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Author Topic: Novus Ordo Eucharistic Miracle (talk by Bp Williamson)  (Read 3416 times)

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Offline apollo

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Novus Ordo Eucharistic Miracle (talk by Bp Williamson)
« on: July 23, 2018, 01:16:05 PM »
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  • This is the 8-minute part of a talk by Bp Williamson in Saint Marys (rather Emmett), KS, in 2016,
    where he talks about the Eucharistic Miracle in Poland (?).

    http://drbo.org/dnl/Bishop_Williamson_Eucharistic_Miracle.mp3

    I post this because I have noticed that one thing that is very bad
    for the Resistance is the people in the Resistance.  I'm talking about
    those people and priests who criticize Novus Ordo people, SSPX people,
    Bp Williamson and others.

    The world is not black and white (evil or good).  The world is grey.
    Saying that the Novus Ordo Mass cannot possibly do any good for
    anybody is showing how small your brain is and how proud you are.
    And, NO, I don't approve of the NO Mass.

    Listen to the MP3 audio and stop saying that Bp Williamson approves
    of the NO Mass.  He does not !!!







    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Novus Ordo Eucharistic Miracle (talk by Bp Williamson)
    « Reply #1 on: July 23, 2018, 01:33:44 PM »
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  • Quote
    Saying that the Novus Ordo Mass cannot possibly do any good for anybody
    No one has ever said that.  A protestant service can provide actual graces for those in attendance, if they are attending for the love of God.  This is because God looks at the heart and he judges based on SUBJECTIVE circuмstances.  However, this does not mean that a protestant service is pleasing to God, objectively.  Same applies to the Novus ordo.  God judges the mass, the circuмstances and the people's hearts all separately (as only He can).  But, objectively, the novus ordo is sinful. 


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Novus Ordo Eucharistic Miracle (talk by Bp Williamson)
    « Reply #2 on: July 23, 2018, 01:42:29 PM »
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  • .
    Why does the recording suddenly cut off right when +W is saying, "But to say that no grace can get through the Novus Ordo mass, I think that's an exaggeration..."?
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    Offline apollo

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    Re: Novus Ordo Eucharistic Miracle (talk by Bp Williamson)
    « Reply #3 on: July 23, 2018, 01:48:22 PM »
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  • Why does the recording suddenly cut off right when +W is saying, "But to say that no grace can get through the Novus Ordo mass, I think that's an exaggeration..."?
    Because that is where it stops talking about the Eucharistic Miracle.
    For the whole video go here:


    Offline apollo

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    Re: Novus Ordo Eucharistic Miracle (talk by Bp Williamson)
    « Reply #4 on: July 23, 2018, 01:51:50 PM »
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  • No one has ever said that.
    You have not been talking to the same people I have been talking to. 
    I have heard several people say that (in real life situations). 
    Fr. Pfeifer and Fr. Hewko are saying something very very close to that,
    in public.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Novus Ordo Eucharistic Miracle (talk by Bp Williamson)
    « Reply #5 on: July 23, 2018, 02:03:42 PM »
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  • But Fr Pfeiffer MIGHT be right, if we're talking about SACRAMENTAL graces or SANCTIFYING GRACES from the mass.  Those might not exist.  All I'm talking about is ACTUAL grace, which one can get at the grocery store, or while taking out the garbage.  Typically, when one is talking about grace and the N.O., they are referring to sacramental/sanctifying graces, which may/may not be there.  It's debatable.

    Offline apollo

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    Re: Novus Ordo Eucharistic Miracle (talk by Bp Williamson)
    « Reply #6 on: July 23, 2018, 02:09:50 PM »
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  • But Fr Pfeiffer MIGHT be right, if we're talking about SACRAMENTAL graces or SANCTIFYING GRACES from the mass. 
    Fr. Pfeiffer and Fr. Hewko are saying that Bp Williamson approves of the Novus Ordo Mass.
    That is a LIE.  Graces?  That is another topic.


    Offline happenby

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    Re: Novus Ordo Eucharistic Miracle (talk by Bp Williamson)
    « Reply #7 on: July 23, 2018, 02:16:31 PM »
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  • But Fr Pfeiffer MIGHT be right, if we're talking about SACRAMENTAL graces or SANCTIFYING GRACES from the mass.  Those might not exist.  All I'm talking about is ACTUAL grace, which one can get at the grocery store, or while taking out the garbage.  Typically, when one is talking about grace and the N.O., they are referring to sacramental/sanctifying graces, which may/may not be there.  It's debatable.
    How does Fr Pfeiffer prove this?    


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Novus Ordo Eucharistic Miracle (talk by Bp Williamson)
    « Reply #8 on: July 23, 2018, 03:28:58 PM »
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    How does Fr Pfeiffer prove this? 
    I don't know, go ask him.  All I can say is that there have been many cases where the NO was not a mass and the consecration was invalid.  In these cases, there was no sacrament, and no mass, so there was no sanctifying grace.  God does not grant sanctifying grace to invalid and immoral masses.  That's why it's SO important to go to a valid, legal and moral mass.  That's why everyone should avoid the NO...they could be missing out on MANY, MANY graces.

    Offline happenby

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    Re: Novus Ordo Eucharistic Miracle (talk by Bp Williamson)
    « Reply #9 on: July 23, 2018, 03:33:22 PM »
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  • I don't know, go ask him.  All I can say is that there have been many cases where the NO was not a mass and the consecration was invalid.  In these cases, there was no sacrament, and no mass, so there was no sanctifying grace.  God does not grant sanctifying grace to invalid and immoral masses.  That's why it's SO important to go to a valid, legal and moral mass.  That's why everyone should avoid the NO...they could be missing out on MANY, MANY graces.
    Agreed, people should go to the TLM because they could be missing out on many many graces.  

