Author Topic: New SSPX seminary in VA - CONSTRUCTION UNDERWAY (Read 9596 times)

Matthew · « **on:** December 31, 2012, 02:29:40 PM »

Did you know that they already have the money for this huge project -- at least "enough" of it?

I sure didn't.

I thought they bought the land and needed millions of dollars to build the new seminary complex.

Apparently they already have the money, and now they're doing appeals, etc. because they want to RE-FILL their coffers, preferably to 100% of where they were before.

They have already spent tons of money on rebar and concrete, and they are currently working on the basement and 1st floor -- according to the latest issue of their newsletter.

This might be old news to some -- but when analyzing "what the heck is going on in the SSPX" or determining +Fellay's goals and new direction, the fact of this huge Monument/Seminary being built -- close to the corridors of power in the USA -- must be taken into consideration.

We must constantly keep in mind that +Fellay has signed off on this project. This project has been green-lighted, and it is currently underway. There is no turning back.

One might ask -- would this project make ANY SENSE for an SSPX working "outside the normal structures"? Why the monument? There are still plenty of Faithful forced to attend Mass in hotel rooms. If the SSPX was only about preserving the Mass and saving souls, why not spend the money a bit more wisely?

Is this to impress Rome or something -- speaking the language of the World? "Look at how much material prosperity and money we have -- don't you want a piece of that action?"

My own chapel has three-quarters-of-a-million dollars in the bank, and yet we're STILL rotting in a small, stinky building in a bad neighborhood. Many crimes have taken place on the grounds, including in broad daylight. Visitors and prospective new parishioners are ushered through an open door off the main chapel into the parish hall (immediately connected to the chapel). Those in the Parish Hall get to watch Mass on TV -- ironic since the SSPX is supposed to be telling us to trash our TVs.

Needless to say, most of those new visitors never return. So we're talking about souls here!

Sure, in the abstract it's a good thing to draw attention to Tradition and its fruitfulness, even for an OLD-SCHOOL SSPX that doesn't make compromises.

But wouldn't it be tempting to combine a massive, "materially successful" organization with approval from Rome? You must admit, the temptation would be there to water-down a bit, to seek approval from the World/Rome.

Otherwise who is going to fill that massive structure?

Matthew · « **Reply #1 on:** December 31, 2012, 03:09:31 PM »

The fact of the matter is, the Winona seminary was a fine property that had plenty of land, isolation, natural beauty, "conduciveness to meditation", a "feeling that God is close" and all that.

They could have added on a new building for a fraction of the cost of this Catholic Disneyland they aim to build.

The worst part about this new Virginia seminary: they're going to have to ditch the Winona property!

Those of you that have been there can understand what a loss that is going to be.

But Winona, MN is in flyover territory. It's not close to the corridors of power; it's not noticed by many except for the SSPX Faithful. It's invisible to the "High and Mighty", which is apparently a problem for the Neo-SSPX.

Just like the Mormons have their massive temple in Washington, DC, the SSPX wants to have a large Disneyland-like structure for people to notice and talk about close to the Capital.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #2 on:** December 31, 2012, 03:28:21 PM »

Thanks for the "real news," Matthew. Your assessment appears ominously
verified. And therefore, I have to wonder about the new applicants who
entertain dreams of attending Winona: by the time they can go there,
it will have been abandoned. Very disappointing to think about.

As for your question,

Quote

But wouldn't it be tempting to combine a massive, "materially successful"
organization with approval from Rome?

You must admit, the temptation would be there to water-down a bit, to
seek approval from the World/Rome.

Otherwise who is going to fill that massive structure?

Two possibilities strike me immediately:

1) The NewChurch has been known recently to lavishly spend funds on
elaborate buildings that are utterly useless from a traditional perspective,
while they abandon right and left very traditional and marvelous buildings
all over the world, buildings that would serve the needs of a traditional
Catholic seminary or monastery quite well. I am reminded of the sacking
of the monasteries of England during the Bloody Persecution of Bloody
Queen Elizabeth. Bloody Beth "officially" went by the misnomer "good
queen Bess" while the good Catholic Queen, Mary, had a monicker that
endures to this day as a beverage: "Bloody Mary." We could order our
drinks with edification by asking for a "Bloody Bess," and if asked what
that is, say "it has an extra dose of vodka." But I digress... Remember
that monstrosity to JPII, a museum or center for interreligious luv or
whatever? It's vacant. Nobody cares. So perhaps this VA project is
an attempt to pamper that great urge that NewChurch obviously has, to
make vast structures that will be the setting for their New World Religion
somehow.

