Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: StonewallCatho on December 03, 2015, 03:23:27 PM
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LISTEN UP FOLKS:
The following comes directly from the mouth of a Resistance priest I know well:
A diocesan priest, very recently, told him: "At a meeting of diocesan priests, last month, Bishop Athanasius Schneider told us that Bishop Fellay signed an agreement with Rome last July. This agreement will be made public and official this coming December 8th. It will be shown as a good fruit from the Jubilee of Mercy. This agreement was made possible because both Pope Francis and Bishop Fellay recognized that not all the docuмents of Vatican II have the same weight on the doctrinal level, and that there is therefore room for future discussion on problematic issues."
This diocesan priest asked the Resistance priest not to mention his name, as this news was supposed to be kept secret until Dec. 8th.
Therefore, in order to protect his identity, I am not mentioning the name of the Resistance priest he talked to, neither those of the country and diocese where the meeting took place, and neither its exact date.
Nevertheless, I can tell you that both priests are trustworthy and serious.
Now, it is possible that a last minute glitch (our prayers?) will scrap the July agreement before it is publicized on Dec. 8th. But Bishop Schneider really said these things at a diocesan priests meeting, and he was not making a supposition or spreading a rumor. He was speaking from first hand knowledge.
Please, do not ask me for further information, as this is all I have.
Let us pray for a glitch to come, like in June 2012. We do not want the death of the Society.
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I heard that statement from FR Paul Kramer back in late May or Early June
this year when i was on Facebook. He tried to tell people but they shut him
out of the SSPX groups he was in and kicked him out and deleted all his info
on the matter, i was shocked and i believed it to be total and true from him.
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I guess we'll know if this is true in FIVE days. No need to dwell on it now. On December 8th or, at the latest, when we wake up on the 9th, we'll know whether or not this is true.
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For those who do not know:
December 8th is the date when seminarians and priests of the Society make or renew their engagements as members of the Society. So this is not only a very great Feast day, but also a very significant day for Society members.
That this date was chosen for the official announcement of the deal is therefore very significant. It means that on Dec. 8th, 2015, these engagements will happen AS PART OF THE OFFICIAL CHURCH. They will have the meaning of not only being members of the Society, but also of the Conciliar Church, as now (since last July) the Society as a whole is also a part of it, even if all members may not yet be aware of it.
God have mercy!
And Dec. 8, 2015 will also be the 50th anniversary of the close of Vatican II. :scratchchin:
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I guess we'll know if this is true in FIVE days. No need to dwell on it now. On December 8th or, at the latest, when we wake up on the 9th, we'll know whether or not this is true.
This is what I was thinking. If this is true, all of the trad forums will be hopping on 12/9.
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It wouldn't be unlike +Fellay to have signed something and not make it public for several months. Remember when he sent his AFD to Rome on April Fifteenth, 2012, but didn't make it announced to everyone until a year later, and that was after exchanging letters with the "other three" bishops within a few days of 4-15-12, the content of which made no reference to the fact that the AFD had been sent to Rome.
So, if this is true, then who's going to own the SSPX real estate? The local bishops?
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So, if this is true, then who's going to own the SSPX real estate? The local bishops?
Title to property doesn't necessarily transfer to the diocese (depending upon the actual deal, if there is one). Just as, for example, Notre Dame University isn't owned by the Diocese of Fort Wayne-South Bend, the SSPX would probably retain ownership of their properties.
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I'll wait for the official announcement.
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:popcorn:
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December 8th is the Feast of the Immaculate Conception.
:incense:
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
:detective:
How do you do it Holmes?
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Will establishment as a personal prelature give the Society bishops ordinary jurisdiction?
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Will establishment as a personal prelature give the Society bishops ordinary jurisdiction?
Interesting question. I believe it will. As others have said, we'll likely find out the details one way or the other in a matter of days.
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AMDG
:pray: :pray: :pray:
I am just curious. Are you praying that the rumor is false or that the rumor is true? Serious question.
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The SSPX produced rotten fruits, weak Priests, weak Bishops and weak people
All this because all people on top of the hierarchy don't believe in the dogmas of the Catholic faith , that's why God allows these societys to destroy themselves and to to show to the whole world they are not Catholic Society
So naturally Priests are also weak and follow non-Catholic doctrine.
I actually agree with this, although you're a bit harsh. If in fact one believes that non-Catholics can be saved, there's no serious issue with Vatican II. In fact, I would have beaten +Fellay back into the arms of Rome.
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The SSPX produced rotten fruits, weak Priests, weak Bishops and weak people
This is nothing less than the height of stupidity. The SSPX's efforts have led to hundreds of very solid traditional priests, given excellent seminary formation to thousands - including some members of this forum - and directly supports close to a million faithful and several traditional Catholic families worldwide, not to mention the millions who have indirectly benefited from its efforts, such as Indult Catholics and others who now have access to the true Mass. Its fruits arguably exceed that of all other traditional groups combined. The schismatic-heretical, Catholic doctrine denying, BOD-NFP attacking, dogmatic Dimondite heretics and schismatics have led to practically zero priests or seminarians, have misled many well-meaning Catholics to a fruitless empty rigorism - with a spirit permeated by the very same diabolical bitter zeal you exemplify - and have caused some to stay home alone and practically be on their way to losing the Faith or leaving the Church altogether. The very tone of your remark is rotten.
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The SSPX produced rotten fruits, weak Priests, weak Bishops and weak people
This is nothing less than the height of stupidity. The SSPX's efforts have led to hundreds of very solid traditional priests, given excellent seminary formation to thousands - including some members of this forum - and directly supports close to a million faithful and several traditional Catholic families worldwide, not to mention the millions who have indirectly benefited from its efforts, such as Indult Catholics and others who now have access to the true Mass. Its fruits arguably exceed that of all other traditional groups combined. The schismatic-heretical, Catholic doctrine denying, BOD-NFP attacking, dogmatic Dimondite heretics and schismatics have led to practically zero priests or seminarians, have misled many well-meaning Catholics to a fruitless empty rigorism - with a spirit permeated by the very same diabolical bitter zeal you exemplify - and have caused some to stay home alone and practically be on their way to losing the Faith or leaving the Church altogether. The very tone of your remark is rotten.
