Author Topic: Our Lady of Sorrows, Phoenix AZ  (Read 7248 times)

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Offline Marlelar

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Our Lady of Sorrows, Phoenix AZ
« on: October 03, 2015, 12:16:56 AM »
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  • I just noticed on their website that Our Lady of Sorrows calls itself a South Phoenix Catholic Community.

    Funny, I thought we were a TRADITIONAL Catholic Church.  I've only seen NO parishes refer to themselves as a "Catholic Community", never traditional churches.

    It also says:  "Our Lady of Sorrows is a Catholic community that offers a complete life centered around the Latin Mass and the traditions of the Faith."

    I think "traditions OF the faith" is different from "THE traditional faith", which is actually what we do, well we used to anyway. :cry:

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    Offline ilpadrino

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    « Reply #1 on: October 03, 2015, 05:34:32 AM »
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  • Do not be surprised by the actions and words used in connection to the Phoenix Church. It's a "smile for the camera" operation, and the "community" mentioned in the description got ample representation on screen. It should be noticed that only 2 of the 5 priests stationed there were used for speaking purposes(the 2 youngest ones), and only 1 other for "stock footage" while offering Mass. To be sure, the building is very nice, but do not over-look the den of vipers that lies hidden in the threshold.


    Offline Stubborn

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    « Reply #2 on: October 03, 2015, 05:55:38 AM »
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  • Thank you for this post Marlelar as it certainly does sound just like NO speak.

    This is a good example of 99% of the sermons at my chapel over the last three years or so. It's not like what they are saying is wrong, but what they are saying and the way they say it is perfectly acceptable to all NOers every where. All but the most tepid of condemnations of the NO have all but vanished.

    It's as if they are trying to fool NOers into joining or something, I don't know how to explain it exactly but they are going about this in a way that demonstrates their true desire is for union with the conciliar church.

    For a small gain they travel far; for eternal life many will scarcely lift a foot from the ground. - Thomas A Kempis

    Offline hugeman

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    « Reply #3 on: October 03, 2015, 10:07:16 AM »
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  • Quote from: Stubborn
    Thank you for this post Marlelar as it certainly does sound just like NO speak.

    This is a good example of 99% of the sermons at my chapel over the last three years or so. It's not like what they are saying is wrong, but what they are saying and the way they say it is perfectly acceptable to all NOers every where. All but the most tepid of condemnations of the NO have all but vanished.

    It's as if they are trying to fool NOers into joining or something, I don't know how to explain it exactly but they are going about this in a way that demonstrates their true desire is for union with the conciliar church.



    It's all part of the re-branding program. the whole aim is to trick N.O.'s catholics (little c) into thinking the SSPX is their place (which it, now, really is); while at the same time holding onto the Roman Catholics  (aka traditionalists), making them think the SSPX is their place.  the SSPX now has just what the Archbishop observed that the New Church had:  a false religion, a false worship. false sacraments-- only the appearances of Catholicism.

    Offline buddy

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    « Reply #4 on: October 03, 2015, 06:37:50 PM »
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  • I live one mile away from the chapel and no longer attend.

    The reason for they are being so appealing  to the public is that they have put themselves into a $5 million hole that they are trying desperately get themselves out of. They started building when they had just over a half million promised but in cash.  They justified it by saying the codes were about to change which would've made the cost prohibitive (as if it wasn't already).  It reminded me of Luke 11:35.

    Approximately half of the congregation that was attending in Sept 2012 when they started the new building either left or were expelled from the chapel.


    Offline Henry101

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    « Reply #5 on: October 03, 2015, 07:27:55 PM »
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  • I live very close to this chapel and can provide some details.
    It refers to itself as a "community" precisely because the chapel grounds houses a large school, a large retreat center, dormitories for the people on the retreats, and a large priory that services parts of Colorado, California, Arizona, and Texas.

    The chapel lives the Faith as good as could possibly be. They had an ordination ceremony last week as well that was denounced by the Ordinary of the diocese. +Fellay went ahead irregardless. There has already been 3 babies baptized in the chapel as well.  The church will attract many faithful from all over the Phoenix area and many people will be converted to the Faith.

    All this knitpicking on the details is very disturbing and pharisee-like. Whats next? Is someone going to complain that the tabernacle veil the wrong color? Did Father mispronounce the "Asperges me" on Sunday? Or did they not capitalize the word "traditional" on their website?

    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #6 on: October 03, 2015, 08:19:09 PM »
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  • Quote from: Henry101
    I live very close to this chapel and can provide some details.
    It refers to itself as a "community" precisely because the chapel grounds houses a large school, a large retreat center, dormitories for the people on the retreats, and a large priory that services parts of Colorado, California, Arizona, and Texas.

