating I think
    "beautiful stained-glass windows which will bring the catechism of the church to life."
    What about bringing the Catechism to life in OUR church Lunatic ?
    $167 to $400 per month?  For young singles with “established” jobs and couples with grown children?  Does the SSPX think these two groups of people are likely to have $10,000 to $24,000 to donate in one year’s time?  I’m not sure what planet they’re on or what was in their drink while coming up with this sum!  
    I do not know of anybody in either category well off enough to make such a donation.  The young people making large sums are surely paying off college loans, and the couples with adult children are easing onto a fixed income or are still working full-time to pay off the mortgage and probably helping out the adult children who'd otherwise not be married and having children. Young adults working at jobs that don’t require post high school education are unlikely to live on their own, much less be able to donate $10 to $24 K.  Recent empty nesters are unlikely not to be helping their adult kids.  If they’re single in the US, they’re paying for their medical insurance until age 27!  
    I’m 60, a “spinster!”🧵 working 60+ hours a week, and just making ends meet in an established job.  
    $167 week would mean I’d be sleeping in the chapel with the lovely windows. 
    The people most likely to be able to make large donations are those who came into adulthood from right after WWII through about 1971 or 1972.  If you graduated from college during the recessions of the 70s or 80s, you’re likely making substantially less in 2019 than those just a little before or after.  Those who came of age in the mid 1990s to early 2000s are the young adults, the infamous millennials.  After that came the housing crisis which, despite what government officials say about availability of jobs, those of this generation are forced to work multiple low-paying jobs or work at year’s long unpaid internships by day and earn what they can at night.
    When I think of the regular Mass goers at my old chapel, I come up with not one young working single with a secure, well-paying job.  Most were living at home while going to school and working for minimum wage or a little above.  Many of these stopped coming to Mass after finishing high school. Two couples with grown children come to mind as potential donors.  They both had two children apiece having come late to tradition, and were from long-time wealthy families in the area.  Both were in their early 70s and retired.  
    There was a similar program at the chapel for a massive capital improvement project.  People made pledges in the hundreds of thousands, but when seven years went by with only one repair made, the money stopped flowing.  Answers were demanded and not given.  Where did the money go?  God knows. The priory cut back to Sunday Masses only, then one Sunday Mass from three, no more HDO Masses, no more First Fridays or Saturdays, Retreats were cut by a third despite there being more priests, then the priests limited sick calls and last rites to official members.  People voted with their pocketbooks and then with their feet.  The chapel sold half its land and is a shadow of its former self.  It’s populated by Indult types, those who sometimes like the old-fashioned Mass, either from early childhood or as a novelty.  I’m not judging these people, for we’re all at different stages on our way, hopefully, to Heaven.  There’s no more sense of a Catholic community.  You go to Mass with your family, maybe have coffee and a roll with your family, and you leave.  Those who come alone are left alone, even when trying to be friendly and getting to know others.  Most of the people don’t want to get involved.  Example, there used to be a very large and active Rosary group.  Now, there’s nothing!  Same thing for the Soc. of Christ the King...no longer exists.  Those available and with the ability to lead are deceased or too old.  The middle aged and young with families are working long hours to exist.  They’re now the working class or working poor, the latter especially if they have many children.  Formerly, the majority of the families were solidly middle, upper middle, and even well-to-do.  The demographics of the area has changed radically over the last 20 years, not only financially, but ethnically and racially.  Catholics are more likely to be Spanish or Filipino than White.  The surrounding neighborhood is Spanish, Filipino, Jamaican, and to the north, Muslim.  Whites drive in for Mass and drive out.  Few neighborhood Catholics attend.  In fact, they are definitely unwanted.  Many chapel people cannot distinguish between Spanish and Filipino and presume everyone is illegal and on welfare.  Not exactly conducive to building tradition!  Those who welcome them become victims of gossip, detraction, slander, and worse.  
    The building looks dumpy, the work that was done is already falling apart.  There’s cracked masonry, broken slate on the stairs, mildew on the north facing side, and the rug is unraveling, creating a fall hazard for elderly or handicapped.  My mother who, if she goes to Mass, attends the novus ordo, agreed once to try The TLM.  When she saw the broken slate and unsteady handrail, she told me to take her home.  I notified the priory on Monday, was promised a call from a coordinator which never came.  I took a picture and mailed it to the priory with a letter to the prior, but received no reply.  By then, I’d already stopped attending due to other more serious issues.  
    My gut tells me that there was something spiritually amiss way back at the beginning of the SSPX in the United States, maybe other places as well.  Why does every US chapel suffer from the same problems?  Lack of financial transparency and cliques?  (Cliques are called factions in Scripture.)  
    Does anyone care to comment upon why or where those two sins gained entry?  (Please, no names of persons, places unless it is widely known to the trad. public.)