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Novus Ordo Eucharistic Miracle (talk by Bp Williamson)
    « Reply #10 on: July 23, 2018, 08:55:47 PM »
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  • You have not been talking to the same people I have been talking to.  
    I have heard several people say that (in real life situations).  
    Fr. Pfeifer and Fr. Hewko are saying something very very close to that,
    in public.
    .
    So you have a problem with what Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer and Fr. David Hewko and their followers are saying about +Williamson and his outlook on the Newmass regarding validity and graces received from it, therefore, you come on CathInfo and complain that "one thing that is very bad for the Resistance is the people in the Resistance... those people and priests who criticize Novus Ordo people, SSPX people, Bp Williamson and others."
    .
    I was under the impression you would post on CathInfo to address the viewers and members of CathInfo. But I was wrong. You are addressing and complaining about people who are NOT members of CathInfo. Which is a bit odd. Those people are NOT HERE.
    .
    If you have a problem with what "The Real Resistance" is doing or saying, why don't you go to their own forum and accuse them yourself?
    .
    Since you've been talking to them "in real life situations," why don't you just ask them "in real life situations?" 
    Or, are you afraid of them? And do you find hiding behind your anonymity on CathInfo much less challenging?
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    Offline apollo

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    Re: Novus Ordo Eucharistic Miracle (talk by Bp Williamson)
    « Reply #11 on: July 23, 2018, 09:43:29 PM »
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  • So you have a problem with what Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer and Fr. David Hewko and their followers are saying about +Williamson and his outlook on the Newmass regarding validity and graces received from it, therefore, you come on CathInfo and complain that "one thing that is very bad for the Resistance is the people in the Resistance... those people and priests who criticize Novus Ordo people, SSPX people, Bp Williamson and others."
    .
    I was under the impression you would post on CathInfo to address the viewers and members of CathInfo. But I was wrong. You are addressing and complaining about people who are NOT members of CathInfo. Which is a bit odd. Those people are NOT HERE.
    .
    If you have a problem with what "The Real Resistance" is doing or saying, why don't you go to their own forum and accuse them yourself?
    .
    Since you've been talking to them "in real life situations," why don't you just ask them "in real life situations?"
    Or, are you afraid of them? And do you find hiding behind your anonymity on CathInfo much less challenging?
    .
    I did not say anything about Fr. Pfieffer's or Fr. Hewko's thinking about graces in the NO Mass.  
    I did not say that any people or which people at CathInfo are doing the complaining.  
    I really doubt that you know what ALL the people at CathInfo have said about this topic.
    FYI, I went to Boston, KY and was there 3 days.  I ran from the nightmare.
    I find CathInfo to be more hostile than talking to people face to face ... probably because
    they are hiding behind their anonimity.
    BTW, there is a Saint Apollo.  So your accusing me of choosing a name of a pagan god, is
    just another reason I quit wasting my time at CathInfo for several months.
    Probably your profile has your real name, address and phone number.

    BTW, this is a public forum.  You don't have to be a member or commenter to read the posts.
    So you have no idea who is reading the posts.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Novus Ordo Eucharistic Miracle (talk by Bp Williamson)
    « Reply #12 on: July 23, 2018, 10:22:44 PM »
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  • I don't know, go ask him.  All I can say is that there have been many cases where the NO was not a mass and the consecration was invalid.  In these cases, there was no sacrament, and no mass, so there was no sanctifying grace.  God does not grant sanctifying grace to invalid and immoral masses.  That's why it's SO important to go to a valid, legal and moral mass.  That's why everyone should avoid the NO...they could be missing out on MANY, MANY graces.

    That is not Fr. Pfeiffer's argument:

    Fr. Pfeiffer teaches a new doctrine of sterile sacraments which directly contradicts the Council of Trent.

    He believes that a valid sacrament does not transmit sanctifying grace to a well-disposed communicant.

    That is flatly heretical.

    The examples he gives (e.g., from the writings of Leo XIII and St. Thomas, et al) of validly confected sacraments not transmitting grace to the recipient are all examples of ill-disposed recipients (e.g., schismatics) who have placed an obstacle over their souls to the reception of the graces available (obex gratiae).
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Novus Ordo Eucharistic Miracle (talk by Bp Williamson)
    « Reply #13 on: July 23, 2018, 10:33:47 PM »
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  • Quote
    That is not Fr. Pfeiffer's argument:
    Right, it’s mine.  I don’t know what Fr P’s argument is.  


    Quote
    He believes that a valid sacrament does not transmit sanctifying grace to a well-disposed communicant.
    You’re oversimplifying things.  Validity is one of 3 tests that a sacrament must meet.  Validity, Legality, Circuмstances.  If any of those 3 are sinful, then the sacrament is sinful, valid or not.  Therefore, if sinful, it wouldn’t provide grace.  I’m sure this is the distinction Fr P is making.  


     

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Novus Ordo Eucharistic Miracle (talk by Bp Williamson)
    « Reply #14 on: July 23, 2018, 10:36:52 PM »
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  • Right, it’s mine.  I don’t know what Fr P’s argument is.  

    You’re oversimplifying things.  Validity is one of 3 tests that a sacrament must meet.  Validity, Legality, Circuмstances.  If any of those 3 are sinful, then the sacrament is sinful, valid or not.  Therefore, if sinful, it wouldn’t provide grace.  I’m sure this is the distinction Fr P is making.  


     
    Sorry brother.
    You have some good things to say when it comes to arguing against the sedes.
    But when it comes to sacramental theology, you really don't know what you are talking about.
    Go back and re-read my post: 
    It is short, and correct.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."