Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: Centroamerica on February 18, 2014, 07:12:26 PM
-
For the record, I have been voicing my criticisms evenly.
Moderator note: Later in the thread, a member posted this:
This mass was held in Linamon, Lanao Del Norte, Mindanao, Philippines. This is the first mass ever made by Fr. Chazal in this province, and definitely the first time he has ever step foot in this place. The people in the countryside has no knowledge or very very little knowledge about traditional mass. And I can say that it would have been the reason why that lady did not know how to dress up properly because they are used to going to the novus ordo mass wearing these kinds of clothing. And for the record the chapel is not owned by SSPX. Please stop judging Fr. Chazal because all he is trying to do is make as much missions as he can to save souls! This is so much effort and even a scary mission because this is a muslim area where muslims get mad of Catholic missions..they would either kidnap a priest or worse kill one. So please don't make harsh or irrational judgements when you don't have the exact idea of what the scenario is. Thank you and may God bless us all.
-
:confused1:
What? Where? When? Who? W H Y bother with the doily thingy on the head? Last spring, a woman similarly unclad sat in front of me in a US SSPX chapel. Her dress was borderline acceptable in front, but nonexistent below the waist in back. She, too, wore a black bra with straps and back closure showing. She, too, went to Communion. Must a priest give such a person Communion? I'm sure he did not WANT to, but unless the person fits the definition of "notorious public sinner," the priest has no choice. To me, anyone who appears at a public Mass immodestly clothed announces her public sinner status to the world without saying a word. This poor woman needs our prayers. She is either very ignorant or has serious hatred for Jesus Christ.
Sorry, too serious a matter for a dancing banana.
-
Philippines
-
:facepalm:
A return of worldwide modesty and female decorum is a must in the restoration of Our Church!
-
.
I don't doubt the authenticity of the photo. I fear these kinds of things might be going on in the Philippines. Nor do I doubt the integrity of Fr. Chazal's actions. It certainly does not LOOK right, and I believe Fr. Chazal should find a way to inform the woman, somehow.
But at the same time, I do not question his wisdom in knowing HOW to go about informing her, so as to not CHASE HER AWAY. In these days, that is a real issue to consider.
This could be seen as a reason that Fr. Pfeiffer is in the USA and Ireland and South America while Fr. Chazal is in Asia.
And furthermore, we can't really know the objective or motivation of the photographer here. While it might immediately seem he was seeking a shot to docuмent inappropriate dress, how do we know he wasn't looking for an ad page theme to advertise the sale of lace?
What is here to assure us that he was not hoping to attract more attendance at the chapel by promoting a campaign of "Come See How Far We've Come!?
Fr. Pfeiffer has already groaned out loud at the highly ODD practice of certain Catholics quickly jetting from one shrine to another only to stand in front of each in turn for a photo op! They can get their picture in front of Our Lady of Guadalupe, the Shrine to St. Rose of Lima, the Eucharistic miracle of Lanciano, the tomb of the incorrupt body of St. Francis Xavier, and the incorrupt tongue of St. Anthony of Padua, then after they're all framed and hanging on the wall, the guy in the pictures can go out and commit more mortal sins, die, and go to hell. He said so in context of the Philippines' supertyphoon that recently sent 50,000 (fifty-thousand) souls to their death, which he said was God's retribution for the sins of the Philippines. He explained this in the context of meeting an older priest who offers the TLM, but not because he likes it. He actually hates the old Mass and he hates Latin, but since there are people asking him to offer it, he does. Then in this priest's home, when Fr. P. asked him who the children are, pictured in the framed photos hanging on the wall, he replied, "Oh, these are my children ... in my heyday I had 30 mistresses." There is a severe social degeneracy in the Philppines, and therefore Fr. Chazal has a proverbial UPHILL BATTLE to wage war against. But this is his element. He is a FIGHTER for the Faith.
.
-
A benefactress of Fr. Chazal? Slim chance! Fr. doesn't look happy. I think he had no choice. Is this XSPX or after Fr. Chazal was expelled? It IS Fr. Chazal.
If you think this bad, (It is!), you should see how people dress--or don't!--in S. Korea! As recently as 8-10 years ago, the attire was comparatively modest. Now, people of all ages and both genders dress much worse than in Europe or the U.S. The Philippines are about the same. I wish there was a picture of the women NOT going to Communion. Then again, maybe there is a picture but it is too raunchy to post!
-
Folks dressed in such a manner should never even make it to the altar rail, they should be ordered from the house as soon as they enter. The proper standards in relation to Our Lord's house and His Divine presence upon the altar are simply not enforced by the men whose duty it is to do so.
-
The photo is as recent as within this month and was taken from a social media group where there are about 50 more photos from the same Mass proving it is not an edit as some will jump to claim. Ironically, the person taking the photos did not see anything wrong with this photo either. This is an absolute lack of leadership on the part of Fr. Chazal.
To be extremely critical of everything the SSPX priests do and choose to ignore this or not voice criticism shows the cult like attitude that some have developed. It is a must that we criticize each and every priest or superior when we see something wrong, not just look to the side when it is some and jump to vehemently criticizing others. That is not Catholic.
Fr. Chazal has lost any support from me that I would have ever had.
-
Absolute lack of leadership!!!!
-
This is an absolute lack of leadership on the part of Fr. Chazal.
And this is an absolute lack of melodramatic self-control on your part.
-
So they are still your heroes eh Frances?
I have always said that the resistance survives on the strength of a personality cult of its priests and +Williamson. Despite theological flaws in its doctrine it is supported because you get this warm feeling from their priests. Thats what it is, a feeling. But the faith is based on the intellect.
Between this hypocrisy from Fr Chazal and the spreading of serious rumors by Fr Pfeiffer, not to mention his feigned cowboy attitude, and also the endless hype of the resistance on this forum by some, especially you, heaping unjustified praise on these men, I am not persuaded to support the resistance. I am still waiting for proof that the SSPX will begin to say the new mass.
-
This is an absolute lack of leadership on the part of Fr. Chazal.
And this is an absolute lack of melodramatic self-control on your part.
Why? Because there are some priests which me must criticize every move they make and others which are completely immune from any criticism from anyone?
If it were a current SSPX priest would it no longer classify as "lack of self-control" to say that he is causing a public scandal or some of the worse things that have been said in this forum.
If you live in a glass house you shouldn't throw those stones.
-
So they are still your heroes eh Frances?
I have always said that the resistance survives on the strength of a personality cult of its priests and +Williamson. Despite theological flaws in its doctrine it is supported because you get this warm feeling from their priests. Thats what it is, a feeling. But the faith is based on the intellect.
Between this hypocrisy from Fr Chazal and the spreading of serious rumors by Fr Pfeiffer, not to mention his feigned cowboy attitude, and also the endless hype of the resistance on this forum by some, especially you, heaping unjustified praise on these men, I am not persuaded to support the resistance. I am still waiting for proof that the SSPX will begin to say the new mass.
Thanks soulguard. It's good to know there are still people with common sense that can think for themselves.
-
Fr. Chazal has lost any support from me that I would have ever had.
Your kneejerk reaction shows that you never liked him or supported him.
Your actions are not those of a noble man.
-
So they are still your heroes eh Frances?
I have always said that the resistance survives on the strength of a personality cult of its priests and +Williamson. Despite theological flaws in its doctrine it is supported because you get this warm feeling from their priests. Thats what it is, a feeling. But the faith is based on the intellect.