2) Vocations in NewChurch are way down. Let's be honest. They're in
the dump. Nobody wants to be a NewPriest. And who can blame them,
when NewChurch is so actively engaged with re-defining the priesthood
as irrelevant? The constant backdrop of irksome questions from well-
intentioned sedes accusing them of invalidating Holy Orders is a cattle
prod to a mule who doesn't want to budge. Who can blame them when
the pederasty scandal is festering like cancer and no bishop, no bishop,
no bishop is willing to admit the problem and abjure his longstanding
error. Therefore, perhaps this VA compound is meant to lure some of the
latent vocations out of the shadows of the Novus Ordo communities,
with the promise of having a more traditional formation, a training that
is rooted in the doctrines of the Doctors of the Church, rather than in
subjectivist COMMUNIST fantasy? And if it is, then perhaps it will evoke
an upsurge of responses from young men who otherwise would not have
tried to answer God's call, because places like the Pink Palace (St. John's
Seminary, Camarillo, CA) are simply out of the question due to their
reputation for everything Liberal and Modernist and Sodomist.

JacobRCharpentier · « **Reply #3 on:** December 31, 2012, 03:32:27 PM »

I have several problems with the VA site.

First, they (SSPX Powers) picked a state which is not particularly Catholic friendly. Maryland would have been better in that respect. But I have other reasons for not wanting a new seminary on a new site.

Second, as previously stated, what are they going to do with the old site? Selling it will not be impossible, but there is not a big market for used seminaries.

Third, assuming they really needed new construction, as opposed to "adding on" to the existing is correct, and assuming the physical land is available in Winona, going to a distant location creates many administrative problems through the transition period.

Fourth, new construction in Winona has to be cheaper than new construction in Virginia.

Lastly, we have assumed new construction is the only viable solution. The only people who go out and build "brand new" are those big name people with much much money. I guess SSPX is a big name with money.

Extra Last, they never asked me for any input. And if they did, I could have made a good case (financially speaking that is) to maintain the Winona facility. The point is, you can make either option look good on the books. It is easy to make new construction look cheaper because no one ever includes operating costs. The usual discussions goes something like this... "That old building needs constant attentions, but the new building will work just fine, roof is new, concrete is new, paint is new, etc. etc. etc." That old line "everything is new" will come back to bite them in the rear in 15 or 20 years when all of that wonderful new stuff starts to break down. And it will break down because the old stuff in Winona is proably better than the new stuff in VA.

How do I know this? It is my job, people pay me to know this kind of stuff. VA is a mistake from the beginning. Oh, I forgot about those wonderful summers in VA. They will make the Winona summers seem like a vacation to the seashore.

Jake

Ekim · « **Reply #4 on:** December 31, 2012, 04:03:23 PM »

Immaculate Conception "Mission" in Virginia Beach has been meeting in a hotel room for about 15 years or more. About 12 years ago they purchased about 4 acres of land off of Damneck Rd. They paid about $200K for the land but over time the area got heavily developed and some estimated the property to be worth 1.2million. The SSPX of course demanded ownership of the land (they did this at time of purchase, not after it's appreciation). The mission continued their building fund for a few years. Once word got out that the property value had jumped to 1.2million they were told to put the land up for sale. This land is on a highly visible road...would be great exposure for the True Mass.

The land is still for sale and folks in Virginia Beach...12+ years later, still meet in a hotel room. No real effort has been made to build a church in Virginia Beach. However they have tens of millions to build a trophy house just two hours up the road.

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #5 on:** December 31, 2012, 04:12:01 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

Did you know that they already have the money for this huge project -- at least "enough" of it?

I sure didn't.

I thought they bought the land and needed millions of dollars to build the new seminary complex.

Apparently they already have the money, and now they're doing appeals, etc. because they want to RE-FILL their coffers, preferably to 100% of where they were before.