If it weren't for the SSPX back in the day, my soul and the souls of my family would be lost - no doubt about it. Because of the Society, at least I have a fighting chance.
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This really shouldn't be a surprise at all......
+ Fellay had made his position very clear (especially) in 2012........after getting rid of all the fighters for the faith. Rome wanted to make sure they got the 'whole kit and caboodle' of the NSSPX before letting them in.
Now, he and those following him can go have their fill :ready-to-eat: ......and all we can do is pray for their conversion.
"O generation of vipers, how can you speak good things, whereas you are evil? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. A good man out of a good treasure bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of an evil treasure bringeth forth evil things."
"He that is not with me, is against me: and he that gathereth not with me, scattereth."
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I am endlessly thankful for what the SSPX has done for me and my family. It taught me the Faith, how important it was to hold on and fight, and not to compromise. They taught me about the trap of V2, and the conciliar church that is no longer Catholic, and the poison of the NO Mass. Now it looks like we'll be fighting on without them as they sink into the rotten quagmire of Rome en masse.
*attn priests: I've read that you sink more slowly if you are very, very still...
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The SSPX produced rotten fruits, weak Priests, weak Bishops and weak people
This is nothing less than the height of stupidity. The SSPX's efforts have led to hundreds of very solid traditional priests, given excellent seminary formation to thousands - including some members of this forum - and directly supports close to a million faithful and several traditional Catholic families worldwide, not to mention the millions who have indirectly benefited from its efforts, such as Indult Catholics and others who now have access to the true Mass. Its fruits arguably exceed that of all other traditional groups combined. The schismatic-heretical, Catholic doctrine denying, BOD-NFP attacking, dogmatic Dimondite heretics and schismatics have led to practically zero priests or seminarians, have misled many well-meaning Catholics to a fruitless empty rigorism - with a spirit permeated by the very same diabolical bitter zeal you exemplify - and have caused some to stay home alone and practically be on their way to losing the Faith or leaving the Church altogether. The very tone of your remark is rotten.
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The SSPX produced rotten fruits, weak Priests, weak Bishops and weak people
This is nothing less than the height of stupidity. The SSPX's efforts have led to hundreds of very solid traditional priests, given excellent seminary formation to thousands - including some members of this forum - and directly supports close to a million faithful and several traditional Catholic families worldwide, not to mention the millions who have indirectly benefited from its efforts, such as Indult Catholics and others who now have access to the true Mass. Its fruits arguably exceed that of all other traditional groups combined. The schismatic-heretical, Catholic doctrine denying, BOD-NFP attacking, dogmatic Dimondite heretics and schismatics have led to practically zero priests or seminarians, have misled many well-meaning Catholics to a fruitless empty rigorism - with a spirit permeated by the very same diabolical bitter zeal you exemplify - and have caused some to stay home alone and practically be on their way to losing the Faith or leaving the Church altogether. The very tone of your remark is rotten.
I, too, am grateful to the Society for all it has done for me. But I now suspect the SSPX has been to the spiritual life what Medjugorje has been to Fatima. I suspect it has brought forth visible fruits while simultaneously serving to waylay souls from a more urgent truth in the battle for the Church and souls. I am, of course, referring to the likelihood that all of the conciliar church is a false church populated by false, heretical ecclesiastics with no jurisdiction and no valid sacraments. What seems to have been a success blessed by God could in fact be just another tactic of the devil to deliver a great number of souls into that false church.
Whether the deal is done or not, the Society has become 99.9% mute in attacking the heresies of the pope of the conciliar church
“Empty rigorism”, “bitter zeal” – who else have I heard using those terms lately?
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The SSPX has been a blessing from God. It is the reason why the Latin Mass is growing in many dioceses. I thank the SSPX for the Sacraments, excellent sermons and Catholic education. I loved the library and bookstore full of awesome books. The only problem was the laity was two faced and stuck up at our local chapel.
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Nishant says:
"The SSPX... directly supports close to a million faithful"
1,000,000? Maybe 10,000. Can you prove the million?
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schismatic-heretical, Catholic doctrine denying, BOD-NFP attacking, dogmatic Dimondite heretics and schismatics
You know where you can put this, Nishant.
BoD and NFP have been the ruination of Catholic faith and morals respectively in these times.
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The SSPX produced rotten fruits, weak Priests, weak Bishops and weak people
This is nothing less than the height of stupidity. The SSPX's efforts have led to hundreds of very solid traditional priests, given excellent seminary formation to thousands - including some members of this forum - and directly supports close to a million faithful and several traditional Catholic families worldwide, not to mention the millions who have indirectly benefited from its efforts, such as Indult Catholics and others who now have access to the true Mass. Its fruits arguably exceed that of all other traditional groups combined. The schismatic-heretical, Catholic doctrine denying, BOD-NFP attacking, dogmatic Dimondite heretics and schismatics have led to practically zero priests or seminarians, have misled many well-meaning Catholics to a fruitless empty rigorism - with a spirit permeated by the very same diabolical bitter zeal you exemplify - and have caused some to stay home alone and practically be on their way to losing the Faith or leaving the Church altogether. The very tone of your remark is rotten.
If it weren't for the SSPX back in the day, my soul and the souls of my family would be lost - no doubt about it. Because of the Society, at least I have a fighting chance.
BJ5, you are absolutely right and no one can argue with the fact that God chose Archbishop Lefebvre and his Society to maintain the Catholic Mass and priesthood. For decades the SSPX has successfully done this alone save for a few friendly independent priests who worked with the Society or at least did not work against tradition.