Between this hypocrisy from Fr Chazal and the spreading of serious rumors by Fr Pfeiffer, not to mention his feigned cowboy attitude, and also the endless hype of the resistance on this forum by some, especially you, heaping unjustified praise on these men, I am not persuaded to support the resistance. I am still waiting for proof that the SSPX will begin to say the new mass.
Thanks soulguard. It's good to know there are still people with common sense that can think for themselves.
The critique of Frances and the personal opinions regarding His Lordship are mere opinion.
How is Fr Chazal being hypocritical and what are the 'serious rumors' being spread by Fr Pfeiffer.
What is the 'hype of the resistance'?
-
Fr. Chazal has lost any support from me that I would have ever had.
Your kneejerk reaction shows that you never liked him or supported him.
Your actions are not those of a noble man.
Great comment.
-
Fr. Chazal has lost any support from me that I would have ever had.
Your kneejerk reaction shows that you never liked him or supported him.
Your actions are not those of a noble man.
I suppose the noble thing to do would be to continue to slander indefinitely the SSPX priests as all communists, murderers or sodomites as has been happening in this forum? Right!
I do attend a resistance Mass regularly Bowler, and there is a note posted that we will not even allow anyone into the chapel dressed like that. She would never make it through the front gate I promise. I have vocally and publicly shown support for Fr. Chazal, so while you pretend to know personal events and things which you do not, and grow defensive when a priest whom you believe should be immune from criticisms is exposed for being the weak leader he is, I'll be continuing to criticize any leader or clergy who is letting us down, while you selectively criticize whoever you decide to just like you have been programmed to do.
-
Fr. Chazal has lost any support from me that I would have ever had.
Your kneejerk reaction shows that you never liked him or supported him.
Your actions are not those of a noble man.
Great comment.
And the cult attitude is beginning to crawl out of its rock and manifest itself.
Remember that John was a recent Novus Ordo convert so if he doesn't quite yet understand morality and how a women should dress when receiving Holy Communion it is probably do to his lack of formation.
-
Folks dressed in such a manner should never even make it to the altar rail, they should be ordered from the house as soon as they enter. The proper standards in relation to Our Lord's house and His Divine presence upon the altar are simply not enforced by the men whose duty it is to do so.
Even at Saint Michael's, I had this complaint. I doubt it's been corrected since the SSPX has been there, either.
Father Bolduc talked about this issue over and over and over, and people weren't listening. Towards the end there, I could understand that there wasn't anymore he could do, but it's still happening now with the SSPX there.
-
Folks dressed in such a manner should never even make it to the altar rail, they should be ordered from the house as soon as they enter. The proper standards in relation to Our Lord's house and His Divine presence upon the altar are simply not enforced by the men whose duty it is to do so.
Even at Saint Michael's, I had this complaint. I doubt it's been corrected since the SSPX has been there, either.
Father Bolduc talked about this issue over and over and over, and people weren't listening. Towards the end there, I could understand that there wasn't anymore he could do, but it's still happening now with the SSPX there.
The solution is simple. In St. Paul, Minnesota they would be denied Holy Communion and the sermon would've had a special added part about morality and the limits. Also there is a sign in the entrance of the church stating the requirements for dressing and receiving Holy Communion.
In the resistance chapel I currently attend we have the same sign stating the dress code. Because this chapel is on someone's personal property, the owners would never NEVER allow someone to enter the property dressed like that.
-
Fr. Chazal has lost any support from me that I would have ever had.
Your kneejerk reaction shows that you never liked him or supported him.
Your actions are not those of a noble man.
Great comment.
And the cult attitude is beginning to crawl out of its rock and manifest itself.
Remember that John was a recent Novus Ordo convert so if he doesn't quite yet understand morality and how a women should dress when receiving Holy Communion it is probably do to his lack of formation.
No cult here my friend, just an honest assessment of your ignoble attitude.
I am classified as a "Feeneyite" by the Old and New SSPX, and I criticize even Abp. Lefebvre for teaching that anyone can be saved in any religion. so, your analysis in my case is wrong.
I criticize error, I do not drop my support at the first sign of disagreement like you did here:
Fr. Chazal has lost any support from me that I would have ever had
-
Fr. Chazal has lost any support from me that I would have ever had.
Your kneejerk reaction shows that you never liked him or supported him.
Your actions are not those of a noble man.
Great comment.
And the cult attitude is beginning to crawl out of its rock and manifest itself.
Remember that John was a recent Novus Ordo convert so if he doesn't quite yet understand morality and how a women should dress when receiving Holy Communion it is probably do to his lack of formation.
No cult here my friend, just an honest assessment of your ignoble attitude.
I am classified as a "Feeneyite" by the Old and New SSPX, and I criticize even Abp. Lefebvre for teaching that anyone can be saved in any religion. so, your analysis in my case is wrong.
I criticize error, I do not drop my support at the first sign of disagreement like you did here:
Fr. Chazal has lost any support from me that I would have ever had
Since when is basic moral conduct a simple "sign of disagreement".
Will he also give her communion is she is standing or holding out her hand? These are the comments that would've been written had he been a SSPX priest. Instead he receives an "immunity from criticism card" and I am the one being criticized. What a joke and obvious display of hypocrisy. You cannot defend the indefensible so you resort to attacking me. Never mind that people are receiving communion exposing half their upper body skin.
And not suddenly I am being ignoble, but mind you be we must criticize all those "communists" SSPX priests on every thread. What a confused person you are, working backwards to destroy public decency in the name of the faith.
Reprobate.
-
Whenever I tried saying something to someone that was dressed immodestly, and I would ALWAYS do so in a charitable way, I would be lambasted by other female parishioners for even making a comment. "Oh they're new here," or "Let their parents handle it," or "Let Father handle it."
:really-mad2:
OBVIOUSLY THAT IS NOT WORKING.
Many of the "new people" wear slacks or something, they're not dressed like tramps to church. If they are new, most of them are some girlfriend one of the longtime parishioners is bringing (dragging) in, and THEY SHOULD KNOW BETTER. It's not like they just randomly showed up, and didn't know not to dress trampy to church!
The "Let their parents handle it," OBVIOUSLY is not working, because many times, their parents, who have been coming there for many years, brought them to church in those clothes. Sometimes, public shame is the best medicine, because it's obviously not getting through by authorities telling them to do the right thing (parents, the priest, relatives, et cetera.)
The "Let Father handle it" argument also failed. Father Bolduc covered these issues so many times it was like a broken record, and it wasn't getting through their thick skulls. I went to him numerous times, and he knew and it made him really sad that people would dress like that. I remember the last time I spoke with him about it. I had asked if he thought of getting the Holy Name Society involved, turning people improperly dressed out of the Church to go change, or directing them to the basement where there are some modest clothes for people that don't have something appropriate to wear. He said that was being discussed. Then I just left it alone, but THAT I think is the best solution.
Now that I think about it, it was probably good that I said something so they properly understood why people were giving them cold glares during Mass. Maybe they resented me "insulting" them, but they were insulting Our Lord by showing up that way, not only causing scandal to the other young ladies around them, but also causing other men that don't have proper custody of the eyes (which SHOULD NOT be a problem in CHURCH of all places) to commit sins in their minds.
-
:dancing-banana:
If not saying the new mass is your measuring stick, then why bother with CI which bills itself as supporting the Resistance? If the Latin Mass is sufficient, why not go to the "extraordinary" Mass or to FSSP?
