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Offline bowler

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Orange Light?
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2013, 06:21:11 PM »
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  • Quote from: SeanJohnson
    Quote from: bowler
    Quote from: SeanJohnson
    1) Traditionally, the SSPX taught us that we could not attend Ecclesia Dei chapels;

    2) One of the reasons was that, even if everything said and done were Catholic and orthodox, they were still omitting to teach the faithful about the poisons contained in the doctrines of Vatican II;

    3) And through this omission, these chapels represented a danger to the faith;

    ....
    9) Do not his omissions represent as much a danger to the faith as an indult chapel, insofar as both refuse to condemn doctrinal error?

    10) And if that is the case, was not the SSPX wrong to have formerly condemned indult chapel attendance on this account;

    11) Or if they were correct, does it not hold perfectly true against the chapels manned by silent priests today?

    12) Or perhaps this particular reason for avoiding indult chapels was simply another reason to avoid them, but not sufficient to ban attendance at them?




    Those "dangers to the faith" are dangers to children and those that do not know their faith. When I was single, I would have gone to an indult mass if that was all that was available. That was never for me a reason not to go to an indult mass. The reason why I would not go to an indult mass was because I had doubts about the validity of the priests. PERIOD!

    The SSPX use to teach that as the main reason. Then in like 2006 tThe Angelus magazine came out with an article saying that the New Rite of Episcopal Consecrations was valid (and thus they could ordain valid priests in the Novus Ordo). They switched their teaching! Needless to say, if that is true, then there is no reason for a person who knows his faith, to not go to an indult mass if that is all that he has. AND, if they find an indult mass with a priest that is better than their SSPX priest, there is no rerason to go to the SSPX.



    Bowler-

    Sorry, but you are wrong.

    You may have had your subjective understanding and reservations regarding the dangers inherent in attending the indult.

    But the objective preclusion stemmed from the never-abrogated 1984 indult which stated that by your mere presence in the chapel, you accepted that the new and old Mass were equal.

    It doesn't matter that you don't believe that.

    Additionally, your post overlooks the slow erosion process that comes with attending the indult: All the people that go there think they have perfect faith, despite believing V2 is reconcilable with tradition.


    Well, there's no point in me debating over something that would never happen, since I don't attend an indult. My only ppoint is that the most important reason for me not attending an indult mass is because I have SERIOUS doubts about the validity of their priest. AND the SSPX by what they write, no longer have that doubt.


    Offline bowler

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    Orange Light?
    « Reply #31 on: April 06, 2013, 06:25:31 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    Quote from: bowler
    The reason why I would not go to an indult mass was because I had doubts about the validity of the priests. PERIOD!


    Yes. Even now the SSPX says that they may or may not be valid priests, as they sometimes, but not always, re-ordain Novus Ordo priests who come to the SSPX conditionally.


    I don't hear anymore any mention of any Novus Ordo priest being conditionally ordained. The SSPX in The Angelus article formally taught that the Novus Ordo consecrations of bishops is valid, and that was a far weaker rite than the Ordination Rite.


    Offline Emerentiana

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    Orange Light?
    « Reply #32 on: April 06, 2013, 06:30:36 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    Quote from: s2srea
    I have been counseled by Fr. Hewko, for what its worth, to continue to attend SSPX chapels for the time being, until the Doctrinal Preamble becomes official policy.


    I am glad to hear the good priest's recommendation.


    Thats kind of strange, because Fr Pfeiffer said not to attend Una cuм masses of the SSPX.   Fr Hewko also told my friend here when he visited, that attending  neo SSPX masses is like stepping into quicksand.  

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    « Reply #33 on: April 06, 2013, 06:38:12 PM »
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  • Quote from: Emerentiana
    Quote from: Matto
    Quote from: s2srea
    I have been counseled by Fr. Hewko, for what its worth, to continue to attend SSPX chapels for the time being, until the Doctrinal Preamble becomes official policy.


    I am glad to hear the good priest's recommendation.


    Thats kind of strange, because Fr Pfeiffer said not to attend Una cuм masses of the SSPX.   Fr Hewko also told my friend here when he visited, that attending  neo SSPX masses is like stepping into quicksand.  



    Are you saying that Fr. Pfeiffer is sedevacantist???