They have already spent tons of money on rebar and concrete, and they are currently working on the basement and 1st floor -- according to the latest issue of their newsletter.

This might be old news to some -- but when analyzing "what the heck is going on in the SSPX" or determining +Fellay's goals and new direction, the fact of this huge Monument/Seminary being built -- close to the corridors of power in the USA -- must be taken into consideration.

We must constantly keep in mind that +Fellay has signed off on this project. This project has been green-lighted, and it is currently underway. There is no turning back.

One might ask -- would this project make ANY SENSE for an SSPX working "outside the normal structures"? Why the monument? There are still plenty of Faithful forced to attend Mass in hotel rooms. If the SSPX was only about preserving the Mass and saving souls, why not spend the money a bit more wisely?

Is this to impress Rome or something -- speaking the language of the World? "Look at how much material prosperity and money we have -- don't you want a piece of that action?"

My own chapel has three-quarters-of-a-million dollars in the bank, and yet we're STILL rotting in a small, stinky building in a bad neighborhood. Many crimes have taken place on the grounds, including in broad daylight. Visitors and prospective new parishioners are ushered through an open door off the main chapel into the parish hall (immediately connected to the chapel). Those in the Parish Hall get to watch Mass on TV -- ironic since the SSPX is supposed to be telling us to trash our TVs.

Needless to say, most of those new visitors never return. So we're talking about souls here!

Sure, in the abstract it's a good thing to draw attention to Tradition and its fruitfulness, even for an OLD-SCHOOL SSPX that doesn't make compromises.

But wouldn't it be tempting to combine a massive, "materially successful" organization with approval from Rome? You must admit, the temptation would be there to water-down a bit, to seek approval from the World/Rome.

Otherwise who is going to fill that massive structure?

Perhaps the SSPX/SO can buy the seminary in Winona.

Machabees · « **Reply #6 on:** December 31, 2012, 04:28:34 PM »

In following the line of thought in this post, I can only image what the "new" Tuition costs are going to be for the new aspirants to the priesthood. And the "forever" donation appeals for the maintenance of this huge structure.

Is this new higher cost going to hinder the numbers to be ordained in the future? Does the crisis in the Church at this time, or any other time, every need such "material" hindrance for the Gospel to be preached?

Didn't we have a Saint in the church who battled these rich trimmings? What was his name, hmmm, -oh yea- the Providential Saint Francis...

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #7 on:** December 31, 2012, 04:33:24 PM »

Quote from: Machabees

In following the line of thought in this post, I can only image what the "new" Tuition costs are going to be for the new aspirants to the priesthood. And the "forever" donation appeals for the maintenance of this huge structure.

Is this new higher cost going to hinder the numbers to be ordained in the future? Does the crisis in the Church at this time, or any other time, every need such "material" hindrance for the Gospel to be preached?

Didn't we have a Saint in the church who battled these rich trimmings? What was his name, hmmm, -oh yea- the Providential Saint Francis...

No problem there.

A good chunk of the new seminarians will come from wealthy families currently sending their sons to LaSalette Academy.

Wonder if a lot of those families are from out East?

JacobRCharpentier · « **Reply #8 on:** December 31, 2012, 04:33:31 PM »

One thing I forgot to say, it seems to me (and this is an uneducated response, not something to be taken as gospel) that most seminaries and monestaries are located in remote areas, typically not subject to wordly attractions. Monte Cassino comes to mind. I think it was on a remote hill top, out in the middle of nowwhere. Never having been to Winona, I cannot say personally, but everything is see and hear tells me it is in the middle of nowhere. One way to think of this problem is to consider a mountain. The mountain is a symbol of God, and where do you think you will find God? At the top most likely. That worked for Moses. It worked in the sermons I heard, and it will work today. A trip to the top of the mountain is a difficult journey. In the same manner, a trip to the seminary should not be easy. Moving the seminary from the "difficult to access" Winona to VA would be like Moses picking up the Ten Commandments down on the far side of the sheep pen rather than on top of the mountain. VA is just not the way it is done. But, no one asked me. So, all I can do is pray, and I don't even know what to ask God to do. That will have to be His choice.

