Author Topic: New SSPX- Novus Ordos Indulters Welcome - Resisters NOT (Read 5058 times)

bowler · « **Reply #15 on:** January 21, 2013, 12:54:47 PM »

Quote from: John Grace

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Attendance of a Traditional Latin Mass by NO's may be to their eventual good
So I see no harm there.

I agree.

May be, however, if they are coming because the SSPX is now "acceptable to Rome", or because the chapel is close, or prettier, in other words, if they come for the wrong reasons, it is not going to do anything for them to come to an SSPX chapel, they are not there for the truth.

John Grace · « **Reply #16 on:** January 21, 2013, 01:06:46 PM »

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May be, however, if they are coming because the SSPX is now "acceptable to Rome", or because the chapel is close, or prettier, in other words, if they come for the wrong reasons, it is not going to do anything for them to come to an SSPX chapel, they are not there for the truth.

Of course. I have encountered many people who won't attend the SSPX until they 'reconcile' with Rome. There are countless excuses. We could list them.

Again to use an Irish example, some people are pro-SSPX but attend the Indult because geographically it is nearer. Once they are getting the Latin Mass it matters little where they go.

Whilst I don't dispute that Catholics, who attend the FSSP, Institute Christ the King etc etc are sincere, I regard the Indult or Diocesan Latin Mass as a controlled opposition.

Many friends of mine attend the Indult/Summorum Pontificuм. Their attitude towards the SSPX varies.

My priority this year is the resistance.

Matthew · « **Reply #17 on:** January 21, 2013, 01:10:05 PM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Quote from: bowler
Give example of what you want to teach us.

GOO, accordista, etc these are unhelpful terms that trivialize the issue and make it sound like a childish disagreement.

Traditionalism has been invaded by neo-conservatives, and the results are disastrous.

All our terms should be descriptive and generally they should be serious, unless we are mocking the other side.

We should not mock ourselves by using silly terms.

Telesphorus, what in the WORLD are you talking about?

Accordista is a very serious, descriptive, useful term -- so much so, that I use it in my everyday speech.

"Grumpy old oyster" is an example of a silly or trivializing term.

You're just upset that you didn't come up with the term, but you COULD have (because it was invented by someone in the CathInfo-Ignis Ardens metroplex)

You see, Fellayite is too personal. It makes it sound like it's all just a personality conflict between the Fellayites and the Williamsonites. Not true at all.

It's about those who are pro-premature-agreement-with-Rome faction and the hardliners.

Liberals and conservatives doesn't work either -- besides the fact that those terms are always very relative, you could have someone very orthodox in belief and "traditional" in culture who still is pro-agreement for whatever reason.

I think the term "Accordista" is perfect.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #18 on:** January 21, 2013, 01:27:07 PM »

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You see, Fellayite is too personal.

The controversy really has been about the blind obedience demanded to +Fellay.

"Accordista" sounds goofy. It has always annoyed me, I doubt I've used it more than a few times.

TheRecusant · « **Reply #19 on:** January 21, 2013, 01:28:17 PM »

I gather GS got the idea (Grumpy Old Oyster) from listening to Bp. Williamson, who also has a slightly childish, irreverent (and self-depracating?) sense of humour. Perhaps this is one of those English/American sense of humour things.

Anyway, that was back in May. Perhaps events have moved on since then. Maybe the term 'Resistance' is better (back then, even Frs Chazal and Pfeiffer were still 'in good standing')..? In France in the early 70s the Trads who set up the first SSPX chapels called themselves "Resisters" so its a hallowed term.

PAT317 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 21, 2013, 01:52:02 PM »

I like "Resisters" or "Resistance." That's what the SSPX was supposed to have been all these years anyway: Resistance to modernism and the Revolution in general. So the current "resisters" are simply carrying that on, resisting the Revolution wherever it turns up, even within the SSPX.

I also use "Accordistas." It did seem imperfect in that it might sound like it implies only pro-premature deal with NewRome, i.e. emphasis on the "deal", when the crisis is about more than that. It's also about the softening of the SSPX, the creeping changes etc... But maybe "accordista" still covers that too, because the softening is largely for the purpose of coming to an agreement (accord) with NewRome anyway. In any case, "accordista" works well enough, and those familiar with this crisis get what is meant, so it works for me.

Jerome · « **Reply #21 on:** January 21, 2013, 01:53:15 PM »

I think it was Fr. Pfeiffer that told this story.....

Although it's very important to receive the sacraments, once received, what we do with it is more important.

In S. Korea, there's a family that only get's the sacraments and Holy Mass once a year (when a traditional priests visits). God gives more than enough Graces to this faithful family as He knows what's in their hearts and sees their perseverence of prayer in the Holy Rosary.

So, I am eternally thankful and Blessed, just to have a Resistance priest come by (even if it's only once or every other month) as we always remind ourselves on the strong Faith of this family in S. Korea and our own need to get closer to God.

John Grace · « **Reply #22 on:** January 21, 2013, 02:56:32 PM »

The best ever was Trads from Ireland organising events at World Youth Day.
http://www.youthdefence.ie/event/137994-2011-08-17-viva-la-vida-2011/

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Website: http://www.youthdefence.ie/projects/conferences/conference-2011/
Coordinator: Katie - Katie@truthtv.org
Add to my calendar: (.ICS format)

RSVP: Register for this event

Additonal Information

On August 17th, the hugely exciting Viva Vida Pro-Life Youth Festival wil be held in Madrid during World Youth Day 2011.