    It would certainly be news to any at our resistance center that Fr. Pfeiffer does not say "una cuм."
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline s2srea

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    « Reply #34 on: April 06, 2013, 09:04:10 PM »
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  • Quote from: Emerentiana
    Quote from: Matto
    Quote from: s2srea
    I have been counseled by Fr. Hewko, for what its worth, to continue to attend SSPX chapels for the time being, until the Doctrinal Preamble becomes official policy.


    I am glad to hear the good priest's recommendation.


    Thats kind of strange, because Fr Pfeiffer said not to attend Una cuм masses of the SSPX.   Fr Hewko also told my friend here when he visited, that attending  neo SSPX masses is like stepping into quicksand.  


    Emerentiana- do you mind telling me where you heard this? Was it also from your friend?

    In order to see if a mistake has been made, do you mind me asking if your friend is sede as you are (I believe you are, no?)?


    Offline Emerentiana

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    « Reply #35 on: April 07, 2013, 12:43:31 AM »
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  • Quote from: SeanJohnson
    Quote from: Emerentiana
    Quote from: Matto
    Quote from: s2srea
    I have been counseled by Fr. Hewko, for what its worth, to continue to attend SSPX chapels for the time being, until the Doctrinal Preamble becomes official policy.


    I am glad to hear the good priest's recommendation.


    Thats kind of strange, because Fr Pfeiffer said not to attend Una cuм masses of the SSPX.   Fr Hewko also told my friend here when he visited, that attending  neo SSPX masses is like stepping into quicksand.  



    Are you saying that Fr. Pfeiffer is sedevacantist???

    It would certainly be news to any at our resistance center that Fr. Pfeiffer does not say "una cuм."


    Im not saying that at all.  I didnt say that HE didnt say the UNA cuм mass.  I said that he told the faithful not to attend the UNA cuм masses.  

    He gave a talk a while back about that.  He and Fr Hewko asked the resistence members in our area not to attend the Neo SSPX masses.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    « Reply #36 on: April 07, 2013, 09:35:42 AM »
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  • Quote from: Emerentiana
    Quote from: SeanJohnson
    Quote from: Emerentiana
    Quote from: Matto
    Quote from: s2srea
    I have been counseled by Fr. Hewko, for what its worth, to continue to attend SSPX chapels for the time being, until the Doctrinal Preamble becomes official policy.


    I am glad to hear the good priest's recommendation.


    Thats kind of strange, because Fr Pfeiffer said not to attend Una cuм masses of the SSPX.   Fr Hewko also told my friend here when he visited, that attending  neo SSPX masses is like stepping into quicksand.  



    Are you saying that Fr. Pfeiffer is sedevacantist???

    It would certainly be news to any at our resistance center that Fr. Pfeiffer does not say "una cuм."


    Im not saying that at all.  I didnt say that HE didnt say the UNA cuм mass.  I said that he told the faithful not to attend the UNA cuм masses.  

    He gave a talk a while back about that.  He and Fr Hewko asked the resistence members in our area not to attend the Neo SSPX masses.


    So tell me f I am understanding correctly:

    1) Fr Pfeiffer says "una cuм"

    2) But he told faithful they should not attend "una cuм" Masses?

    3) Therefore, he is telling faithful not to attend his own Masses???
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Emerentiana

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    « Reply #37 on: April 07, 2013, 01:19:55 PM »
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  • Quote from: SeanJohnson
    Quote from: Emerentiana
    Quote from: SeanJohnson
    Quote from: Emerentiana
    Quote from: Matto
    Quote from: s2srea
    I have been counseled by Fr. Hewko, for what its worth, to continue to attend SSPX chapels for the time being, until the Doctrinal Preamble becomes official policy.


    I am glad to hear the good priest's recommendation.


    Thats kind of strange, because Fr Pfeiffer said not to attend Una cuм masses of the SSPX.   Fr Hewko also told my friend here when he visited, that attending  neo SSPX masses is like stepping into quicksand.  



    Are you saying that Fr. Pfeiffer is sedevacantist???

    It would certainly be news to any at our resistance center that Fr. Pfeiffer does not say "una cuм."


    Im not saying that at all.  I didnt say that HE didnt say the UNA cuм mass.  I said that he told the faithful not to attend the UNA cuм masses.  

    He gave a talk a while back about that.  He and Fr Hewko asked the resistence members in our area not to attend the Neo SSPX masses.


    So tell me f I am understanding correctly:

    1) Fr Pfeiffer says "una cuм"

    2) But he told faithful they should not attend "una cuм" Masses?

