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Offline Mabel

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Odd email from my former SSPX chapel
« on: October 13, 2013, 09:37:44 PM »
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  • I just got an email from the SSPX chapel that I attended many, many years ago. They still haven't updated their email list.

    "Fatima & Akita" is the title.
    The first part contains some nice pictures regarding Fatima, the second part attempts to tie Akita to Fatima, interweaving information regarding the two apparitions.

    I don't normally pay attention to post-Vatican 2 prophecy, so Akita  isn't on my radar. However, I think this is truly odd. There is also reference to Ratzinger in the Akita portion of the text. Any thoughts?

    Maybe this is a bulk emailing and I got the version for that chapel.


    Offline Mama ChaCha

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    Odd email from my former SSPX chapel
    « Reply #1 on: October 14, 2013, 01:08:10 AM »
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  • It's difficult to tell without reading the text.
    Specifically the comment concerning BXVI.
    Matthew 6:34
    " Be not therefore solicitous for to morrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof."


    Offline clare

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    Odd email from my former SSPX chapel
    « Reply #2 on: October 14, 2013, 02:44:43 AM »
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  • Bishop Williamson's letter, March 1990, "Our Lady's Apparitions on World Problems":

    Quote
    Hence in Akita we are dealing with a Church-approved intervention of Mary, as sure in this respect as Lourdes or La Salette or Fatima.

    Offline InDominoSperavi

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    Odd email from my former SSPX chapel
    « Reply #3 on: October 14, 2013, 03:19:23 AM »
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  • I am sure that Akita is from the devil. I have collected many proves. I am preparing an article about that problem. It would have been already published if new events weren't always happening, making me busy. I will publish on this forum my article in french within one month and you will be able to read it with google translation. God bless you all.

    Offline Mabel

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    Odd email from my former SSPX chapel
    « Reply #4 on: October 14, 2013, 10:28:09 AM »
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  • Quote from: InDominoSperavi
    I am sure that Akita is from the devil. I have collected many proves. I am preparing an article about that problem. It would have been already published if new events weren't always happening, making me busy. I will publish on this forum my article in french within one month and you will be able to read it with google translation. God bless you all.


    Let me know. My French isn't so bad, I will probably be able to read it without translation.

    I guess I'm wary of apparitions easily approved by the Vatican 2 church.


    Offline InDominoSperavi

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    « Reply #5 on: October 15, 2013, 07:31:19 AM »
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  • I am going to work on it as soon as possible.

    Offline Matthew

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    Odd email from my former SSPX chapel
    « Reply #6 on: October 15, 2013, 10:59:33 AM »
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  • Quote from: InDominoSperavi
    I am sure that Akita is from the devil. I have collected many proves. I am preparing an article about that problem. It would have been already published if new events weren't always happening, making me busy. I will publish on this forum my article in french within one month and you will be able to read it with google translation. God bless you all.


    With all due respect to your many "proves", I have looked into the apparition myself, and it seems quite worthy of belief, even if one decides to not trust the approbation of post-Vatican II authorities.

    Sister Agnes Sasagawa was (is?) a sister in a very conservative convent, whose mission in life is to adore the Blessed Sacrament (side note: I realize that many in the Novus Ordo have lost the Faith, or are losing it -- these sisters have not.)

    Sister Agnes received the Stigmata, which resulted in her -- and the other Sister -- receiving Communion on the tongue thenceforward. "By their fruits you shall know them."

    She was a devout Sister, her life was changed by the apparition, Our Lady weeping for modern man is certainly believable -- the whole phenomenon of Our Lady of Akita is completely in line with the Message of Fatima.

    There's nothing suspicious, nothing funny, nothing Novus Ordo, nothing ecuмenical, nothing that doesn't add up.

    And it was approved by the local Ordinary, yes. Can't we trust ANY bishops who haven't left their diocese? What if they still have the Faith? Is the Church necessarily vacant, or have all bishops necessarily lost their power and jurisdiction just because they've said the Novus Ordo Missae?

    I, for one, don't think so.

    In short, I would say Akita is quite worthy of belief.
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    Offline Sienna629

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    Odd email from my former SSPX chapel
    « Reply #7 on: October 15, 2013, 11:16:54 AM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Quote from: InDominoSperavi
    I am sure that Akita is from the devil. I have collected many proves. I am preparing an article about that problem. It would have been already published if new events weren't always happening, making me busy. I will publish on this forum my article in french within one month and you will be able to read it with google translation. God bless you all.


    With all due respect to your many "proves", I have looked into the apparition myself, and it seems quite worthy of belief, even if one decides to not trust the approbation of post-Vatican II authorities.

    Sister Agnes Sasagawa was (is?) a sister in a very conservative convent, whose mission in life is to adore the Blessed Sacrament (side note: I realize that many in the Novus Ordo have lost the Faith, or are losing it -- these sisters have not.)

