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Author Topic: No Catholic Can Compromise: Fr. Girouard on the Danger of the Novus Ordo  (Read 3535 times)

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Offline ArmandLouis

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“No Catholic worthy of the name can accept to go along with such a plan. We cannot say that we are Catholic, and that we love Our Saviour, His mother, and the saints, if we accept to negotiate with those who are contributing, by their actions or by their silence, to the damnation of countless souls for which Our Lord gave His life. For example, how can we even accept to deal and talk with people who promote the Novus Ordo Missae? How can we not see with a deep horror that this Mass is an abomination to God?”

—Father Patrick Girouard

[Taken From Father Girouards Mission Statement of 
June 2nd, 2013]
Vive les bons prêtres !

Offline gdemetrios2026

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You cannot say the Vatican II Church is the True Church, Mr. Prevost is the True Pope and yet in the same breathe say the Novus Ordo is dangerous and blasphemous. If you believe the Vatican II Church is the Catholic Church, and Prevost is the Pope, resisting a legitimate pope is obviously out of the question. Resistance would place one in schism and on the road to hell. However, if the Vatican II Church is not the Catholic Church, and Prevost is an Apostate Antipope, then and only then you can say the Novus Ordo is blasphemous. 

The SSPX and the Resistance have done many good things, however both wings exhibit the double mindedness of Archbishop Lefebvre. One day, he would call Karl Wojtyla an Antichrist, and five minutes later, he would kiss his "papal" ring and have an audience with him in the Vatican. Sedevacantism is the only solution to the crisis on a purely logical level, despite its own issues. Playing theological mental gymnastics while at the same time being schismatic from the sect you claim is the true church, is not something people want to do. 


Offline Ladislaus

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You cannot say the Vatican II Church is the True Church, Mr. Prevost is the True Pope and yet in the same breathe say the Novus Ordo is dangerous and blasphemous. If you believe the Vatican II Church is the Catholic Church, and Prevost is the Pope, resisting a legitimate pope is obviously out of the question. 

Agreed.  Nevertheless, I do believe Father Cekada did a grave disservice to Archbishop Lefebvre in mis-characterizing the latter's position as "Recognize & Resist", "R&R".

+Lefebvre and the early SSPX were more of the "Doubt & Resist" position.  Apart from a time in the early 1980s, before and after, there were simply degrees of certainty or uncertainty regarding the Conciliar papal claimants, and even Fr. Schmidberger characterized their attitude with the Latin expression "melior est conditio possidentis", which means that we give them the "benefit of the doubt".

+Lefebvre did not doubt, explicitly affirmed, that a legitimate Pope is protected by the Holy Ghost from imposing these evils on the Church, which is the MAJOR premise of the SV position, but was in doubt about some of the MINOR premises that the SVs who push toward a false dichotomy never mention or hide or ignore.  You can doubt a conclusion by doubting ANY of its premises, without necessarily having to reject the MAJOR.  That's what +Lefebvre did.

Normally, most theologians hold that the legitimacy of a given Pope is dogmatic fact, but +Lefebvre, +Williamson, and +Tissier have all expressed at certain times varying degrees of uncertainty that they are legitimate, vs. whether the See might be empty ... doubts which preclude dogmatic certainty, and leading to a "papa dubius" situation.

Then, amidst that uncertainty, who can be faulted for then adopting the attitude of "if they command something that's not contrary to the faith, we will obey, just in case we're wrong about their non-papacy ... since it would do no harm, right?"

That's really the position of +Lefebvre, again, except for during the early 1980s.

Unfortunately, the Archbishop didn't emphasize this enough, so that his legacy does include many modern true "R&R" who dogmatically affirm the legitimacy of the Conciliar papal claimants, and who therefore end up actually denying that MAJOR premise that the Holy Ghost protects the Church and the Papacy.

Offline Catholic Knight

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Agreed.  Nevertheless, I do believe Father Cekada did a grave disservice to Archbishop Lefebvre in mis-characterizing the latter's position as "Recognize & Resist", "R&R".

+Lefebvre and the early SSPX were more of the "Doubt & Resist" position.  Apart from a time in the early 1980s, before and after, there were simply degrees of certainty or uncertainty regarding the Conciliar papal claimants, and even Fr. Schmidberger characterized their attitude with the Latin expression "melior est conditio possidentis", which means that we give them the "benefit of the doubt".

+Lefebvre did not doubt, explicitly affirmed, that a legitimate Pope is protected by the Holy Ghost from imposing these evils on the Church, which is the MAJOR premise of the SV position, but was in doubt about some of the MINOR premises that the SVs who push toward a false dichotomy never mention or hide or ignore.  You can doubt a conclusion by doubting ANY of its premises, without necessarily having to reject the MAJOR.  That's what +Lefebvre did.

Normally, most theologians hold that the legitimacy of a given Pope is dogmatic fact, but +Lefebvre, +Williamson, and +Tissier have all expressed at certain times varying degrees of uncertainty that they are legitimate, vs. whether the See might be empty ... doubts which preclude dogmatic certainty, and leading to a "papa dubius" situation.

Then, amidst that uncertainty, who can be faulted for then adopting the attitude of "if they command something that's not contrary to the faith, we will obey, just in case we're wrong about their non-papacy ... since it would do no harm, right?"

That's really the position of +Lefebvre, again, except for during the early 1980s.

Unfortunately, the Archbishop didn't emphasize this enough, so that his legacy does include many modern true "R&R" who dogmatically affirm the legitimacy of the Conciliar papal claimants, and who therefore end up actually denying that MAJOR premise that the Holy Ghost protects the Church and the Papacy.

But a papa dubius situation permits one (perhaps even obliges one) to not obey.

Offline songbird

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Holy Ghost works through those who have Sanctifying Grace.  Vatican I states, the Office of the Holy Ghost works, "might" the Pope ask the Holy Ghost of His 7 Gifts.  That is how that works.  Cardinal Edward Manning.  Internal Mission of the Holy Ghost