    3) Therefore, he is telling faithful not to attend his own Masses???



    Twist and contort!
     :mad:

    There are many priests in the SSPX that DO NOT SAY  the UNA cuм.  There always have been.  Priests do not really reveal if the are  inserting the name of the "pope" into the mass
    FYI, there are priests  in the SSPX that hold a  secret sedevacantist stand.  There have always been priests  in the SSPX that have converted to the sedevacantist stand.  Many of them have left the society.  

    Please take my comments and do your own research.
    There were some articles on this forum about Fr Pfeiffer saying not to attend Una cuм Masses.  If anyone can find these articles, please post them on this thread.
    I really dont have time to do research.
    The purpose of my post was to show the contradictions.  Fr Hewko says one thing, and then says another.  Fr Pfeiffer saays dont attend the Neo SSPX masses.  I dont know if he  is now advising the faithful privately to attend the Neo SSPX, like Fr Hewko apparently is.  I know first hand that Fr Hewko advised my friend to stay away from the Neo SSPX.

    Perhaps , Sean, you can ask these priests personally if they use the UNA cuм in their masses.  


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    « Reply #38 on: April 07, 2013, 01:26:29 PM »
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  • Quote from: Emerentiana
    Quote from: SeanJohnson
    Quote from: Emerentiana
    Quote from: SeanJohnson
    Quote from: Emerentiana
    Quote from: Matto
    Quote from: s2srea
    I have been counseled by Fr. Hewko, for what its worth, to continue to attend SSPX chapels for the time being, until the Doctrinal Preamble becomes official policy.


    I am glad to hear the good priest's recommendation.


    Thats kind of strange, because Fr Pfeiffer said not to attend Una cuм masses of the SSPX.   Fr Hewko also told my friend here when he visited, that attending  neo SSPX masses is like stepping into quicksand.  



    Are you saying that Fr. Pfeiffer is sedevacantist???

    It would certainly be news to any at our resistance center that Fr. Pfeiffer does not say "una cuм."


    Im not saying that at all.  I didnt say that HE didnt say the UNA cuм mass.  I said that he told the faithful not to attend the UNA cuм masses.  

    He gave a talk a while back about that.  He and Fr Hewko asked the resistence members in our area not to attend the Neo SSPX masses.


    So tell me f I am understanding correctly:

    1) Fr Pfeiffer says "una cuм"

    2) But he told faithful they should not attend "una cuм" Masses?

    3) Therefore, he is telling faithful not to attend his own Masses???



    Twist and contort!
     :mad:

    There are many priests in the SSPX that DO NOT SAY  the UNA cuм.  There always have been.  Priests do not really reveal if the are  inserting the name of the "pope" into the mass
    FYI, there are priests  in the SSPX that hold a  secret sedevacantist stand.  There have always been priests  in the SSPX that have converted to the sedevacantist stand.  Many of them have left the society.  

    Please take my comments and do your own research.
    There were some articles on this forum about Fr Pfeiffer saying not to attend Una cuм Masses.  If anyone can find these articles, please post them on this thread.
    I really dont have time to do research.
    The purpose of my post was to show the contradictions.  Fr Hewko says one thing, and then says another.  Fr Pfeiffer saays dont attend the Neo SSPX masses.  I dont know if he  is now advising the faithful privately to attend the Neo SSPX, like Fr Hewko apparently is.  I know first hand that Fr Hewko advised my friend to stay away from the Neo SSPX.

    Perhaps , Sean, you can ask these priests personally if they use the UNA cuм in their masses.  


    Emerentiana-

    I wasn't trying to twist/contort.

    Just wasn't understanding.

    Pax
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline hugeman

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    Orange Light?
    « Reply #39 on: April 07, 2013, 01:27:27 PM »
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  • Quote from: SeanJohnson
    All that said, I guess I am kind of asking the same question as you, in a different way:

    Does the refusal of SSPX pastors to warn the faithful about the poison contained in Bishop Fellay's acceptance of the hermeneutic of continuity (i.e, his acceptance of V2) mean we can no longer attend such chapels, since by analogy it amounts to the same omission as indult priests to warn against the poison of V2?

    In good faith, I do not know what the answer is.

    In time all things become clear.