The issue is the doctrine driving the faith as taught and practiced, not the personalities of Fr. Pfeiffer or Bishop Williamson! ( The two men are very different, by the way. ) If you like neither, try Fr. Hewko. He's much more reserved and not prone to acting on impulse.
The personalities of Bishop Fellay or Fr. Pfluger are also irrelevant. SSPX priests come in all varieties, like anyone else. Some you like, some you don't.
I am accused of basing my faith on personalities? You accuse yourself of the same thing when you reject doctrine because you DISLIKE Fr. Pfeiffer. God uses whoever offers himself to His service, whether he be the quiet, reserved type, St. Thomas, the impulsive cowboy type, St. Peter, or even a woman when no man is found, St. Catherine, St. Joan of Arc. In the Old Testament, nobody was willing to rebuke Balaam, so God used an ass!
If God used a dumb ass, then he can use anyone willing to sacrifice himself. Balaam's ass did not cease to be an ass while rebuking the evil prophet. When He finished with her, she went right back to being an ass.
-
Fr. Chazal has lost any support from me that I would have ever had.
Your kneejerk reaction shows that you never liked him or supported him.
Your actions are not those of a noble man.
Great comment.
And the cult attitude is beginning to crawl out of its rock and manifest itself.
Remember that John was a recent Novus Ordo convert so if he doesn't quite yet understand morality and how a women should dress when receiving Holy Communion it is probably do to his lack of formation.
No cult here my friend, just an honest assessment of your ignoble attitude.
I am classified as a "Feeneyite" by the Old and New SSPX, and I criticize even Abp. Lefebvre for teaching that anyone can be saved in any religion. so, your analysis in my case is wrong.
I criticize error, I do not drop my support at the first sign of disagreement like you did here:
Fr. Chazal has lost any support from me that I would have ever had
Since when is basic moral conduct a simple "sign of disagreement".
Will he also give her communion is she is standing or holding out her hand? These are the comments that would've been written had he been a SSPX priest. Instead he receives an "immunity from criticism card" and I am the one being criticized. What a joke and obvious display of hypocrisy. You cannot defend the indefensible so you resort to attacking me. Never mind that people are receiving communion exposing half their upper body skin.
And not suddenly I am being ignoble, but mind you be we must criticize all those "communists" SSPX priests on every thread. What a confused person you are, working backwards to destroy public decency in the name of the faith.
Reprobate.
Centro, I agree with you.
I think every Resistance site should have a commanding presence there (not necessarily the priest, but some other MAN) to turn away people that are dressed improperly.
:soapbox:
-
Fr. Chazal has lost any support from me that I would have ever had.
Your kneejerk reaction shows that you never liked him or supported him.
Your actions are not those of a noble man.
Great comment.
And the cult attitude is beginning to crawl out of its rock and manifest itself.
Remember that John was a recent Novus Ordo convert so if he doesn't quite yet understand morality and how a women should dress when receiving Holy Communion it is probably do to his lack of formation.
No cult here my friend, just an honest assessment of your ignoble attitude.
I am classified as a "Feeneyite" by the Old and New SSPX, and I criticize even Abp. Lefebvre for teaching that anyone can be saved in any religion. so, your analysis in my case is wrong.
I criticize error, I do not drop my support at the first sign of disagreement like you did here:
Fr. Chazal has lost any support from me that I would have ever had
Since when is basic moral conduct a simple "sign of disagreement".
Will he also give her communion is she is standing or holding out her hand? These are the comments that would've been written had he been a SSPX priest. Instead he receives an "immunity from criticism card" and I am the one being criticized. What a joke and obvious display of hypocrisy. You cannot defend the indefensible so you resort to attacking me. Never mind that people are receiving communion exposing half their upper body skin.
And not suddenly I am being ignoble, but mind you be we must criticize all those "communists" SSPX priests on every thread. What a confused person you are, working backwards to destroy public decency in the name of the faith.
Reprobate.
Centro, I agree with you.
I think every Resistance site should have a commanding presence there (not necessarily the priest, but some other MAN) to turn away people that are dressed improperly. :soapbox:
When in India, Fr Chazal handed out "interdicts" to two of the faithful. The Pfeiffers handed out one to someone else. A Diocesan priest helper of the Society said that never had he, in his fifty plus years as a priest, come across this sort of thing. But then, the might of the Society was behind them.
-
What were the interdicts for? Dressing immodestly?
-
What were the interdicts for? Dressing immodestly?
No. One was for posting comments deemed to be anti-SSPX on the internet, while the other was for telling on a woman who attended the SSPX Mass when her spouse forbade her to do so. He apparently took "drastic" action when he heard she had gone for Mass, so the informant was interdicted......
-
I would give Fr. Chazal the benefit of the doubt since I wasn't at that Mass. Those of you complaining, were you there? Do you know all the circuмstances surrounding it? Perhaps he had spoken to her and told her not to come dressed like that again but would not deny her communion since they have Mass infrequently.
If you're really so worried about Father's ability to function as a "leader" and a good priest I recommend you go and sit down with him, and over a cup of tea charitably discuss your concerns.
Pounding one's chest demanding the "right" to criticize any and all priests at any and all times is quite presumptive, particularly when done from the safety of another continent.
Why is it so hard to give a good priest the benefit of the doubt? I'm sure Father can deal with the situation w/o any input from those of us on CI.
Marsha
-
At my chapel, all of the regular women dress pretty modestly and cover their heads. But every once in a while some guest will show up in pants or with their head uncovered. The biggest problem we have with the women is that often their skirts go down to their knees instead of their ankles; as Padre Pio said the skirts should go down eight inches below the knee.
-
You bunch of hypocrites! What is worse, a soul that is poor in virtue, or a soul that is proud with critique?
Our Lord accepted many of souls that were troubled and uneducated; only to draw them to Himself. Mary Magdalene was clothed in adultery in her mind; Our Lord forgave her. The Samaritan woman at the well was uneducated and drank at the Fountain of Truth.
If our Lord was here now, what would he call you hypocrites when you go to the communion rail, proud and tarnished with evil thoughts? What did our Lord say to the Pharisee in the Temple and then to the publican who stood far off with shame and humility; who was justified?
This woman that you cast stones on, is it possible that she came back to the Church for the first time in this disorientated society and confessed her sins just prior to this picture; and now knows the proper etiquettes before the Blessed Sacrament that the priest instructed her; which she desires to come back clothed with the garments of grace and virtue? Or will she encounter you carnal hypocrites at the door and be scared to come back by your uncharitable remarks?
A picture also conveys positive thoughts towards other souls; and to pray for one another; not to just stop at the material. If you people went to Africa, or other poverty stricken countries, and continued to see through your carnal visions, you would be even more "scandalized" at their "attire"; but God looks into the soul, sees good will, and the image and likeness of His Son.
Have prudence dear people. God is the provider and Redeemer of all souls; not your rash judgments.
-
You bunch of hypocrites! What is worse, a soul that is poor in virtue, or a soul that is proud with critique?
Is it ever okay to say someone is sinning or must we accept all kinds of sins and never open our mouths to avoid being hypocrites?
-
You bunch of hypocrites! What is worse, a soul that is poor in virtue, or a soul that is proud with critique?
Is it ever okay to say someone is sinning or must we accept all kinds of sins and never open our mouths to avoid being hypocrites?
In reading the last several posts in this thread...
