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Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: Skunkwurxsspx on March 21, 2014, 07:44:13 PM

Title: Original Vatican II Schemas
Post by: Skunkwurxsspx on March 21, 2014, 07:44:13 PM

Dear Friends,

     Check out the link below. It contains English translations of 4 (out of 72) original schemas of Vatican II (which the enemies of the Church prevailed in throwing out).

     Reading through them is enough to make one rightly wonder what the Church would have been like today had these beautifully traditional schemas been promulgated into law back then.

     Yet, it seems, God allowed the bad guys to have it their way--only to forge out of this immense crisis of the Faith extraordinary heroes such as Archbishop Lefebvre.

     Let us also take heart in the fact that God has called us to live precisely during this difficult and morally challenging era to be shining soldiers of His, making our little victories each day so especially pleasing in His sight!    


http://unamsanctamcatholicam.com/history/historia-ecclesiae/79-history/421-original-vatican-ii-schemas.html

Title: Original Vatican II Schemas
Post by: Mabel on March 21, 2014, 08:15:34 PM

When one looks at these it is a clear indication that the Conciliar religion broke away from the Catholic Church.

I wish I could live in a time where history views it this way, but I hope and pray that my descendants will.

Title: Original Vatican II Schemas
Post by: Neil Obstat on March 22, 2014, 01:19:50 AM

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I have heard that ABL had been one of the several authors who had prepared the original schemas over a period of 2 years before October of 1962.

Also, the progressivists that John XXIII rehabilitated into positions of power took action from the very start to REMOVE the original schemas from the Council and set them aside, so as to START ALL OVER with a new agenda, as it were.

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Title: Original Vatican II Schemas
Post by: Skunkwurxsspx on March 22, 2014, 01:56:34 AM

Quote from: Neil Obstat

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I have heard that ABL had been one of the several authors who had prepared the original schemas over a period of 2 years before October of 1962.

Also, the progressivists that John XXIII rehabilitated into positions of power took action from the very start to REMOVE the original schemas from the Council and set them aside, so as to START ALL OVER with a new agenda, as it were.

.

Yep, pretty much the long and the short of it, Neil. The fateful "hijacking" of the Council, if you will. Good, concise summary of events, my friend!

Title: Original Vatican II Schemas
Post by: Neil Obstat on March 22, 2014, 09:11:00 AM

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Also, someone has said that copies, or original docuмents have been kept, perhaps by ABL or someone close to him, and we have all of those original schemas for reference (some of which you link to in the OP).  

If they are all intact, it would seem that it is possible for Vatican I to be re-convened, since it was never closed but only postponed for a later time.  I asked Msgr. Perez this question two years ago, asking if this would not be a way of getting rid of the whole problem of Vat.II once and for all, by simply re-convening Vatican I, and picking up with these original schemas as if Vat.II had never happened, making a clear statement that the entirety of Vat.II is to be expelled and to be accounted as no basis for any future reference as anything reliable or 'official'.  Vatican I would be the beginning and the original schemas could be the introduction, and then the good work of following that start could be followed.  He said that yes, this could be done.

The Modernists set aside the original schemas and that's how they achieved the curious abomination of the Newmass and the Newcode of Canon Law.  All of the defection from Tradition that we see today is consequent to that setting aside of these schemas.  We could turn it all around by simply resetting to that point and disregarding all the bad fruit of that fateful error in 1962.  

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Title: Original Vatican II Schemas
Post by: Skunkwurxsspx on March 22, 2014, 09:22:09 AM

Yes, that would seem the most logical course to take, and per the  Triumph of the Immaculate Heart, the "RESET" button will be pushed by the glorious future Magisterium of the Church. The only question for us: will that be during our lifetime? That only God knows. In the meantime, let us fight on, brother!

Title: Original Vatican II Schemas
Post by: Neil Obstat on March 22, 2014, 09:34:18 AM

Quote from: Skunkwurxsspx

Dear Friends,

     Check out the link below. It contains English translations of 4 (out of 72) original schemas of Vatican II (which the enemies of the Church prevailed in throwing out).

     Reading through them is enough to make one rightly wonder what the Church would have been like today had these beautifully traditional schemas been promulgated into law back then.

