Author Topic: Orthodox Priest One Step From Resistance (Read 4216 times)

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #45 on:** April 22, 2019, 05:43:36 PM »

THE TEACHINGS OF THE FATHERS, DOCTORS AND SAINTS OF THE CHURCH UPON THE FINAL DESTINY OF MOST PEOPLE.

1) Notwithstanding assurances that God did not create any man for Hell, and that He wishes all men to be saved, it remains equally true that few will be saved; that only few will go to Heaven; and that the greater part of mankind will be lost forever. (St. John Neuman)

2) It is certain that few are saved. (St. Augustine)

3) The majority of men shall not see God. (St. Julian the Martyr)

4) Those who are saved are in the minority. ( St. Thomas Aquinas)

5) The greater part of men choose to be damned rather than to love almighty God. (St. Alphonsus Liguori)

6) So vast a number of miserable souls perish, and so comparatively few are saved. (St. Philip Neri)

7) Among adults there are few saved because of the sins of the flesh....With exception of those who die in childhood, most men will be damned. (St. Remigius of Rheims)

8) Death bed conversions/repentance-there are hardly any: Out of 100,000 sinners who continue in sin until death, scarcely ONE will be saved. (St. Jerome)

9) The MAJORITY OF CATHOLICS GO TO HELL:

a) The greater number of Christians today are damned. The destiny of those dying on one day is that very few - not as many as ten - went straight to Heaven; many remained in Purgatory; and THOSE CAST INTO HELL WERE NUMEROUS AS SNOWFLAKES in mid-winter. (Bl. Anna Maria Taigi)

b) There are many who arrive at the faith, but few who are led to the heavenly kingdom. Behold how many are gathered here for today's Feast-Day; we fill the church from wall to wall. Yet who knows how FEW they are who shall be numbered in that chosen company of the elect? (Pope St. Gregory the Great)

c) The Ark, which in the midst of the Flood was the symbol of the Church, was wide below and narrow above, .... It was wide where the animals were, narrow where men lived; for the Holy Church is indeed wide in number of those who are carnal minded, narrow in the number of those who are spiritual.

( Pope St. Gregory the Great)

d) Shall we all be saved? Shall we go to heaven? Alas, my children we do not know at all! But I tremble when I see so many souls lost these days. See, they fall into Hell as leaves fall from the trees at the approach of winter. (St. John Vianney)

10) MOST PRIESTS GO TO HELL:

St. John Chrysostom, Patriarch of Constantinople, Doctor of the Church:

I do not speak rashly, but as I feel and think., I do not think that many priests are saved but that those that perish are far more numerous. The reason is that the office requires a great soul. For there are many things to make a priest swerve from rectitude, and he requires great vigilance on every side. Do you not perceive how many qualities a bishop must have that he may be apt to teach; patient towards the wicked, firm and faithful in teaching the Word? How many difficulties herein.

Moreover the loss of others is imputed to him. I need say no more. If but one dies without baptism, does it not entirely endanger his salvation? For the loss of one soul is so great an evil as no man can understand. If the salvation of one soul is of such importance that, for its sake, the Son of God became man and suffered so much, think of the penalty the loss of one soul will entail. (Third Homily, Acts of the Apostles)

b) Many religious go to Hell because they do not keep their vows. (St. Vincent Ferrer)

CATHOLICS NOT ASPIRING AND NOT LIVING AS SAINTS WILL GO TO HELL:

a) They who are enlightened to walk in the way of perfection, and through lukewarmness wish to tread the ordinary paths, shall be abandoned. (Bl. Angela of Foligno)

b) They who are to be saved as Saints, and wish to be saved as imperfect souls, shall not be saved. (Pope St. Gregory the Great)

c) St. Teresa.... had she not risen from the state of lukewarmness in which she lived, she would in the end have lost the grace of God and been damned. ( St. Alphonsus Liguori)

14) How many inhabitants of this city may perhaps be saved? What I am about to say is very terrible, yet I will not conceal it from you. Out of this thickly populated city with it's thousands of inhabitants, not 100 people will be saved. I even doubt whether there will be as many as that! ( St. John Chrysostom - the city was Antioch and its inhabitants were known to be in pursuit of comfort and the good things of life.)

15) A multitude of souls fall into the depths of Hell. (St. Anthony Mary Claret - It has been revealed that on the day of the death of St. Bernard there also died 79,997 other people, and of this total of 80,000 who died, only St. Bernard and two other monks were saved.)