It appears that cultivating humility first would imitate Our Lord when walking into a situation where context gives open to a person simply not knowing better. Grant it, one would really have to be tuned in to sense an evil perpetrator. However, in this case, suspending judgment and being a simple observer until there's an action that gives you a definitive red flag would allow you to access humility and charity towards that person. Whose to say, that this person may be a future saint, whose life on earth will be looked at as someone who took a stand for Christ till death...if given a chance...and you might just be that person who will influence forever, their path in life. For me, challenging myself to approach that person to admonish (if the situation demands it) rather than coward avoidance really helps me to be present in the moment (because the pressure is on to act). Always combine with a short inward prayer to get God involved and to be protected from any possible or potential negative seduction, misdirection, and indirection.
-
So then the only priests we are allowed to criticize (some in this forum even spread rumors of them becoming murderous sodomites and bowler's last thread unanimously called them communists), the only ones we can ever criticize and not be criticized ourselves are the SSPX priests right?
That's not Catholic, that's a diabolical cult.
-
So then the only priests we are allowed to criticize are the SSPX priests right?
No. To me, I see apparent unorthodox everwhere: whether it be RR SSPX/ regular SSPX...CMRI; take your pick. And in this spirit, I truly sympathize with you. These are crazy times.
The problem for me is: where am I going to go to have a valid confession/ reception of the Eucharist??? Unfortunately, many of these same priests that we are criticizing are the best of the 'bunch.'
Especially with my beliefs (& how I look at things), which are the more unpopular on this forum board (lol); and this is a trad forum!
If you have a solution to accessing valid sacraments + less scandalous priests; I'm all ears...
-
I think the vitriolic language being used on this thread against one good priest and one complete stranger is totally uncalled for. Look to your own behavior before complaining about someone else.
Marsha
-
I think the vitriolic language being used on this thread against one good priest and one complete stranger is totally uncalled for. Look to your own behavior before complaining about someone else
Good early morning/evening Marlelar,
I looked back at my posts and didn't say anything specific against the priest/ or lay person in question??? I think you're barking up the wrong tree.
I know myself to be confident and unfortunately arrogant at times in where I stand and what I believe in on the core issues. For the most part, I have no desire in 'condemning' others here for I find it a waste of time and energy to engage in uncharitable words in never ending debate.
-
The woman was most likely new. After a few Masses she will catch on to the modest clothing norm. Should she have been booted out and publicly humiliated for trying to attend Mass? She was obviously trying to look 'nice' for church- she just has to become informed of what is appropriate. Either someone will give her a heads-up, or she will notice quickly on her own. Women are especially sensitive to fashion faux-pas. Why risk squashing a fragile soul when it is not yet necessary?
Someone asked about the "doily" on her head. I think it was a chapel-cap. They used to be very common pre-V2. I have one myself.
There was also a picture of a boy with a veil on his head. He was just playing around for a moment. I guess no kids have ever gotten bored and horsed around at Mass before? Let's lynch him!
It seems to me that someone has an ax to grind with the resistance or with Fr Chazal in particular, and posted these in an attempt to make a mountain out of a molehill. Just sayin'...
-
This mass was held in Linamon, Lanao Del Norte, Mindanao, Philippines. This is the first mass ever made by Fr. Chazal in this province, and definitely the first time he has ever step foot in this place. The people in the countryside has no knowledge or very very little knowledge about traditional mass. And I can say that it would have been the reason why that lady did not know how to dress up properly because they are used to going to the novus ordo mass wearing these kinds of clothing. And for the record the chapel is not owned by SSPX. Please stop judging Fr. Chazal because all he is trying to do is make as much missions as he can to save souls! This is so much effort and even a scary mission because this is a muslim area where muslims get mad of Catholic missions..they would either kidnap a priest or worse kill one. So please don't make harsh or irrational judgements when you don't have the exact idea of what the scenario is. Thank you and may God bless us all.
-
Fr. Chazal has lost any support from me that I would have ever had.
Your kneejerk reaction shows that you never liked him or supported him.
Your actions are not those of a noble man.
Great comment.
And the cult attitude is beginning to crawl out of its rock and manifest itself.
Remember that John was a recent Novus Ordo convert so if he doesn't quite yet understand morality and how a women should dress when receiving Holy Communion it is probably do to his lack of formation.
No cult here my friend, just an honest assessment of your ignoble attitude.
I am classified as a "Feeneyite" by the Old and New SSPX, and I criticize even Abp. Lefebvre for teaching that anyone can be saved in any religion. so, your analysis in my case is wrong.
I criticize error, I do not drop my support at the first sign of disagreement like you did here:
Fr. Chazal has lost any support from me that I would have ever had
Since when is basic moral conduct a simple "sign of disagreement".
Will he also give her communion is she is standing or holding out her hand? These are the comments that would've been written had he been a SSPX priest. Instead he receives an "immunity from criticism card" and I am the one being criticized. What a joke and obvious display of hypocrisy. You cannot defend the indefensible so you resort to attacking me. Never mind that people are receiving communion exposing half their upper body skin.
And not suddenly I am being ignoble, but mind you be we must criticize all those "communists" SSPX priests on every thread. What a confused person you are, working backwards to destroy public decency in the name of the faith.
Reprobate.
I criticized you for only this:
Bowler said: I criticize error, I do not drop my support at the first sign of disagreement like you did here:
Fr. Chazal has lost any support from me that I would have ever had
As far as the communist thread, I answered your STRAWMAN objection there.
Now you call me a reprobate. Again a kneejerk reaction from you. You need to learn to control your automatic hate/casting out of anyone that disagrees with you. Though, I've know many people like you in my life, and not a one ever changed or acknowledged their fault. Try to be the first.
-
This mass was held in Linamon, Lanao Del Norte, Mindanao, Philippines. This is the first mass ever made by Fr. Chazal in this province, and definitely the first time he has ever step foot in this place. The people in the countryside has no knowledge or very very little knowledge about traditional mass. And I can say that it would have been the reason why that lady did not know how to dress up properly because they are used to going to the novus ordo mass wearing these kinds of clothing. And for the record the chapel is not owned by SSPX. Please stop judging Fr. Chazal because all he is trying to do is make as much missions as he can to save souls! This is so much effort and even a scary mission because this is a muslim area where muslims get mad of Catholic missions..they would either kidnap a priest or worse kill one. So please don't make harsh or irrational judgements when you don't have the exact idea of what the scenario is. Thank you and may God bless us all.
Thanks MarcelJude. Those are the words of a balanced normal mind.
Like I said, people who automatically casted Fr. Chazal into the outer darkness, are showing that they never liked him. They are troubled people.
-
This mass was held in Linamon, Lanao Del Norte, Mindanao, Philippines. This is the first mass ever made by Fr. Chazal in this province, and definitely the first time he has ever step foot in this place. The people in the countryside has no knowledge or very very little knowledge about traditional mass. And I can say that it would have been the reason why that lady did not know how to dress up properly because they are used to going to the novus ordo mass wearing these kinds of clothing. And for the record the chapel is not owned by SSPX. Please stop judging Fr. Chazal because all he is trying to do is make as much missions as he can to save souls! This is so much effort and even a scary mission because this is a muslim area where muslims get mad of Catholic missions..they would either kidnap a priest or worse kill one. So please don't make harsh or irrational judgements when you don't have the exact idea of what the scenario is. Thank you and may God bless us all.