    The chapel lives the Faith as good as could possibly be. They had an ordination ceremony last week as well that was denounced by the Ordinary of the diocese. +Fellay went ahead irregardless. There has already been 3 babies baptized in the chapel as well.  The church will attract many faithful from all over the Phoenix area and many people will be converted to the Faith.

    All this knitpicking on the details is very disturbing and pharisee-like. Whats next? Is someone going to complain that the tabernacle veil the wrong color? Did Father mispronounce the "Asperges me" on Sunday? Or did they not capitalize the word "traditional" on their website?


    They sure suckered you in.

    Most of us with eyes to see know how to recognize Novus Ordo -- even when they have a "plausible alibi" when someone calls them on it.

    You can't deny novus ordo flavor...even if they ARE technically a "community". That's beside the point. That isn't Trad language. Period. No one is pulling the wool over my eyes.

    P.S. There's a bit of a story behind that "...and Texas". You pass over it, but you fail to acknowledge that the San Antonio chapel, started in 1975, used to be served by the Houston, TX priory for decades. Houston is 3 1/2 to 4 hours away BY CAR. Now the San Antonio chapel is being served out of Phoenix BY PLANE. Why?

    Because Phoenix is "in the hole" for their new building, and they need to milk the San Antonio cash cow to help pay for it (NOTE: internally, a mission chapel does "pay" the priory for sending a priest. Money IS moved around in this way.) Bingo! Plus the monthly "Priory" second collection will now go to the Phoenix priory.
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    Offline Henry101

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    « Reply #7 on: October 03, 2015, 08:47:16 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Quote from: Henry101
    I live very close to this chapel and can provide some details.
    It refers to itself as a "community" precisely because the chapel grounds houses a large school, a large retreat center, dormitories for the people on the retreats, and a large priory that services parts of Colorado, California, Arizona, and Texas.

    The chapel lives the Faith as good as could possibly be. They had an ordination ceremony last week as well that was denounced by the Ordinary of the diocese. +Fellay went ahead irregardless. There has already been 3 babies baptized in the chapel as well.  The church will attract many faithful from all over the Phoenix area and many people will be converted to the Faith.

    All this knitpicking on the details is very disturbing and pharisee-like. Whats next? Is someone going to complain that the tabernacle veil the wrong color? Did Father mispronounce the "Asperges me" on Sunday? Or did they not capitalize the word "traditional" on their website?


    They sure suckered you in.

    Most of us with eyes to see know how to recognize Novus Ordo -- even when they have a "plausible alibi" when someone calls them on it.

    You can't deny novus ordo flavor...even if they ARE technically a "community". That's beside the point. That isn't Trad language. Period. No one is pulling the wool over my eyes.

    P.S. There's a bit of a story behind that "...and Texas". You pass over it, but you fail to acknowledge that the San Antonio chapel, started in 1975, used to be served by the Houston, TX priory for decades. Houston is 3 1/2 to 4 hours away BY CAR. Now the San Antonio chapel is being served out of Phoenix BY PLANE. Why?

    Because Phoenix is "in the hole" for their new building, and they need to milk the San Antonio cash cow to help pay for it (NOTE: internally, a mission chapel does "pay" the priory for sending a priest. Money IS moved around in this way.) Bingo! Plus the monthly "Priory" second collection will now go to the Phoenix priory.



    Mr. Mathew,
    Are you really criticizing the money handling of the OLS community after all the threads that have popped up in recent weeks regarding the embezzlement accusations of resistance chapels?
    Irregardless, yes, I know Menzingen has proven itself illegitimate in handling relations with Rome and keeping alive the vision of Mons. Lefevbre. However, arguing about these tiny details of chapels or priories is pitiful and counterproductive. If you attend the chapel and hear Fr. Frank speak, you'll now that he a holy man that has his days full with spiritual direction, running a school and a retreat center.

    Also, the Houston priory still exists and supplies priests for Texas. However, there are times that OLS sends priests to El Paso in the western part of Texas. This has nothing to do with finances, but just convenience.



    Offline MaterDominici

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    « Reply #8 on: October 03, 2015, 08:56:33 PM »
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  • Quote from: Henry101
    If you attend the chapel and hear Fr. Frank speak,


    I did literally laugh out loud when reading this conversation about how N.O. or not this priory is and then hearing you refer to your priest by his first name.

     :laugh2:
    "If I could only make the faithful sing the Kyrie, the Gloria, the Credo, the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei ... that would be to me the finest triumph sacred music could have, for it is in really taking part in the liturgy that the faithful will preserve their devotion. I would take the Tantum ...

    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #9 on: October 03, 2015, 09:01:17 PM »
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  • Quote from: Henry101
    If you attend the chapel and hear Fr. Frank speak, you'll now that he a holy man that has his days full with spiritual direction, running a school and a retreat center.


    You have got to be kidding me. Truth really is stranger than fiction. You can't make this stuff up.

    FR. FRANK?  Did I hear you correctly?