16) In the great deluge in the days of Noah, all mankind perished, eight persons alone being saved in the Ark. In our days a deluge, not of water, but sins, continually inundates the earth, and out of this deluge very few escape. Scarcely anyone is saved. ( St. Alphonsus Liguori)

17) Yes indeed, many will be damned; few will be saved. (St. Benedict Joseph Labro)

18) If you only knew the women who will go to Hell because they did not bring into the world the children they should have given to it. ( St. John Vianney)

19) He who goes to Hell, goes of his own accord. Everyone who is damned, is damned because he wills his own damnation. (St. Alphonsus Liguori)

20) THOSE WHO HAVE HEARD NOTHING ABOUT THE FAITH CAN ALSO GO TO HELL:

a) When such unbelievers are damned, it is on account of other sins, which cannot be taken away without the faith, but not because of their sin of unbelief. (St. Thomas Aquinas)

b) Everyone that is of truth hears my voice. (St. John 18:37)

c) It may be true that there are, in the remotest parts of the world, some people who have not yet seen the light of the Savior. Certainly, God's manifold and ineffable goodness has always provided, and still provides, for all mankind in such a way that not one of the reprobates can find an excuse as though he had been refused the light of truth. ( St. Prosper of Aquitaine)

d) No one is lost without knowing it, and no one is deceived without wanting to be. (St. Teresa of Avila)

21) OUTSIDE OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, THERE IS NO SALVATION:

a) No matter how praiseworthy his actions might seem, he who is separated from the Catholic Church will never enjoy eternal life (Pope Gregory XVI)

b) O ye atheists who do not believe in God, what fools you are ! But if you do believe there is a God, you must also believe there is a true religion. And if not the Roman Catholic, which is it? Perhaps that of the pagans who admit many gods, thus they deny them all. Perhaps that of Mohammed, a religion invented by an impostor and framed for beasts rather than humans. Perhaps that of the Jєωs who had the true faith at one time but, because they rejected their redeemer, lost their faith, their country, their everything. Perhaps that of the heretics who, separating themselves from our Church, have confused all revealed dogmas in such a way that the belief of one heretic is contrary to that of his neighbor. O holy faith! Enlighten all those poor blind creatures who run to eternal perdition! (St. Alphonsus Liguori)

forlorn · « **Reply #46 on:** April 22, 2019, 05:48:34 PM »

Quote

7) Among adults there are few saved because of the sins of the flesh....With exception of those who die in childhood, most men will be damned. (St. Remigius of Rheims)

How common did he think adultery was?

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #47 on:** April 22, 2019, 05:55:27 PM »

Quote from: forlorn on April 22, 2019, 05:48:34 PM

How common did he think adultery was?

Its not just adultery, it is even worse for lusting, old men would lust for the nurse at their deathbed. The sins of the flesh blind men to commit other sins that are not of the flesh. Sins of the flesh keep people from going to confession. It is much more complicated than just adultery.

Quo vadis Domine · « **Reply #48 on:** April 22, 2019, 05:57:03 PM »

Quote from: Last Tradhican on April 22, 2019, 05:37:18 PM

St. Jerome is talking about deathbed conversion of baptized Catholics, and he is saying 1 in 100,000. You are talking about conversion after death bed, of Protestants and infidels.

So, according to you, the only sinners that can have a deathbed conversion are Catholic sinners. Protestant sinners have no chance of converting on their deathbed, at least according to you. Did you think this one out?
BTW: Why did you quote Saint Jerome in defense of your argument if you didn’t think that the quote didn’t pertain to Protestants?
Also, I never included infidels in my original post, only validly baptized Protestants and catechumens. Why are you making things up?

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #49 on:** April 22, 2019, 06:17:17 PM »

Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on April 22, 2019, 05:57:03 PM

So, according to you, the only sinners that can have a deathbed conversion are Catholic sinners. Protestant sinners have no chance of converting on their deathbed, at least according to you. Did you think this one out?
BTW: Why did you quote Saint Jerome in defense of your argument if you didn’t think that the quote didn’t pertain to Protestants?
Also, I never included infidels in my original post, only validly baptized Protestants and catechumens. Why are you making things up?

This is what you wrote that prompted me to respond: "One more thing. It is dogmatic that anyone who dies as a Protestant or any other false religion will not be saved. However, we don’t know what graces God gives to someone at the moment of death. It is nearly certain that there is some time before actual death and our apparent death".

A deathbed conversion is visual, there are many stories from saints of death bed conversions, a person can be in their deathbed for months, not just the last few seconds. They convert and a priest is called for and the person receive goes to confession and receives last rites.