I have said enough,

Jake

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #9 on:** December 31, 2012, 04:36:57 PM »

Quote from: JacobRCharpentier

One thing I forgot to say, it seems to me (and this is an uneducated response, not something to be taken as gospel) that most seminaries and monestaries are located in remote areas, typically not subject to wordly attractions. Monte Cassino comes to mind. I think it was on a remote hill top, out in the middle of nowwhere. Never having been to Winona, I cannot say personally, but everything is see and hear tells me it is in the middle of nowhere. One way to think of this problem is to consider a mountain. The mountain is a symbol of God, and where do you think you will find God? At the top most likely. That worked for Moses. It worked in the sermons I heard, and it will work today. A trip to the top of the mountain is a difficult journey. In the same manner, a trip to the seminary should not be easy. Moving the seminary from the "difficult to access" Winona to VA would be like Moses picking up the Ten Commandments down on the far side of the sheep pen rather than on top of the mountain. VA is just not the way it is done. But, no one asked me. So, all I can do is pray, and I don't even know what to ask God to do. That will have to be His choice.

I have said enough,

Jake

Interestingly enough, the seminary in Winona sits atop a large bluff/small mountain.

Ascetik · « **Reply #10 on:** December 31, 2012, 04:41:13 PM »

I have heard that the seminarians in Winona have to have 2 or 3 to a room, that's not conducive to a proper seminary formation where silence and privacy are needed so the seminarian can focus on private prayer and studies.

That's one thing about the FSSP seminary which was great. You had a room to yourself. I could not imagine sharing a room with other seminarians, it would make my spiritual life much more difficult/distracting.

I think the new seminary is a great idea.

stgobnait · « **Reply #11 on:** December 31, 2012, 04:43:55 PM »

MAYBE THE FSSP WILL JOIN....... PLENTY OF ROOMS......

richard · « **Reply #12 on:** December 31, 2012, 04:52:12 PM »

Quote from: Seraphim

Quote from: JacobRCharpentier
One thing I forgot to say, it seems to me (and this is an uneducated response, not something to be taken as gospel) that most seminaries and monestaries are located in remote areas, typically not subject to wordly attractions. Monte Cassino comes to mind. I think it was on a remote hill top, out in the middle of nowwhere. Never having been to Winona, I cannot say personally, but everything is see and hear tells me it is in the middle of nowhere. One way to think of this problem is to consider a mountain. The mountain is a symbol of God, and where do you think you will find God? At the top most likely. That worked for Moses. It worked in the sermons I heard, and it will work today. A trip to the top of the mountain is a difficult journey. In the same manner, a trip to the seminary should not be easy. Moving the seminary from the "difficult to access" Winona to VA would be like Moses picking up the Ten Commandments down on the far side of the sheep pen rather than on top of the mountain. VA is just not the way it is done. But, no one asked me. So, all I can do is pray, and I don't even know what to ask God to do. That will have to be His choice.

I have said enough,

Jake

Interestingly enough, the seminary in Winona sits atop a large bluff/small mountain.[

For those not wanting to go to VA perhaps KY would be better.

Olive · « **Reply #13 on:** December 31, 2012, 04:52:33 PM »

Regarding the VA Beach property: the land is unable to be built upon because it sits on a 'flood zone' and the zoning restrictions for building on it are so cuмbersome that it doesn't work. They have bought a new property to build a chapel. We just up there two months ago and this is what the site coordinators told us. In fact, that day they were off to see the new lot they were purchasing.

bowler · « **Reply #14 on:** December 31, 2012, 05:03:06 PM »

Quote from: Ascetik

I have heard that the seminarians in Winona have to have 2 or 3 to a room, that's not conducive to a proper seminary formation where silence and privacy are needed so the seminarian can focus on private prayer and studies.

That's one thing about the FSSP seminary which was great. You had a room to yourself. I could not imagine sharing a room with other seminarians, it would make my spiritual life much more difficult/distracting.

I think the new seminary is a great idea.

What is your area of expertise to make such an observation, contractor, accounting, engineering, banking?

I am all of the above, and the new seminary is a waste of money. Did you know that it'll cost when it's all done likely close to $100 million?

They should have just added living quarters to Winona. Now they are going to get nothing for selling Winona, AND they are going to build the same Winona in Virginia, plus some more living quarters. Ludicrous!