    Sister Agnes received the Stigmata, which resulted in her -- and the other Sister -- receiving Communion on the tongue thenceforward. "By their fruits you shall know them."

    She was a devout Sister, her life was changed by the apparition, Our Lady weeping for modern man is certainly believable -- the whole phenomenon of Our Lady of Akita is completely in line with the Message of Fatima.

    There's nothing suspicious, nothing funny, nothing Novus Ordo, nothing ecuмenical, nothing that doesn't add up.

    And it was approved by the local Ordinary, yes. Can't we trust ANY bishops who haven't left their diocese? What if they still have the Faith? Is the Church necessarily vacant, or have all bishops necessarily lost their power and jurisdiction just because they've said the Novus Ordo Missae?

    I, for one, don't think so.

    In short, I would say Akita is quite worthy of belief.



    I would agree, and so did Cardinal Ratzinger in one of his more honest moments, in 1984 I believe, when he declared that the message of Akita was essentially the same as Fatima.  Recall too, that the Conciliar Church really didn't talk about this apparition at all, so many people have never even heard of it.

    Like Matthew said, there is nothing outrageous or unbelievable going on with this apparition, and the effects on the statue (weeping, etc.) were observed by many people on several (101) occasions, as well as the Sister's hearing being restored.

    I would agree too, that some of the bishops in more remote places like that kept the Faith and did the best they could with the "stones" they were given in place of "bread."


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Odd email from my former SSPX chapel
    « Reply #8 on: October 15, 2013, 02:21:57 PM »
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  • .

    I take sides squarely with Matthew here.  I spent several years pouring
    over every detail out of Akita and it all checks.  

    The priest under whom Sister Sasagawa was situated did not think that
    her experience was credible until her words in regards to Genesis iii. 15
    emerged.  He had to go to his library and take down an old, dusty Bible
    that he had not used in many years, to find the exact words that the
    sister was saying she saw in the vision of the Bible that the angel had
    held in front of her.  It was in Japanese, and apparently it was the only
    copy of the Latin Vulgate Bible ever made in Japanese (at least at that
    time), for the newer editions that were emerging even in the early 20th
    century were far removed from this faithful rendition of the most
    reliable translation of the Latin Vulgate, akin to our Douay-Rheims.  

    There was no way the sister could have known about that old Bible.

    This was the turning point for her pastor.  If the devil had had anything
    to do with the Akita apparitions he would never have used an accurate
    translation of Genesis iii. 15.   It has taken him over 5,000 years to
    virtually suppress those words and he's not about to start over now.  
    That her pastor saw this as a sign is actually kind of amazing in itself.
    For he had no abiding preference for the "older version of Scripture."

    Sister was deaf as a post, but she could hear the messages clearly.  
    That's not something the devil could fake, without God's permission.  
    The tears from the carved wooden statue that fell 101 times were
    collected at certain points and analyzed in a medical lab, and were
    verified as human tears, with all the chemical components of tears.  
    The statue was examined by experts who concluded there was
    absolutely no way for fake liquids to have come out of the wood.  But
    the tears emerged time and again, just as if the carved wooden eyes
    were truly the eyes of a woman, shedding tears.  

    The man who carved the statue was a Buddhist, but he was an
    accomplished artist who took great pride in his work and gave it every
    attention humanly possible.  The statue is carved from a single piece
    of indigenous hardwood, in an area where the Japanese government
    does not normally allow local materials to be thusly consumed.  Nearly
    all of Japan's wood materials comes from overseas sources.  So even
    the raw materials being from a local source is a kind of miracle, so to
    speak.  Some say the artist had something like a conversion
    experience consequent to the phenomenon that occurred to his carving.

    The local bishop who approved the apparitions was not easily swayed.
    Just like the pastor, he was quite skeptical and it took a long time for
    him to come around.  I would say that Our Lady basically wore him
    out.  There came a point when there was simply no argument against
    approving this series of "cryings" of a wooden statue and a few other
    things, such as the voices the deaf sister heard.  

    As I see it, since this all happened under the auspices of the NovusOrdo
    Newmass, Our Lady did not make it any more obvious than it was.  Her
    statue cried, and her daughter listened.  Everything about Akita says
    "subdued" and "reserved" and "subtle."  One might say it is a bit like
    the apparitions of Knock, Ireland, where no words were spoken, but
    only images standing motionless (yet not entirely so - enough to
    make it known that they were living beings), and OUTSIDE the church,
    which is most ominous.  Outside the Church is where there is no
    salvation!  But what was about to happen was the Church would SEEM
    to put this dogma 'outside the Church' not too much longer into the
    future.  From 1879 until 1917 was 38 years.  From 1973 to 2011 has
    been 38 years.  In Ireland, where one small country had supplied the
    entire world with priests and nuns for several decades, now there are
    virtually no vocations!  And right on the other side of the 800-mile long
    Honshu Island of Japan from Akita, on April 11th, 2011, there was an
    earthquake...



