Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: SeanJohnson on June 15, 2012, 07:25:00 AM
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Forum-
Inspired by the courage and lucidity evinced in the Letter to Bishop Fellay by the District of Great Britain faithful, I propose to draft a similar letter from the US District faithful.
In order for the Letter to have any impact, and to induce brave laity to sign it, several things would need to happen:
1) The letter would be worthless unless it could muster the signatures of 50% of the US faithful;
2) Knowing the US District to be most hostile to supporters of Archbishop Lefebvre, most US faithful would be reticent to sign without anonymity until they could be sure of significant support;
3) Therefore, I propose that that supporters email me their names/parish name/city, to be held in strict confidence until such time as 50% support is reached (If ever);
4) Last I heard, there were approximately 20,000 SSPX faithful in the US District (a few years ago);
5) This means the petition would not be published/sent unless 10,000 signatories could be obtained;
6) In order to obtain this number of signatures, a couple things would need to happen:
A) The letter would need to appear on all major Catholic websites (e.g., Cathinfo; Ignis Ardens; others), with an email account to send your confidential name/parish/city;
B) I could look into purchasing the entire back page of the Catholic Family News, seeking signatures for this "Bouquet" to send to Menzingen;
B) The letter would probably also need to circulate at SSPX chapels (The best way to do this without detection, and maintaining anonymity, is for someone to print hard copies and have a non-parishioner friend/family member stick them on windshields during Mass). Can we find sufficient support in all SSPX chapels to plaster cars with the letter?
C) This will also have an awareness-raising effect, since many of our people do not frequent the internet, and are probably oblivious of the whole debate/situation
7) If a large, but insufficient number of signatures is obtained, I will ask respondants (whose emails and addresses will have been retained for this purpose) whether they want to publish their resistence anyway.
8) On this score, I would ask you to reflect deeply; there will be consequences (thrown out of the parish; banned from the schools; loss and alienation of accordistas; etc). I do not know that I myself would make my resistence known, unless of course a deal is signed, in which case none of us has any choice.
So at this preliminary stage, I ask you Cathinfo readers to trouble shoot my idea.
Feedback is most welcome.
Once a plan is worked out, I can begin organizing a draft of the letter, which I will again submit to Cathinfo readers only, for critiqueing for a 2-3 day time period (i.e., Time is of the essense).
NOTE TO READERS: There are only a couple of you on this forum who know my true identity. You have the ability to sabotage this entire undertaking, should you choose to do so. I am at your mercy. Betraying me would rob my family of access to the sacraments. Given what is at stake, it seemed to me to be worth the risk. God's will be done.
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Is this project realistic?
Or do you think to many SSPXers are waiting for someone else to do their fighting for them?
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Depressing:
73 views
No replies
1 Thumbs up.
Can already tell this isn't going to work out.
Guess I will just do my own little things.
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May I, despite having no connection with the SSPX, offer a word of support and encouragement for this important initiative proposed by Seraphim.
In 1975, the late Fr Oswald Baker was suspended from his office as pastor of the English parish of Downham Market, which, at that time, he had already served for 24 years. He was a humble and kindly man; one deserving of the love that his parishioners had towards him, and of the respect in which he was held by the townsfolk who came into any sort of contact with him. He was suspended from office for the supposed offence of defying the highest authority in the Church - an authority alleged to have been held by the unlamented Paul VI. Fr Baker defied this authority by his refusal to celebrate the newly-invented Novus Ordo Missae and by adhering to the Traditional Latin Mass for which he had been trained and ordained, 33 years before.
Upon being suspended, Fr Baker was no longer permitted to say Mass in the parish church; he was deprived of his previous source of income and of a right to a pension, but at least there was a just provision in Canon Law that allowed him to remain in residence at the priest's house. Thereafter, he worked independently of the diocesan structure, even rising to the call of pastoral duties beyond the territorial limits of his parish. He died in 2004 and was buried by a traditional Catholic priest whom I will not put at risk by publicising his name.
How was it that Father Baker was able to survive for the next 29 years? How was it that he was able to establish a new chapel which, in fact, was blessed by Archbishop Lefebvre himself?
It was by the support of the laity, especially in the first instance, of his own parishioners who understood the spirit of the law, as against its letter. They understood that the salvation of souls had an indisputable priority over a disputable edict with a Roman postmark; they understood that with the grace of the sacrament of confirmation they had received new responsibilities; they understood that, despite threats from the chancery, it was their duty to give Father Baker the active support that was needed for him to remain faithful to his ordination oath, and to fulfil his part in the preservation of Catholic Tradition.
Do not the circuмstances of the present time again speak to the laity of their responsibility? Is this a time for walking away when betrayal is in the wind?
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Depressing:
73 views
No replies
1 Thumbs up.
Can already tell this isn't going to work out.
Guess I will just do my own little things.
Um...you posted this at 7:25 AM. There are some people who don't get up until after 11 AM. I know, I have a messed up schedule. That's what happens when you don't have to set and alarm and get up for work -- hooray for self-employment! (And hooray for video phone calls not being more popular in 2012...)
On the other hand, at least I'm on here at 2 AM! :)
Anyhow, I'm all for your idea.
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Forum-
3) Therefore, I propose that that supporters email me their names/parish name/city, to be held in strict confidence until such time as 50% support is reached (If ever);
Seraphim,
Hi, I'm a new member. I e-mailed you the information and some fightin' words. Don't know if the e-mail was sent - was told I must be an established member. What does that entail? Thanks, :confused1:
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Seraphim, you need to have an E-mail address for people to send to. New members and non-members cannot PM you.
It will also be needed to have it posted to ignis ardens etc.
I am not of the American district however, I wish you good luck.
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I am new here and have signed the British letter.
This is just to wish you prayers and good luck. :rahrah: :cheers:
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Seraphim, you need to have an E-mail address for people to send to. New members and non-members cannot PM you.
It will also be needed to have it posted to ignis ardens etc.
I am not of the American district however, I wish you good luck.
Agreed.
This will be necessary at some point.
But I think it must first be established to acquire/locate contacts at the various SSPX chapels who will be willing to distribute the Letter.
Without first getting that coordinated, there is no point in anything else.
It would be impossible to build a formidable, substantial support base without this critical step.
How did the Brits get their signatures?
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I am new here and have signed the British letter.
This is just to wish you prayers and good luck. :rahrah: :cheers:
What was the manner in which the British letter was circulated for obtaining signatures?
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I am new here and have signed the British letter.
This is just to wish you prayers and good luck. :rahrah: :cheers:
Aye Margaret...with the beer in your hand,
a nice Irish girl you be?
We Americans were most impressed with the 200+ signatures on the
UK "Open Letter" to Bp. Fellay.
The time for negotiating is over.
We must demand Monsignor Fellay's resignation!
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Poetry will get you everywhere!!!! :cheers:
The British letter was circulated through e mailing people we knew and word of mouth for people with no internet access. :dancing-banana:
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Forum-
Inspired by the courage and lucidity evinced in the Letter to Bishop Fellay by the District of Great Britain faithful, I propose to draft a similar letter from the US District faithful.
In order for the Letter to have any impact, and to induce brave laity to sign it, several things would need to happen:
1) The letter would be worthless unless it could muster the signatures of 50% of the US faithful;
2) Knowing the US District to be most hostile to supporters of Archbishop Lefebvre, most US faithful would be reticent to sign without anonymity until they could be sure of significant support;
3) Therefore, I propose that that supporters email me their names/parish name/city, to be held in strict confidence until such time as 50% support is reached (If ever);
4) Last I heard, there were approximately 20,000 SSPX faithful in the US District (a few years ago);
5) This means the petition would not be published/sent unless 10,000 signatories could be obtained;
6) In order to obtain this number of signatures, a couple things would need to happen:
A) The letter would need to appear on all major Catholic websites (e.g., Cathinfo; Ignis Ardens; others), with an email account to send your confidential name/parish/city;
B) I could look into purchasing the entire back page of the Catholic Family News, seeking signatures for this "Bouquet" to send to Menzingen;
B) The letter would probably also need to circulate at SSPX chapels (The best way to do this without detection, and maintaining anonymity, is for someone to print hard copies and have a non-parishioner friend/family member stick them on windshields during Mass). Can we find sufficient support in all SSPX chapels to plaster cars with the letter?
C) This will also have an awareness-raising effect, since many of our people do not frequent the internet, and are probably oblivious of the whole debate/situation
7) If a large, but insufficient number of signatures is obtained, I will ask respondants (whose emails and addresses will have been retained for this purpose) whether they want to publish their resistence anyway.
8) On this score, I would ask you to reflect deeply; there will be consequences (thrown out of the parish; banned from the schools; loss and alienation of accordistas; etc). I do not know that I myself would make my resistence known, unless of course a deal is signed, in which case none of us has any choice.
So at this preliminary stage, I ask you Cathinfo readers to trouble shoot my idea.
Feedback is most welcome.
Once a plan is worked out, I can begin organizing a draft of the letter, which I will again submit to Cathinfo readers only, for critiqueing for a 2-3 day time period (i.e., Time is of the essense).
NOTE TO READERS: There are only a couple of you on this forum who know my true identity. You have the ability to sabotage this entire undertaking, should you choose to do so. I am at your mercy. Betraying me would rob my family of access to the sacraments. Given what is at stake, it seemed to me to be worth the risk. God's will be done.
Seraphim,
Thank you for putting the "US Letter" idea into motion.
I suggest that the letter very politely ask for Bp. Fellay's resignation, if for any other reason: "A lack of confidence in his leadership".
The letter is important, not so much for venting our feelings, but for assuring those priests in doubt that we are behind them. Like Father Pfieffer's sermon, it helps to embolden us to +ABL's cause of resistance.
I doubt John Vennari would take the letter advertisement.
He's been a Bp. Fellay cheerleader since 2009.
However, I suspect Michael Matt is sympathetic to our cause.
Please let me know if you need any help or if you want to discuss it off-line?
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I'm in.
I agree that the letter should ask for Bp. Fellay's resignation as well as the resignation of his power clique. I suggest that we be clear that Krah, his Zionism, his worldly Facebook "likes," and his financial influence are objectionable. It might be worth suggesting that the SSPX statutes be revised so that no power clique or Marrano handler can ever control the resources of the SSPX.
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Depressing:
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Can already tell this isn't going to work out.
The first shot has not been fired and you are already surrendering?
These things take time. The "what did the English group do" question was excellent advice. Find out more. You need to have someone draft the letter first.