I have to assume that those few nitwits here who have no gratitude for the Society either do not possess the Faith or have not been around long enough to know the history of the Church since Vatican II, and therefore should not be posting and showing off their ignorance.
Whatever happens in the future, a great debt is owed to the Archbishop and to all those good priests who have sacrificed their comfort, health, sanity and lives for the salvation of souls. God bless them all and give to them strong Faith and final perseverance.
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schismatic-heretical, Catholic doctrine denying, BOD-NFP attacking, dogmatic Dimondite heretics and schismatics
You know where you can put this, Nishant.
BoD and NFP have been the ruination of Catholic faith and morals respectively in these times.
It seems to me that so-called biological evolution ought to fit in there somewhere.
Hear this new Judith Sharpe interview (http://isoc.ws/) (duration 1:11:30) with Hugh Owen of the Kolbe Center for the Study of Creation.
Abortion would be socially unthinkable today, were it not for widespread belief in the nonsense of evolution, regardless of BoD. But the development NFP can be seen as a CONSEQUENCE of this same evolutionary false belief.
A Catholic girl today can be just as likely to have an abortion as her atheist classmates not because of BoD or NFP but because of evolutionary mythology being taught in place of the truth.
The foundation of Marxism and materialism is evolutioinsm not communism. All of the founding fathers of communism -- Lenin - Stalin - Trotsky -- lost their faith because of evolutionism. It was the principle error of Russia that spread through the world.
Lenin was a baptized orthodox Christian who lost his faith because of evolution, and authorized the murder of millions of his countrymen because they obstructed the progress of evolutionary theory. Stalin was educated in a monastic seminary but read Darwin and spread his lies to his fellow seminarians, all of whom then left the Church.
If the people could be made to accept evolution they would be able to accept everything else. Hitler made sure all of his leaders were steeped in evolutionary thought. None of these people were led astray by BoD or NFP.
Feminism is a direct consequence of evolutionary thinking which was leading to unfaith in Scripture and so on.
BoD and NFP can be seen as an also-ran or consequence of the worldwide loss of faith that is ignited with the mythology of evolution which replaced Catholic theology.
Whatever dark cloud of sinister malediction hangs over the SSPX can be largely disbursed if the true doctrine of creation would be openly taught in all the SSPX seminaries, schools and parishes. The boogeyman isn't BoD or NFP. Those will take care of themselves when the real enemy is squarely dealt with.
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I would pay good money to see the SSPX finally lose its undeserved traditional label. It would have stayed within the mainstream had it not been expelled in the same way Bp. Williamson was expelled from the Society. Belonging to degenerate Rome in spite of her occupation by devils and false gods seems to be the prize of most of its members and no doubt an exciting moment for its current followers.
Going the same way as Opus Dei seems to be the final outcome of its rather painfully confusing history. No doubt many got sucked into a seemingly half-hearted attempt to distance itself from the new religion but duplicity was always a feature of its operation. I have witnessed priests slowly changing their tune as the political climate changed and numerous laymen vote with their feet out of the confusion. I am wondering what will fill the vacuum on these sites when the Society officially receives its kiss of death. Claiming to be the rightful heir to the throne was going to be rather futile when the cause was arriving at its logical conclusion.
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Will the announcement be made from the h0Ɩ0cαųst Museum?
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Woops. I used the wrong word.
The foundation of Marxism and materialism is evolutioinsm, not communism. All of the founding fathers of communism -- Lenin - Stalin - Trotsky -- lost their faith because of evolutionism. It was the principal error of Russia (as heard in Fatima) that spread through the world.
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ENOUGH about BoD and Feenyism outside the appointed subforum.
I don't want that time-wastery (in the eyes of most members here) to derail this important thread.
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Here is the new sign just installed outside the new chapel they just bought, note it does not say "Traditional Latin Mass" - I think this is by design. The first Mass in this chapel is tomorrow, Dec. 8th, for The Immaculate Conception.
About 15 miles away is the chapel they are selling, which they've been in for the last +40 years, it was their first seminary in the USA and it is dilapidated.
Here (http://www.loopnet.com/Property-Record/57575-Romeo-Plank-Road-Ray-MI-48096/EXm46Mo0A/) are some pictures of the building.
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Nishant says:
"The SSPX... directly supports close to a million faithful"
1,000,000? Maybe 10,000. Can you prove the million?
If you dispute this figure or any of the holy, humble but intellectual stuff put out by "Nishant" then you've got to be suffering from DIABOLICAL BITTER ZEAL man!. An American SSPX priest once put the number of faithful in the US at "about 20,000". A French priest said that in France there were "about 80,000". Let's leave "Nishant" to provide the rest of the numbers.
France: 80,000.
USA: 20,000
South America: about 5,000.
Mexico: about 3,000.
Until now: about 108,000.
With these parcial data, we can see this is impossible: "The SSPX... directly supports close to a million faithful"
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Nishant says:
"The SSPX... directly supports close to a million faithful"
1,000,000? Maybe 10,000. Can you prove the million?
If you dispute this figure or any of the holy, humble but intellectual stuff put out by "Nishant" then you've got to be suffering from DIABOLICAL BITTER ZEAL man!. An American SSPX priest once put the number of faithful in the US at "about 20,000". A French priest said that in France there were "about 80,000". Let's leave "Nishant" to provide the rest of the numbers.
France: 80,000.
USA: 20,000
South America: about 5,000.
Mexico: about 3,000.
Until now: about 108,000.
With these parcial data, we can see this is impossible: "The SSPX... directly supports close to a million faithful"
Asia 1000, Africa 1000
=110,000 ( i.e. if the French and US numbers are not inflated) so far.....
THANK YOU, DEAR AJNC.
THEN, THE SSPX DIRECTLY SUPPORTS CLOSE TO 100,000 FAITHFUL.