     Yet, it seems, God allowed the bad guys to have it their way--only to forge out of this immense crisis of the Faith extraordinary heroes such as Archbishop Lefebvre.

     Let us also take heart in the fact that God has called us to live precisely during this difficult and morally challenging era to be shining soldiers of His, making our little victories each day so especially pleasing in His sight!    


http://unamsanctamcatholicam.com/history/historia-ecclesiae/79-history/421-original-vatican-ii-schemas.html

From the linked page:

Quote

The source material is interesting as well. An examination of the footnotes of the discarded schemas reveals an abundant number of citations from Pascendi, Mortalium Animos, the Syllabus and even the anti-Modernist oath, none of which are cited in the 1992 Catechism of the Catholic Church, for example.

The tone is markedly different; instead of the humble "searching for truth" [1] that we note in the conciliar docuмents, the original schemas lucidly and authoritatively proclaim the truth, as well as about the errors which pervert it.



[1] This phrase comes from Amerio, Romano (1996), Iota Unum:  A Study of Changes in the Catholic Church in the XXth Century.

Regarding this Vat.II theme of "searching for truth," it is found in an excellent definition of "dialogue with non-Catholics," as follows:  

What is meant by the word, 'dialogue'?

Dialogue is the practice of Catholics
getting together with non-Catholics,
sharing a common desire to search for the truth,
hoping to discover the truth,
and presuming from the start
that none of them have it.

Romano Amerio was a peritus at Vat.II, one who noticed there were serious problems.  


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Title: Original Vatican II Schemas
Post by: Neil Obstat on March 22, 2014, 10:15:30 AM

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From the linked page:

Quote

When the Council got underway, the progressive Council Fathers saw the schemas of Ottaviani as an obstacle to their program of reform. Cardinal Bea, one of the more influential Cardinals and a favorite of Pope John XXIII, explained to his progressive colleagues:

"We must help the Holy Father achieve his goals for the Council, the ones he expresses in his radio messages and in his exhortations. These are not the same as those of the schemas, either because the Theological Commission, which directs them, is closed to the world and to ideas of peace, justice, and unity, or because of the division of the work and a lack of co-ordination. They've made room for everything except the Holy Spirit." [2]

Thus, these schemas, which were 'closed to the world', were replaced with what we currently have, and the defects of which we are all well aware. As they were never adopted, these schemas have no authority; but in reading them, one cannot help but contemplating the council that might have been.


[2]  Fouilloux, Vatican II commence (Catholic Univ. of Louvain, 1993), pg. 72, note 56

Augustin Cardinal Bea was one of the most subversive liberals in Vat.II.  

Much of the dirty work he did was not a matter of record, but done by way of verbal communication to others within his personal influence.  Therefore, those who would dare to defend him have claimed that when someone quotes him or quotes someone else who knew him, that these quotes are "hearsay" and therefore unreliable.  

Consequently, when we do have a paragraph like the one above, which is a matter of record, we would do well to pay attention to what it says.  

Cardinal Bea here says that the Theological Commission (drafted the original schemas, which see) is closed to the world -- as if that is a bad thing.  In just the previous century, Catholics in the XIXth century were well aware that "being in the world but not being of the world" was a great mark of virtue for a priest of God.  It was commonly found as an epitaph of good priests on tombstones and in biographies and in personal letters of family and friends.  I have found it written in the margins of old books, for example, written by people who had died 100 years before I was born.  But the written word lives on.  

So long as it's written on paper -- for what's written on the Internet has no such endurance!!!

He implies that being closed to the world is a bad thing, and then subtly attaches, "...and [closed] to ideas of peace, justice, and unity,..." as if being closed to the world has any similarity to being closed to the ideas of peace, justice and unity!"  

He is making a pronouncement of fundamental substance here, and it has absolutely no basis in reality.  It is entirely MADE UP.  It is a FANTASY.  It is a FABLE.  It is a MYTH.  But he gets away with it because he is subtle.

As if that isn't enough, Cardinal Bea, the Modernist, goes on: "...or because of the division of the work and a lack of co-ordination. They've made room for everything except the Holy Spirit."

What a pack of damned lies.  But it's typical of Cardinal Augustin Bea, the subversive.


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