Let me add something quickly, in my experience, when they count numbers in the chapels they count even babies. In my parish it's like 50% children under 20. If that is the rule, and you are told there are 20,000 parishioners in the USA, then if you get 10,000 signatures, you have 100% of all the adults.
In politics they say that for every person that writes in, it equals 1000 voters.
I've always heard it said that all wars are fought by like 30% of the people, 15% on each side. I think that if you get 1000 signatures, you will have enough of a contigent to convert the rest.
Besides, in my opinion, the letter is just to show support for the three bishops, for it is they who lead us. This is not a democracy, where the people choose, it is about following our leaders, and not following one bishop who is opposed to the three bishops. Specially since we are talking about TOTAL change.
No time to review spelling right now, got to go
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Depressing:
....
Can already tell this isn't going to work out.
The first shot has not been fired and you are already surrendering?
These things take time. The "what did the English group do" question was excellent advice. Find out more. You need to have someone draft the letter first.
Let me add something quickly, in my experience, when they count numbers in the chapels they count even babies. In my parish it's like 50% children under 20. If that is the rule, and you are told there are 20,000 parishioners in the USA, then if you get 10,000 signatures, you have 100% of all the adults.
In politics they say that for every person that writes in, it equals 1000 voters.
I've always heard it said that all wars are fought by like 30% of the people, 15% on each side. I think that if you get 1000 signatures, you will have enough of a contigent to convert the rest.
Besides, in my opinion, the letter is just to show support for the three bishops, for it is they who lead us. This is not a democracy, where the people choose, it is about following our leaders, and not following one bishop who is opposed to the three bishops. Specially since we are talking about TOTAL change.
No time to review spelling right now, got to go
Excellent advice.
Please keep the advice coming.
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Depressing:
....
Can already tell this isn't going to work out.
The first shot has not been fired and you are already surrendering?
These things take time. The "what did the English group do" question was excellent advice. Find out more. You need to have someone draft the letter first.
Let me add something quickly, in my experience, when they count numbers in the chapels they count even babies. In my parish it's like 50% children under 20. If that is the rule, and you are told there are 20,000 parishioners in the USA, then if you get 10,000 signatures, you have 100% of all the adults.
In politics they say that for every person that writes in, it equals 1000 voters.
I've always heard it said that all wars are fought by like 30% of the people, 15% on each side. I think that if you get 1000 signatures, you will have enough of a contigent to convert the rest.
Besides, in my opinion, the letter is just to show support for the three bishops, for it is they who lead us. This is not a democracy, where the people choose, it is about following our leaders, and not following one bishop who is opposed to the three bishops. Specially since we are talking about TOTAL change.
No time to review spelling right now, got to go
Yeah, this isn't a vote.
The 200+ UK faithful who courageously stood-up to Menzingen demonstrated there thousands of us behind them.
The latest Max Krah/massad revelations, should remind us not to care what
Menzingen thinks. We at war with infiltrators who are literally trying to kill us.
We have to take off our gloves and start fighting
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Yes, Seraphim, I believe I know who you are. And I'm pretty sure that a mutual friend of ours will be able to give some input. We do have to do this. And with many, many rosaries, God's will will be done.
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Is there any reason to think that Bishop Fellay cares at all what anyone else thinks?
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Is there any reason to think that Bishop Fellay cares at all what anyone else thinks?
True. He obviously doesn't care what the SSPX faithful think.
+F's actions for the past three years have been related to doing the newRome deal. His method has been to work for it covertly.
An SSPX resistance Letter merely announces to the Pope and the world
that Fellay's leadership has failed.
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Yes, Seraphim, I believe I know who you are. And I'm pretty sure that a mutual friend of ours will be able to give some input. We do have to do this. And with many, many rosaries, God's will will be done.
That person's advice is currently being sought.
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Depressing:
....
Can already tell this isn't going to work out.
The first shot has not been fired and you are already surrendering?
These things take time. The "what did the English group do" question was excellent advice. Find out more. You need to have someone draft the letter first.
Let me add something quickly, in my experience, when they count numbers in the chapels they count even babies. In my parish it's like 50% children under 20. If that is the rule, and you are told there are 20,000 parishioners in the USA, then if you get 10,000 signatures, you have 100% of all the adults.
In politics they say that for every person that writes in, it equals 1000 voters.
I've always heard it said that all wars are fought by like 30% of the people, 15% on each side. I think that if you get 1000 signatures, you will have enough of a contigent to convert the rest.
Besides, in my opinion, the letter is just to show support for the three bishops, for it is they who lead us. This is not a democracy, where the people choose, it is about following our leaders, and not following one bishop who is opposed to the three bishops. Specially since we are talking about TOTAL change.
No time to review spelling right now, got to go
Excellent advice.
Please keep the advice coming.
:applause: Outstanding post, Clint!
My 2 cents ?:
Seraphim, with your God-given talent for clear, succinct thinking; and an ability to express points thru a precise, logistical flow...
I believe you're the perfect candidate to compose this statement.
I also think you'd have the complete support/confidence of many in this forum.
Don't be so quick to measure the response... not yet, anyway!
When and/or IF there's an official announcement, then the definitive alignments will become emphatically clear.
Perhaps its when the 3 holy bishops make their own official pronouncement...
It'll sound the trumpets, beckoning the true children of ABL to a fiercesome battle array!
As Clint says, then the letter could prove a great rally point to follow the holy bishops' lead.
(Personally, I truly believe a lot of US priests are laying low in the weeds, keeping their powder dry.)
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1) I have begun to receive contact information via PM.
2) Please be assured of absolute confidentiality.
3) Consider, however, that I have not yet drafted the Letter, and you may not ending up agreeing with what I say.
4) I imagine you will, but just saying.
5) In any case, any persons who send me contact information will have a future opportunity to revoke their signatures.
6) Once I publish the letter on Cathinfo, you are free to disseminate it to other websites.
7) Once the letter has been published, I will wait a few days for feedback and input.
8) It will contain a yet to be created gmail email address account for supporters to submit their signatures.
9) I will then send a final notice to all that, unless I receive a request to revoke your signature, it will be appended to the letter and disseminated, as well as being mailed to Menzingen and all SSPX District Superiors.
10) I will begin drafting the letter tomorrow.
11) please note that it is absolutely critical that we find supporters at the various SSPX chapels to paste the letter to parishioner windshields. Someone needs to take the initiative to pay some pagan school kid $10 to do it during Mass.
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Seraphim, You might convert that "pagan school kid" and his entire family. Things have a way of having a domino effect. Ad meiorem Dei gloriam! :dancing:
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Is there any reason to think that Bishop Fellay cares at all what anyone else thinks?
A fair question.
But it is as much about doing that which we are able to do, as it is about what the effect will be.
I think about the parable of the talents, and the accounts the stewards had to render to their master.
If the inspiration has been excited within me, will I have to render an account for what I did with it?
I guess that is my ultimate motivation, and nobody else seems to be doing it.
Fwiw....
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OK, I'm back. Here's some more ideas:
Have someone talk to Bishop Tissier de Mallerais (he is now in the USA) and have him draft the letter in French for all the whole world to sign. The three bishops can sign it. We translate to English, South America to Spanish, etc.
Have John Vennari (Catholic Family News) and Michael Matt (The Remnant) publish it in their newspapers.
As far as the signatures of the faithful, they can sign it after it's published. That will give them a chance to see the other side, the majority, the three bishops, voice of our three shepherds. The sheep will recognize the voice of their shepherds.
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OK, I'm back. Here's some more ideas:
Have someone talk to Bishop Tissier de Mallerais (he is now in the USA) and have him draft the letter in French for all the whole world to sign. The three bishops can sign it. We translate to English, South America to Spanish, etc.
Have John Vennari (Catholic Family News) and Michael Matt (The Remnant) publish it in their newspapers.
As far as the signatures of the faithful, they can sign it after it's published. That will give them a chance to see the other side, the majority, the three bishops, voice of our three shepherds. The sheep will recognize the voice of their shepherds.
Clint-
1) Those are good thoughts, but I think it is important for Menzingen to see this letter as a work of the faithful;
2) Menzingen already knows the other bishops will not follow Bishop Fellay into Rome, and the terms coming from Rome pretty much cement that;
3) But what I hope to accomplish is to show Menzingen that, despite all their maneuvers to facilitate a sellout in the US District, a significant number of faithful will not follow either.
4) Now, if you are suggesting we have Bishop Tissier write the letter for us, that would be a fantastic idea, but I do not know if he would be willing, or how to get access to him.
5) I will Definately solicit Matt and Vennari, but do not think they would support the project, though I could be wrong. We will see soon enough. I may call them tomorrow.
6) I thought about the idea of allowing the faithful the option of signing after publication too. However, ruled against it for two reasons.
A) Signatories will be reluctant unless they can see there is already a large amount of support behind the initiative;
B) It will make a larger impact if all the consenting names can be on the Letter at the time of publication than gradually adding names (which again will be reluctant in coming).
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Forum-
Inspired by the courage and lucidity evinced in the Letter to Bishop Fellay by the District of Great Britain faithful, I propose to draft a similar letter from the US District faithful.
In order for the Letter to have any impact, and to induce brave laity to sign it, several things would need to happen:
1) The letter would be worthless unless it could muster the signatures of 50% of the US faithful;
2) Knowing the US District to be most hostile to supporters of Archbishop Lefebvre, most US faithful would be reticent to sign without anonymity until they could be sure of significant support;
3) Therefore, I propose that that supporters email me their names/parish name/city, to be held in strict confidence until such time as 50% support is reached (If ever);
4) Last I heard, there were approximately 20,000 SSPX faithful in the US District (a few years ago);
5) This means the petition would not be published/sent unless 10,000 signatories could be obtained;
6) In order to obtain this number of signatures, a couple things would need to happen:
A) The letter would need to appear on all major Catholic websites (e.g., Cathinfo; Ignis Ardens; others), with an email account to send your confidential name/parish/city;
B) I could look into purchasing the entire back page of the Catholic Family News, seeking signatures for this "Bouquet" to send to Menzingen;
B) The letter would probably also need to circulate at SSPX chapels (The best way to do this without detection, and maintaining anonymity, is for someone to print hard copies and have a non-parishioner friend/family member stick them on windshields during Mass). Can we find sufficient support in all SSPX chapels to plaster cars with the letter?
C) This will also have an awareness-raising effect, since many of our people do not frequent the internet, and are probably oblivious of the whole debate/situation
7) If a large, but insufficient number of signatures is obtained, I will ask respondants (whose emails and addresses will have been retained for this purpose) whether they want to publish their resistence anyway.