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I think those numbers for the U.S. and France are very inflated. World-wide I would estimate it is closer to 50,000 to 60,000 total SSPX followers.
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So...
The question, today, December 7th 2015, is: Who will be the first to post the announcement? If there even is an announcement, it should be made well before Americans awake.
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So...
The question, today, December 7th 2015, is: Who will be the first to post the announcement? If there even is an announcement, it should be made well before Americans awake.
"Nishant"? :really-mad2:
[ Quote:
Will establishment as a personal prelature give the Society bishops ordinary jurisdiction?
Quote: Nishant
Interesting question. I believe it will. As others have said, we'll likely find out the details one way or the other in a matter of days.]
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For whatever it's worth, according to their own website the SSPX Stats for 2012 (http://archives.sspx.org/SSPX_FAQs/q1_sspx.htm) say 25,000 in the USA and 600,000 total.
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This is amusing. For the benefit of posters who may not know, AJNC has publicly accused me of being Fr. Laisney. Now, I respect Fr. Laisney, so I can't say I'm offended; on the contrary, he's a good and faithful priest, so I'm honored. But the truth, of course, is that Nishant is my real name, (Matthew and a few others know my second name), I'm not Fr. Laisney, and a moment's thought, or a simple PM to Matthew or even to me would have confirmed that for "AJNC". But since he insists on talking past me, let me tell him, I am not a priest, though I seriously discerned a vocation to the priesthood under the guidance of a traditional priest about 2 years ago. I - like many others here who have clearly stated as much - owe a lot the SSPX and I'm sure would, if we were so called, be filled with measureless gratitude to serve or have one of our sons serve God in the traditional Catholic priesthood in an SSPX seminary.
I don't have the statistics at hand, though I vaguely recall seeing it cited somewhere as an estimated 1.2 million traditional Catholics who depend on the Society's worldwide apostolate. That's probably an inflated number; I don't have the source at hand and will have to recheck it; I apologize if I was mistaken on that. I am not, however, any of those other things you accused me of being, but have never claimed to be and so don't have to answer that.
THANK YOU, DEAR NISHANT.
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But the truth, of course, is that Nishant is my real name...
Since we have time before announcement time and there's really nothing more to hash over until tomorrow, I was wondering, Nishant, if you would shed more light on that name. I am curious as I've never heard such a name before. Would you tell us the origin of that name? Is it a derivative of something? I am unable to identify a saint with the name, so I am truly interested in knowing more. Thanks in advance.
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For whatever it's worth, according to their own website the SSPX Stats for 2012 (http://archives.sspx.org/SSPX_FAQs/q1_sspx.htm) say 25,000 in the USA and 600,000 total.
Thank you dear Stubborn.
It seems that the SSPX lies.
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This is amusing. For the benefit of posters who may not know, AJNC has publicly accused me of being Fr. Laisney. Now, I respect Fr. Laisney, so I can't say I'm offended; on the contrary, he's a good and faithful priest, so I'm honored. But the truth, of course, is that Nishant is my real name, (Matthew and a few others know my second name), I'm not Fr. Laisney, and a moment's thought, or a simple PM to Matthew or even to me would have confirmed that for "AJNC". But since he insists on talking past me, let me tell him, I am not a priest, though I seriously discerned a vocation to the priesthood under the guidance of a traditional priest about 2 years ago. I - like many others here who have clearly stated as much - owe a lot the SSPX and I'm sure would, if we were so called, be filled with measureless gratitude to serve or have one of our sons serve God in the traditional Catholic priesthood in an SSPX seminary.
I don't have the statistics at hand, though I vaguely recall seeing it cited somewhere as an estimated 1.2 million traditional Catholics who depend on the Society's worldwide apostolate. That's probably an inflated number; I don't have the source at hand and will have to recheck it; I apologize if I was mistaken on that. I am not, however, any of those other things you accused me of being, but have never claimed to be and so don't have to answer that.
It would be insane of me to insist that you are someone you insist that you are not!. So I apologize unreservedly for claiming that you are Fr Laisney. The only explanation I have is that I have heard Fr Laisney speak about an accord with Newrome and I concluded that you and him are one and the same person. Once again, I'm sorry!
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Nishant says:
"The SSPX... directly supports close to a million faithful"
1,000,000? Maybe 10,000. Can you prove the million?
If you dispute this figure or any of the holy, humble but intellectual stuff put out by "Nishant" then you've got to be suffering from DIABOLICAL BITTER ZEAL man!. An American SSPX priest once put the number of faithful in the US at "about 20,000". A French priest said that in France there were "about 80,000". Let's leave "Nishant" to provide the rest of the numbers.
France: 80,000.
USA: 20,000
South America: about 5,000.
Mexico: about 3,000.
Until now: about 108,000.
With these parcial data, we can see this is impossible: "The SSPX... directly supports close to a million faithful"
Asia 1000, Africa 1000
=110,000 ( i.e. if the French and US numbers are not inflated) so far.....
THANK YOU, DEAR AJNC.
THEN, THE SSPX DIRECTLY SUPPORTS CLOSE TO 100,000 FAITHFUL.
"There are nearly 251,000 Amish people in America and Canada, according to Ohio State University researchers. That's more than double the estimated population in 1989 of about 100,000. Researchers estimate the population will double again to half a million within about 21 years."
Kind of helps to put things into perspective, eh?
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I would set my alarm for early tomorrow morning to hear the first news out of the Vatican but I am betting this is just another Pfeiffer/Hewko inspired bust so I'll stick with my beauty sleep.
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I would set my alarm for early tomorrow morning to hear the first news out of the Vatican but I am betting this is just another Pfeiffer/Hewko inspired bust so I'll stick with my beauty sleep.
Just recall the words of Fr. Wegner back on Oct. 31 when he said, "Don't be surprised to wake up one morning and Pope Francis has accepted us!" We'll see.