Thank you for the update, MarcelJude.
Unfortunately, some of us here are all-too-eager to cast the first stone. And rather than taking the matter up privately with Fr. Chazal (who, it should be understood, must answer to us, right?), some can't help but blast their interpretation of a few photos across cyberspace without any knowledge of the circuмstances.
"For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again." Mt. 7:2
-
Many thanks for the update, MarcelJude
-
Sorry...what's the big deal?
Fr. Chazal appears to be giving mass in an impoverished sanctuary for equally impoverished people...so, we are going to nitpick about the clothing of people who just survived a horrible typhoon and are barely surviving? Awesome.
The first time I went to mass, I had to bobby pin a Kleenex to my head and roll down the bottoms of my jean shorts, but I was sure as sunshine going to that mass, even if people were snotty and rude and condescending.
It's a sign of the times that we are so quick to condemn others. We're too jaded...
-
I would just like to point out that when a woman dresses immodestly for one day, she is likely to cause dozens of mortal sins by the men who see her dressed that way. I am a man, so I know that it is very difficult for a man to avoid sinning when women around him dress immodestly. So it is a big deal to dress immodestly, especially at Mass. I am not condemning her. Maybe she doesn't know better, but by dressing that way she is helping damn the souls of many of the men around her who see her dressed that way.
-
:dancing-banana:
Maybe she went home after that Mass, justified and forgiven, while those of us condemning her and Fr. Chazal on the internet log off in worse spiritual condition than before.
-
I would just like to point out that when a woman dresses immodestly for one day, she is likely to cause dozens of mortal sins by the men who see her dressed that way. I am a man, so I know that it is very difficult for a man to avoid sinning when women around him dress immodestly. So it is a big deal to dress immodestly, especially at Mass. I am not condemning her. Maybe she doesn't know better, but by dressing that way she is helping damn the souls of many of the men around her who see her dressed that way.
^^this^^
and with instruction, example and prayer, she and many others will come to this proper understanding, and why our priests must be firm in this instruction.
Mamachacha, you make a great point, but I respectfully disagree with the characterization of snotty and rude and condescending.
We are - or should be - truly scandalized by those who come to Mass dressed in a sinful manner. Being shocked and insulted by their dress is not being rude, snotty or condescending, it's honest embarrassment mixed with a sense of protection toward Our Savior who is present.
However, these poor creatures don't know any better, they've not been taught and need charitable guidance. I rejoice in their seeking out the TLM - a step in the right direction away from the world and toward Heaven.
-
For everyone judging this poor soul, let's step back & think: This is in the Philippines which is very muggy & hot. Look at the 'wall' of the church. It must be suffocating in that tiny chapel. That's the way women dress there & think nothing of it. She isn't dressing to be sensual, she's dressing to be cool. It's obviously a poor country that's just been thro a devastating typhoon. You know nothing about her living circuмstances. I simply can't imagine Our Lord turning her away just because she's not up to snuff by our standards. At least she's there - in church!! How many well dressed Catholics here never bother to even go to church? Yes, I think maybe some shawls need to be available to cover her in the future, with a gentle reminder.
At the church in Vegas, there's a supply of long skirts off the vestibule to cover some ladies that straggle in while in Sin City and have no decent apparel. So all you complainers, why not donate a supply of large shawls for the Philippines? Will you let us know what YOU are going to do to help correct a problem & how many shawls you're willing to donate? Until then - BE QUIET!!! I don't want to read this stuff.
-
For everyone judging this poor soul, let's step back & think: This is in the Philippines which is very muggy & hot. Look at the 'wall' of the church. It must be suffocating in that tiny chapel. That's the way women dress there & think nothing of it. She isn't dressing to be sensual, she's dressing to be cool. It's obviously a poor country that's just been thro a devastating typhoon. You know nothing about her living circuмstances. I simply can't imagine Our Lord turning her away just because she's not up to snuff by our standards. At least she's there - in church!! How many well dressed Catholics here never bother to even go to church? Yes, I think maybe some shawls need to be available to cover her in the future, with a gentle reminder.
At the church in Vegas, there's a supply of long skirts off the vestibule to cover some ladies that straggle in while in Sin City and have no decent apparel. So all you complainers, why not donate a supply of large shawls for the Philippines? Will you let us know what YOU are going to do to help correct a problem & how many shawls you're willing to donate? Until then - BE QUIET!!! I don't want to read this stuff.
Hot weather is not a reason for immodesty. Living in a third world country is not either. There is no reason why a Catholic woman would receive Our Lord in such fashion.
I don't judge this woman as an individual but the authorities of the Church, who should instruct the ignorant. I am sure that if this woman is good willed, with a little bit of "information" she would be more appropriately dressed the next time. Most likely she is not even aware of her immodesty, such are the times we live in. My problem is with the silence on the part of those in charge. This general silence and tolerance of error, instead of resolving the issue, makes it worse. These people must be instructed in good faith because they do not know any better. The poisonous modernist and liberal trend has engulfed us all. I think that is the reason of the general decline in modesty and behavior of Catholics in Church. If no one informs this woman of her inappropriateness, then she can't really change.
-
Cantarella, I agree with your second paragraph. But what I don't think you & others that are complaining realize, is that this woman honestly doesn't believe she's dressing immodestly. She's simply dressing to be comfortable in excessive heat & humidity. I don't think she ever gave it a second thought. I do not believe she has evil intentions. A priest can't be expected to counsel her when she walks in when he's busy getting ready for Mass.
Perhaps you are judging her by women here in this country that dress like that for pure evil intentions. Christ sees the heart. We do not. Unfortunately all we see are bra straps.
-
This mass was held in Linamon, Lanao Del Norte, Mindanao, Philippines. This is the first mass ever made by Fr. Chazal in this province, and definitely the first time he has ever step foot in this place. The people in the countryside has no knowledge or very very little knowledge about traditional mass. And I can say that it would have been the reason why that lady did not know how to dress up properly because they are used to going to the novus ordo mass wearing these kinds of clothing. And for the record the chapel is not owned by SSPX. Please stop judging Fr. Chazal because all he is trying to do is make as much missions as he can to save souls! This is so much effort and even a scary mission because this is a muslim area where muslims get mad of Catholic missions..they would either kidnap a priest or worse kill one. So please don't make harsh or irrational judgements when you don't have the exact idea of what the scenario is. Thank you and may God bless us all.
Thanks for this info. Looking at the confessional in the chapel, which seems to be unpolished, I assumed it was Batangas where there must be ongoing works. Again, whatever the style of the clothes the lady wore, they seemed to me to be expensive enough to think that she may have been a wealthy woman - a "benefactress" to the cause. I was wrong in both cases.
Fr Albert Ghela sspx, has worked in India for some time. I believe he is a native of this part of the country which is Muslim dominated. He did speak briefly to me about it.
-
Cantarella, I agree with your second paragraph. But what I don't think you & others that are complaining realize, is that this woman honestly doesn't believe she's dressing immodestly. She's simply dressing to be comfortable in excessive heat & humidity. I don't think she ever gave it a second thought. I do not believe she has evil intentions. A priest can't be expected to counsel her when she walks in when he's busy getting ready for Mass.
Perhaps you are judging her by women here in this country that dress like that for pure evil intentions. Christ sees the heart. We do not. Unfortunately all we see are bra straps.