8) On this score, I would ask you to reflect deeply; there will be consequences (thrown out of the parish; banned from the schools; loss and alienation of accordistas; etc). I do not know that I myself would make my resistence known, unless of course a deal is signed, in which case none of us has any choice.
So at this preliminary stage, I ask you Cathinfo readers to trouble shoot my idea.
Feedback is most welcome.
Once a plan is worked out, I can begin organizing a draft of the letter, which I will again submit to Cathinfo readers only, for critiqueing for a 2-3 day time period (i.e., Time is of the essense).
NOTE TO READERS: There are only a couple of you on this forum who know my true identity. You have the ability to sabotage this entire undertaking, should you choose to do so. I am at your mercy. Betraying me would rob my family of access to the sacraments. Given what is at stake, it seemed to me to be worth the risk. God's will be done.
Seraphim,
Thank you for putting the "US Letter" idea into motion.
I suggest that the letter very politely ask for Bp. Fellay's resignation, if for any other reason: "A lack of confidence in his leadership".
The letter is important, not so much for venting our feelings, but for assuring those priests in doubt that we are behind them. Like Father Pfieffer's sermon, it helps to embolden us to +ABL's cause of resistance.
I doubt John Vennari would take the letter advertisement.
He's been a Bp. Fellay cheerleader since 2009.
However, I suspect Michael Matt is sympathetic to our cause.Please let me know if you need any help or if you want to discuss it off-line?
You have this completely reversed sir. JV is not a BF cheerleader. He has been posting against Benedict XVI and has brought up former articles that are against a deal. There is a purpose to this I think.
Michael Matt is a cheerleader for Ecclesia Dei. He has even said so.
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...to paste the letter to parishioner windshields...
Well, that would certainly get their attention, but perhaps something slightly less permanent would be a better idea. :wink:
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...to paste the letter to parishioner windshields...
Well, that would certainly get their attention, but perhaps something slightly less permanent would be a better idea. :wink:
I don't know, you'd get some interesting e-mails that way. We might learn a few new words...
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Lol
By "pasting" the letter to windshields, I merely meant putting a copy under their windshield wiper. :roll-laugh2:
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Now, if you are suggesting we have Bishop Tissier write the letter for us, that would be a fantastic idea, but I do not know if he would be willing, or how to get access to him.
To get access to him, anyone can walk up to him and ask to talk to him in private and ask him. He's in the USA right now. I guarantee you that he's already been consulted by hundreds since the letters were leaked. He is very easy to approach it is not like he walks around with a body guard.
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Now, if you are suggesting we have Bishop Tissier write the letter for us, that would be a fantastic idea, but I do not know if he would be willing, or how to get access to him.
To get access to him, anyone can walk up to him and ask to talk to him in private and ask him. He's in the USA right now. I guarrantee you that he's already been consulted by hundreds since the letters were leaked. He is very easy to approach it is not like he walks around with a body guard.
Does anyone know where he is that would be willing to ask him?
I know the email protocol for priests of the US District is "Frarostand@sspx.org" for example.
Doubt you could get to the bishop that way though.
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Seraphim wrote: Now, if you are suggesting we have Bishop Tissier write ]the
letter for us, that would be a fantastic idea, but I do not know if he would be willing, or how to get access to him.
Clint: To get access to him, anyone can walk up to him and ask to talk to him in private and ask him. He's in the USA right now. I guarrantee you that he's already been consulted by hundreds since the letters were leaked. He is very easy to approach it is not like he walks around with a body guard.
Seraphim wrote: Does anyone know where he is that would be willing to ask him? I know the email protocol for priests of the US District is "Frarostand@sspx.org" for example.Doubt you could get to the bishop that way though.
Clint: He was at the ordinations in Winona on Friday.
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Seraphim wrote: Now, if you are suggesting we have Bishop Tissier write the letter for us, that would be a fantastic idea, but I do not know if he would be willing, or how to get access to him.
Clint: To get access to him, anyone can walk up to him and ask to talk to him in private and ask him. He's in the USA right now. I guarantee you that he's already been consulted by hundreds since the letters were leaked. He is very easy to approach it is not like he walks around with a body guard.
Seraphim wrote: Does anyone know where he is that would be willing to ask him?
Clint: He was at the ordinations in Winona on Friday.
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Bishop Bernard Tissier de Mallerais will be administering the sacrament of confirmation at the following SSPX chapels:
June 17: St. Marys, KS
June 20: Veneta, OR
June 24: Syracuse, NY
But I'm sure anyone in these places already knew that. : )
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Seraphim, count me in. If I can be of any assistance, it would be a privilege.
May our Good God reward you for bravely stepping into the frontline of this noble fight ....
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OK, I'm back. Here's some more ideas:
Have someone talk to Bishop Tissier de Mallerais (he is now in the USA) and have him draft the letter in French for all the whole world to sign. The three bishops can sign it. We translate to English, South America to Spanish, etc.
Have John Vennari (Catholic Family News) and Michael Matt (The Remnant) publish it in their newspapers.
As far as the signatures of the faithful, they can sign it after it's published. That will give them a chance to see the other side, the majority, the three bishops, voice of our three shepherds. The sheep will recognize the voice of their shepherds.
I like the idea having the whole world sign. I am in Malaysia...numbers here are next to none but I make enough noise in the pews for 10..that is literally speaking.. we need to put all on one letter...have a greater impact i think when they roll out the paper.
Got friends in the Phillipines..they would get this out too over there...
-
Forum-
Inspired by the courage and lucidity evinced in the Letter to Bishop Fellay by the District of Great Britain faithful, I propose to draft a similar letter from the US District faithful.
In order for the Letter to have any impact, and to induce brave laity to sign it, several things would need to happen:
1) The letter would be worthless unless it could muster the signatures of 50% of the US faithful;
2) Knowing the US District to be most hostile to supporters of Archbishop Lefebvre, most US faithful would be reticent to sign without anonymity until they could be sure of significant support;
3) Therefore, I propose that that supporters email me their names/parish name/city, to be held in strict confidence until such time as 50% support is reached (If ever);
4) Last I heard, there were approximately 20,000 SSPX faithful in the US District (a few years ago);
5) This means the petition would not be published/sent unless 10,000 signatories could be obtained;
6) In order to obtain this number of signatures, a couple things would need to happen:
A) The letter would need to appear on all major Catholic websites (e.g., Cathinfo; Ignis Ardens; others), with an email account to send your confidential name/parish/city;
B) I could look into purchasing the entire back page of the Catholic Family News, seeking signatures for this "Bouquet" to send to Menzingen;
B) The letter would probably also need to circulate at SSPX chapels (The best way to do this without detection, and maintaining anonymity, is for someone to print hard copies and have a non-parishioner friend/family member stick them on windshields during Mass). Can we find sufficient support in all SSPX chapels to plaster cars with the letter?
C) This will also have an awareness-raising effect, since many of our people do not frequent the internet, and are probably oblivious of the whole debate/situation
7) If a large, but insufficient number of signatures is obtained, I will ask respondants (whose emails and addresses will have been retained for this purpose) whether they want to publish their resistence anyway.
8) On this score, I would ask you to reflect deeply; there will be consequences (thrown out of the parish; banned from the schools; loss and alienation of accordistas; etc). I do not know that I myself would make my resistence known, unless of course a deal is signed, in which case none of us has any choice.
So at this preliminary stage, I ask you Cathinfo readers to trouble shoot my idea.
Feedback is most welcome.
Once a plan is worked out, I can begin organizing a draft of the letter, which I will again submit to Cathinfo readers only, for critiqueing for a 2-3 day time period (i.e., Time is of the essense).
NOTE TO READERS: There are only a couple of you on this forum who know my true identity. You have the ability to sabotage this entire undertaking, should you choose to do so. I am at your mercy. Betraying me would rob my family of access to the sacraments. Given what is at stake, it seemed to me to be worth the risk. God's will be done.
Seraphim,
Thank you for putting the "US Letter" idea into motion.
I suggest that the letter very politely ask for Bp. Fellay's resignation, if for any other reason: "A lack of confidence in his leadership".
The letter is important, not so much for venting our feelings, but for assuring those priests in doubt that we are behind them. Like Father Pfieffer's sermon, it helps to embolden us to +ABL's cause of resistance.
I doubt John Vennari would take the letter advertisement.
He's been a Bp. Fellay cheerleader since 2009.
However, I suspect Michael Matt is sympathetic to our cause.Please let me know if you need any help or if you want to discuss it off-line?
You have this completely reversed sir. JV is not a BF cheerleader. He has been posting against Benedict XVI and has brought up former articles that are against a deal. There is a purpose to this I think.
Michael Matt is a cheerleader for Ecclesia Dei. He has even said so.
LordPhan,
Are you saying John Vennari (CFN) has not been "pro-Fellay" since 2009?
I beg to differ. He suddenly turned-on pro-SSPX at this time.
I suppose we could go through his archives and count the number of pro-SSPX articles before and after 2009?
In any case, the true test would be if JV accepted the US Letter advertisement in his newspaper.
For Michael Matt, sure, he prints some wacky things from time-to-time.
However, he published Stephen Dupuy's article "The Ides of April"
Concerning the Pope's ulterior motives for incorporating the SSPX into
the Conciliar Church to implement a 3rd hybrid mass.
http://www.remnantnewspaper.com/Archives/2012-0415-dupuy-ides-of-april-sspx-rome.htm
This was a watershed article in mainstream trad press that made Catholics start to wonder what Rome's SSPX courtship was really all about? So, in the current crisis, I think Mr. Matt is waking-up
-
OK, I'm back. Here's some more ideas:
Have someone talk to Bishop Tissier de Mallerais (he is now in the USA) and have him draft the letter in French for all the whole world to sign. The three bishops can sign it. We translate to English, South America to Spanish, etc.
Have John Vennari (Catholic Family News) and Michael Matt (The Remnant) publish it in their newspapers.
As far as the signatures of the faithful, they can sign it after it's published. That will give them a chance to see the other side, the majority, the three bishops, voice of our three shepherds. The sheep will recognize the voice of their shepherds.
Clint-
1) Those are good thoughts, but I think it is important for Menzingen to see this letter as a work of the faithful;
2) Menzingen already knows the other bishops will not follow Bishop Fellay into Rome, and the terms coming from Rome pretty much cement that;
3) But what I hope to accomplish is to show Menzingen that, despite all their maneuvers to facilitate a sellout in the US District, a significant number of faithful will not follow either.