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I would set my alarm for early tomorrow morning to hear the first news out of the Vatican but I am betting this is just another Pfeiffer/Hewko inspired bust so I'll stick with my beauty sleep.
Just recall the words of Fr. Wegner back on Oct. 31 when he said, "Don't be surprised to wake up one morning and Pope Francis has accepted us!" We'll see.
Fr. Wegner spends too much time on the Boston, KY website.
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For whatever it's worth, according to their own website the SSPX Stats for 2012 (http://archives.sspx.org/SSPX_FAQs/q1_sspx.htm) say 25,000 in the USA and 600,000 total.
Yet according to a + Fellay interview with Salt and Light TV back on June 15 2009 their worldwide attendance varied between 250,000 and 750,000 per Sunday - half a million difference ! (What's a half million - or so - between friends ?) Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XhhM8WXjFA)
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I would set my alarm for early tomorrow morning to hear the first news out of the Vatican but I am betting this is just another Pfeiffer/Hewko inspired bust so I'll stick with my beauty sleep.
Just recall the words of Fr. Wegner back on Oct. 31 when he said, "Don't be surprised to wake up one morning and Pope Francis has accepted us!" We'll see.
Fr. Wegner spends too much time on the Boston, KY website.
Father Wegner doesn't have to go to Boston, KY for information when he has a direct line to Menzingen.
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I would set my alarm for early tomorrow morning to hear the first news out of the Vatican but I am betting this is just another Pfeiffer/Hewko inspired bust so I'll stick with my beauty sleep.
Please note that the Resistance priest at the origin of this thread has nothing to do with OLMC in Kentucky. When I started the thread, I have not mentioned anything that could suggest this priest was from North America or any other English Speaking country. Although I speak three languages, I have reported the facts here, in English, because CathInfo is a good and widely frequented forum, as was exemplified by the debunking of the con artist and fraud Ambrose William Moran. So I wanted to give CathInfo this new "scoop".
I really have to protect the identity of the Resistance priest, because he has promised the diocesan priest not to reveal his name. And knowing who is the Resistance priest, and where he resides in the world, would allow the diocesan bishop to know the source of the leak from the November priest meeting, especially since the priest in question is an "Indult" priest. This priest could then be in big trouble.
But, as I said before, I know these two priests very well, and I can assure you that what I presented last Thursday are true facts. Bishop Schneider said these things as being true facts. But I cannot, of course, guarantee that what he said will happen. Maybe bishop Schneider has been misled, or has been trying to mislead us (he had to know a leak was bound to happen...). I cannot say. Or something happenned between July and now which the bishop is not aware of. Once again, I cannot say.
I just thought I would reveal this to the cathInfo people, and ask for prayers for the Society. That is all there is to it.
God bless.
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No problem, Patricius. Tomorrow morning, this rumor will be resolved.
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No problem, Patricius. Tomorrow morning, this rumor will be resolved.
I hope it happens. It will just be confirmation that anybody can fall and the SSPX is NOT the Church. But then again I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't go through. I can imagine a sizeable number of priests threatening bishop Fellay with schism. I am not certain the king will risk his empire.
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I still don't think anything's going to be official until Francis comes out with his final report on the Synod.
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Patricius, I appreciate that you shared the information with us. I believe what you reported to us regardless of how it works out. I never would have imagined that I would be living through, all over again, what transpired after Vatican II. In a way I hope that something definitive is announced soon so that all of the undecided or sceptical people will no longer be left wondering which way to go. They will be face to face with the facts and will have to either compromise or leave and that includes the clergy as well.
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Thanks, AJNC. God bless you. Also, don't mean to be a party spoiler, but I genuinely have no more inside information on this matter than has been released publicly. :) Dear TKGS, I just sent you a PM.
Just did a brief check anyway, but there doesn't seem to be anything up on the SSPX website, on DICI, Rorate, Vatican Insider etc regarding this yet. I personally doubt that anything formal will be announced today. Let's wait and see.
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Thanks, AJNC. God bless you. Also, don't mean to be a party spoiler, but I genuinely have no more inside information on this matter than has been released publicly. :) Dear TKGS, I just sent you a PM.
Just did a brief check anyway, but there doesn't seem to be anything up on the SSPX website, on DICI, Rorate, Vatican Insider etc regarding this yet. I personally doubt that anything formal will be announced today. Let's wait and see.
I have been looking too. I haven't seen anything on Zenit, Catholic News Agency, or Catholic World New. Could it be that this story about a "deal" was a lie?
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Another rumor from an otherwise reliable and well-connected anonymous source bites the dust. Do we not have the resources to be Catholic without hanging on to what the SSPX or +Fellay does? Is it time to move on yet or is our gluttonous obsession with all things SSPX part of our existence feeding a hunger that cannot be otherwise satisfied? Is our existence, even our name, to be characterized forever by what we are NOT?
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Maybe some people think I should say "I am sorry, it was only a rumor after all"?
I am not sorry. I have only reported a conversation between two serious priests about what Bishop Schneider actually said in November at a priest meeting. I asked for prayers to have the deal scrapped.
Maybe people did pray, and the deal was scrapped. Then I thank you all and the BVM.
But you also have to remember that Bishop Schneider said that the deal has been signed last July.
One thing I didn't mentioned last Thursday was that the bishop also said to the priests that the visitations of the SSPX seminaries by himself, cardinal Brandmüller, and others, were concluded positively, and that the official reports given to the Pope by these visitors were all very laudatory.
The only thing that didn't happen was the official announcement that was supposed to happen today. It doesn't mean the July deal has been scrapped. Maybe bishop Fellay considers the annoucement would have been too soon, and he wants to better prepare SSPX members. Who knows?
One day we will know.
God bless you all.
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Stone the false prophet!
:heretic: :roll-laugh1:
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Stone the false prophet!