How did the men at Mass dress on account of the heat? In shorts and sleeveless vests and wearing rubber slippers? This is a Muslim area of the Philippines, and I'm sure, like the rest of Asia, heat or no heat, many of the Muslim women wear a burka over their clothes. The Christians in the Philippines are Westernized and the Church in the past has issued guidelines about immodest Western style dress.
-
:dancing-banana:Check the link for more photos. The men wear shorts, t-shirts, flip flops.
-
:dancing-banana:Check the link for more photos. The men wear shorts, t-shirts, flip flops.
When criticism was launched against The Flying Squirrel, the India newsletter of the SSPX, I heard an SSPX priest recommend his listeners look up Resistance websites to check out the caliber of the critics! I moved further back into the shadows when he said that, but now, I think he has a point.
-
:dancing-banana:Check the link for more photos. The men wear shorts, t-shirts, flip flops.
When criticism was launched against The Flying Squirrel, the India newsletter of the SSPX, I heard an SSPX priest recommend his listeners look up Resistance websites to check out the caliber of the critics! I moved further back into the shadows when he said that, but now, I think he has a point.
What is your point? My last statement isn't a criticism. It's an answer to the post before it, a mere statement of fact. That IS what most of the men and boys are wearing. Nobody wears American, "Sunday Best Go To Church" clothes. It's a poor, Muslim dominated area of a country devastated by a typhoon. The people are probably happy to have Mass of ANY sort.
-
To me it is extremely strange all the defensive excuses be mustered to mitigate the circuмstances of immorality. Certainly when the priests and faithful of the resistance of Latin America see this photo, and they will, they will understand that there is no excuse for allowing an extremely immodestly dressed woman receive communion. It would never happen in Latin America. Period. The resistance priests here have more decency. To defend this behavior is an abomination.
-
I would just like to point out that when a woman dresses immodestly for one day, she is likely to cause dozens of mortal sins by the men who see her dressed that way. I am a man, so I know that it is very difficult for a man to avoid sinning when women around him dress immodestly. So it is a big deal to dress immodestly, especially at Mass. I am not condemning her. Maybe she doesn't know better, but by dressing that way she is helping damn the souls of many of the men around her who see her dressed that way.
^^this^^
and with instruction, example and prayer, she and many others will come to this proper understanding, and why our priests must be firm in this instruction.
Mamachacha, you make a great point, but I respectfully disagree with the characterization of snotty and rude and condescending.
We are - or should be - truly scandalized by those who come to Mass dressed in a sinful manner. Being shocked and insulted by their dress is not being rude, snotty or condescending, it's honest embarrassment mixed with a sense of protection toward Our Savior who is present.
However, these poor creatures don't know any better, they've not been taught and need charitable guidance. I rejoice in their seeking out the TLM - a step in the right direction away from the world and toward Heaven.
My point is that Jesus was judgemental because He is the judge. The priest acts in persona Christi, so we should all stuff it and let Fr. Chazal act in persona Christi.
I choose to give the situation the benefit of the doubt. I don't know if it's just the trad culture or what, but ill dressed folks at mass are routinely sneered at. Why? Because trads expect everyone to know the way it is, the first time they walk through the door, regardless of where they're coming from, and I think this is a ludicrous expectation. Jesus kept teaching the apostles after He called them because they still needed instruction, so why presume that everyone has some psychic ability to comprehend the nuances of traditionalism on their first or their twentieth Sunday?
Learning and adjusting to a culture takes time and a lot of personal interior changes. If it's a temptation to presume judgement or a temptation of lust, you know what? Pray the precious blood of Jesus, and offer it up! There's nothing in the world stopping you from doing good for yourself through the mercy of Jesus.
Maybe you guys just aren't aware, but there are a lot of people who maybe haven't ever had any religion being literally called by name to Jesus, by Jesus. We need to wake up to the fact that lines are drawn and we are going to get a lot of people coming from a lot of different places. We can't sit cozy and warm and protected in a little trad bubble where only trads are allowed. It's not a country club, but it sure does feel that way sometimes.
-
"Oh God, I give Thee thanks that I am not like the rest of men, unjust, adulterers, immodestly dressed, as is this woman. I fast twice a week, I go to my trad chapels, and I dress modestly all the time."
Paraphrased. Luke 18:11
-
"Oh God, I give Thee thanks that I am not like the rest of men, unjust, adulterers, immodestly dressed, as is this woman. I fast twice a week, I go to my trad chapels, and I dress modestly all the time."
Paraphrased. Luke 18:11
:applause:
-
"Oh God, I give Thee thanks that I am not like the rest of men, unjust, adulterers, immodestly dressed, as is this woman. I fast twice a week, I go to my trad chapels, and I dress modestly all the time."
Paraphrased. Luke 18:11
.....therefore I just never criticize those "resistance" priests and only those "communists, adulterer, sodomite, cryroom having, SSPX menzingzen denzingen female, murderer"[taken exclusively from pro-resistance Cath info comments] priests.
:applause:
And then they want us to take them serious while they pledge allegiance to a man who says there is no Catholic God.
-
I remember Fr. Hewko once explaining why a n.o. priest was rightfully punished by his bishop for refusing Communion to a woman who he knew to be a lesbian "married" to another woman. The reason was because she did not fit the definition of "public sinner."
Be careful who accuse of being in a cult. Cults are quick to condemn people while the Catholic Church condemns doctrine.
:whistleblower:
NEED TO CLARIFY! MY WORDS MAY NOT BE CLEAR!
Fr. Hewko IN NO WAY supports the unjust punishment of a priest by his bishop for refusing Communion to a known public sinner. That being said, the woman's sin became public only AFTER she went to the media with her complaint about the priest. At the time of the sin's commission, the priest was the only one to know the state of her soul.
MY POINT IS THAT WE MUST NOT MAKE RASH JUDGMENTS BASED ON SCANT EVIDENCE!
This thread has unjustly condemned an unknown woman and a known priest.
Next time I see someone taking pictures or filming at Mass, I'm going to wonder if an uncomplimentary picture of me is posted on the internet for others to condemn. Matthew, this is the second time recently that people have been condemned on CI based upon brief appearances on film. Maybe future photos/videos can be screened?
-
1930 Letter of the Congregation of the Council
By virtue of the supreme apostolate which he wields over the Universal Church by Divine Will, our Most Holy Father Pope Pius XI has never ceased to inculcate, both verbally and by his writings, the words of St. Paul (1 Tim. xi,9-10), namely, "Women ... adorning themselves with modesty and sobriety ... and professing godliness with good works."
Very often, when occasion arose, the same Supreme Pontiff condemned emphatically the immodest fashion of dress adopted by Catholic women and girls -- which fashion not only offends the dignity of women and against her adornment, but conduces to the temporal ruin of the women and girls, and, what is still worse, to their eternal ruin, miserably dragging down others in their fall. It is not surprising, therefore, that all Bishops and other ordinaries, as is the duty of ministers of Christ, should in their own dioceses have unanimously opposed their depraved licentiousness and promiscuity of manners, often bearing with fortitude the derision and mockery leveled against them for this cause.
Therefore this Sacred Council, which watches over the discipline of clergy and people, while cordially commending the action of the Venerable Bishops, most emphatically exhorts them to persevere in their attitude and increase their activities insofar as their strength permits, in order that this unwholesome disease be definitely uprooted from human society.