    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Anthony Benedict

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    Odd email from my former SSPX chapel
    « Reply #9 on: October 15, 2013, 06:19:44 PM »
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  • Matthew and/or Neil:

    Point of inquiry: According to which Church-sanctioned title of Our Lady, if any, was the statue sculpted?

    [ I ask because, if memory serves, that statue was carved to honor "Our L*** of All Nations, 'Who Was Once M***' " (asterisks used to indicate my personal concern about such an appellation). ]


    Offline InDominoSperavi

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    « Reply #10 on: October 16, 2013, 03:01:45 AM »
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  • Thank you, Anthony Benedict. You pointed out one of the problems... But there are many others. I haven't the time to answer now. I promise I'll explain everything within one month. And "stigmata" may come from the devil. In fact, in this "apparition", it is just a wound on the side of one of the hands of sister Agnes.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Odd email from my former SSPX chapel
    « Reply #11 on: October 16, 2013, 04:41:08 AM »
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  • Quote from: Anthony Benedict
    Matthew and/or Neil:

    Point of inquiry: According to which Church-sanctioned title of Our Lady, if any, was the statue sculpted?

    [ I ask because, if memory serves, that statue was carved to honor "Our L*** of All Nations, 'Who Was Once M***' " (asterisks used to indicate my personal concern about such an appellation). ]



    The title is not "Our Lady..." but The Lady of All Nations..........

    Source

    Quote
    ...

    The Theological Relevance of the Lady of All Nations Apparitions

    February 27, 2012 by Msgr. Arthur B. Calkins   

    The theme of Mary as Coredemptrix and Mediatrix, that is, of the Mother of God as the most intimate human collaborator in the work of our redemption and as the chief dispenser of the grace of the redemption after Jesus himself, has occupied theologians from the very dawn of the twentieth century. Indeed, it seems that the first English writer to use and defend the term Coredemptrix was Father Frederick William Faber in the last chapter of his classic work The Foot of the Cross, first published in 1858. Further, prior to the Second Vatican Council not a few Bishops expressed a desire for the Council to make a declaration—some even wished a definition—about Our Lady as Coredemptrix and/or Mediatrix. In his general audience address of 13 December 1995, Pope John Paul II made a graceful reference to the Council Fathers who “wished further to enrich Marian doctrine with other statements on Mary’s role in the work of salvation” without criticizing them in any way. He simply commented that “The particular context in which Vatican II’s Mariological debate took place did not allow these wishes, although substantial and widespread, to be accepted.”

    The present campaign which continues to generate worldwide attention, adherence and much theological debate has added another term to those interrelated titles of Coredemptrix and Mediatrix: that of Advocate. This title has profound roots in the Catholic tradition going all the way back to Saint Irenaeus in the second century. It occurs in the Hail, Holy Queen where we pray: “turn then, most gracious Advocate, thine eyes of mercy towards us.” Indeed, the great Marian docuмent of the Second Vatican Council readily recognized that Mary is rightly invoked as Advocate.

    Linking together the titles Coredemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate enables us to grasp Mary’s role in our salvation in a logical and coherent way: It is precisely because of Our Lady’s unique and intimate participation in the work of the redemption (as Coredemptrix) that she is able be the distributor (Mediatrix) of all graces and the great intercessor (Advocate) for her children after Jesus himself (cf. Heb. 7:25; 1 Jn. 2:1) and the Holy Spirit (cf. Jn. 14:16, 26; 15:26; 16:7).

    When was the call first issued for a definition of Mary’s role in our salvation as Coredemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate? As far as I am able to determine, this appeal comes from a series of revelations made in Amsterdam to a humble and simple Dutch woman, Ida Peerdeman (1906-1996), from 25 March 1945 to 31 May 1959. In the course of these, Our Lady disclosed that she wished to be known as “The Lady of All Nations.” She asked that a picture should be painted according to her indications (somewhat similar to the popular image on the miraculous medal) and that this should be diffused along with a prayer which she dictated to the seeress. After the dogmatic definition of the Assumption by Pope Pius XII on 1 November 1950, Our Lady told Ida that this definition had to precede “the last and greatest dogma”: that of Mary Coredemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate, for which the picture and prayer were meant to prepare the way.

    ...

    At the moment the Church cannot make a pronouncement about the supernatural character of the apparitions and the content of the messages. One is free to make a personal judgment according to his or her own conscience.

    The prayer “Lord Jesus Christ…” which includes the title ‘The Lady of All Nations” had, since 1951, enjoyed Church approval by Msgr. Huibers, who was Bishop of Haarlem at the time.