:heretic: :roll-laugh1:
:cheers:
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Well, we weren't given an announcement today, but we had the best barn-burning anti-Conciliar Church, anti-Vatican II sermon, from one of those young priests many are sure are so ill-formed, that I have heard in a long, long time. And he got very specific and detailed. It could have come from the mouth of Archbishop Lefebvre himself. I wanted to stand up and cheer. But I did get tears in my eyes.
Thank you Oh Immaculata! :pray:
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Well, we weren't given an announcement today, but we had the best barn-burning anti-Conciliar Church, anti-Vatican II sermon, from one of those young priests many are sure are so ill-formed, that I have heard in a long, long time. And he got very specific and detailed. It could have come from the mouth of Archbishop Lefebvre himself. I wanted to stand up and cheer. But I did get tears in my eyes.
Thank you Oh Immaculata! :pray:
Good for him.
I have to point out that this isn't InThisSign or anything else associated with Fr. Pfeiffer and his "red light the SSPX and any other priest that doesn't submit to me" position. I would go further and say that MOST on CathInfo tend to agree that such a red-light position is borderline schismatic (if not outright schismatic) and not a Catholic stance.
It's not about the individual priests. I'm sure many of them are nice, holy, sincere, etc. Just like many priests in 1969. But when you approach a crossroads, when a crisis approaches, everyone has to make a choice. Sometimes an entire organization falls. Such is the case with the SSPX today. It's the organization I (and the entire Resistance) opposes. Not the individual priests and laity, except insofar as they push the pro-Vatican 2 agenda.
This priest could be great in many ways. Too bad his anti-Vatican 2 stance goes against the organization he's currently a member of and owes obedience to.
Eventually he will have to make a choice. Become an independent/Resistance priest, or compromise and become Indult with the rest of the SSPX.
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Another rumor from an otherwise reliable and well-connected anonymous source bites the dust. Do we not have the resources to be Catholic without hanging on to what the SSPX or +Fellay does? Is it time to move on yet or is our gluttonous obsession with all things SSPX part of our existence feeding a hunger that cannot be otherwise satisfied? Is our existence, even our name, to be characterized forever by what we are NOT?
Another brain bites the dust.
How is posting a single post "obsessing"? You do realize, of course, that this long thread has lots of *different* people each contributing 1, 5, 10 minutes of their time to it. 10 minutes does not constitute an obsession, much less a "gluttonous obsession".
I notice you have contributed to this thread as much as (half?) the participants. Physician, heal thyself. You're not "above it all" as much as you think you are.
And where the heck do you get the notion that we needed this thread to stay Catholic? Now you're just pulling stuff out of your ___. Well I'm here to tell you your sanctimonious sounding accusations have no basis in reality whatsoever.
As for the name "Resistance", we have to use language to convey meaning. What do you propose, "Christian" and be thought protestant? Or go with "Catholic" and be considered Novus Ordo? If we stick with "Traditional Catholic" that could mean anything, from Indult to sedevacantist. Sometimes it's handy to have a name that sizes up a position accurately.
I think Resistance (to Modernism) works well. And you bet we're "against" Modernism as long as the heresy holds traction. Yes, it sounds contrarian, but we really ARE marching contrary to the whole broad path to the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr represented by the Conciliar Church and it's bosom buddy, the Modern World.
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Another rumor from an otherwise reliable and well-connected anonymous source bites the dust. Do we not have the resources to be Catholic without hanging on to what the SSPX or +Fellay does? Is it time to move on yet or is our gluttonous obsession with all things SSPX part of our existence feeding a hunger that cannot be otherwise satisfied? Is our existence, even our name, to be characterized forever by what we are NOT?
This is the condition/disease contracted by the SSPX family and it hard for some folk to be cured of it. The post-conciliar world has left us not knowing what to do with our residual Catholicism and we seek in vain some kind of structure and community that resembles the past however imperfectly in which to exercise it.
The SSPX was such a timely option for trads and it was kept alive because it constructed a conveniently fuzzy formula that appealed to those daring to challenge the Romans yet not wanting to lose that strange romantic feeling they had for this mecca of the west. I can understand fading French aristocrats jumping on such a bandwagon but less so the successors of Americans desperate to escape the old European order. What contradictions come to mind when contrasting the life and times of a system which divinely exercised the partnership of church and state with the terms and practices of the new republican idyll defining the USA! Anyway, these are more grounds for confusion.
Now, the soap opera we are witnessing is being kept alive (and I do not mean with infusions of ox blood) through regular cloak and dagger instances as drugs feeding the sick SSPX mentality. Secrecy and wild speculation seems to be the principal religion of the audience and a ritual has been developed keeping them on the edge of their pews. The crooks in black in Menzingen know how to play this game and their pathetic acolytes worldwide head the list of useful fools. In time this affair will become an amusing footnote as a recorded minor distraction that so engaged a dying remnant. But students of history will indeed note it for its negative characteristics rather than its positive ones.
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Another rumor from an otherwise reliable and well-connected anonymous source bites the dust. Do we not have the resources to be Catholic without hanging on to what the SSPX or +Fellay does? Is it time to move on yet or is our gluttonous obsession with all things SSPX part of our existence feeding a hunger that cannot be otherwise satisfied? Is our existence, even our name, to be characterized forever by what we are NOT?
Another brain bites the dust.
How is posting a single post "obsessing"? You do realize, of course, that this long thread has lots of *different* people each contributing 1, 5, 10 minutes of their time to it. 10 minutes does not constitute an obsession, much less a "gluttonous obsession".
I notice you have contributed to this thread as much as (half?) the participants. Physician, heal thyself. You're not "above it all" as much as you think you are.
And where the heck do you get the notion that we needed this thread to stay Catholic? Now you're just pulling stuff out of your ___. Well I'm here to tell you your sanctimonious sounding accusations have no basis in reality whatsoever.