I was trying to help you and the others who read here by showing what the popes and Fathers of the Church teach on the matter, but as of your last two posts you have begun getting offensive, so this will be the last direct response I will be making to any of your questions.

forlorn · « **Reply #50 on:** April 22, 2019, 06:20:25 PM »

Quote from: Last Tradhican on April 22, 2019, 05:55:27 PM

Its not just adultery, it is even worse for lusting, old men would lust for the nurse at their deathbed. The sins of the flesh blind men to commit other sins that are not of the flesh. Sins of the flesh keep people from going to confession. It is much more complicated than just adultery.

Ah, makes sense.

Quo vadis Domine · « **Reply #51 on:** April 22, 2019, 06:28:09 PM »

Quote from: Last Tradhican on April 22, 2019, 06:17:17 PM

This is what you wrote that prompted me to respond: "One more thing. It is dogmatic that anyone who dies as a Protestant or any other false religion will not be saved. However, we don’t know what graces God gives to someone at the moment of death. It is nearly certain that there is some time before actual death and our apparent death".

A deathbed conversion is visual, there are many stories from saints of death bed conversions, a person can be in their deathbed for months, not just the last few seconds. They convert and a priest is called for and the person receive goes to confession and receives last rites.

I was trying to help you and the others who read here by showing what the popes and Fathers of the Church teach on the matter, but as of your last two posts you have begun getting offensive, so this will be the last direct response I will be making to any of your questions.

That’s fine, I understand completely.

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #52 on:** April 22, 2019, 06:53:09 PM »

Quote from: ByzCat3000 on April 22, 2019, 04:02:43 PM

To be clear, if the Catholic Church does in fact teach this, I accept it. And if I were convinced it was the correct answer in this case, I would not have a problem answering in that way. I do however, have questions about it.

1: Are Protestants infidels, or is that a different category? (To be clear, in this case, I use the word "Protestant" colloquially to refer to anyone who considers themselves a Protestant. So while its true that any Protestant who isn't a formal heretic, if there are any such people, is really Catholic, they'd still be categorized as Protestant in the sense I mean here.) This is important because, whether rightly or wrongly, a lot of people would be more optimistic about the salvation of a pious Protestant who is baptized and actually believes in Jesus, as compared to Confucious (and even the Feeneyites grant this to very young Protestant children.)

Protestants are not infidels, however, that is no cause to "be more optimistic about the salvation of a pious Protestant who is baptized and actually believes in Jesus", as they are outside of the Church. There is no "cause" to be optimistic for their salvation, zero. (By the way, validly baptized infant Protestants are Catholic, they are not Protestants till they reach the age of reason.)

St. Peter Julian Eymard – Bad Catholic vs Good Protestant

People often say, “It is better to be a good Protestant than a bad Catholic.” That is not true! That would mean that one could be saved without the true faith. No. A bad Catholic remains a child of the family, although a prodigal; and however great a sinner he may be, he still has a right to mercy. Through his faith, a bad Catholic is nearer to God than a Protestant, for he is a member of the household, whereas the heretic is not. And how hard it is to make him become one!

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #53 on:** April 22, 2019, 07:00:23 PM »

Quote from: ByzCat3000 on April 22, 2019, 04:02:43 PM

To be clear, if the Catholic Church does in fact teach this, I accept it. And if I were convinced it was the correct answer in this case, I would not have a problem answering in that way. I do however, have questions about it.

2: Is this statement of his infallible? I ask because some of the church fathers (I particularly think of Justin Martyr here, but I don't think he was the only one) speculated that Socrates was saved. And Dante (I don't know how well regarded he is here, admittedly) I know speculated that a couple of pagans were saved, somehow. Archbishop Lefebvre, of course, also speculated along these lines. For non-Sedevacantists here, even if Vatican II is strictly speaking fallible, would it have as much weight as a fallible statement from Pius X and if not why not? (Sedevacantists, I'm definitely interested to hear what you'd say about the rest of what I've asked here, but I obviously know from a sede standpoint Vatican II is not authoritative at all, in any way.)

Socrates died before the New Covenant, he like Adam and Eve and all the just that died before the New Covenant did not have to be baptized or Catholic to go to Paradise (Limbo of the Patriarchs). As for Dante, he is not a Church Father, he is a nobody. Abp. L and Vatican II teach the same thing on this matter of salvation, they oppose Pope St. Pius X. Pope St. Pius X was just repeating what the Church had always taught. I'll take the sainted pope.