    What is of further interest is that less than a month after this declaration, on 17 June 1996, the seeress died at the age of ninety. Her funeral Mass was celebrated by Bishop Bomers who began his homily on that occasion by stating that “We are gathered here as people who have loved, admired and esteemed Ida Peerdeman.” When the first International Day of Prayer in honor of The Lady of All Nations was held in Amsterdam on 31 May 1997, even with minimum publicity it attracted 5,000 persons and filled the auditorium where it was presided over by Bishop Bomers. The second such Day of Prayer was held in Amsterdam on 31 May 1998 with 12,000 people representing 60 different nations in attendance. On that occasion Bishop Bomers announced that he had recently constituted a theological commission to study the revelations received by Ida Peerdeman. (Very significantly, after having officially permitted devotion to the Lady of All Nations and after having opened the way to a theological investigation of the message, on the Feast of the Holy Name of Mary, 12 September 1998, Bishop Bomers was called to his eternal reward).

    Most importantly, on 31 May, 2002, Bishop Punt, who had succeeded Bishop Bomers as Bishop of Haarlem, released an official letter which established the supernatural authenticity of the apparitions and messages received by Ida. In it he declared: “I have come to the conclusion that the apparitions of the Lady of All Nations in Amsterdam consist of a supernatural origin.”

    In such a relatively short sketch it is impossible to discuss in detail the many features of the messages received by Ida Peerdeman. We can say that they deal with a period of great crisis in the Church and in the world. It would seem that many elements of these prophetic words, which at times are illustrated in an apocalyptic way, have already been verified. Here I must confine myself to the two most important elements of these revelations which are given as particular means to bring about the proclamation of the dogma: the prayer and the picture.

    The prayer was given on the Feast of Our Lady of Lourdes, 11 February 1951:

    Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Father, send now Your Spirit over the earth. Let the Holy Spirit live in the hearts of all nations, that they may be preserved from degeneration, disaster and war. May the Lady of all Nations, who once was Mary, be our Advocate. Amen.

    Like the prayer composed by Pope John XXIII for the Council, it is a prayer for a fresh outpouring of the Holy Spirit. One need hardly comment upon the appropriateness of begging to be “preserved from degeneration, disaster and war.” These characterize our modern world torn from its divine moorings in so many ways.

    What is almost always initially jarring to Catholic sensitivities is the seemingly strange reference to “the Lady of all Nations, who once was Mary.” The visionary herself found the words strange and the Church authorities to whom she had to go to obtain approval of the prayer initially gave permission only with the words “who once was Mary” omitted. This led Our Lady to insist on 28 March and 2 July 1951, and again on 17 February and 6 April 1952, that permission should be given for the publication of the prayer in its entirety. This was finally conceded and on 5 October 1952 Our Lady told Ida to tell the Bishop that she was satisfied.

    But why this insistence? On 2 July 1951 (then observed as the Feast of the Visitation) Our Lady said:

    The words “who once was Mary” mean:
    many people have known Mary just as Mary. Now, however, in this new era which is beginning I want to be the Lady of All Nations. Everybody will understand this.

    On 6 April of the following year she further explained that she became the Lady of All Nations at the foot of the cross when Jesus asked her to accept John as her son (cf. Jn. 19:26), that “it was at the Sacrifice of the Cross that the change came about.” The wording of the prayer in no way denies that Mary is always Mary, but appropriately underscores the universal motherhood conferred on her by Jesus.


    The persistence of Our Lady with regard to the wording of the prayer seems particularly significant to me in the light of the tendency of many Mariologists since the Council to place great emphasis on the historical “Mary of Nazareth” while effectively downplaying the exalted position to which God raised her. This so-called “low Mariology” is to be found in many revisionist approaches to Mary such as those proposed by radical feminists and liberation theologians.


    Shortly after giving the prayer, on 4 March 1951 Our Lady called attention to the way in which she appeared to the seeress and asked that a picture be painted which should be diffused with the prayer. She stands on the globe surrounded by sheep and before a cross with her hands extended (as on the miraculous medal) and emitting the three rays of Grace, Redemption and Peace. On the palms of each hand there is the scar of a wound, a mute testimony to her intimate collaboration in the work of our redemption. It is a graphic illustration of the Coredemptrix as Pope John Paul II described her on 31 January, 1985, at Guayaquil, Ecuador, “crucified spiritually with her crucified son.” The sash is also meant to be a reminder of the loincloth of Jesus on the Cross. On 31 May 1951 the Lady said:

    Through the grace of My Lord and Master, and for the love of mankind, the Father sent His only-begotten Son as Redeemer of the world. Together they now want to send the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, Who alone can bring Peace. Hence: “Grace, Redemption and Peace.” In this era the Father and the Son want to send Mary, “the Lady of All Nations” as Coredemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate. Now I have given you a clear and lucid explanation of the image.

    The daily praying of a prayer for the descent of the Holy Spirit to prevent degeneration, disaster, and war, and a request for the papal definition of Mary Co-redemptrix, Mediatrix, and Advocate in order to bring peace to the world constitute the two fundamental calls of the Lady of All Nations. It is time to take it to heart and to respond to these two calls from Our Lady in light of our contemporary world scenario.