In order to facilitate the desired effect, this Sacred Congregation, by the mandate of the Most Holy Father, has decreed as follows:
Exhortation to Those in Authority
1. The parish priest, and especially the preacher, when occasion arises, should, according to the words of the Apostle Paul (2 Tim. iv, 2), insist, argue exhort and command that feminine garb be based on modesty and womanly ornament be a defense of virtue. Let them likewise admonish parents to cause their daughters to cease wearing indecorous dress.
2. Parents, conscious of their grave obligations toward the education, especially religious and moral, to their offspring, should see to it that their daughters are solidly instructed, from earliest childhood, in Christian doctrine; and they themselves should assiduously inculcate in their souls, by word and example, love for the virtues of modesty and chastity; and since their family should follow the example of the Holy Family, they must rule in such a manner that all its members, reared within the walls of the home, should find reason and incentive to love and preserve modesty.
3. Let parents keep their daughters away from public gymnastic games and contests; but if their daughters are compelled to attend such exhibitions, let them see that they are fully and modestly dressed. Let them never permit their daughters to don immodest garb.
4. Superioresses and teachers in schools for girls must do their utmost to instill love of modesty in the hearts of maidens confided to their care and urge them to dress modestly.
5. Said Superioresses and teachers must not receive in their colleges and schools immodestly dressed girls, and should not even make an exception in the case of mothers of pupils. If, after being admitted, girls persist in dressing immodestly, such pupils should be dismissed.
6. Nuns, in compliance with the Letter dated August 23, 1928, by the Sacred Congregation of Religious, must not receive in their colleges, schools, oratories or recreation grounds, or, if once admitted, tolerate girls who are not dressed with Christian modesty; said Nuns, in addition, should do their utmost so that love for holy chastity and Christian modesty may become deeply rooted in the hearts of their pupils.
7. It is desirable that pious organizations of women be founded, which by their counsel, example and propaganda should combat the wearing of apparel unsuited to Christian modesty, and should promote purity of customs and modesty of dress.
8. In the pious associations of women those who dress immodestly should not be admitted to membership; but if, perchance, they are received, and after having been admitted, fall again into their error, they should be dismissed forthwith.
9. Maidens and women dressed immodestly are to be debarred from Holy Communion and from acting as sponsors at the Sacraments of Baptism and Confirmation; further, if the offense be extreme, they may even be forbidden to enter the church.
Donato Cardinal Sbaretti, Prefect
Congregation of the Council
Rome, January 12, 1930
Note:
1. This is the first mass ever made by Fr. Chazal(SSPX Marian Corps) in this province, and definitely the first time he has ever step foot in this place (Linamon, Lanao Del Norte, Mindanao, Philippines).
2. The people in the countryside has no knowledge or very very little knowledge about traditional mass. And I can say that it would have been the reason why that lady did not know how to dress up properly because they are used to going to the novus ordo mass wearing these kinds of clothing.
3. The chapel is not owned by neo-SSPX or The SSPX Marian Corps.
4. They are not wealthy to use an elegant dress[neat trousers, a coat, jacket or a dress sweater and tie].and they are not Americans,
5. It is a mission--he(Fr. Chazal) is just new to the area.. everything happens for a reason
6. this people are brainwashed by the local Priest(Novus Ordo) So we should understand them.."Teach Them Right"
7. "Hate The Sin Love The Sinner"
For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Thank you and may God bless us all.
-
9. Maidens and women dressed immodestly are to be debarred from Holy Communion and from acting as sponsors at the Sacraments of Baptism and Confirmation; further, if the offense be extreme, they may even be forbidden to enter the church.
-
I think that this event has circled the block one two many times. Pray for the woman and her co-attendees, pray for the priest who is involved, and pray that it does not happen again. And with that said, why not move on to something else.
-
I will certainly pray for this parish. What I see is a little different, though. First, those on one side in the back aren't veiled at all, including a toothless older woman who looks like she's focused properly on the altar and might even feel shame for not having a proper veil (the woman in blue):
(http://i.imgur.com/c4lJRuO.jpg)
Then the woman who's caused the ruckus, I note she's alone, but near many who could have legitimately offered her their longer veils, as they're more covered and could get away with a doily. But something else bugged me, and after blowing up the pics, as at first I thought she had a child hugging her, I now think the older, scantily-covered woman looks to be with child:
(http://i.imgur.com/QOptfTc.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/yXT0HbO.jpg)
See the way the chair ahead of her bumps up against her stomach?
But beyond all that, while the woman might not dress the part, she certainly seems to give great Catholic devotion, especially compared to her peers:
(http://i.imgur.com/uo4swgP.jpg)
Head bent, relatively prostate compared to those around her. (And here again, I think you can make out she's heavy with child, due to the way she's positioned in the chair, with her sandaled feet spread apart — a position I'm all too familiar with).
Sadly, this woman seems alone. I hope she's not being ostracized for any reason; maybe they just like to space it out there. Not calling for "a sign of the peace" or any other attack, of course, but a sincere prayer that she is not ostracized.
Overall, a parish that could use our prayers. First, that everyone who wants a veil (some LONG ones that pardon many slights in dress) might have one to borrow upon arrival. And also, that they come together a bit better as a parish: support the lone woman with the doily who may be pregnant, but either way, offer her their coverings when they can get away with a doily. (And if she's a mother-to-be, there's definitely that prayer to be made.)
Finally, that those boys start serving the altar, and wiping those grins off their faces. The possibly-pregnant woman with a doily isn't grinning; the toothless woman isn't grinning; those sitting in the back without veils aren't grinning. Mass isn't a time for grinning and looking about like a goon.
Yes, that parish definitely needs our prayers. :pray: :pray: :pray:
-
After a while everyone should just say a prayer, and leave it up to God.
Any sin or offense this woman or this priest may or may not have committed, they will have to answer to God.
It is unfortunate though that the teaching of the Faith has been watered down so much that I honestly believe she picked out the best outfit in her closet (if she even had a closet, most only have a drawers worth of clothes).
The Philippines was much better off before they were "liberated" from Spain.
When they were ruled by Spain they had 400 years of peace.
When the seeds of the Revolution infiltrated the minds of the Filipino elite, then the problems started.
The "nobility" brought back from Europe these ideas along with a love of country above God.
What became important was the Filipino within the Filipino, and not the Catholic in the Filipino.
Let us just all be thankful that the Mass is being said again in this bastion of Catholicism in Asia, and pray that the Missions grow as they did before.
O Divine Infant of Prague, graciously hear us!
:pray: :pray: :pray:
-
I will certainly pray for this parish. What I see is a little different, though. First, those on one side in the back aren't veiled at all, including a toothless older woman who looks like she's focused properly on the altar and might even feel shame for not having a proper veil (the woman in blue):
(http://i.imgur.com/c4lJRuO.jpg)
Then the woman who's caused the ruckus, I note she's alone, but near many who could have legitimately offered her their longer veils, as they're more covered and could get away with a doily. But something else bugged me, and after blowing up the pics, as at first I thought she had a child hugging her, I now think the older, scantily-covered woman looks to be with child:
(http://i.imgur.com/QOptfTc.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/yXT0HbO.jpg)
See the way the chair ahead of her bumps up against her stomach?
But beyond all that, while the woman might not dress the part, she certainly seems to give great Catholic devotion, especially compared to her peers:
(http://i.imgur.com/uo4swgP.jpg)
Head bent, relatively prostate compared to those around her. (And here again, I think you can make out she's heavy with child, due to the way she's positioned in the chair, with her sandaled feet spread apart — a position I'm all too familiar with).