    You do realize, of course, that in the Novus Ordo they refer to their priests by their first name "Fr. James", "Fr. Frank", "Fr. John" and so forth. In the Traditional world, we use the traditional, more formal mode of addressing them "Fr. Smith", "Fr. McDaniels", "Fr. O'Callaghan" and so forth.

    The fact that you are calling him "Fr. Frank" -- the neo-SSPX is really making some progress on their way to the Novus Ordo!
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    Offline MaterDominici

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    « Reply #10 on: October 03, 2015, 09:05:53 PM »
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  • Not all N.O. priests go by their first name. In fact, most of the ones I knew did not. But, it is certainly a stereotype associated with the Novus Ordo, hence why I thought it funny.
    "If I could only make the faithful sing the Kyrie, the Gloria, the Credo, the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei ... that would be to me the finest triumph sacred music could have, for it is in really taking part in the liturgy that the faithful will preserve their devotion. I would take the Tantum ...


    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #11 on: October 03, 2015, 09:23:35 PM »
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  • Quote from: Henry101

    Mr. Mathew,
    Are you really criticizing the money handling of the OLS community after all the threads that have popped up in recent weeks regarding the embezzlement accusations of resistance chapels?


    1. It's Matthew with 2 T's, like the Evangelist.
    2. Embezzlement of resistance chapels? I don't know what the heck you're talking about.
    3. Am I? You bet, sir. The only thing you can point to is a loan dispute between Fr. Voigt and Pablo. But even if there were some wrongdoing involved there, "Two wrongs don't make a right". And besides, I'm not a supporter of Fr. Pfeiffer or his group (Our Lady of Mount Carmel, or SSPX Marian Corps) anyhow, so I'm not even being hypocritical here. The Resistance is many times larger than Fr. Pfeiffer's small group of 2 priests.

    A group as large and professional as the neo-SSPX (tm) doesn't do anything randomly or by accident.

    Before this year, it was unheard of for the San Antonio chapel to be serviced by a priory outside of Texas, like we're some kind of backwoods Alaskan mission or something. The San Antonio chapel has about 200 - 250 parishioners. And we have a priory less than 4 hour drive from here, in Dickinson, TX (right outside Houston).

    Just look on the map at how close Houston is (a few inches to the right), and how far away Phoenix is. Convenience has NOTHING to do with it. It's much more expensive (total) for them to fly a priest in every week, rather than drive a few hours. But for the Phoenix chapel, which is reimbursed, it is advantageous. The real losers in this deal are the parishioners at St. Joseph's Chapel in San Antonio. It's tough to save up money for the new chapel they need when they're forking out money for unnecessary plane tickets every week.

    In my opinion, they should give up on the SSPX as I have, and place their destiny back in God's (and their own) hands.

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    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #12 on: October 03, 2015, 09:25:10 PM »
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  • Quote from: MaterDominici
    Not all N.O. priests go by their first name. In fact, most of the ones I knew did not. But, it is certainly a stereotype associated with the Novus Ordo, hence why I thought it funny.


    There's also a stereotype that Germans make good engineers, and that black people like basketball.

    Both stereotypes happen to be true.

    It's not just a stereotype. I've heard it with my own ears plenty of times.
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    Offline ChurchCat7

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    « Reply #13 on: October 03, 2015, 09:35:27 PM »
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  • my my my I find it so interesting that up until the new church (built with the Novus Ordo stamp of approval )in Phoenix was finished there was almost no mention of our parish(I went way back in the threads to see) and almost everyone with some thing negative to say including myself is a parishioner or former parishioner
    ........guess that sterile ,empty echo chamber has everyone in a bad mood    

    "God gives us minds and our minds are meant to discover the truth and until we discover the truth it's natural to doubt--Bishop Williamson
      --------------------------------------------------- Loyal SSPXer for 24 years and counting-------

    Offline Henry101

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    « Reply #14 on: October 03, 2015, 09:43:28 PM »
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  • haha well, like everything else, that, too, has a story.

    I started attending SSPX chapels after attending Maronite churches my entire life. In the maronite church, when a Bishop ordains a new priest, he renames the priest with a new name. It's traditional to call a priest by his first name in the Maronite church, like Father Jamil, etc.
    It's a 50 year old habit that is taking me a while to break.

    I'll wait a few days until someone starts another thread and comments on how, perhaps, the altar veil isn't the correct color. That is how narrowminded some people have become on this forum.

    Fr. Frank RICCOMINI is an excellent, holy priest that, despite the large size of his flock, makes great effort to speak to every adult and child often. His days start at 6AM and end around 11PM. He has many many duties every day and he is forming souls to be Saints, nothing more, nothing less. He is a great role model for the boys in the chapel and is the reason why so many of our young men are attracted to the priesthood: they see a man as courageous and steadfast in the faith as Fr. Riccomini.

     

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