     

    Msgr. Arthur B. Calkins is an official of the Pontifical Commission “Ecclesia Dei” in Rome, a contributing member of the Pontifical International Marian Academy and the author of Totus Tuus. He is internationally known for his numerous articles on Our Lady and for his scholarly work in the fields of dogmatic and spiritual theology. This article was originally published in Contemporary Insights on a Fifth Marian Dogma, Mary Coredemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocate: Theological Foundations III, Queenship, 2000.

    Further information on the Lady of All Nations may be obtained from The Lady of All Nations Action Center, P.O. Box 31481, St. Louis, MO 63131, U.S.A.; phone: (314) 965-2863; fax: (314) 965-3806 or The Lady of All Nations, Diepenbrockstraat 3, 1077 VX Amsterdam, Netherlands; phone: (0031) 20-662-0504; fax: (0031) 20-471-1333.


    ...

    Clarification of Topics Relating to the Apparitions of the Lady of All Nations, Amsterdam, 2004
    February 27, 2012 by Dr. Mark Miravalle   

    On May 31, 2002, Bishop Joseph Punt of the Diocese of Haarlem/Amsterdam, gave official recognition to the Apparitions of Our Lady of All Nations, declaring it to “consist of a supernatural origin” (Statement of Approval, May 31, 2002). Since the approval of supernatural authenticity by Bishop Punt, various questions have resurfaced regarding aspects of the apparitions and their messages. In the following article, the Foundation of the Lady of All Nations has identified and responded to twelve topics around which various questions have arisen in an effort for greater clarification in light of the Bishop’s statement of authenticity.

    The Apparitions of the Lady of All Nations, which occurred in Amsterdam from 1945 to 1959, have enjoyed international devotion for many years since their origin. Indeed, there appears to be a special relevance to the message and mission of the Lady of All Nations Apparitions for our contemporary times.


    ...

    8. Absence of Public Sign: Condition for Authenticity

    At apparitions sites such as Lourdes and Fatima, the Blessed Virgin granted a public sign as an indication of authenticity for the apparitions, but at Amsterdam Our Lady responded to the request for a public sign with the words: “My signs are contained in my words” (May 31, 1957 message). Is a public sign a necessary criterion for the authenticity of a Marian apparition according to the guidelines of Church investigation?

    The criteria for the evaluation of a reported private revelation, issued by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and sent to diocesan commissions, do not refer to the requirement of a public miracle as a condition for a conclusion of supernatural authenticity of an apparition. Nevertheless, public signs of a remarkable nature have been recorded and can be attributed to the Amsterdam apparitions.

    One example of a truly remarkable sign is contained in the Amsterdam message of February 19, 1958, which predicted the death of Pope Pius XII in October of the same year. The message was kept secret and was written and sealed in an envelope which was given to the visionary’s spiritual director. After the unexpected death of Pius XII on October 9, 1958, the envelope was opened and the prediction was confirmed. In fact, Our Lady’s sign was contained in her words.

    Numerous other prophecies which foretold future events have been fulfilled in our own times and in themselves constitute true signs of authenticity. From prophecies concerning a “landing on the moon” (February 7, 1946 message), to wars in the Balkans (October 1, 1949 message) and in the Middle East (December 26, 1947 message), to the convocation of a great Church council (Vatican II, in February 11, 1951 message), to modern forms of chemical and biological weapons (December 26, 1947), the signs of supernatural authenticity have been repeatedly manifested and fulfilled in the “words” of the Lady of All Nations.

    Moreover, the weeping statue of the Lady of All Nations located in Akita, Japan constitutes a miraculous public sign which is docuмented and confirmed. A wooden statue of The Lady of All Nations venerated in a Japanese convent wept numerous lacrimations, which were witnessed and docuмented by several hundred people including the local bishop, Most Rev. John Shorijo Ito, Bishop of Niigata (local ordinary during the time of the apparitions). The tears were scientifically examined at the University of Akita and concluded to be of the nature of human tears. This public phenomenon accompanied apparitions of the Blessed Virgin to a Japanese religious, Sr. Agnes Sasagawa with a message emphasizing Our Lady’s role as Co-redemptrix. Several supernatural healings were docuмented, scientifically confirmed, and personally examined by Bishop Ito. Bishop Ito issued a pastoral letter declaring the events of Akita to be supernatural (April 22, 1984).

    Bishop Ito has publicly testified to the essential interconnectedness of the apparitions of Our Lady of Akita with the Amsterdam apparitions of the Lady of All Nations, and has twice taken pilgrimages to the site of the Amsterdam apparitions.

    ...