4) Now, if you are suggesting we have Bishop Tissier write the letter for us, that would be a fantastic idea, but I do not know if he would be willing, or how to get access to him.
5) I will Definately solicit Matt and Vennari, but do not think they would support the project, though I could be wrong. We will see soon enough. I may call them tomorrow.
6) I thought about the idea of allowing the faithful the option of signing after publication too. However, ruled against it for two reasons.
A) Signatories will be reluctant unless they can see there is already a large amount of support behind the initiative;
B) It will make a larger impact if all the consenting names can be on the Letter at the time of publication than gradually adding names (which again will be reluctant in coming).
Seraphim,
I agree with you, it should be a letter from the US faithful.
Its a reciprocal expression between the 3-Bishops and the faithful. They have come forth, shown resistance and backed us up.
We should show our resolve, speak-out and support them.
Besides, Bp. Tissier is wonderful, but he is... French!
Frenchmen express themselves in a unique way... totally different from how the US SSPX faithful should convey their feelings.
(We are gun-slinging cowboys, they art artful swordsmen).
As the UK District taught us, it's appropriate for every SSPX District to come out with a letter of resistance to Bishop Fellay. We fight the battle, District by District, Chapel by Chapel, pew by pew.
A simple letter asking Bp. Fellay to step down for "lack of confidence" in fulfilling his duties as +ABL's successor and Superior General is all we need.
-
Forum-
Inspired by the courage and lucidity evinced in the Letter to Bishop Fellay by the District of Great Britain faithful, I propose to draft a similar letter from the US District faithful.
In order for the Letter to have any impact, and to induce brave laity to sign it, several things would need to happen:
1) The letter would be worthless unless it could muster the signatures of 50% of the US faithful;
2) Knowing the US District to be most hostile to supporters of Archbishop Lefebvre, most US faithful would be reticent to sign without anonymity until they could be sure of significant support;
3) Therefore, I propose that that supporters email me their names/parish name/city, to be held in strict confidence until such time as 50% support is reached (If ever);
4) Last I heard, there were approximately 20,000 SSPX faithful in the US District (a few years ago);
5) This means the petition would not be published/sent unless 10,000 signatories could be obtained;
6) In order to obtain this number of signatures, a couple things would need to happen:
A) The letter would need to appear on all major Catholic websites (e.g., Cathinfo; Ignis Ardens; others), with an email account to send your confidential name/parish/city;
B) I could look into purchasing the entire back page of the Catholic Family News, seeking signatures for this "Bouquet" to send to Menzingen;
B) The letter would probably also need to circulate at SSPX chapels (The best way to do this without detection, and maintaining anonymity, is for someone to print hard copies and have a non-parishioner friend/family member stick them on windshields during Mass). Can we find sufficient support in all SSPX chapels to plaster cars with the letter?
C) This will also have an awareness-raising effect, since many of our people do not frequent the internet, and are probably oblivious of the whole debate/situation
7) If a large, but insufficient number of signatures is obtained, I will ask respondants (whose emails and addresses will have been retained for this purpose) whether they want to publish their resistence anyway.
8) On this score, I would ask you to reflect deeply; there will be consequences (thrown out of the parish; banned from the schools; loss and alienation of accordistas; etc). I do not know that I myself would make my resistence known, unless of course a deal is signed, in which case none of us has any choice.
So at this preliminary stage, I ask you Cathinfo readers to trouble shoot my idea.
Feedback is most welcome.
Once a plan is worked out, I can begin organizing a draft of the letter, which I will again submit to Cathinfo readers only, for critiqueing for a 2-3 day time period (i.e., Time is of the essense).
NOTE TO READERS: There are only a couple of you on this forum who know my true identity. You have the ability to sabotage this entire undertaking, should you choose to do so. I am at your mercy. Betraying me would rob my family of access to the sacraments. Given what is at stake, it seemed to me to be worth the risk. God's will be done.
Seraphim,
Thank you for putting the "US Letter" idea into motion.
I suggest that the letter very politely ask for Bp. Fellay's resignation, if for any other reason: "A lack of confidence in his leadership".
The letter is important, not so much for venting our feelings, but for assuring those priests in doubt that we are behind them. Like Father Pfieffer's sermon, it helps to embolden us to +ABL's cause of resistance.
I doubt John Vennari would take the letter advertisement.
He's been a Bp. Fellay cheerleader since 2009.
However, I suspect Michael Matt is sympathetic to our cause.Please let me know if you need any help or if you want to discuss it off-line?
You have this completely reversed sir. JV is not a BF cheerleader. He has been posting against Benedict XVI and has brought up former articles that are against a deal. There is a purpose to this I think.
Michael Matt is a cheerleader for Ecclesia Dei. He has even said so.
LordPhan,
Are you saying John Vennari (CFN) has not been "pro-Fellay" since 2009?
I beg to differ. He suddenly turned-on pro-SSPX at this time.
I suppose we could go through his archives and count the number of pro-SSPX articles before and after 2009?
In any case, the true test would be if JV accepted the US Letter advertisement in his newspaper.
For Michael Matt, sure, he prints some wacky things from time-to-time.
However, he published Stephen Dupuy's article "The Ides of April"
Concerning the Pope's ulterior motives for incorporating the SSPX into
the Conciliar Church to implement a 3rd hybrid mass.
http://www.remnantnewspaper.com/Archives/2012-0415-dupuy-ides-of-april-sspx-rome.htm
This was a watershed article in mainstream trad press that made Catholics start to wonder what Rome's SSPX courtship was really all about? So, in the current crisis, I think Mr. Matt is waking-up
-
Forum-
Inspired by the courage and lucidity evinced in the Letter to Bishop Fellay by the District of Great Britain faithful, I propose to draft a similar letter from the US District faithful.
In order for the Letter to have any impact, and to induce brave laity to sign it, several things would need to happen:
1) The letter would be worthless unless it could muster the signatures of 50% of the US faithful;
2) Knowing the US District to be most hostile to supporters of Archbishop Lefebvre, most US faithful would be reticent to sign without anonymity until they could be sure of significant support;
3) Therefore, I propose that that supporters email me their names/parish name/city, to be held in strict confidence until such time as 50% support is reached (If ever);
4) Last I heard, there were approximately 20,000 SSPX faithful in the US District (a few years ago);
5) This means the petition would not be published/sent unless 10,000 signatories could be obtained;
6) In order to obtain this number of signatures, a couple things would need to happen:
A) The letter would need to appear on all major Catholic websites (e.g., Cathinfo; Ignis Ardens; others), with an email account to send your confidential name/parish/city;
B) I could look into purchasing the entire back page of the Catholic Family News, seeking signatures for this "Bouquet" to send to Menzingen;
B) The letter would probably also need to circulate at SSPX chapels (The best way to do this without detection, and maintaining anonymity, is for someone to print hard copies and have a non-parishioner friend/family member stick them on windshields during Mass). Can we find sufficient support in all SSPX chapels to plaster cars with the letter?
C) This will also have an awareness-raising effect, since many of our people do not frequent the internet, and are probably oblivious of the whole debate/situation
7) If a large, but insufficient number of signatures is obtained, I will ask respondants (whose emails and addresses will have been retained for this purpose) whether they want to publish their resistence anyway.
8) On this score, I would ask you to reflect deeply; there will be consequences (thrown out of the parish; banned from the schools; loss and alienation of accordistas; etc). I do not know that I myself would make my resistence known, unless of course a deal is signed, in which case none of us has any choice.
So at this preliminary stage, I ask you Cathinfo readers to trouble shoot my idea.
Feedback is most welcome.
Once a plan is worked out, I can begin organizing a draft of the letter, which I will again submit to Cathinfo readers only, for critiqueing for a 2-3 day time period (i.e., Time is of the essense).
NOTE TO READERS: There are only a couple of you on this forum who know my true identity. You have the ability to sabotage this entire undertaking, should you choose to do so. I am at your mercy. Betraying me would rob my family of access to the sacraments. Given what is at stake, it seemed to me to be worth the risk. God's will be done.
Seraphim,
Thank you for putting the "US Letter" idea into motion.
I suggest that the letter very politely ask for Bp. Fellay's resignation, if for any other reason: "A lack of confidence in his leadership".
The letter is important, not so much for venting our feelings, but for assuring those priests in doubt that we are behind them. Like Father Pfieffer's sermon, it helps to embolden us to +ABL's cause of resistance.
I doubt John Vennari would take the letter advertisement.
He's been a Bp. Fellay cheerleader since 2009.
However, I suspect Michael Matt is sympathetic to our cause.Please let me know if you need any help or if you want to discuss it off-line?
You have this completely reversed sir. JV is not a BF cheerleader. He has been posting against Benedict XVI and has brought up former articles that are against a deal. There is a purpose to this I think.
Michael Matt is a cheerleader for Ecclesia Dei. He has even said so.
LordPhan,
Are you saying John Vennari (CFN) has not been "pro-Fellay" since 2009?
I beg to differ. He suddenly turned-on pro-SSPX at this time.
I suppose we could go through his archives and count the number of pro-SSPX articles before and after 2009?
In any case, the true test would be if JV accepted the US Letter advertisement in his newspaper.
For Michael Matt, sure, he prints some wacky things from time-to-time.
However, he published Stephen Dupuy's article "The Ides of April"
Concerning the Pope's ulterior motives for incorporating the SSPX into
the Conciliar Church to implement a 3rd hybrid mass.
http://www.remnantnewspaper.com/Archives/2012-0415-dupuy-ides-of-april-sspx-rome.htm
This was a watershed article in mainstream trad press that made Catholics start to wonder what Rome's SSPX courtship was really all about? So, in the current crisis, I think Mr. Matt is waking-up
I heard an interview last month with a panel that included Mr. Vennari- it sounded to me like he was against the agreement. I was gratified to know since before the interview, like you, I wasn't so sure.
-
Do not underestimate the work of Marrano/Zionist/Mossad revolutionaries in this "deal":
http://truerestoration.blogspot.com/2012/06/against-rumors-orwell-edition.html
http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2012/06/sspx-superior-bp-fellays-lawyerbusiness.html
http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2012/06/maximilian-krahs-handler-oren-heiman-co.html
http://krahgatefile.blogspot.com/2010/12/krahgate-revisited.html
http://krahgatefile.blogspot.com
-
Do not underestimate the work of Marrano/Zionist/Mossad revolutionaries in this "deal":
http://truerestoration.blogspot.com/2012/06/against-rumors-orwell-edition.html
http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2012/06/sspx-superior-bp-fellays-lawyerbusiness.html
http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2012/06/maximilian-krahs-handler-oren-heiman-co.html
http://krahgatefile.blogspot.com/2010/12/krahgate-revisited.html
http://krahgatefile.blogspot.com
No question, they are intimately involved in this entire affair.