    Sean Johnson,
       This is a great question; and the answer also provides an insight
    into Father Hewko's advice to several posters to " continue in your SSPX
    Chapel, until you get a resistance chapel going."
       There was no single morning during which Bishop Williamson,
    Fathers Chazal, Pfeiffer, Hewko, Basilio, Don Thomas, et al  all woke
    up and came to the same conclusion. You can , however, be sure Fathers Hewko, Pfeiffer
    and Chazal did not teach heresy the day, of even in The weeks before,
    they finally stood up and decided that "enough is enough!"
        Each priest came at a slightly different time, to the realization that,
    based on all the evidence they then had, it is NOW time to resist.
         There are, please God, many more such priests still in the SSPX
    who are nearing that decision point. Some of the posters  here may be attending the
    Masses of these priests. As long as they are npot preaching heresy, and openly
    supporting the leftist reunification with Rome, it may be very
    possible to still receive valid sacraments from them. Of course, your financial support
    should go to the priests and Bishop of The resistance-- giving the local parish what is
    only absolutely necessary to support faithful priests.
        We recall that the Saint Help Save SSPX! says Christians are identified by the way we live. Do we just dessert our brothers in the faith--just at the time they need the truth? Just at the point they
    are  beginning to awaken from their slumber? Just at the time they are realizing that, in Bp. Fellay's new world, 2 + 2  do not equal 4; rather they equal whatever is expedient to get recognition,and, of course, more money?
        The answer is slightly different for each of us. If you can remain strong in your faith, and not fall prey to the sneaky hidden messages in the accordistas such as a Fr. LeRoux, a Fr. Robinson, a Fr. Anglase,  or a Fr. Rostand, and you can help others wake up-- then that's your job!
          If the brainwashing is too intense , or everybody  in your chapel is so duped that they are forever lost (i.e.they actively want an association with the false perverts in Rome),and you have a valid Mass to attend elsewhere, then that's your job.


    Offline Nishant

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    « Reply #40 on: April 07, 2013, 07:32:13 PM »
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  • Quote from: Sean Johnson
    per the terms of the never-abrogated 1984 indult.


    The terms of the 1984 Indult were in fact replaced by Summorum Pontificuм in 2007, no? Pope Benedict XVI wrote, "The conditions for the use of this Missal as laid down by earlier docuмents 'Quattuor abhinc annis' (i.e. the 1984 Indult) and 'Ecclesia Dei,' are substituted" to no longer require the permission of the Holy See or local Ordinary and was recognized as every priest's right without further condition. IMO, Society leaders think that fact makes the situation today as such quite different from that in the 80's.

    "Never will anyone who says his Rosary every day become a formal heretic ... This is a statement I would sign in my blood." St. Montfort, Secret of the Rosary. I support the FSSP, the SSPX and other priests who work for the restoration of doctrinal orthodoxy and liturgical orthopraxis in the Church. I accept Vatican II if interpreted in the light of Tradition and canonisations as an infallible declaration that a person is in Heaven. Sedevacantism is schismatic and Ecclesiavacantism is heretical.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    « Reply #41 on: April 07, 2013, 07:46:43 PM »
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  • Nishant-

    I started wondering about that myself, and your quote brings me to correction.

    Much obliged.

    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SJB

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    « Reply #42 on: April 07, 2013, 08:53:03 PM »
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  • Quote from: Emerertiana
    There were some articles on this forum about Fr Pfeiffer saying not to attend Una cuм Masses.  If anyone can find these articles, please post them on this thread.


    I doubt he ever said such a thing. Since you made the statement, why don't you post the relevant quotes?

    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline Elizabeth

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    « Reply #43 on: April 07, 2013, 11:12:58 PM »
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  • Quote from: SJB
    Quote from: Emerertiana
    There were some articles on this forum about Fr Pfeiffer saying not to attend Una cuм Masses.  If anyone can find these articles, please post them on this thread.


    I doubt he ever said such a thing. Since you made the statement, why don't you post the relevant quotes?



    Don't know about una cuм, but Fr. Pfeieffer was saying not to go to SSPX around March 13-15; it's in a video.   Sean Johnson began a thread called "There is no Red Light" on March 15, and he references Fr. Pfieffer's sermon.  Emerentiana did not make this subject up.  I believe one of the threads dealing with this subject may have been deleted, but the video of Fr. Pfeiffer's sermon will be around somewhere.


    Offline For Greater Glory

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    « Reply #44 on: April 07, 2013, 11:18:36 PM »
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  • Fr. Pfeiffer told me several weeks ago not to go to the NeoSSPX Masses. He said the teaching at the top had changed and it would trickle down.