    It seems this article's message is the phrase "who once was Mary" is
    a rejoinder to the recent trend to minimize Our Lady's significance,
    which is a longstanding penchant of the protestants, BTW, and has
    thusly been adapted in the post-conciliar push for false ecuмenism,
    and therefore, while Catholics refer to her, tenderly, as "Our Lady,"
    that implies our ACCEPTANCE of her as our Mother, whereas those
    outside the Church (where there is no salvation!) are wont to refer
    to her simply as "Mary."  

    Well, then with this new appellation, The Lady of All Nations,
    she bears the title REGARDLESS of whether those over whom she
    is thus placed accept her or reject her.  It is what it is.  She would be
    THE Lady of All Nations, nations full of people, some of whom accept
    Her Ladyship, that is, Her Queenship, and some of whom do not.  
    But those who do not, do so at their own peril!  

    Notice also, that the entire web page is mostly devoted to the explanation
    of Our Lady as Co-Redemptrix and Mediatrix of Graces:  Advocate.
    This is a doctrine that came pretty close to being defined during Vat.II,
    but was not, mostly because of the Opening Speech of John XXIII, which
    proudly proclaimed that the Pope would no longer define any dogma.  



    On a personal note, I once felt offended when I heard a protestant
    say "Mother Mary" in conversation.  Since that is not a term that we
    have been accustomed to using, it sounded foreign to me and I was
    tempted to react with contempt of it.  But I controlled my reaction,
    and later I was glad that I had done so, because this protestant
    then expressed a desire to become Catholic!   Had I criticized his
    terminology, he may have not had come to the desire to be Catholic.





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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    « Reply #12 on: October 16, 2013, 12:22:15 PM »
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  • Quote from: Mabel
    Quote from: InDominoSperavi
    I am sure that Akita is from the devil. I have collected many proves. I am preparing an article about that problem. It would have been already published if new events weren't always happening, making me busy. I will publish on this forum my article in french within one month and you will be able to read it with google translation. God bless you all.


    Let me know. My French isn't so bad, I will probably be able to read it without translation.

    I guess I'm wary of apparitions easily approved by the Vatican 2 church.


    I can hardly blame you, Mabel, for being "wary of apparitions
    easily approved by the Vat.II church."  Do you have any
    examples of these 'easily approved' apparitions of which you
    are wary?  Certainly Medjugorje can't be one of them, because
    it's not approved.  Nor could Akita, it would seem, for it was not
    "easily" approved, as it took over 10 years, with every detail
    having been examined, and nothing per se specifically found
    to be in question.  

    So do you have any other examples?  

    As for the article above, where it says that Bishop Ito made
    pilgrimages to Amsterdam to the site of 'the Lady of All Nations'
    apparitions site, it would seem those took place after he gave
    his approval of the Akita phenomena.  This is not to say they
    are unrelated, but only that the pilgrimages could not have any
    causal relationship toward his approval of the Akita phenomena,
    because they had not yet occurred when he gave his approval.  
    Rather, the pilgrimages can be seen as an outgrowth, or a result
    consequent to his approval of the Akita phenomena.

    In ages past, one of the things that may occur after some
    mystical phenomenon has been approved by the local bishop
    and makes its way to the attention of the Vatican is, once
    sufficient supplication of the faithful takes place, the Holy See
    responds by adding the new title of Our Lady to the official
    version of the Litany of Loreto.  



    (This happened after JPII did his stint with "the Mother
    of the Church"
    and I heard it used in a NovusOrdo
    parish setting, but it seems the Litany of Loreto isn't
    being used much anymore in NovusOrdo settings
    (correct me if I'm wrong), but in traditional groups that
    I know of, the title "Mother of the Church" is not
    included when the prayer is recited.  We make this
    decision after due examination of the circuмstances, in
    which we find there is no good reason to add it, and
    there are numerous good reasons to NOT add it.  We
    therefore conclude that its "official addition" can only be
    explained by the fact that the pope who added it was a
    Modernist, and likewise, if he is Newcanonized, his
    so-called 'sainthood' will be likewise questionable, due
    to the influence of Modernism in the highest offices of
    Holy Mother Church.)  



    Before the time of St. John Bosco, for example, "Our Lady Help
    of Christians" was not in the Litany. Maybe you didn't know that
    it was due to Don Bosco's efforts that it became added, and
    likewise, it was due to his efforts that St. Francis de Sales was
    later raised to the dignity of Doctor of the Church.  In fact, Don
    Bosco's international order of The Salesians derives its name
    from St. Francis.  

    The phrase "Queen assumed into Heaven" was added in 1950.
    That is to say, when the Litany of Our Lady was recited in public
    up until the year 1949, everyone said, "...Queen of all saints (pray
    for us), Queen conceived without original sin (pray for us), Queen
    of the most Holy Rosary (pray for us), Queen of peace..."  

    The same can be noted for other titles, such as "Queen of the
    most Holy Rosary," which was added in 1571 after the victory
    at Lepanto.  This can basically be verified by checking the texts
    in use at those times.  For example, in my 1945 St. Andrew's
    Missal, which was printed before the dogmatic definition of the
    Assumption by Pius XII in 1950, the Litany of Our Lady reads
    exactly as I quoted it above, without the title "Queen assumed
    into heaven" just before "Queen of the most Holy Rosary."  