The magnificent Circulo della Belles Artes de Madrid, in the centre of the city, will be host to the Festival which has been organised by Youth Defence. It's expected to attract hundreds of young pro-life activists and leaders who will hear from leading pro-life advocates, listen to some of the best music bands , and learn moves for a pro-life 'flash mob' which will take place in Madrid's city centre. Featured bands include the very popular Ooberfuse, Elation Ministries L'Angelus and Scythian.

The Festival aims to build on the growing synergy and strength of youth-led pro-life groups, who are gaining new ground across Europe and the rest of the world. It will give a platform to more than a dozen such pro-life groups from Spain, Australia, Germany, Poland, Belgium, Ireland, the US, and other countries, and promises to be an exciting and positive celebration of Life aiming to encourage pro-life activism.

Speakers include renowned pro-life leader Cardinal George Pell, the pro-life investigative journalist, Lila Rose, and Fr Stan Fortuna.

The conference aims to emphasise the words of Pope Benedict who said that 'It is necessary that the whole of society defend the right to life'. As well as the Festival and the planned flash mob, the conference will reach thousands of young Catholics attending World Youth Day with special 'call to action' cards featuring Pope Benedict's words and giving web addresses of pro-life groups across the world.

Abortion is the human rights issue of our generation and we need to be informed, inspired and motivated to defend life.

The Festival is one of a series of the Viva la Vida events organised by Youth Defence in recent years which have attracted young pro-life leaders and activists and contributed to a significant rise in pro-life activism right across Europe.

Don't miss it!

John Grace · « **Reply #23 on:** January 21, 2013, 03:02:19 PM »

In their early days YD were very pro-SSPX but are now very much conservative Catholic.

http://tellingitasitisirl.blogspot.ie/search?updated-max=2012-10-17T15:09:00%2B01:00&max-results=10
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The fact that YD's last conference was at World Youth Day (in the face of protests from some of the "old guard") shows that their support base has moderated significantly in the intervening period. They are no longer picketing politician's houses and the ultra-nationalist rhetoric of their early years has mellowed somewhat. Surely YD should be given another chance?

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The divide is also reflected in the profiles of people that join either pro-life group. PLC's support base generally tends to be wealthier, urban and better educated, and tend to be either mainstream "conservative" Catholics or moderate traditionals. YD is a bit messier to disambiguate. There is very much a division between the "officer class" and the "rank and file". The first group are generally members of the extended Mac Mathuna family, and other members of the YD "old guard". They tend to be (though not exclusively) SSPX-leaning and many are fiercely nationalistic. The other faction in this group is the American interns, who don't really hold the views outlined above, but are distinct from the rank-and-file in that they are professional pro-life activists who usually return to lead groups in their home country, such as Live Action or Personhood USA. The "rank and file" (or amateurs) on the other hand, are (with exceptions) on the other end of the Catholic spectrum completely, with most coming from Youth 2000 or similar groups. This is in no small part a reflection of Fr.Brian McKevitt's support for YD, as he is highly regarded in the pro-life movement, particularly in Charismatic Catholic circles. Many are (unfortunately) devoted to Medjugorje, Maria Divine Mercy, Garabandal and other false apparitions.

John Grace · « **Reply #24 on:** January 21, 2013, 03:19:09 PM »

As I stated earlier the way forward in my opinion is a loose network of resistance. I personally believe God will continue to guide the resistance. It's sad the SSPX is sliding but God has a plan and in control. Personally, I am supporting the resistance and not the neo SSPX. I don't dispute there are good and holy priests in the Society but it is sliding in the wrong direction.

Incredulous · « **Reply #25 on:** January 21, 2013, 03:30:47 PM »

Quote from: John Grace

As I stated earlier the way forward in my opinion is a loose network of resistance. I personally believe God will continue to guide the resistance. It's sad the SSPX is sliding but God has a plan and in control. Personally, I am supporting the resistance and not the neo SSPX. I don't dispute there are good and holy priests in the Society but it is sliding in the wrong direction.

It crossed my mind... "How could the neoSSPX ever restore itself to an SSPX-SO ?"

When I consider certain priests, especially the post 2005 Ordination classes, I fear there must be a lot of pride involved.

It's hard to imagine these young priests coming to the SSPX-Resistance position, even if Bp. Fellay is proven by all counts to be wrong.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #26 on:** January 21, 2013, 04:16:42 PM »

Quote from: bowler

The people who say that they see no changes in the SSPX, should ask themselves, when was the last time that they heard a sermon against the Novus Ordo or the Indult mass communities?

Didn't Bishop Fellay just call the NO Mass "evil" in his Toronto conference?

He also pointed out how the FSSP is in a hopeless situation as they are muzzled.

John Grace · « **Reply #27 on:** January 21, 2013, 04:36:57 PM »

Quote from: stevusmagnus

Quote from: bowler
The people who say that they see no changes in the SSPX, should ask themselves, when was the last time that they heard a sermon against the Novus Ordo or the Indult mass communities?

Didn't Bishop Fellay just call the NO Mass "evil" in his Toronto conference?

He also pointed out how the FSSP is in a hopeless situation as they are muzzled.

Given the Zionist hand and money in the 'pious union' do you not believe that in some way that Bishop Fellay is 'muzzled'? I commend you for defending Bishop Fellay but disagree with you. You are loyal to Bishop Fellay.

John Grace · « **Reply #28 on:** January 21, 2013, 04:41:32 PM »

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It's hard to imagine these young priests coming to the SSPX-Resistance position, even if Bp. Fellay is proven by all counts to be wrong.

It's doubtful.

Kaesekopf · « **Reply #29 on:** January 21, 2013, 09:26:24 PM »

Quote from: bowler

Before I use to attend a old humble building, and now it is a new attractive church that has all of the "architectural marble, and smells&bells high masses with chorus and vestments and such.

Those sell-outs! How DARE they desire a nice looking church!