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Author Topic: No Leonine Prayers at Sanford Florida Priory Masses  (Read 4647 times)

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Offline ermylaw

Re: No Leonine Prayers at Sanford Florida Priory Masses
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2018, 12:47:59 PM »
Quote from: Last Tradhican on June 07, 2018, 12:24:57 PM
So, the Leonine prayers can eliminated as a practice for 6 months out of the year during hurricane season?

How about on Sunday, when neither the Leonine prayers nor the weather Blessing were said.

I don't know about Sunday. In your original post, you said that the weather blessing was said after the mass on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. So were the Leonine Prayers and the weather blessing both omitted after a Sunday low mass?

Here's Fortescue on this question:

These Leonine prayers may be omitted after Low Masses which take the place of a solemn Mass, e.g., a conventual or capitular Mass; or which are celebrated with a certain solemnity, e.g., Mass for a first Holy Communion, for a general communion, for a marriage, for Confirmation, or an ordination or religious profession. They may also be omitted if any sacred function or pious exercise (e.g., Benediction, absolution for the dead) immediately and duly follows Mass, or when a homily has been given during Mass, also after a dialogue Mass, but on Sundays and greater feasts only.
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Offline AlligatorDicax

Irma/Re: No Leonine Prayers at Sanford Florida Priory Masses
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2018, 01:58:24 PM »
Quote from: Last Tradhican on June 05, 2018, 07:53:49 AM

I remember that priory got hit by a hurricane last year, maybe it was because they are not doing the Leonine Prayers?

Uh, huh.  For 2017, that's "hit by a hurricane" only in a manner of speaking.

The on-coming Hurricane Irma did indeed look quite grim for Floridans, including in Central Florida: It had been forecast to roar up the center of the Florida Peninsula as a major hurricane (i.e., category-3 or worse).

Quote from: poche on June 06, 2018, 02:34:44 AM

do you think that the weather prayer will protect the priory?

Aha!  The A.I. experiment that afflicts CathInfo via platitudes has now joined in with a nonresponse reminiscent of the ground-breaking "Eliza" Turing-Test computer program [*].

Have you no opinion of your own about such a surprising outcome?   Or do your handlers simply refuse to allow you to express it?

So I offer the attached radar-mosaic image of Irma, from the U.S. National Weather Service.  It shows that forecast major hurricane unexpectedly & unusually fizzling out to a mere tropical storm soon after nightfall on Sep. 10--a Sunday (ahem!).  Irma permanently lost the southern half of its eye-wall, soon after its intact eye arrived on the S.W. coast of Florida.  At which time 4 or 5 counties separated it from the SSPX priory in Sanford, near the north boundary of Seminole Co. [@].  Very much unlike major Hurricanes Donna (1960) and Charley (2004), which arrived along comparable paths, and sure didn't fizzle; they remained powerful hurricanes while churning more-or-less N.E.-ward thro' the Peninsula, creating memorable natural disasters.  And attained the distinction of officially getting their names permanently retired.

It's worth noting that the SSPX priory in Sanford is not the only chapel or church in Florida that has a claim to providing the traditional Catholic Mass & sacraments.

-------
Note *: Also known by the bland name "Doctor", the original version of the program was written by Joseph Weizenbaum of MIT at its A.I. Lab, way back in the mid-1960s.

Note @: From landfall N'ward, Florida counties in the order of the forecast path: (maybe Collier,) Charlotte, DeSoto, Hardee, Polk, Orange, Seminole.  Only 1 county chosen for each line-segment of the forecast path, i.e., each county listed was the 1 closest to enclosing an entire line-segment; none are side-by-side west-to-east.
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Offline Last Tradhican

Re: No Leonine Prayers at Sanford Florida Priory Masses
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2018, 01:59:00 PM »
Quote from: ermylaw on June 07, 2018, 12:47:59 PM
I don't know about Sunday. In your original post, you said that the weather blessing was said after the mass on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. So were the Leonine Prayers and the weather blessing both omitted after a Sunday low mass?

Here's Fortescue on this question:

These Leonine prayers may be omitted after Low Masses which take the place of a solemn Mass, e.g., a conventual or capitular Mass; or which are celebrated with a certain solemnity, e.g., Mass for a first Holy Communion, for a general communion, for a marriage, for Confirmation, or an ordination or religious profession. They may also be omitted if any sacred function or pious exercise (e.g., Benediction, absolution for the dead) immediately and duly follows Mass, or when a homily has been given during Mass, also after a dialogue Mass, but on Sundays and greater feasts only.
The Leonine prayers were omitted on Sunday. There was no weather blessing on Sunday.

According to the quote by Fortescue the Leonine prayers could be omitted for a pious function, but a weather blessing replacing the Leonine prayers for 6 months out of the year is not "a religious function". Moreover, it says the Leonine prayers may be omitted after a Dialogue Mass, which is very odd since Fortescue died before the Dialogue mass existed. Additionally, there are customs in each country, and what Fortescue suggests (If it really is him who said it) may not have been the practice in the USA.
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Offline ermylaw

Re: No Leonine Prayers at Sanford Florida Priory Masses
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2018, 02:05:59 PM »
I got the text I copied from The Ceremonies of the Roman Rite Described. This is from the 15th Ed. and has been revised post-Summorum PontificuŠ¼. The portion that I quoted likely underwent a revision in 1959, when there was such a thing as a dialogue mass.

So, I think we're left to question why the priest omitted the Leonine prayers at the Sunday low mass where there was no weather blessing. Perhaps he forgot to include them since, it would seem, he'd excluded them the previous two days because of the weather blessing. It might very well be that there is an innocent or even proper explanation why they were omitted. Absent contrary information, it would seem the safest course to assume there is such a legitimate explanation.
 
And that is mostly my point -- there are quite a few little rules that govern the liturgy that we don't necessarily know. I was only aware that the Leonine prayers were omitted when there is some other blessing or liturgical action because I looked it up after I noticed their omission. It turned out there was a good reason and, in fact, their omission was dictated by the rubrics.
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Offline Last Tradhican

Re: No Leonine Prayers at Sanford Florida Priory Masses
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2018, 03:05:23 PM »
Quote from: ermylaw on June 07, 2018, 02:05:59 PM
I got the text I copied from The Ceremonies of the Roman Rite Described. This is from the 15th Ed. and has been revised post-Summorum PontificuŠ¼. The portion that I quoted likely underwent a revision in 1959, when there was such a thing as a dialogue mass. (Well, there you go. That glaring addition makes the revision suspect)

So, I think we're left to question why the priest omitted the Leonine prayers at the Sunday low mass where there was no weather blessing. Perhaps he forgot to include them since, it would seem, he'd excluded them the previous two days because of the weather blessing. It might very well be that there is an innocent or even proper explanation why they were omitted. Absent contrary information, it would seem the safest course to assume there is such a legitimate explanation. (The Fortescue quote says it can be omitted on Sundays if there is a sermon, but again, it may also be part of the revision. Besides, it is not the custom in the USA, all the Low Masses I have gone to did not omit the Leonine Prayers.)
 
And that is mostly my point -- there are quite a few little rules that govern the liturgy that we don't necessarily know. (This is the excuse the priests used in the early 60's till present to change everything. I go by what was always done, the customs of my country. As soon as there is a change, I jump. )  I was only aware that the Leonine prayers were omitted when there is some other blessing or liturgical action because I looked it up after I noticed their omission. It turned out there was a good reason and, in fact, their omission was dictated by the rubrics. (the "rubrics" you quoted are from the time that all the changes took place, not reliable. Besides, there are different customs in every region.)
My responses in red.
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