Galatians 1
6I wonder that you are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ, unto another gospel. 7Which is not another: only there are some that trouble you and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. 9As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema.

King Wenceslas · « **Reply #54 on:** April 23, 2019, 12:06:04 PM »

Quote from: Last Tradhican on April 22, 2019, 12:21:55 PM

Here is what Pope St. Pius X tells Catholics to answer :

The Sacred Congregation of the Propagation of the Faith, under Pope St. Pius X, in 1907, in answer to a question as to whether Confucius could have been saved, wrote:

“It is not allowed to affirm that Confucius was saved. Christians, when interrogated, must answer that those who die as infidels are damned”.

If one does not have the conviction to answer in that way, it is best not to answer anything.

I will go with St. Pius X on this one.

If Protestant, Mormon, Witness, Adventist, Muslim asked me if they can be saved, I will respond, "No, you will be damned." The nuances of Augustine and Pius IX are too much to discuss with those outside the Church. The only proper thing to say is they will be damned.

How can anyone of them in America say I am invincibly ignorant of the Catholic Church and its teachings? Give me a break. There is a Catholic Church practically in every town in America. So for all practical purposes they have no excuses as they flush their unused and out of date contraceptives down the toilet.

King Wenceslas · « **Reply #55 on:** April 23, 2019, 12:31:20 PM »

Ding Dong, all you "Catholic" women who contracept and restrict your births:

If you only knew the women who will go to Hell because they did not bring into the world the children they should have given to it. ( St. John Vianney)

King Wenceslas · « **Reply #56 on:** April 23, 2019, 12:47:52 PM »

Awesome statement by Gregory the Great:

The Ark, which in the midst of the Flood was the symbol of the Church, was wide below and narrow above, .... It was wide where the animals were, narrow where men lived; for the Holy Church is indeed wide in number of those who are carnal minded, narrow in the number of those who are spiritual.
( Pope St. Gregory the Great)

2Vermont · « **Reply #57 on:** April 23, 2019, 01:10:04 PM »

Quote from: Last Tradhican on April 22, 2019, 05:02:04 PM

Read again what St. Augustine wrote. You are basically saying that before the world was created God chose to give this person insufficient graces for conversion during his whole life, and then gave him the grace one second before he died.

Is it a matter of when God gives the grace or is it a matter of when the person acts on that grace? It seems to me that a person acting on God;s grace at the last moment doesn't necessarily mean that this is when God gave him/her that grace. It sounds more likely that the person (who could have acted upon it much earlier) chose to wait until the last moment. Not sure if that made sense.

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #58 on:** April 23, 2019, 02:17:06 PM »

Quote from: 2Vermont on April 23, 2019, 01:10:04 PM

Is it a matter of when God gives the grace or is it a matter of when the person acts on that grace? It seems to me that a person acting on God;s grace at the last moment doesn't necessarily mean that this is when God gave him/her that grace. It sounds more likely that the person (who could have acted upon it much earlier) chose to wait until the last moment. Not sure if that made sense.

When we die and learn the reality, we will see that all we did was maybe lean 1/1,000,000 of 1% in the direction of God, and He did the rest.

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #59 on:** April 23, 2019, 04:56:00 PM »

St. Augustine:

Before all decision to create the world, the infinite knowledge of God presents to Him all the graces, and different series of graces, which He can prepare for each soul, along with the consent or refusal which would follow in each circuмstance, and that in millions of possible combinations ... Thus, for each man in particular there are in the thought of God, limitless possible histories, some histories of virtue and salvation, others of crime and damnation; and God will be free in choosing such a world, such a series of graces, and in determining the future history and final destiny of each soul. And this is precisely what He does when among all possible worlds, by an absolutely free act, he decides to realize the actual world with all the circuмstances of its historic evolutions, with all the graces which in fact have been and will be distributed until the end of the world, and consequently with all the elect and all the reprobate who God foresaw would be in it if de facto He created it." [The Catholic Encyclopedia Appleton, 1909, on Augustine, pg 97]

Author Topic: Orthodox Priest One Step From Resistance (Read 4216 times)

Last Tradhican

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forlorn

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Last Tradhican

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Quo vadis Domine

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Last Tradhican

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forlorn

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Quo vadis Domine

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Last Tradhican

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Last Tradhican

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King Wenceslas

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King Wenceslas

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King Wenceslas

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2Vermont

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Last Tradhican

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Last Tradhican

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