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Offline Cristera

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« on: August 13, 2013, 11:03:15 AM »
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    ... here is the article published by the Traditional Dominicans... But the interesting point is that it does quote the famous theologian Fr. Julio Meinvielle, on the possibility of there existing inside the Church two parallel Churches; much in the same manner as ABL did a little bit latter.

    One Hierarchy for two Churches.
    [taken from Le Sel de la Terre n-59 Winter edition 2006-2007.]

    In a letter written by Mons. Giovanni Benelli on behalf of the Pope to Mons. Lefebvre, dated the 25 of July of 1976; Msgr. Benelli uses for the first time the phrase that would become famous: “The Conciliar Church” :

    "If they (the seminarians), have good will and are seriously prepared for a priestly ministry in true fidelity to the Conciliar Church, we will find the best solution for them.”

    We have frequently spoken of the Conciliar Church in Le Sel de la Terre, but it is not useless to return to this question, as it is so important.

    The question that we wish to treat of here is the following: "Does the Catholic Church and the Conciliar Church have the same hierarchy?"


    To begin with, where is our starting point? We will do so according to the four causes that Scholastic Philosophy generally distinguishes.

    A society is a moral being (in the case of the Church, there is not only a moral union. There also exists a spiritual union due to the common participation in the same Supernatural goods (for example “faith”): It is a union of persons that are united for the same end (the same common good), of which one can distinguish:

    - The material cause, is the persons that are united in this society. In the case of the Catholic Church as in the Conciliar church, it is those who are Baptized (with a valid Baptism).

    - The efficient cause is the founder the society: Our Lord Jesus Christ, in the case of the Catholic Church; the Conciliar Popes in the case of the Conciliar Church. After the Ascension of its founder, the authority (established by Him) that continues to fulfill the role of efficient cause and maintains the unity of the society. Currently, it is the same hierarchy  that fulfills the role of efficient cause for the Catholic Church and the Conciliar Church.  

    - The final cause, is the common good sought by the members of the society: in the case of the Catholic Church, the sought for good is salvation; in the case of the Conciliar Church, the sought for good is-more or less consciously-the unity of the human race (Ecumenism in its broadest signification).  “What best defines the entire crisis of the Church is truly this ecumenical-liberal spirit” (Msgr. Lefebvre, conference of April 4, 1978).

    - The formal cause, is the union of wills and spirits of the members in the attaining to the common good.   In the Catholic Church, there is a union of spirits in the profession of the same faith and the union of wills in the use of the same Sacraments and the obedience to the same pastors (therefore by the obedience to the same laws that they establish, in other words, the same code of canon law).  In the Conciliar Church one finds the same union of spirits, in the acceptance of the same teachings (those of the Council), and the union of the wills in the practice of the new liturgy, and in the obedience to the new directives of postconciliar hierarchy (as in the new code of canon law).  This union is not as strict in the Conciliar Church as it is in the Catholic Church; as it enough that one “accepts the Council”, then they can do what they want).

    We can define the Catholic Church as the society of the baptized that seek to save their souls, professing the Catholic faith, practicing the same Catholic worship and obeying the same pastors, successor of the apostles.  As to the Conciliar Church, she is the society of the baptized that obey the directives of the Popes and the current bishops in their will to promote the Conciliar Ecumenism, and as a consequence accept all the teachings of the Council, participating in the new liturgy and accepting the new code of canon law.

    Under these conditions, is it possible that the same hierarchy can direct both societies?  

    Argument of Authority

    We are not the first to affirm that both Churches have the same hierarchy. One can find this affirmation with the majority of those who have treated this question before ourselves.

    “That there presently exists two churches, with one and the same Pope, Paul VI at the head of the one and the other, we are not saying anything new, we are not inventing this, we are only affirming that this is the case.”

    Gustave Corcao in Itinéraires magazine, Nov. 1974; latter Fr. Bruckberger in “L’Aurore” the 18 of March of 1976, has also stated the same publicly: “The religious crisis is unlike that of the XV Century in having in one Church two or three Popes simultaneously; now its having one Pope for two Churches, the Catholic and the post Conciliar[…]

    These modern times present us with the opposite spectacle of the “Great Western Schism”: Two Churches, with only one Pope.

    The most interesting text, is that of Fr. Julio Meinvielle, from 1970: it is the first text that we know of that treats on this same subject. The Argentinian priest wrote-and it is the conclusion of his masterful book: “De la Cabala al progresismo” [from the Kabala to progressivism]:

    “One same Pope would preside over both Churches, that exteriorly and apparently would not be but one.  The Pope, with his ambiguous actions would allow the ambiguity to maintain this confusion in place.  Because on the one hand, while he would continue to profess an irreproachable doctrine, would be the head of Church of the Promises.  On the other hand, by his equivocal actions, even if irreproachable, would appear to be encouraging the subversion and supporting the Gnostic Church of Publicity.

    Ecclesiology has not sufficiently the possibility of a hypothesis like the one that we have here proposed.  But if one reflects well, the Promise of assistance to the Church is reduced to an assistance that would impede error from introducing itself into the See of Rome and into the very Church, and that the Church would not disappear or be destroyed by its enemies.


    Our Lord has promised that the gates of hell-the infernal powers-will never prevail against His Church.  Therefore She is indefectible: She must continue until the end of the world, with the purpose of providing to the souls of good will, the means of salvation, which are: the sound doctrine, valid sacraments,  the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, and an authentic spiritual life. All of this supposes that the Catholic Hierarchy will endure until the end of the world, and will be able-at least for those who truly want to, fulfill with the role of conducting souls to Heaven.

    Nonetheless, our Lord also has predicted that His second coming would be preceded by a great tribulation:  “For there shall be then great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, neither shall be.” (Mat. 24. 21) This tribulation will cause such a loss of faith, that our Lord asks if when He returns to the Earth in His second coming,  will He even find the faith? (Luc. 18.8) This Apostasy is predicted by St. Paul (II Thess. 3. 4)  St. Thomas commentating on this verse, explains that the Christian nations will emancipate themselves from the faith of the Roman Church. This seems to indicate that a good portion of the hierarchy, will be unfaithful to its mission.

    During the time that will precede the coming of our Lord, the sun will no Longer give its light (Mat. 18.8), which in the symbolic sense, signifies that the Church and Christian society will lose its influence.
    End of the article from Sel de La Terre.




    Offline CWA

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    « Reply #1 on: August 14, 2013, 10:08:54 AM »
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  • Interesting article. Thanks!


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