Author Topic: Novus SSPX Poor Souls Plenary Indulgence? (Read 4990 times)

bowler · « **on:** November 09, 2013, 10:07:01 AM »

I received a Plenary Indulgences for the Poor Souls card from the SSPX and it has some liberal novelties that I never heard of. Are they Novus Ordo?

It says that to receive the plenary indulgence for a poor soul

1) Confession at least 20 days before and after the indulgenced act (the old requirement was 8 days before and after)

2)Communion at least 20 days before and after the indulgenced act (the old requirement was communion must be received the day of the indulgence!) A huge change!!!!!

3) Prayers for the Supreme Pontiff 20 days before and after the indulgenced act . ( There's no mention of what these prayers consist of or quantity. The old requirement was 7 Our Fathers, 7 Hail Mary's, 7 Glory Be's for the Supreme Pontiff on the day of the indulgence) A huge change!!!!

4) From Nov1-8 visit of a cemetery with mental prayer for the poor souls (There's no mention of what these prayers consist of or quantity. The old requirement was 7 Our Fathers, 7 Hail Mary's, 7 Glory Be's for the Supreme Pontiff on the day of the indulgence)

Bottom line:

It looks like this new "indulgence" allows you to go to confession and communion 1 time in 40 days, and say some prayer for the pope and some prayer for the poor souls and you get a plenary indulgence. Never in my life did I hear of such a thing till I read this SSPX card. Sounds totally Novus Ordo. Where did this come from?

TKGS · « **Reply #1 on:** November 09, 2013, 10:48:28 AM »

I saw that card too. It was all new to me. I have never seen the requirements listed on that card before this year. I have no idea from where they got the information.

bowler · « **Reply #2 on:** November 09, 2013, 05:31:34 PM »

It looks like this new "indulgence" allows you to go to confession and communion 1 time in 40 days, and say some prayer for the pope and some prayer for the poor souls (one time during those 40 days!) and you get a plenary indulgence. Never in my life did I hear of such a thing till I read this SSPX card. Sounds totally Novus Ordo. Where did this come from?

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #3 on:** November 09, 2013, 06:45:27 PM »

Wow, that is awful. Besides the fact that it is simply wrong (by both traditional AND Novus Ordo standards) the Church alone imposes the regulations and specifics that pertain to indulgences. Irregular clergy do not have any power whatsoever to adjust them.

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #4 on:** November 09, 2013, 07:35:31 PM »

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #5 on:** November 09, 2013, 08:05:24 PM »

Never thought I'd be citing from this website, but...

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/10/action-item-all-souls-day-indulgences-wherein-fr-z-rants-for-a-while/

TKGS · « **Reply #6 on:** November 09, 2013, 08:46:05 PM »

That website says 20 days. So when did the Novus Ordo change their regulations? I'm just curious since I don't believe they have any authority to change the regulations concerning anything to do with the Catholic Church.

poche · « **Reply #7 on:** November 09, 2013, 10:38:15 PM »

There were some changes that were made by Pope Paul VI. The main difference is that you can gain a partial indulgence of indeterminate time as opposed to a specific number of days or years. As for prayers for the pope the following is now sufficient for the indulgence. You may add others as you see fit.

n. 10—The condition of praying for the Supreme Pontiff's intentions is fully satisfied by reciting one "Our Father" and one "Hail Mary"; nevertheless the individual faithful are free to recite any other prayer according to their own piety and devotion toward the Supreme Pontiff.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/apost_constitutions/docuмents/hf_p-vi_apc_19670101_indulgentiarum-doctrina_en.html

Ladislaus · « **Reply #8 on:** November 09, 2013, 11:01:51 PM »

Does anyone have an online link to the pre-Vatican II Raccolta / Enchiridion Indulgentiarum?

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #9 on:** November 10, 2013, 09:13:57 AM »

Quote from: SeanJohnson

Never thought I'd be citing from this website, but...

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/10/action-item-all-souls-day-indulgences-wherein-fr-z-rants-for-a-while/

Fr. Z likes to sound authoritative but he doesn't like to mention the sources
of his doctrine. He would have a pretty hard time explaining where he gets
a lot of things. For example, where would he say he got this:

"I don’t think we have to be a hermit living on top of a tree beating his head
with a rock to be free of attachment to sin so as to gain this plenary or “full”
indulgence."