Tip of the iceberg.
-
How people can even speculate Mr. Vennari as not being against the sell-out is beyond me.
You guys must be receiving a "double" newspaper subscription and entering into a "double" CFNews website other than the real one...
JV is an important warrior in the fight for Tradition, he has always been.
-
Seraphim, I attend independent chapel but I am a Catholic and I am an American from NJ and I believe in the SSPX. !Viva Cristo Rey y viva la Virgen de Guadalupe!
-
I like your idea of a letter. Isn't there ways setting up online petitions along with letter?
-
I'll do my best to serve God by helping you guys out.
Persecution, being ostracized....I'm used to it (I'm former novus ordo) *LOL*
-
I would show resistance even if an official docuмent isn't signed. We should always be truthful and not play games. I'm sure the letter that Seraphim drafts will be charitable and honest...
This is how I feel... Christ was tortured and died on the Cross. My own family and inlaws were severely persectued by anti-Catholics here in America. Anti-Catholicism still exists. Anti-Catholics have iniltrated Novus ordo and are persecuting the faithful and traditional.
At least I can do what I can for God, Our blessed Mother and the true Catholic faith.
And of course pray to God and pray our Rosary
-
How people can even speculate Mr. Vennari as not being against the sell-out is beyond me.
You guys must be receiving a "double" newspaper subscription and entering into a "double" CFNews website other than the real one...
JV is an important warrior in the fight for Tradition, he has always been.
AF,
I hope you are correct and perhaps I should do more research
on the content of Mr. Vennari's SSPX articles?
I just noticed that his newspaper seemed to explode with SSPX news
from 2009. Whereas before, he was relatively quiet about them.
I know Mr. Vennari has sold advertising to the SSPX since 2009.
This was unprecented.
Do you know if there are any articles from Mr. Vennari where he directly criticized Bishop Fellay?
I don't recall ever seeing any CFN defense of Bishop Williamson.
-
How people can even speculate Mr. Vennari as not being against the sell-out is beyond me.
You guys must be receiving a "double" newspaper subscription and entering into a "double" CFNews website other than the real one...
JV is an important warrior in the fight for Tradition, he has always been.
AF,
I hope you are correct and perhaps I should do more research
on the content of Mr. Vennari's SSPX articles?
I just noticed that his newspaper seemed to explode with SSPX news
from 2009. Whereas before, he was relatively quiet about them.
I know Mr. Vennari has sold advertising to the SSPX since 2009.
This was unprecented.
Do you know if there are any articles from Mr. Vennari where he directly criticized Bishop Fellay?
I don't recall ever seeing any CFN defense of Bishop Williamson.
I must admit it is several years since I visited the CFN website. I often hear people reference it but I'm not in the Fr Gruner fan club of Catholicism. I have become suspicious of it. I am open to doing further research. It's nothing personal against JV but I know nothing about him.
-
-
Forum-
Inspired by the courage and lucidity evinced in the Letter to Bishop Fellay by the District of Great Britain faithful, I propose to draft a similar letter from the US District faithful.
In order for the Letter to have any impact, and to induce brave laity to sign it, several things would need to happen:
1) The letter would be worthless unless it could muster the signatures of 50% of the US faithful;
2) Knowing the US District to be most hostile to supporters of Archbishop Lefebvre, most US faithful would be reticent to sign without anonymity until they could be sure of significant support;
3) Therefore, I propose that that supporters email me their names/parish name/city, to be held in strict confidence until such time as 50% support is reached (If ever);
4) Last I heard, there were approximately 20,000 SSPX faithful in the US District (a few years ago);
5) This means the petition would not be published/sent unless 10,000 signatories could be obtained;
6) In order to obtain this number of signatures, a couple things would need to happen:
Hello Seraphim,
Please give us an update on the US Faithful's Letter to Bp. Fellay?
Do you have a draft worked-up yet?
Do you need any assistance ?
Thanks
:ready-to-eat:
A) The letter would need to appear on all major Catholic websites (e.g., Cathinfo; Ignis Ardens; others), with an email account to send your confidential name/parish/city;
B) I could look into purchasing the entire back page of the Catholic Family News, seeking signatures for this "Bouquet" to send to Menzingen;
B) The letter would probably also need to circulate at SSPX chapels (The best way to do this without detection, and maintaining anonymity, is for someone to print hard copies and have a non-parishioner friend/family member stick them on windshields during Mass). Can we find sufficient support in all SSPX chapels to plaster cars with the letter?
C) This will also have an awareness-raising effect, since many of our people do not frequent the internet, and are probably oblivious of the whole debate/situation
7) If a large, but insufficient number of signatures is obtained, I will ask respondants (whose emails and addresses will have been retained for this purpose) whether they want to publish their resistence anyway.
8) On this score, I would ask you to reflect deeply; there will be consequences (thrown out of the parish; banned from the schools; loss and alienation of accordistas; etc). I do not know that I myself would make my resistence known, unless of course a deal is signed, in which case none of us has any choice.
So at this preliminary stage, I ask you Cathinfo readers to trouble shoot my idea.
Feedback is most welcome.
Once a plan is worked out, I can begin organizing a draft of the letter, which I will again submit to Cathinfo readers only, for critiqueing for a 2-3 day time period (i.e., Time is of the essense).
NOTE TO READERS: There are only a couple of you on this forum who know my true identity. You have the ability to sabotage this entire undertaking, should you choose to do so. I am at your mercy. Betraying me would rob my family of access to the sacraments. Given what is at stake, it seemed to me to be worth the risk. God's will be done.
-
Forum-
Inspired by the courage and lucidity evinced in the Letter to Bishop Fellay by the District of Great Britain faithful, I propose to draft a similar letter from the US District faithful.
In order for the Letter to have any impact, and to induce brave laity to sign it, several things would need to happen:
1) The letter would be worthless unless it could muster the signatures of 50% of the US faithful;
2) Knowing the US District to be most hostile to supporters of Archbishop Lefebvre, most US faithful would be reticent to sign without anonymity until they could be sure of significant support;
3) Therefore, I propose that that supporters email me their names/parish name/city, to be held in strict confidence until such time as 50% support is reached (If ever);
4) Last I heard, there were approximately 20,000 SSPX faithful in the US District (a few years ago);
5) This means the petition would not be published/sent unless 10,000 signatories could be obtained;
6) In order to obtain this number of signatures, a couple things would need to happen:
Hello Seraphim,
Please give us an update on the US Faithful's Letter to Bp. Fellay?
Do you have a draft worked-up yet?
Do you need any assistance ?
Thanks
:ready-to-eat:
A) The letter would need to appear on all major Catholic websites (e.g., Cathinfo; Ignis Ardens; others), with an email account to send your confidential name/parish/city;
B) I could look into purchasing the entire back page of the Catholic Family News, seeking signatures for this "Bouquet" to send to Menzingen;
B) The letter would probably also need to circulate at SSPX chapels (The best way to do this without detection, and maintaining anonymity, is for someone to print hard copies and have a non-parishioner friend/family member stick them on windshields during Mass). Can we find sufficient support in all SSPX chapels to plaster cars with the letter?
C) This will also have an awareness-raising effect, since many of our people do not frequent the internet, and are probably oblivious of the whole debate/situation
7) If a large, but insufficient number of signatures is obtained, I will ask respondants (whose emails and addresses will have been retained for this purpose) whether they want to publish their resistence anyway.
8) On this score, I would ask you to reflect deeply; there will be consequences (thrown out of the parish; banned from the schools; loss and alienation of accordistas; etc). I do not know that I myself would make my resistence known, unless of course a deal is signed, in which case none of us has any choice.
So at this preliminary stage, I ask you Cathinfo readers to trouble shoot my idea.
Feedback is most welcome.
Once a plan is worked out, I can begin organizing a draft of the letter, which I will again submit to Cathinfo readers only, for critiqueing for a 2-3 day time period (i.e., Time is of the essense).
NOTE TO READERS: There are only a couple of you on this forum who know my true identity. You have the ability to sabotage this entire undertaking, should you choose to do so. I am at your mercy. Betraying me would rob my family of access to the sacraments. Given what is at stake, it seemed to me to be worth the risk. God's will be done.
Incredulous-
Update:
1) So far I have received only 3 PM's expressing a willingness to sign a Letter, providing it meets the numbers previously mentioned.......not too promising.
2) My identity has also been discovered by a couple more people at my chapel, bringing the total number who would know from whom this Letter originated to 7.....flying under the radar to get this done is appearing less likely.
3) That being the case, I may just cancel this project, and buy a couple pages in Trad periodicals to place my own anonymous letter as an advertisement (i.e., as someone recently did in the St. Mary's paper).
4) Thoughts?
-
11) please note that it is absolutely critical that we find supporters at the various SSPX chapels to paste the letter to parishioner windshields. Someone needs to take the initiative to pay some pagan school kid $10 to do it during Mass.
I'm too dang greedy to pay some chap $10 to do what I could easily do myself.
:smirk:
-
Forum-
Inspired by the courage and lucidity evinced in the Letter to Bishop Fellay by the District of Great Britain faithful, I propose to draft a similar letter from the US District faithful.
In order for the Letter to have any impact, and to induce brave laity to sign it, several things would need to happen:
...
7) If a large, but insufficient number of signatures is obtained, I will ask respondants (whose emails and addresses will have been retained for this purpose) whether they want to publish their resistence anyway.
8) On this score, I would ask you to reflect deeply; there will be consequences (thrown out of the parish; banned from the schools; loss and alienation of accordistas; etc). I do not know that I myself would make my resistence known, unless of course a deal is signed, in which case none of us has any choice.
So at this preliminary stage, I ask you Cathinfo readers to trouble shoot my idea.
Feedback is most welcome.
Once a plan is worked out, I can begin organizing a draft of the letter, which I will again submit to Cathinfo readers only, for critiqueing for a 2-3 day time period (i.e., Time is of the essense).
NOTE TO READERS: There are only a couple of you on this forum who know my true identity. You have the ability to sabotage this entire undertaking, should you choose to do so. I am at your mercy. Betraying me would rob my family of access to the sacraments. Given what is at stake, it seemed to me to be worth the risk. God's will be done.