    Notice too, that titles are not appended simply to the end of the
    prayer, but are "inserted" literally, into the place where they
    appropriately belong.  E.g., A.D. 1571 occurred, and the
    associated title (Queen of the most holy Rosary) was added 379
    years BEFORE 1950, yet the title from 1571 is today found AFTER
    the title from 1950 (Queen assumed into heaven).  The reason it
    was arranged that way is because the Assumption of Our Lady
    body and soul occurred first, and the victory at Lepanto occurred
    many centuries later.  If there is any obvious chronological
    aspect like that, the titles in the Litany are arranged to reflect it
    as a 'timeline'.

    The point is, the true Church is a living thing.  And her theology
    is also alive.  It grows and develops over time, however, her
    doctrines are not made up out of thin air or out of nothing.  They
    are based squarely on God's divine revelation in Sacred
    Tradition.  

    We are presently in a time when the dogmatic definition of Our
    Lady as "Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix of graces:  Advocate" is
    imminent.  It has been imminent for the past 70 years, as to
    the articles in my previous post allude. Can you find anything
    in those articles that is questionable, that is, other than "it's the
    NovusOrdo and he's a Newbishop consecrated after 1968?"

    Because, at some point, that's all the sedes have, is that
    same old canard.  


    And when there is one day a conversion of Rome, by the
    infinite mercy of God, and/or the dogmatic definition of Our
    Lady as Co-Redemptrix and Meiatrix of graces:  Advocate,
    what will the sedes do?  

    I have it from the "horse's mouth" that:

    There will be no Collegial Consecration
    of Russia to the IHM by the Pope and
    all the bishops of the world, nor any
    conversion of Russia, and to go around
    thinking that there will be is foolishness.


    That's not a direct quote, but it is a most reasonable take-away.


    So it seems to me that the sedes have dug themselves into a
    hole.  And perhaps some of them will be able to pull themselves
    out, or at least won't refuse the help of those on the outside to
    pull them up and out of their "deep pit of unknowing," but others
    will remain there in time, and perhaps therefore even in eternity,
    where their unknowing in this life may be brought to fruition in an
    everlasting unknowing of the clear vision of God which is heaven.

    And as Our Lord put it, "...into the exterior darkness:  there shall
    be weeping and gnashing of teeth"
    (Matt. xxii. 13).

    It is the very nature of schism to be separated from the life
    of the Church, most often manifested as separation from the
    head of the Mystical Body of Christ.  The defined dogma is
    the following, given ex cathedra, some 248 years after the
    Great Western Schism, the schism to which it directly refers and
    aptly applies:  


    Quote from: In the Bull [i
    "Unam Sanctam,"[/i] A.D. 1302, Denz. 875, Pope Boniface VIII]
    We declare, say, define and pronounce
    that it is absolutely necessary for the
    salvation of every human creature to
    be subject to the Roman Pontiff.





    And it is in our modern IGNORANCE of the importance and
    significance, and abiding essential gravity of doctrine, per se,
    that we have lost all sense of why, how, when, and where this
    is worth our paying attention.   This is the Deposit of Faith.
    This is what it takes for us to know about and believe, if we
    are capable of doing so, so that we can avoid eternity in hell.



    What else is more important?  





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    Offline Anthony Benedict

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    « Reply #13 on: October 16, 2013, 01:22:41 PM »
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  • Neil, your correction is duly noted and appreciated. As well as you scholarly contributions.

    Even back in the early 90s when first I heard of these claims, I had serious reservations.

    For example, if the "title" ascribed to the alleged visit from the Great Beyond in the Netherlands and then Japan were to be officially sanctioned for "pious" usage, would that mean that the Angelic Salutation ought to be changed, as well? And, if so, would that be from "Ave Maria" to something along the lines of "Ave domina (quondam Maria)"? As if, allegedly, the Mother of God had decided to drop Her own sacred name, sanctified in heaven itself even before She was immaculately conceived? Would that thereby imply the Church itself and the Blessed Virgin's own spiritual children ought to do likewise?

    The possible consequences of such a thing would seem more than unpleasant.

    As well, the late John Haffert and his 101 Foundation that supports the Akita claims has, or had, some affiliation with the charismaniacs. And there was a report of grave negligence in taking care of one of the original, authentic Fatima Pilgrim Virgin statues (I met Louis Kazmerczak, the official guardian of the statue, back in the late 80s) when it was taken along by the 101 Foundation on a charismatic / Medjugorje trip to Moscow, led by Fr. Kenneth Roberts. When the official pilgrim statue from Fatima was returned it was heavily soiled and, if I recall correctly, broken, although perhaps not irreparably.

