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Author Topic: Open Letter to Bishop Fellay from Thirty-Seven French Priests  (Read 2835 times)

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Offline Matthew

  • Mod
Re: Open Letter to Bishop Fellay from Thirty-Seven French Priests
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2019, 01:20:56 PM »
I've only read the first part so far, but I think it's a little misleading to contrast a quote from +Fellay with a quote from +Tissier, implying that +Fellay changed with the mere assertion that "you used to talk like him".  It's like putting words in his mouth 10 years prior.  If +Fellay indeed used to think/speak like that, how difficult would it be to find some quotation like that from him?

I kindof lost interest after the opening salvo for that reason.

Why?

If +Fellay never spoke like +Tissier (which is basically giving +Fellay the benefit of the doubt) then we have an even bigger problem.

The example quote from +Tissier was very +ABL and +Williamson-like -- very classic SSPX. In a worst-case scenario, if we can't produce quotes showing +Fellay was once Traditional as well -- we don't need to throw out the argument, thread, etc. we just need to conclude that +Fellay was never Traditional! Or else what is this, "shoot the messenger"?

I fail to see the problem you have with the OP. The argumentation is strong either way, with or without 10-year-ago Trad +Fellay quotes. The argument is anything but weak.

Re: Open Letter to Bishop Fellay from Thirty-Seven French Priests
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2019, 03:16:49 PM »
Why of course the man in 1999 is exactly the same man today:

In a 1999 interview, Bishop Fellay shows that he believes in a conspiracy to destroy the Church:
 

Bishop Fellay said:
"It is not possible to demonstrate it directly, but I believe anyway that these actions, these behaviors, belong to a general plan, a plan which has been set up pretty soon, at least since the beginning of the twentieth century, perhaps even a little sooner, timing to establish a world government with a world religion. And all that belongs to the preparation for this super-religion. In fact, it is utterly incompatible with the Catholic Religion and its Tradition.... On this point, one is obliged to discern the finger of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, and its own work inside the Church. It is particularly significant to notice that in 1992 a Freemason of high rank could state that inside the very Vatican, four Lodges are presently working, practicing the Scottish Rite, and that these four Lodges are specially devoted to the Vatican's clerics of high ranks. Thus the secret Brethren are working... and destroying, not uniquely from outside, but also from inside the Church itself, from its very bosom."

Fellay in 2004

Quote
Now, if you find in that organization a law against the salvation of souls or circuмstances in which a law is being used against that purpose, of course you do not obey that law. It is no longer true obedience. In such a case, obedience would go against the purpose itself for which God has founded the Church. And then, of course, you say no. And when you say no, you are not disobedient; on the contrary, you are really obedient, because you look at the purpose and the will of God. You see that this is going against the will of God; I want to follow the will of God, so in that case I have to say no.

These are basics but they are very important. It is very important that you have the right understanding of obedience, because we are called "rebels" and other labels which you know by heart by now. It is just not true. It is like when Rome says to us, "Come back." We say, "We are sorry, but we can't." Why? Because we are already in; we have never been away, so where do you want us to come back from? We are already in.


So he was a conspirer to sell out in 2004? Or maybe, just maybe, he had changed his thinking by 2012. Maybe he had had to many contacts with the partisans of error and became corrupted in his thinking over the years.

People do change. I am definitely not the same person from even 6 years ago with the coming of Francis. I have changed a lot. So Fellay could also.


Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Open Letter to Bishop Fellay from Thirty-Seven French Priests
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2019, 03:42:55 PM »
Why?

If +Fellay never spoke like +Tissier (which is basically giving +Fellay the benefit of the doubt) then we have an even bigger problem.

The example quote from +Tissier was very +ABL and +Williamson-like -- very classic SSPX. In a worst-case scenario, if we can't produce quotes showing +Fellay was once Traditional as well -- we don't need to throw out the argument, thread, etc. we just need to conclude that +Fellay was never Traditional! Or else what is this, "shoot the messenger"?

I fail to see the problem you have with the OP. The argumentation is strong either way, with or without 10-year-ago Trad +Fellay quotes. The argument is anything but weak.

Why would it be difficult to find a quote from +Fellay along the lines of what +Tissier said.  Maybe +Fellay was softer than the other ones out of the gate?  I don't know.  But the contradiction is based on the unproven (in this article at least) that +Fellay thought exactly the same way.  +Tissier and +Williamson have always been a little more hard-line than +Fellay and +Galaretta.

If this is true, there should be no shortage of +Fellay quotes from which they could make the same case.

Major:  +Tissier used to be a hard-liner.
Minor:  +Fellay used to speak like +Tissier.
Conclusion:  +Fellay used to be a hard-liner.

Minor is gratuitously asserted but not proven.  I don't understand why you don't see the logical flaw with this reasoning.  Do I have a hard-time believing that +Fellay used to be a hard-liner but changed?  Of course not, but I would like to see this established with real evidence.

But the other alternative is that +Fellay was soft (relative to +Tissier) even in the beginning, and perhaps even that he was an infiltrator put into the SSPX to bring it down.  

After all, it's well known that he wasn't on Archbishop Lefebvre's original list of priests to consecrate ... until some outside pressure was brought to bear,

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Open Letter to Bishop Fellay from Thirty-Seven French Priests
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2019, 03:44:48 PM »
I suspect that +Fellay could very well have been an infiltrator from the beginning.


Offline Meg

Re: Open Letter to Bishop Fellay from Thirty-Seven French Priests
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2019, 10:17:00 AM »
Or, maybe, +Fellay shared lion status with ABL after 1988, up until GREC, where it seems to have been clearly revealed that he too looked back longingly on the Captivity, and for the leeks and garlic of Egypt.
When was +Fellay ever a “lion,” is my question; and when, exactly did he drink the cool aid?

It seems to me, quite frankly, that +Fellay has always behaved more like a rat than a lion.

Yes, it's possible that after 1988 he began to think that being held captive by (Modernist) Rome is better than wandering in the desert and risking schism. But on the other hand, I too have to wonder if he was ever a lion, given that he fully allied himself to the works of that seer in the 1990's, which I still find disturbing.