Dear Seraphim,
Your offer is magnanimous and your idea most admirable. Therefore, your
intentions are good and commendable. Since you are asking for "feedback," and
this isn't eBay (joke), it seems to me that your credibility would be enhanced if
you were to spell words like the following correctly:
respondents
critiquing
essence
resistance
BTW, I checked into the popularity of misspelling of resistance as "resistence,"
and found the following "cyoot foto" :
(http://ihasahotdog.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/funny-dog-pictures-resistence-is-futile4.jpg)
Anyways, I don't know how I can help, as I'm not a registered member of an
SSPX parish, although my children were all confirmed with their gracious
provision of the episcopate of Bishop Tissier de Malarais, on multiple occasions.
So I feel that I owe them a debt of gratitude, if that makes any difference.
The closest location for me is in Arcadia, CA, where I have noticed (due to it
most often being directly applicable to me) that a lot of the cars have to park on
public streets because the parking lot is not big enough. (Land is far too expensive.)
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...obviously the people behind it are unscrupulous scuм.
Joined less than an hour ago, and already lowering the tone with rash judgement!!!
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...obviously the people behind it are unscrupulous scuм.
Joined less than an hour ago, and already lowering the tone with rash judgment!!!
Do I sense a bit of subterfuge in the works? Who can one believe any more???
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...obviously the people behind it are unscrupulous scuм.
Joined less than an hour ago, and already lowering the tone with rash judgment!!!
Do I sense a bit of subterfuge in the works?
Nope! You're wrong again!
I have nothing whatsoever to do with either the SSPX or "the letter in the British district".
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How people can even speculate Mr. Vennari as not being against the sell-out is beyond me.
You guys must be receiving a "double" newspaper subscription and entering into a "double" CFNews website other than the real one...
JV is an important warrior in the fight for Tradition, he has always been.
AF,
I hope you are correct and perhaps I should do more research
on the content of Mr. Vennari's SSPX articles?
I just noticed that his newspaper seemed to explode with SSPX news
from 2009. Whereas before, he was relatively quiet about them.
I know Mr. Vennari has sold advertising to the SSPX since 2009.
This was unprecented.
Do you know if there are any articles from Mr. Vennari where he directly criticized Bishop Fellay?
I don't recall ever seeing any CFN defense of Bishop Williamson.
I must admit it is several years since I visited the CFN website. I often hear people reference it but I'm not in the Fr Gruner fan club of Catholicism. I have become suspicious of it. I am open to doing further research. It's nothing personal against JV but I know nothing about him.
I found that JV did seem to back off of criticizing the sspx during the last 2-3 years...when I first noticed that he seemed to be a +Fellay cheerleader I stopped reading CFN, and most everything he wrote...though, I will acknowledge that he seems to be making a volte face since the reality has registered with him...that the +Fellay regime is and has been working tooth and nail for a sell-out...still...he is allowed to change his mind, and I don't fault him for that...as long as the change is to get back on the right track.
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Forum-
Inspired by the courage and lucidity evinced in the Letter to Bishop Fellay by the District of Great Britain faithful, I propose to draft a similar letter from the US District faithful.
In order for the Letter to have any impact, and to induce brave laity to sign it, several things would need to happen:
...
7) If a large, but insufficient number of signatures is obtained, I will ask respondants (whose emails and addresses will have been retained for this purpose) whether they want to publish their resistence anyway.
8) On this score, I would ask you to reflect deeply; there will be consequences (thrown out of the parish; banned from the schools; loss and alienation of accordistas; etc). I do not know that I myself would make my resistence known, unless of course a deal is signed, in which case none of us has any choice.
So at this preliminary stage, I ask you Cathinfo readers to trouble shoot my idea.
Feedback is most welcome.
Once a plan is worked out, I can begin organizing a draft of the letter, which I will again submit to Cathinfo readers only, for critiqueing for a 2-3 day time period (i.e., Time is of the essense).
NOTE TO READERS: There are only a couple of you on this forum who know my true identity. You have the ability to sabotage this entire undertaking, should you choose to do so. I am at your mercy. Betraying me would rob my family of access to the sacraments. Given what is at stake, it seemed to me to be worth the risk. God's will be done.
Dear Seraphim,
Your offer is magnanimous and your idea most admirable. Therefore, your
intentions are good and commendable. Since you are asking for "feedback," and
this isn't eBay (joke), it seems to me that your credibility would be enhanced if
you were to spell words like the following correctly:
respondents
critiquing
essence
resistance
BTW, I checked into the popularity of misspelling of resistance as "resistence,"
and found the following "cyoot foto" :
(http://ihasahotdog.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/funny-dog-pictures-resistence-is-futile4.jpg)
Anyways, I don't know how I can help, as I'm not a registered member of an
SSPX parish, although my children were all confirmed with their gracious
provision of the episcopate of Bishop Tissier de Malarais, on multiple occasions.
So I feel that I owe them a debt of gratitude, if that makes any difference.
The closest location for me is in Arcadia, CA, where I have noticed (due to it
most often being directly applicable to me) that a lot of the cars have to park on
public streets because the parking lot is not big enough. (Land is far too expensive.)
What is that thing... a baby Boxer ?
-
(http://ihasahotdog.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/funny-dog-pictures-resistence-is-futile4.jpg)
What is that thing... a baby Boxer ?
That is the main ingredient of Cho Xao Sa Ot and Hundeschinken.
-
Get a move on, America!
Just one of you, write a draft. Or all of you. Stop wittering about it. Post the draft here, have some corrections made. Then, you should have a signable letter.
Writing a letter is not a group task - nor is it something that needs long discussion.
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it seems to me that your credibility would be enhanced if
you were to spell words like the following correctly:
respondents
critiquing
essence
resistance
This reminds me of a 'peeve' I recently had, but with individuals who had "Phd" after their name. Mind you, these 'professors' taught and get paid handsomely at a N.O. University, but had the darnedest time spelling correctly. :smash-pc: I posted in a discussion thread: "SPELL CHECK IS FREE, USE IT" and nearly got thrown out of the school. On top of that, the name "FRANCISCAN" was mostly misspelled. You wouldn't believe how they 'maligned' the name of Dear St. Francis. Don't they see the red squiggly line underneath the word as they type? Don't they roughly :reading: proof read before they hit 'send'? Aren't we supposed to pray before we hit 'send'? Ave Maria! :pray:
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Here is the sample I wanted to cite in last post. I've left out the 'professors' name but it has the letters Phd at the end:
"I agree with you that the Franciscian Values are really values that can be seen and are practiced in corporate America. The beauty of the Francisican Value is that you do not need to believe in a certain religon to buy into the Franciscian Values."
Professor at N.O.University. :confused1:
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Here is the sample I wanted to cite in last post. I've left out the 'professors' name but it has the letters Phd at the end:
"I agree with you that the Franciscian Values are really values that can be seen and are practiced in corporate America. The beauty of the Francisican Value is that you do not need to believe in a certain religon to buy into the Franciscian Values."
Professor at N.O.University. :confused1:
Tell me why the 'dislike post vote'. Who are you? Come clean! What is there to dislike?
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Here is the sample I wanted to cite in last post. I've left out the 'professors' name but it has the letters Phd at the end:
"I agree with you that the Franciscian Values are really values that can be seen and are practiced in corporate America. The beauty of the Francisican Value is that you do not need to believe in a certain religon to buy into the Franciscian Values."
Professor at N.O.University. :confused1:
Let me guess: Professor Elmer Phud?
Franciscian? Seriously? Maybe he was trying to rhyme with Muciscian?
A Muciscian a musician wearing a brown robe with a hood.
And Francisican is a contraction of Francis-I-can. That's what you say when
St. Francis asks you to do something special for the Order.
What's a "religon?" Does it have to do with a Klingon?
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Forum-
Inspired by the courage and lucidity evinced in the Letter to Bishop Fellay by the District of Great Britain faithful, I propose to draft a similar letter from the US District faithful.
In order for the Letter to have any impact, and to induce brave laity to sign it, several things would need to happen:
1) The letter would be worthless unless it could muster the signatures of 50% of the US faithful;
2) Knowing the US District to be most hostile to supporters of Archbishop Lefebvre, most US faithful would be reticent to sign without anonymity until they could be sure of significant support;
3) Therefore, I propose that that supporters email me their names/parish name/city, to be held in strict confidence until such time as 50% support is reached (If ever);
4) Last I heard, there were approximately 20,000 SSPX faithful in the US District (a few years ago);
5) This means the petition would not be published/sent unless 10,000 signatories could be obtained;
6) In order to obtain this number of signatures, a couple things would need to happen:
Hello Seraphim,
Please give us an update on the US Faithful's Letter to Bp. Fellay?
Do you have a draft worked-up yet?
Do you need any assistance ?
Thanks
:ready-to-eat:
A) The letter would need to appear on all major Catholic websites (e.g., Cathinfo; Ignis Ardens; others), with an email account to send your confidential name/parish/city;
B) I could look into purchasing the entire back page of the Catholic Family News, seeking signatures for this "Bouquet" to send to Menzingen;
B) The letter would probably also need to circulate at SSPX chapels (The best way to do this without detection, and maintaining anonymity, is for someone to print hard copies and have a non-parishioner friend/family member stick them on windshields during Mass). Can we find sufficient support in all SSPX chapels to plaster cars with the letter?
C) This will also have an awareness-raising effect, since many of our people do not frequent the internet, and are probably oblivious of the whole debate/situation
7) If a large, but insufficient number of signatures is obtained, I will ask respondants (whose emails and addresses will have been retained for this purpose) whether they want to publish their resistence anyway.
8) On this score, I would ask you to reflect deeply; there will be consequences (thrown out of the parish; banned from the schools; loss and alienation of accordistas; etc). I do not know that I myself would make my resistence known, unless of course a deal is signed, in which case none of us has any choice.
So at this preliminary stage, I ask you Cathinfo readers to trouble shoot my idea.
Feedback is most welcome.
Once a plan is worked out, I can begin organizing a draft of the letter, which I will again submit to Cathinfo readers only, for critiqueing for a 2-3 day time period (i.e., Time is of the essense).
NOTE TO READERS: There are only a couple of you on this forum who know my true identity. You have the ability to sabotage this entire undertaking, should you choose to do so. I am at your mercy. Betraying me would rob my family of access to the sacraments. Given what is at stake, it seemed to me to be worth the risk. God's will be done.
Incredulous-
Update:
1) So far I have received only 3 PM's expressing a willingness to sign a Letter, providing it meets the numbers previously mentioned.......not too promising.