As for the name "Resistance", we have to use language to convey meaning. What do you propose, "Christian" and be thought protestant? Or go with "Catholic" and be considered Novus Ordo? If we stick with "Traditional Catholic" that could mean anything, from Indult to sedevacantist. Sometimes it's handy to have a name that sizes up a position accurately.
I think Resistance (to Modernism) works well. And you bet we're "against" Modernism as long as the heresy holds traction. Yes, it sounds contrarian, but we really ARE marching contrary to the whole broad path to the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr represented by the Conciliar Church and it's bosom buddy, the Modern World.
My point was that if the SSPX is not now what it was founded as, why perpetuate our (loose) organization in terms of what it is not? We resist the SSPX, we are the anti-SSPX, we are what they used to be, etc.
Will the resistance ever be able to distinguish itself without using the term SSPX, especially as the chasm between the SSPX and the Resistance grows wider?
I think my brain is still fairly in tact, BTW, although a bit old perhaps.
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But you also have to remember that Bishop Schneider said that the deal has been signed last July.
One thing I didn't mentioned last Thursday was that the bishop also said to the priests that the visitations of the SSPX seminaries by himself, cardinal Brandmüller, and others, were concluded positively, and that the official reports given to the Pope by these visitors were all very laudatory.
Bishop Schneider visited the seminary in February. A month after the supposed signing, in August, he gave an interview recommending that the SSPX should be accepted "as they are."
Perhaps what we have are all truthful pieces that just don't go to the same puzzle.
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Even though some of the Catholic heirarchy accept them ,
it does seem good enough to those against tradition. In the
light of the Apostasy we really need a rosary crusade !
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Rorate Caeli has another advertisement for the SSPX seminary today. Announcement coming soon?
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2015/12/updatevideo-on-new-traditional-seminary.html
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I watched the video, and was inspired to post this:
http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Flashback-history-repeats-itself
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Rorate Caeli has another advertisement for the SSPX seminary today. Announcement coming soon?
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2015/12/updatevideo-on-new-traditional-seminary.html
Watching the video I was disappointed to sse at the 1:41 mark, on the wall in the classroom the bottom half of the cross with the resurrected Christ instead of the crucifix. I've see this cross in other videos of the seminary.
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I agree with your flashback post, Matthew.
Also: The latest video of the new seminary is totally "branded". Nothing there about the fight against VII and its reforms. Just a brief mention of the Archbishop, and it was only to reduce his message to the need for good priests. It totally evacuates the most important part of his life. There is no better way to destroy somebody's work, than to reduce it to an ordinary aspect. What I mean is that it is normal for the Church to wish to have good priests who can say Mass and the breviary piously, and who love to pray in a darkened chapel before to go to bed. But it is extraordinary that a bishop would be excommunicated for combatting errors that spread to the top of the Church, and for making priests who would continue his fight. This new video, like so many other things since the foundation of GREC in 1997, is a betrayal. It is putting the Archbishop through a second death: That of his legacy.
In other words: This whole video could have been done by any Ecclesia Dei congregation.
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In the video they advertise themselves as the "solution to the crisis" (and R.C. obviously agrees) while they both reject + Faire's consecration. Such rejection can only mean that they were "IN" back when they were approved in Argentina as Rorate Caeli's Argentinian canon (?) lawyer reported when they broke the news.
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My point was that if the SSPX is not now what it was founded as, why perpetuate our (loose) organization in terms of what it is not? We resist the SSPX, we are the anti-SSPX, we are what they used to be, etc.
Will the resistance ever be able to distinguish itself without using the term SSPX, especially as the chasm between the SSPX and the Resistance grows wider?
I think my brain is still fairly in tact, BTW, although a bit old perhaps.
I'm glad someone said this. It's like the Protestants still calling themselves that, in reference to a "protest" against something else. Better to go the way Taiwan did by officially calling itself "the Republic of China" in opposition to China, having become "the People's Republic of China" when it went communist.
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I just saw an article on Secretum Meum Mihi about the Brazilian Fr. Cicero Romao Batista, who died excommunicated in 1934 and was just “reinstated” by Francis for the “Year of Mercy”.
Do not be surprised if the announcement of the “reintegration” of the SSPX comes with the lifting of the “excommunication” of ABL also as an act of “mercy”. Martin Luther himself is expected to be “reinstated” before 2017. What an insult to ABL that would be! After reading the article, I’m convinced that it will have to be done to deceive many in the SSPX. Maybe that was a motivation (trap) for the SSPX leadership. If so, they would place their beloved founder in the same category with heretics.
http://secretummeummihi.blogspot.com/
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I would pay good money to see the SSPX finally lose its undeserved traditional label. It would have stayed within the mainstream had it not been expelled in the same way Bp. Williamson was expelled from the Society. Belonging to degenerate Rome in spite of her occupation by devils and false gods seems to be the prize of most of its members and no doubt an exciting moment for its current followers.
Going the same way as Opus Dei seems to be the final outcome of its rather painfully confusing history. No doubt many got sucked into a seemingly half-hearted attempt to distance itself from the new religion but duplicity was always a feature of its operation. I have witnessed priests slowly changing their tune as the political climate changed and numerous laymen vote with their feet out of the confusion. I am wondering what will fill the vacuum on these sites when the Society officially receives its kiss of death. Claiming to be the rightful heir to the throne was going to be rather futile when the cause was arriving at its logical conclusion.
It seems that in the "Asia District" the SSPX is using the Ordo published by the FSSP. Also, this district, I'm told, is seeking to meet with local Modernist bishops with a view to be allowed to use Novus Ordo Church premises to celebrate the TLM.
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In the video they advertise themselves as the "solution to the crisis" (and R.C. obviously agrees) while they both reject +Faure's consecration. Such rejection can only mean that they were "IN" back when they were approved in Argentina as Rorate Caeli's Argentinian canon (?) lawyer reported when they broke the news.