Sadly, this woman seems alone. I hope she's not being ostracized for any reason; maybe they just like to space it out there. Not calling for "a sign of the peace" or any other attack, of course, but a sincere prayer that she is not ostracized.
Overall, a parish that could use our prayers. First, that everyone who wants a veil (some LONG ones that pardon many slights in dress) might have one to borrow upon arrival. And also, that they come together a bit better as a parish: support the lone woman with the doily who may be pregnant, but either way, offer her their coverings when they can get away with a doily. (And if she's a mother-to-be, there's definitely that prayer to be made.)
Finally, that those boys start serving the altar, and wiping those grins off their faces. The possibly-pregnant woman with a doily isn't grinning; the toothless woman isn't grinning; those sitting in the back without veils aren't grinning. Mass isn't a time for grinning and looking about like a goon.
Yes, that parish definitely needs our prayers. :pray: :pray: :pray:
I wasn't but it looked like the grinning kid is laughing at the person beside him who appears to be pulling the veil all the way over his whole face. His? Is it a girl wearing the veil?
Either way...I was a terror in Mass when I was a small child so theyre just goofing around, but I'm not mitigating that at all or offering excuses.
-
has circled the block one two many times.
Thanks for sharing.
-
Chapel caps- were common and acceptable before V-2. Because they were smaller, they could be kept in the rosary pouch, so were easy to keep at hand. Are they now immodest doilies?
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Vintage-Retro-Womens-Chapel-Cap-Religious-Catholic-Holy-lace-black-pouch-hair-/00/s/ODI1WDkwNg==/z/fUQAAOxygPtSsly2/$_35.JPG)(http://null)
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTpfkMqliwyOcFXHAw7h17uftqw8Yna4L8iBqA4prl1lOcrXq10)
A couple of ladies at my chapel wear them every Sunday. And what about hats?
-
:alcohol:
Chapel caps- were common and acceptable before V-2. Because they were smaller, they could be kept in the rosary pouch, so were easy to keep at hand. Are they now immodest doilies?
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Vintage-Retro-Womens-Chapel-Cap-Religious-Catholic-Holy-lace-black-pouch-hair-/00/s/ODI1WDkwNg==/z/fUQAAOxygPtSsly2/$_35.JPG)(http://null)
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTpfkMqliwyOcFXHAw7h17uftqw8Yna4L8iBqA4prl1lOcrXq10)
A couple of ladies at my chapel wear them every Sunday. And what about hats?
I'm not sure but I think it depends on where you're at.
-
Centroamerica:"I'm not sure but I think it depends on where you're at."
Ok, as far as the headgear goes , are we castigating this poor woman for using a perfectly proper head covering rather than the one many modern trads (wow, never thought I would put those two words together!) have become accustomed to seeing? How could it be right or wrong, modest or immodest depending on where one is located? I think sneering at her "doily" is overkill, and just mean.
Maybe somebody there in the Philippines would be kind enough to give her the link to this thread, then we could all be assured she was made aware of her transgressions and we could stop flogging her in absentia . It would be such a 'charitable' thing to do....
-
Really?
I thought we seré critical Of the picture because she is in a mass receiving Communion while exposing half of her upper body skin!!!!!
The fact that you thought the critical part was her veil is alarming to me if it means you see nothing at all wrong with women in mass exposing half their upper body skin. This is a complete disintegration of morality.
-
' And Our Blessed Lord, kneeling down , wrote into the dust the secret sins of each or her accusers. One by one they approached, and saw their sins written their by the Christ. Each one put down the stonbe with which he had intended to stone the harlot, and walked away.
When all her accusers were gone, Our Lord said to the woman " who dost accuse you?" "None, Master", she quietly whispered. " And neither do I-- go, and sin no more!" '
' And the Christ, coming upon the Temple, observed all the marketers hawking their goods, and the clutter of noise and merchandise, and tables of money and cheating in trade. He removed his belt, and began to whip the traders and the merchants, declaring " This is a house of Worship to My Father-- you have made it a den of thieves!" '
The good Lord teaches us that there is an appropriate response for differing situations. We, on this one thread, have condemned the worshippers at Holy Mass as harlots or worse; we have condemned the priests as reprobates or worse, we have condemned almost everybody and anybody who didn't jump to our desired mode of thinking or action as instantly as we desired.
And we are Catholic? We desire to participate in the mission of the Church, to spread the good news of the Gospel, That Jesus Christ has come and opened for us the gates of Heaven? Would Christ our Lord had Putin's Cossacks standing guard, whips drawn, ready to flail any who dared to approach a True Mass?
How many times have I, inadvertently, attended Mass dressed in jeans and a t-shirt, because I was surprised to find that a Mass was being offered at that moment? How many times has a soul, searching for the truth, been ejected from a Catholic venue because he or she was not instructed before hand on the dress code, but was promptly attacked by the "angry" mob?
We know for sure that those invited to the special dinner surely knew it was a big deal-- they surely know that the Ruler's vicar wouldn't be asking them to something that didn't require real fancy dress. So, when they showed up with such disrespect, they were properly punished. Do we know hat these people, following years and years of lax and laziness in religious 'services', deliberately went to this Mass with the intention of disrespecting their God?
This is one of the major failings of fora like this. Every foolish and stupid person, like myself, can take an ill formed opinion and castigate with impunity those that can not defend themselves-- and those who have never placed themselves in the public eye, accepting such criticisms; those that have never held themselves out as teachers, or leaders, or public persons.
But, we slink into that confessional, and the only words we listen for are
"... And therefore I absolve you ..."
-
Great Catholic reply hugeman, hopefully no one will be taking photos this week, and we can avoid roaming this fetid pasture for the next.
"Be thou mindful of thy word to thy servant,
in which thou hast given me hope.
This hath comforted me in my humiliation"
Ps. 118
-
From now on let us ignore all infringements on basic moral conduct as we become closer and closer to paganism.
-
Really?
I thought we seré critical Of the picture because she is in a mass receiving Communion while exposing half of her upper body skin!!!!!
The fact that you thought the critical part was her veil is alarming to me if it means you see nothing at all wrong with women in mass exposing half their upper body skin. This is a complete disintegration of morality.
You know I made my thoughts known about the lady's attire earlier in the thread.
A refresher:
The woman was most likely new. After a few Masses she will catch on to the modest clothing norm. Should she have been booted out and publicly humiliated for trying to attend Mass? She was obviously trying to look 'nice' for church- she just has to become informed of what is appropriate. Either someone will give her a heads-up, or she will notice quickly on her own. Women are especially sensitive to fashion faux-pas. Why risk squashing a fragile soul when it is not yet necessary?
Someone asked about the "doily" on her head. I think it was a chapel-cap. They used to be very common pre-V2. I have one myself.
There was also a picture of a boy with a veil on his head. He was just playing around for a moment. I guess no kids have ever gotten bored and horsed around at Mass before? Let's lynch him!
It seems to me that someone has an ax to grind with the resistance or with Fr Chazal in particular, and posted these in an attempt to make a mountain out of a molehill. Just sayin'...
I am starting to think you may just be hyper-zealous or captious. Either way, it was silly of me to rise to the bait, and I shan't any longer. Do keep posting pictures of Fr Chazal's Masses, though. I like to see that he is well and going about God's Work. Best Wishes- 1MT
-
I hadn't read your earlier post and was being serious.