2) My identity has also been discovered by a couple more people at my chapel, bringing the total number who would know from whom this Letter originated to 7.....flying under the radar to get this done is appearing less likely.
3) That being the case, I may just cancel this project, and buy a couple pages in Trad periodicals to place my own anonymous letter as an advertisement (i.e., as someone recently did in the St. Mary's paper).
4) Thoughts?
Seraphim & Matthew:
I have some time tomorrow and will prepare a letter DRAFT.
I'll send it to you for review by Catholicinfo of by private emai.
Does that sound acceptable?
Incred :cowboy:
-
Please include strong language about Krah.
Please ask that Bp. Fellay and his power clique resign from all positions of authority, including Fr. Heggenberger, Editor of The Angelus—his vetting and defense of "The Saint of the Sanhedrin" article cannot go unpunished any more than Krah's despicable Zionism can go unpunished.
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The same letter has been translated to spanish. We have collected signatures and here it is:
Carta abierta a Mons. Fellay enviada por algunos fieles preocupados del Distrito de Gran Bretaña de la SSPX
Junio de 2012
Su Excelencia:
Queremos acercarnos a Usted, en espíritu de caridad, con el fin de presentarle ciertas preocupaciones que queremos dirigirle como a Superior General de la SSPX.
Durante algún tiempo hemos escuchado reportes sobre un acuerdo práctico con Roma. Nos preocupa el daño potencial pueda suponer a la integridad de la Fe; que es nuestra Fe y la Fe nuestros hijos y nietos.
Intenciones de Roma respecto a un acuerdo con la SSPX
Varios sacerdotes de alto nivel en la SSPX (padres Pfluger, Schmidberger, y otros) han afirmado que Roma está preparada a dar “carte blanche” a la SSPX; en otras palabras, a aceptar a la SSPX como ella es, sin compromiso. Sin embargo, en contradicción con esto, tenemos las palabras publicadas por varios individuos de alto rango en Roma, incluyendo el portavoz de prensa del Vaticano, quien dejó claro que ellos miran esto como una aceptación por parte de la SSPX de la versión de religión del Vaticano II con el fin de lograr un “retorno a Roma”. Al mismo tiempo, se nos advierte que no deberíamos prestar atención a los “rumores”. Puesto que existe una contradicción entre las dos versiones acerca de lo que ha sido ofrecido a la FSSPX, y puesto que el reporte de prensa del Vaticano no es un rumor, ¿debemos pues concluir que no debemos prestar atención a las palabras del Padre Pfluger por ejemplo?
Su propia posición acerca del Concilio Vaticano II
También estamos escandalizados por su reciente comentario publicado en todo el mundo por la CNS, que:
“[gracias a las discusiones doctrinales con Roma] vemos que muchas cosas que nosotros hubiéramos condenado como provenientes del Concilio son de hecho no del Concilio sino de la interpretación de éste”.
…y que:
“El Papa dice que el Concilio debe ser puesto entre la gran Tradición de la Iglesia… estas son declaraciones con las que estamos de acuerdo totalmente, absolutamente”. (CNS, mayo 2012)
Nosotros, los signatarios de esta carta, deseamos puntualizar que cuando usted dice “nosotros” usted no habla por nosotros. Además nos preguntamos cómo usted puede reconciliar ésta idea de que el Concilio fue mal interpretado con las palabras de Monseñor Lefebvre (en sus libros “Lo han destronado” y “Yo acuso al Concilio” por ejemplo), o incluso con sus propias declaraciones que fueron hechas no hace mucho tiempo como:
“Ratzinger debería prepararse para una directa revisión de los textos del Concilio y no solamente denunciar su incorrecta hermenéutica (interpretación)”. (CNA, 30 Octubre 2007)
Desde ciertas instancias nos urgen a mostrar lealtad, obediencia y unidad. Dejando de lado la torpe memoria de cómo estas mismas palabras fueron usadas para silenciar la oposición a las enseñanzas conciliares y a la nueva Misa hace 40 años, nos sentimos obligados a preguntar: ¿A cuál Monseñor Fellay se espera que nosotros obedezcamos?
¿Al Monseñor Fellay del 2007, quien declaró que el Vaticano II debe ser revisado, o el Monseñor Fellay del 2012 que piensa que el Vaticano II fue solamente mal interpretado y puede ser aceptado? Además ¿Cuál Monseñor Fellay es más consistente con el ejemplo de Monseñor Lefebvre?
Su actitud hacia Benedicto XVI
También debemos confesarnos confundidos, por decir lo menos, considerando sus recientes declaraciones sobre Benedicto XVI. Se ha dicho que nadie en la FSSPX tiene el derecho de rehusar si el Papa insiste en un acuerdo canónico. Usted mismo ha hablado de él en términos como si fuera nuestro líder en la lucha por la Tradición.
“Pero no estamos solos en la obra de defensa de la Fe… Es el Papa mismo quien lo hace, ese es su trabajo. Y nosotros estamos llamado a ayudar al Santo Padre, entonces, hagámoslo”: (CNS, Mayo 2012)
¿Podemos recordarle que éste es el mismo hombre (entonces Cardenal Ratzinger) en quien Monseñor Lefebvre sintió que no podía confiar en 1988? ¿Que éste es el mismo hombre que profesó herejías de las cuales nunca se retractó, como Monseñor Tissier de Mallerais ha señalado en diversas ocasiones?
¿Que en la mente del mismo Benedicto XVI, la idea de “defender la Fe” parece incluir la especulación sobre la no existencia del Limbo, la posible probidad moral de la contracepción cuando es usada por los depravados y que parece creer que la conversión, bautismo y confesión de Cristo no son necesarias a los judíos para ser salvos?
Dado que una persona tan prominente como usted normalmente no es ignorante de estas cosas, ¿es irrazonable para nosotros concluir que usted está consciente y deliberadamente pasando por alto las enseñanzas heterodoxas y el liderazgo de Benedicto XVI? El sitio oficial del distrito de Estados Unidos de la FSSPX actualmente publica un artículo pretendiendo mostrar que, siguiendo el
ejemplo de San Basilio de Cesárea, la actitud correcta de los católicos de cara a la heterodoxia y a la herejía en altos puestos sería el guardar silencio de cara a la apostasía con el objeto de que ellos tengan cabida para continuar haciendo el bien. Nosotros no podemos ni por un minuto imaginarnos que Monseñor Lefebvre hubiera accedido a que esta fuera la estrategia de la Fraternidad en ese tiempo particular, ni tampoco creemos que él hubiera tolerado ni por un momento que tal idea fuera publicada por o en la Fraternidad en estas circunstancias. La reacción de sus compañeros obispos de la Fraternidad indicarían que un acercamiento (o más que eso) con Roma en este tiempo presente está, por decir lo menos, tomando un precipitado y demasiado peligroso paso.
Nos damos cuenta que permaneciendo fieles al legado del Gran Arzobispo Lefebvre, permaneciendo fieles a la Tradición Católica, estamos colocados en desacuerdo con usted y sus liderazgo. Nosotros ni deseamos ésto ni lo pedimos: la causa reside en usted, por lo tanto en usted está la solución. Nosotros, las ovejas que están adheridas a la Santa Tradición gustosamente nos acercamos a la Fraternidad, porque la Fraternidad habla con la voz del Pastor Eterno y nosotros reconocimos Su Voz en lo que el Arzobispo y sus seguidores fieles proclamaron. Lo que resulte de las presentes circunstancias, nosotros, el Rebaño fiel a la Santa Tradición y a la fe de la Iglesia Eterna- nosotros no seremos los que cambien. Permaneceremos fieles a laTradición sean cual fueren las consecuencias.
Rumores, información, apertura y honestidad.
Finalmente, deseamos expresarle nuestra profunda preocupación de que en medio de esta confusión, en medio de lo que parece ser una gran agitación afectando a la FSSPX (y por lo tanto a todos nosotros y por implicación, al futuro de la Tradición y de la Iglesia entera) parece haber una reticencia por parte de los líderes de la FSSPX, una renuencia para dar información en un espíritu de honestidad y apertura.
Nos dicen por un lado que no deberíamos prestar atención a los rumores o las habladurías en internet, y solo tomar en cuenta la información que proviene de las fuentes oficiales de la FSSPX. Por otro lado, cuando hechos sólidos salen a la luz (como la carta de los tres Obispos, o su reciente entrevista con CNS, o el comunicado de prensa del Vaticano acerca de la FSSPX) se supone que tampoco debemos de verlos.
Por un lado, se nos dice que deberíamos obtener nuestra información solamente de los órganos oficiales de la FSSPX (DICI, sspx.org, pius.info etc.). Por el otro lado éstos mismos órganos han manifiestamente escondido de sus lectores cualquier hecho que no ayude a la causa que están tratando de alcanzar (concretamente, el argumento a favor de llegar a un acuerdo práctico con Roma). En ninguna parte de DICI, o de SSPX.org, o de Pius.info se encontrarán los comunicados de prensa de Mayo hechos por el Vaticano, ninguna referencia al hecho que la mayoría de los Obispos de la Fraternidad, así como una gran porción de sacerdotes de la FSSPX o de los fieles adheridos a ésta –muy posiblemente la mayoría- estarían en contra de la idea de un acuerdo práctico con Roma en este tiempo.
Somos castigados por leer lo que se llamó correspondencia privada, cuando nuestro único deseo es poner un fin al rumor informándonos de los hechos.
La carta que los tres Obispos de la Fraternidad le enviaron el mes pasado, no contiene ninguna información personal, trata solamente asuntos públicos que afectan al futuro de la FSSPX, por lo tanto es de algún modo poco honrado que sea llamada correspondencia privada.
Lo que es más, parece que hay un doble estándar al permitir a los clérigos que están a favor de llegar a un acuerdo práctico de expresar sus opiniones personales desde el púlpito, mientras que al mismo tiempo se requiere absoluto silencio de los que están en contra de ese acuerdo. Por lo tanto, nosotros nos sentimos justificados tanto en leer como en circular esa carta a otros fieles Católicos quienes, como nosotros, están preocupados por el futuro de la FSSPX y quienes –excepto al ver esa carta- deben sentirse solos y confundidos.
En síntesis, si Su Excelencia desea que los fieles confíen en los líderes de la FSSPX, si los fieles adheridos a la FSSPX son exhortados a no prestar atención a los rumores, entonces nosotros creemos que usted debe dar los pasos necesarios para disipar el actual clima de miedo y desconfianza, y permitir que todas las opiniones sobre el asunto sean declaradas abiertamente, toda información (que se refiera, por ejemplo, a si la Roma de hoy se ha convertido de su modernismo en un grado significante) circule abiertamente, y es con este espíritu de honestidad y apertura que le escribimos esta carta a usted, con una genuina preocupación por el futuro de la Tradición en el mundo.
