Author Topic: Orange Light? (Read 15865 times)

Domitilla · « **Reply #25 on:** April 06, 2013, 05:48:45 PM »

Great posts, Sean. A number of us resistors are currently in a "holding pattern". We definitely are aware of the looming dangers; watching what transpires in our local Chapels very carefully - waiting for "the other shoe to drop".

As +Williamson has advised: "Watch and pray".

It seems to be inevitable that sooner or later, in the absence of a Resistance Priest, we'll be at home with our rosaries, scapulars, and missals. Kyrie Eleison!

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #26 on:** April 06, 2013, 05:49:17 PM »

Stated differently still:

It has never been clear to me when sufficient necessity has been reached such as to justify attendance at an Ecclesia Dei Mass.

I believe having read somewhere once that the moralists determined the threshold of necessity to have been reached whenever "spiritual benefit will be derived," though if you ask me to cite that source, I may take a good long time to come up with it.

But given all the dangers wrapped up in attending a PCED Mass, I am not sure whether that raiser the bar on the degree of necessity required to justify attendance.

Remember: By stepping foot in the building, you are acknowledging by that very fact, despite any subjective intent to the contrary, that you acknowledge the new and old Masses to be on par with eachother, per the terms of the never-abrogated 1984 indult.

bowler · « **Reply #27 on:** April 06, 2013, 06:08:23 PM »

Quote from: SeanJohnson

1) Traditionally, the SSPX taught us that we could not attend Ecclesia Dei chapels;

2) One of the reasons was that, even if everything said and done were Catholic and orthodox, they were still omitting to teach the faithful about the poisons contained in the doctrines of Vatican II;

3) And through this omission, these chapels represented a danger to the faith;

....
9) Do not his omissions represent as much a danger to the faith as an indult chapel, insofar as both refuse to condemn doctrinal error?

10) And if that is the case, was not the SSPX wrong to have formerly condemned indult chapel attendance on this account;

11) Or if they were correct, does it not hold perfectly true against the chapels manned by silent priests today?

12) Or perhaps this particular reason for avoiding indult chapels was simply another reason to avoid them, but not sufficient to ban attendance at them?

Those "dangers to the faith" are dangers to children and those that do not know their faith. When I was single, I would have gone to an indult mass if that was all that was available. That was never for me a reason not to go to an indult mass. The reason why I would not go to an indult mass was because I had doubts about the validity of the priests. PERIOD!

The SSPX use to teach that as the main reason. Then in like 2006 The Angelus magazine came out with an article saying that the New Rite of Episcopal Consecrations was valid (and thus they could ordain valid priests in the Novus Ordo). They switched their teaching! Moreover, the SSPX stopped conditionally ordaining the Novus Ordo priests that came over to the SSPX. Needless to say, if that is true, then there is no reason for a person who knows his faith, to not go to an indult mass if that is all that he has. AND, if they find an indult mass with a priest that is better than their SSPX priest, there is no reason to go to the SSPX.

I will not go to an indult mass because I have doubts about the validity of the priests. If the priest is not a priest, I might as well do a 15 decade rosary at home!

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #28 on:** April 06, 2013, 06:11:34 PM »

Quote from: bowler

Quote from: SeanJohnson
1) Traditionally, the SSPX taught us that we could not attend Ecclesia Dei chapels;

2) One of the reasons was that, even if everything said and done were Catholic and orthodox, they were still omitting to teach the faithful about the poisons contained in the doctrines of Vatican II;

3) And through this omission, these chapels represented a danger to the faith;

....
9) Do not his omissions represent as much a danger to the faith as an indult chapel, insofar as both refuse to condemn doctrinal error?

10) And if that is the case, was not the SSPX wrong to have formerly condemned indult chapel attendance on this account;

11) Or if they were correct, does it not hold perfectly true against the chapels manned by silent priests today?

12) Or perhaps this particular reason for avoiding indult chapels was simply another reason to avoid them, but not sufficient to ban attendance at them?

Those "dangers to the faith" are dangers to children and those that do not know their faith. When I was single, I would have gone to an indult mass if that was all that was available. That was never for me a reason not to go to an indult mass. The reason why I would not go to an indult mass was because I had doubts about the validity of the priests. PERIOD!

The SSPX use to teach that as the main reason. Then in like 2006 tThe Angelus magazine came out with an article saying that the New Rite of Episcopal Consecrations was valid (and thus they could ordain valid priests in the Novus Ordo). They switched their teaching! Needless to say, if that is true, then there is no reason for a person who knows his faith, to not go to an indult mass if that is all that he has. AND, if they find an indult mass with a priest that is better than their SSPX priest, there is no rerason to go to the SSPX.

Bowler-

Sorry, but you are wrong.

You may have had your subjective understanding and reservations regarding the dangers inherent in attending the indult.

But the objective preclusion stemmed from the never-abrogated 1984 indult which stated that by your mere presence in the chapel, you accepted that the new and old Mass were equal.

It doesn't matter that you don't believe that.

Additionally, your post overlooks the slow erosion process that comes with attending the indult: All the people that go there think they have perfect faith, despite believing V2 is reconcilable with tradition.

Matto · « **Reply #29 on:** April 06, 2013, 06:12:32 PM »

Quote from: bowler

The reason why I would not go to an indult mass was because I had doubts about the validity of the priests. PERIOD!

Yes. Even now the SSPX says that they may or may not be valid priests, as they sometimes, but not always, re-ordain Novus Ordo priests who come to the SSPX conditionally.