    Roberts, as you no doubt know, is/was (I don't now if he's still alive)  the former priest famous for his autobiography, "Playboy to Priest". He became an EWTN rock star. And, he disappeared in a New York minute as soon as disclosures were made of his heinous activities with boys. EWTN did another one of its classic "Stalinized" cleansing ops, as they later did with Frs. Corapi and Groeschel, and there was no more word of Roberts once the studio exit door closed.

    Such occurrences can be considered, of course, incidental. Nevertheless, they at least bear on the matter of who is publicizing an alleged apparition. I leave it up to you and anyone else to look into them if interested. Chris Ferarra docuмented the Roberts tale in his book about EWTN.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    « Reply #14 on: October 16, 2013, 02:24:52 PM »
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  • .

    That's interesting, Anthony Benedict, for I had heard the name, Fr.
    Roberts, but never paid it any heed.  I was not aware of how he
    was 'memory-holed' at EWTN, but I'm not surprised.  I did notice
    they pulled that off with Fr. Corapi, though, and I recall hearing
    some of the murmurings in regards to Benedict Groeschel, both
    of whom I recall watching on the old shows some 15 or 20 years
    ago.  Long story.........

    But in regards to the Angelic Salutation, it comes to mind that
    if you look in Luke i. 28, you don't see the name "Mary."

    Have you ever thought about that?  I have.  Rather, many years
    ago, like when Groeschel was on EWTN I thought about it.  Not
    that TV had much to do with it, though.  I can recall at various
    points throughout my life wondering why we say "Hail Mary full
    of grace, the Lord is with thee," when that's supposed to be the
    Angelic Salutation, and then, Luke i. 28 is ALSO  supposed to be
    the Angelic Salutation, whereas if you read it you find the
    following:  


    Quote

    And the angel being come in,
    said unto her : Hail, full of grace,
    the Lord is with thee:  Blessed
    at thou among women.





    Now, call me a prude, or call me a menace, or call me a stubborn
    stickler for minutiae and silly things, or call me whatever you like,
    but do you see any mention of "Mary" in the Bible at that point?

    Have you ever heard why bajillions of prayers over hundreds of
    years have been made in supplication to "Mary" when her name
    is not there in the Bible?  I mean, nothing against the name of
    Our Lady, which is Mary --- although it was explained to me by
    a very qualified and traditional priest that, "The Church inserts the
    name of 'Mary' into the Angelic Salutation without prejudice,
    and without explanation, however, we are given in Scripture and
    therefore in Tradition to know, that the eternal name of Our Lady
    in heaven and outside of time, before time began and after time
    ceases to be, is not 'Mary,' but rather, 'full of grace'."

    Or, in English it's "full of grace," which is our translation of
    the Latin "gratia plena," which is in turn a translation of the
    more ancient Greek "Kecharitomene."

    For what does St. Luke report that the angel Gabriel called Our
    Lady, by name, when he spoke to her?  He said, "Hail, full of
    grace,..."  And that means that is her name in eternity, "full of
    grace," and not "Mary."  The angels don't waste words.  They
    don't "insert" names where they don't belong.  But the Church can
    do so, to serve a purpose, in a time, during which the age of man
    has need of a certain word for whatever reason.  

    Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that there are a lot
    of women and a lot of girls whose name is Mary.  In fact, there are
    a lot of men who have taken the name of Mary or were given it.  
    St. John Mary Vianney and St. Louis Marie Grignon de Montfort
    and St. Anthony Mary Claret come to mind.  But none of them, not
    one, has ever been named "full of grace."

    Since you are scandalized seeing things written, I won't write it!  :wink:

    At the same time, it seems to me, and I sympathize with you on
    this, that there are probably very close to ZERO Catholics of the
    traditional persuasion who will be eager to climb aboard the
    Newtrain that would dare attempt to change the words of the Hail
    Mary into something like,

    "Hail, Lady of All Nations, full of grace, the
    Lord is with thee.  Blessed art thou among
    women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb,
    Jesus.  Holy Lady of All Nations, Mother of
    God, pray for us sinners, now, and at the
    hour of our death."  



    Maybe that gives you the creeps, but it kind of sits 'off kilter' to
    me, kind of like a pendulum clock that leans to the left about 7
    degrees.  And then, you go and straighten the clock up to a plumb
    position where it looks MUCH BETTER, only to find that the clock
    stops ticking and the pendulum gradually stops swinging, and
    sometimes the change from RUN to SHUT DOWN happens with a
    BANG-noise coming from the gear box, which can be rather
    unsettling when the clock is an heirloom antique of over 100 years
    in age!  It's caused by the escapement's leading spanner tong
    touching the very point of the star wheel, as that is never
    supposed to happen.


    If we want to pull rank on language we could revert to the most
    ancient of forms we have, the Greek, and say, "Hail, kecharitōmĕnē,
    full of grace, the Lord is with thee..."  but that would be redundant.








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