El futuro de la SSPX y el futuro de la Tradición
Cuando Usted se convirtió en Superior General de la SSPX en 1994, tomó su lugar como cabeza de una Sociedad que estaba fuertemente unida, fervorosa, devota y desprendida, que sabía qué representaba y por qué, y que tenía una clara visión de hacia dónde iba. Nuestro Señor confió esta Sociedad en sus manos. Si Él ahora le pidiera cuentas de lo que Usted ha hecho con esa misma Sociedad, ¿qué podría mostrarle? ¿Qué tipo de Sociedad legará Usted a su sucesor?
Es algo clarísimo para nosotros que Roma no se ha convertido, que Roma está tan empapada de modernismo como nunca lo estuvo. Lo que no está claro para nosotros es lo que están haciendo las directivas de la SSPX y por qué, esto es, sus mismas actitudes, creencias o motivos. El Arzobispo Lefébvre nos enseñó admirablemente bien, tanto a través de sus escritos como con el ejemplo personal que él dio al mundo, que el deber de los católicos no es el de meramente creer de un modo pasivo. Es también apostólico, de convertir el mundo y de señalar y denunciar el error cuando uno lo ve. En su día, el Arzobispo Lefébvre denunció los varios errores difundidos por las autoridades de la Iglesia, incluyendo el Papa. Él fundó la SSPX no como un fin en sí mismo, sino como medio para un fin: siendo el fin la continuación de la Tradición y la denuncia del error. Él no fundó la SSPX para que ésta… no fuera provocativa - agresiva, para usar algunas más de sus palabras recientes. Estamos perplejos y consternados ante el hecho de que ciertos miembros de la Fraternidad parezcan ver un motivo, un fin, que excede aquél de predicar la Verdad y denunciar el error, a tiempo y a destiempo, y están, por tanto, deseando guardar silencio ante los muchos errores y males de nuestros días.
Es nuestra ferviente esperanza que el futuro de la SSPX y el futuro de la Tradición sean, como en el pasado, una y la misma cosa. Cualquiera sea el caso, sin embargo, haremos todo lo que esté en nuestro poder para creer y difundir la Verdad, para denunciar el error, y haciéndolo así permanecer fieles a Nuestro Señor y a Su Iglesia, a la Tradición, y al legado del Arzobispo Lefébvre, cualquiera sea el costo y ya elija Su Excelencia abandonarnos o permanecer con nosotros.
San Pío X: ruega por nosotros.
Atentamente:
Luis Felipe Cuello Vargas (Mexico)
Linda Domínguez Vallejo (Mexico)
Jorge Antonio Cuello (Mexico)
Luis Arturo Cuello (Mexico)
Miguel Francisco Cuello (Mexico)
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Erick Lombell (Mexico)
Ana De Valle (Mexico)
Marcela Lombell De Valle (Mexico)
Arturo E. Luján Barragán (Mexico)
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Maria Legarreta - Mexico
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Victor Manuel Montiel Solis –Mexico
María Teresa Tovar –Mexico-EUA
Dra. Marcela Thiery-Patiño de Koch .Mexico
Cesar Jesus Saenz Chavarría. Mexico
Claudia Ines Hernández de Sáenz. Mexico
David Antonio Sáenz Hernández. Mexico
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Alonso Farrés Baeza (Mexico)
Antonio Farrés Chavira (Mexico)
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Luis Ernesto Valles Jáquez (Mexico)
Diana María Valles Jáquez (Mexico)
Daniela Valles Jáquez (Mexico)
Ana María Jáquez Treviño (Mexico)
Sandra Jáquez Trevizo (Mexico)
Cassandra Meylin Jaquez Trevizo (Mexico)
Esperanza Rubio Sauzameda (Mexico)
Ingrid Esperanza Castro Rubio (Mexico)
Alejandro Hernández Rubio (Mexico)
Jerónimo Zoto (Mexico)
Luis Gardea Duarte (Mexico)
Blanca Valenzuela de Duarte (Mexico)
Maria Eugenia Villafuerte (Mexico)
Isabel Villafuerte (Mexico)
Gabriel Pastrana Villafuerte (Mexico)
Luis Pastrana Villafuerte (Mexico)
Jesús José González (Mexico)
Albertina Domínguez Marenco (Mexico)
María Andrea Cervantes (Mexico)
Cecilia Hernández gαytán (Mexico)
Carolina Piñón Hernández (Mexico)
Héctor Piñón Hernández (Mexico)
Miriam Delgado de Hernández (Mexico)
Eduardo Hernández Delgado (Mexico)
Mariana Hernández Delgado (Mexico)
Cristina Hernández Delgado (Mexico)
Daniel Hernández Delgado (Mexico)
Armida gαytán de Hernández (Mexico)
Lucía Hernández gαytán (Mexico)
Rosalina Hernández gαytán (Mexico)
Abrahan Hernández Castro (Mexico)
José Mora Ruacho (Mexico)
Armida Alicia Medrano (Mexico)
Luis Carlos Ramírez Gómez (Mexico)
José Miguel Payán Gómez (Mexico)
Leonardo Adolfo Morán Nuñez (Mexico)
Jessica Gómez Anchando (Mexico)
Ian Esven Mendoza Gómez (Mexico)
Candelaria Cinco (Mexico)
Ernesto Cinco (Mexico)
Zyomara Quiñónez (Mexico)
Félix Valerio (Perú)
Axel Álvarez Frati (Argentina)
María Carlota Lassalle (Argentina)
Lucio E. Silva Zambrano –Argentina
Gerardo H. Valenzuela Argentina
Miguel Angel Tambascia Argentina
Carlos Nougué (Brazil)
Rosa Clara Nougué (Brazil)
Leonardo Maciel (Brazil)
Antonio Carlos Machado Junior, -Brazil
Clodoveu Alves de Araújo Júnior –Brazil
Burkhard Strauss
Marion Kurtz Strauss brazil
Tiago Gadotti (Brazil)
Helga dalla Líbera Oliveira (Brazil,
Jamile Fátima Jehayem Xavier. Brazil
Bruno furini – Brazil
Marcelo Maciel (Brazil)
Othon Souto Campos –Brazil.
Rodrigo Cassio Rodrigues (Brazil)
Alejandro Bayer (Colombia)
Eliana Arellano (Colombia)
Daniel Villegas Londoño (Colombia)
Carolina Osorio de Villegas (Colombia)
Juan Pablo de la Cruz Zuluaga Hyrtado (Colombia)
Valeria María Isabel de la Cruz Zuluaga Hurtado (Colombia)
Jose Pedro Tomás de la Cruz Zuluaga Hurtado (Colombia)
Diego Osorio Velez (Colombia)
Marleny Restrepo Gonzalez (Colombia)
Esperanza Cedeño (Colombia)
Leny Yaneth Ramírez Montoya (Colombia)
Leny Yaneth Ramírez Montoya- (Colombia)
Julie Aguirre Carvajal.-(Colombia)
Noel Christie Danker (Singapur)
Mary-Anne Danker (Singapur)
Raphael M-F Danker (Singapur)
Gil Roseira Cardoso Dias (Portugal)
Luciano Pérez Vilatela (Portugal)
Roberto López-Geissmann h. -El Salvador
Dr Marie Eunmi Kim, Korea
Brigitt JIwon Choi-Korea
Peter Hyungwook Choi-Korea
Capitullina Sunja Lee-Korea
Rita Minsook Cho-Korea
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Sunbeam:
How was it that Father Baker was able to survive for the next 29 years? How was it that he was able to establish a new chapel which, in fact, was blessed by Archbishop Lefebvre himself?
It was by the support of the laity, especially in the first instance, of his own parishioners who understood the spirit of the law, as against its letter. They understood that the salvation of souls had an indisputable priority over a disputable edict with a Roman postmark; they understood that with the grace of the sacrament of confirmation they had received new responsibilities; they understood that, despite threats from the chancery, it was their duty to give Father Baker the active support that was needed for him to remain faithful to his ordination oath, and to fulfil his part in the preservation of Catholic Tradition.
This is a touching story of laity support for an embattled priest. As it might touch the future course of priests and bishops who now find themselves under a Menzingen interdict, it may offer a guiding principle. The three bishops, in particular, need to declare themselves. Are they going to remain in the Society, or are they going to formally sever connections with +Fellay & Co.? Once the three start making definite decisions, supportive lay folk can then move deliberately to help them, But as it stands, except for priests who have already left the Society and set up shop elsewhere, there are few Society priests, and certainly none of the bishops, who have publicly stated their future intentions regarding the situation. Perhaps after the General Chapter, they'll all be clear about what they have to do.
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I would not expecct a definate declaration from any of the 3 until Menzingen makes their announcement.
But I would find it difficult to believe the 3 are not forming their contingency plan right now, in preparation from that eventuality.
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Here is the sample I wanted to cite in last post. I've left out the 'professors' name but it has the letters Phd at the end:
"I agree with you that the Franciscian Values are really values that can be seen and are practiced in corporate America. The beauty of the Francisican Value is that you do not need to believe in a certain religon to buy into the Franciscian Values."
Professor at N.O.University. :confused1:
Let me guess: Professor Elmer Phud?
Franciscian? Seriously? Maybe he was trying to rhyme with Muciscian?
A Muciscian a musician wearing a brown robe with a hood.
And Francisican is a contraction of Francis-I-can. That's what you say when
St. Francis asks you to do something special for the Order.
What's a "religon?" Does it have to do with a Klingon?
That is a stitch! :laugh1: :laugh1: :laugh1: Sorry it took me this long to see it!
Thanks! :cheers:
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Fellay needs to be put out to pasture via NO CONFIDENCE VOTE by those serving under him and the laity.
I hereby nominate Bishop Williamson.
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Well I've just joined today and this is my second post.
Seraphim, watch Fr Chazal's sermon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agEDvUGOHT0. Maybe that will inspire you and keep you going as well as help write the letter in charity.
Yes, my name is on the UK list :scared2: and some may not like me for it, but what can I say? As a casualty of VII I don't want to be under modernist Rome.
Priests of the SSPX have stuck their neck out, can we do less?
Courage! In JMJ! Will keep you in my prayers! :pray:
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I wonder if anyone in Menzingen has read the story of Yertle the Turtle by Dr. Seuss?
I just heard it tonight, as my wife read it to our children.