I can't wait to see what they'll all have to say when +Williamson and +Faure join forces to consecrate two MORE new bishops! :reporter:
I really enjoy +Faure's solid outlook on the crisis in the Church. He has a way of getting right to the crux of the matter. He's cheerful and confident, and that's what the Resistance needs.
.
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In the video they advertise themselves as the "solution to the crisis" (and R.C. obviously agrees) while they both reject +Faure's consecration. Such rejection can only mean that they were "IN" back when they were approved in Argentina as Rorate Caeli's Argentinian canon (?) lawyer reported when they broke the news.
I can't wait to see what they'll all have to say when +Williamson and +Faure join forces to consecrate two MORE new bishops! :reporter:
I really enjoy +Faure's solid outlook on the crisis in the Church. He has a way of getting right to the crux of the matter. He's cheerful and confident, and that's what the Resistance needs.
.
Maybe +Faure will finally take on the mantle that +Williamson wants no part of.
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True Christians and Unity will solve the Crisis !
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Now DICI is promoting the film on Bergoglio's biography.
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Now DICI is promoting the film on Bergoglio's biography.
Promoting is the wrong word. They are reporting it. Just as, in that same section, they are reporting on (and not promoting) the mosque in Paris, and the terrorist attack in the Congo.
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Now DICI is promoting the film on Bergoglio's biography.
Promoting is the wrong word. They are reporting it. Just as, in that same section, they are reporting on (and not promoting) the mosque in Paris, and the terrorist attack in the Congo.
You can call it what you will but there are movies about JPII I have not seen "reported" on DICI. It's obviously worth there time and space.
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Excerpts from the Nov. 15, Letter to Friends and Benefactors #85
On the Feast of the Presentation of the Blessed Virgin, November 21, 2015
+ Bernard Fellay
On the occasion of the Synod on the Family, you sent a petition to the Holy Father, then a declaration. Why?
The purpose of our petition was to point out as clearly as possible to the Supreme Pontiff the seriousness of the present hour and the decisive impact of his ruling in moral matters of such importance. Pope Francis learned of our sentiments on September 18th, before his departure for Cuba and the United States, and he informed us that he would change nothing of the Catholic doctrine concerning marriage, particularly its indissolubility. But we feared that, in practice, the indissoluble character of the matrimonial bond would be disregarded. And this is in fact what happened, on the one hand with the motu proprio reforming the procedure for declaring the
nullity of marriages, and on the other hand with the final docuмent of this Synod. Hence my declaration intending to recall to mind the constant teaching of the Church on a multitude of points that were discussed and sometimes called into question during the month of October. I will not conceal from you the fact that to me the sorry spectacle that the Synod presented seems particularly shameful and scandalous on more than one count.
To read the full letter, please click http://www.fsspx.org/en/publications/letters/nov-2015-letter-friends-and-benefactors-85-12743
It is apparent that Bishop Fellay is somewhat upset at the turn of events. Perhaps this is why any announcement is not being made official because there are still some loose ends.
Nevertheless, with the history of Vatican intrigues and deception, why did Bishop Fellay seem to think that the Vatican would honor his requests? Is he just plain naive or part of the problem? Frankly, I think he has been bought out or blackmailed.
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Now DICI is promoting the film on Bergoglio's biography.
Promoting is the wrong word. They are reporting it. Just as, in that same section, they are reporting on (and not promoting) the mosque in Paris, and the terrorist attack in the Congo.
You can call it what you will but there are movies about JPII I have not seen "reported" on DICI. It's obviously worth there time and space.
Perhaps that is because the most notable movies/mini-series about JPII pre-date DICI. This "there is an agreement coming under every rock" mentality is a real credibility crusher.
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This "there is an agreement coming under every rock" mentality is a real credibility crusher.
IF there is no agreement is because Francis hasn't wanted it, not +Fellay. The SSPX leadership has made it clear where their (Roman) hearts are. The only "credibility crusher" is their own hypocrisy. If they (SSPX) want to go to Rome...be gone! They should follow their conscience. And if they are already there via Argentina, they should not pretend they are not. They could not have any problems with an agreement because they consider +Faure's consecration unnecessary while claiming not have signed.
The SSPX didn't even learn from the FI disaster and they were only guilty by association (friendship) with the SSPX. Wait and see what they will do to the SSPX if they are stupid enough to do it (or have done it).
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Here is a quote from an interview of Bishop Schneider by Rorate Caeli published on Jan.31, 2016. He talks about the SSPX and Rome.
"Rorate Caeli: A non-typical situation in the church is the Priestly Society of St. Pius X (SSPX). Why does Your Excellency think that so many Catholics are afraid of the SSPX or anxious about any association with it? From what Your Excellency has seen, what gifts do you think the SSPX can bring to the mainstream Church?
H.E. Schneider: When someone or something is unimportant and weak, nobody has fear of it. Those who have fear of the Priestly Society of St. Pius X ultimately have fear of the perennial Catholic truths and of its demands in the moral and the liturgical domain.
When the SSPX tries to believe, to worship and to live morally the way our fore-fathers and the best-known Saints did during a millennial period, then one has to consider the life and the work of these Catholic priests and faithful of the SSPX as a gift for the Church in our days – even as one of the several instruments which the Divine Providence uses to remedy the enormity of the current general crisis of the faith, of the morals and of the liturgy inside the Church.
In some sectors of the SSPX there are, however, as it is the case in every human society some eccentric personalities. They have a method and a mindset which lack justice and charity and consequently the true “sentire cuм ecclesia,” and there is the danger of an ecclesial autocephaly and to be the last judicial instance in the Church. However, to my knowledge, the healthier part corresponds to the major part of the SSPX and I consider their General Superior, His Excellency Monsignor Bernard Fellay, as an exemplarily and true Catholic bishop. There is some hope for a canonical recognition of the SPPX."