.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #10 on:** November 10, 2013, 09:19:49 AM »

.

I find it interesting this time of year to hear a sedevacantist priest
say that to get this plenary indulgence you have say prayers for
the intention of the Holy Father.

But he doesn't think we've had a Holy Father since Pius XII. So are
we praying for intentions that pope had 55 years ago? That's a
question that is highly unwelcome, apparently. It seems to be the
case that the faithful are not supposed to think.

.

JPaul · « **Reply #11 on:** November 10, 2013, 09:36:34 AM »

Quote from: Neil Obstat

.

I find it interesting this time of year to hear a sedevacantist priest
say that to get this plenary indulgence you have say prayers for
the intention of the Holy Father.

But he doesn't think we've had a Holy Father since Pius XII. So are
we praying for intentions that pope had 55 years ago? That's a
question that is highly unwelcome, apparently. It seems to be the
case that the faithful are not supposed to think.

.

Very interesting thoughts. Another example of practices which are based upon a presumption of a structure being in place by which you exercise such a practice when the current reality is that the underlying structure is something less than it should be.

TKGS · « **Reply #12 on:** November 10, 2013, 11:36:59 AM »

Quote from: Neil Obstat

I find it interesting this time of year to hear a sedevacantist priest say that to get this plenary indulgence you have say prayers for the intention of the Holy Father.

The conditions for obtaining a plenary indulgence does not terminate during an interregnum and "prayers for the intention of the Holy Father" are still required even when there is no pope currently in office. The intentions for which we pray are not the ecuмenical, heretical, and sinful intentions of Bergoglio.

But, just out of curiosity, not one sedevacantist priest was mentioned in this topic, at least not one I am aware of. The SSPX is not sedevacantist and Fr. Z is even more anti-sedevacantist than the SSPX. So...who is the sedevacantist priest your referring to?

Stubborn · « **Reply #13 on:** November 10, 2013, 12:26:53 PM »

Quote from: bowler

I received a Plenary Indulgences for the Poor Souls card from the SSPX and it has some liberal novelties that I never heard of. Are they Novus Ordo?

It says that to receive the plenary indulgence for a poor soul

1) Confession at least 20 days before and after the indulgenced act (the old requirement was 8 days before and after)

2)Communion at least 20 days before and after the indulgenced act (the old requirement was communion must be received the day of the indulgence!) A huge change!!!!!

Raccolta 1957: Can.931.1 The confession which may be required for gaining any particular indulgences can be made within eight days which immediately precede the day to which the indulgences are appointed; and the Communion may take place on the previous day; or again both conditions may be satisfied within the following eight days.

3) Prayers for the Supreme Pontiff 20 days before and after the indulgenced act . ( There's no mention of what these prayers consist of or quantity. The old requirement was 7 Our Fathers, 7 Hail Mary's, 7 Glory Be's for the Supreme Pontiff on the day of the indulgence) A huge change!!!!

Raccolta 1957: ....One Our Father, Hail Mary and Glory be to the Father, the faithful being left entirely free, according to the rule of canon 934.1, to recite any other prayer in keeping with each one's affection and devotion towards the Roman Pontiff.
b) In order to gain plenary indulgences which are to be obtained as often as the prescribed work is performed, and to which a visit to some church is enjoined, it is necessary and sufficient to say at least six times at each visit Our Father, Hail Mary, Glory be to the Father.

4) From Nov1-8 visit of a cemetery with mental prayer for the poor souls (There's no mention of what these prayers consist of or quantity. The old requirement was 7 Our Fathers, 7 Hail Mary's, 7 Glory Be's for the Supreme Pontiff on the day of the indulgence)
I cannot find this anywhere in my Raccolta.

The Raccolta says: "the rules for gaining indulgences in general are found in the code of Canon Law canons 925-936" so if someone has the 1917 Code in English - that's where to look.

TKGS · « **Reply #14 on:** November 10, 2013, 12:56:49 PM »

Canon 931 §1. If confession is per chance required for the gaining of any indulgence, it can be done within the eight days immediately preceding the day to which the indulgence is attached; communion can be done on the day before it; both can be completed within eight days following.

1917 Code of Canon Law