Author Topic: New Seminary in Virginia  (Read 3459 times)

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Offline JacobRCharpentier

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New Seminary in Virginia
« on: April 12, 2013, 07:06:26 AM »
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  • A while back there was a thread on the new SSPX seminary in Virginia.  Several of us commented and many of those comments were subjective comments.  I know, I made some of them myself.  I was also shocked when I learned that construction had started on the new seiminary.  I had assumed it was in the talking stage, not the construction stage.  To start construction means you have already created architectrual, engineering and site plans suitable for bidding and construction.  That step is way beyond where I thought they were.  And where does the money come from for such a project?  It comes from the pockets of people like us, or at least that is what the SSPX money guys think.  The SSPX.org web site has much info on this new seminary and somewhere on that site (or maybe through a link) they post a number of FAQs about the new seminary.  I viewed this a propaganda.  As I said in a previous post on this subject, I can see through the technical words they write.  It is my business, I know about building design and construction. Now we have new "Resistance" info for our reading and discussion purposes, not to mention knowledge and even spriitual growth.  

    A web site I will frequently check into, www.OurLadysResistance.org has just posted commentary on these FAQs.  It is on their home page, just scroll down until you find it.  It asks some very interesting question, and above all, moves the whole idea of building a new seminary from the practical/impractical question to one of a sprirtual question.  The discussion also proposes some interesting financial questions.

    In the beginning of this seminary discussion (a few years ago?) I had assumed they were throwing out ideas for discussion.  I really thought they were still at that stage when I heard they were ready to start construction.  That is probably due to my ignorance more than anything else.  But I am left with the feeling they ran most of this project in the dark, so as to get it going.  It is like a battleship, too big to stop and turn around.  

    If you get this far, thank you for reading.  Once my fingers get going on the keyboard, they are hard to stop.  Now I really need to stop.  May Our Lord give us the strength to endure.

    Jake

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    New Seminary in Virginia
    « Reply #1 on: April 12, 2013, 07:23:53 AM »
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  • A new seminary for a new sspx.

    It symbolizes leaving the old doctrinal sspx behind, and stands as a monument to G.R.E.C.s new spiritual sspx.

    There is no argument able to explain away the fact that the Winona seminary was perfectly functional, and could have been.added on to for a fraction of the cost of the new monstrosity.

    But of course, the ghost of Bishop Williamson lives in those hallways, and it is his memory and influence which the sspx seeks to rid themselves of by moving to Virginia.
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-


    Offline Telesphorus

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    New Seminary in Virginia
    « Reply #2 on: April 12, 2013, 07:40:02 AM »
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  • Quote from: JacobRCharpentier
    A while back there was a thread on the new SSPX seminary in Virginia.  Several of us commented and many of those comments were subjective comments.  I know, I made some of them myself.  I was also shocked when I learned that construction had started on the new seiminary.  I had assumed it was in the talking stage, not the construction stage.  To start construction means you have already created architectrual, engineering and site plans suitable for bidding and construction.  That step is way beyond where I thought they were.  And where does the money come from for such a project?  It comes from the pockets of people like us, or at least that is what the SSPX money guys think.  The SSPX.org web site has much info on this new seminary and somewhere on that site (or maybe through a link) they post a number of FAQs about the new seminary.  I viewed this a propaganda.  As I said in a previous post on this subject, I can see through the technical words they write.  It is my business, I know about building design and construction. Now we have new "Resistance" info for our reading and discussion purposes, not to mention knowledge and even spriitual growth.  

    A web site I will frequently check into, www.OurLadysResistance.org has just posted commentary on these FAQs.  It is on their home page, just scroll down until you find it.  It asks some very interesting question, and above all, moves the whole idea of building a new seminary from the practical/impractical question to one of a sprirtual question.  The discussion also proposes some interesting financial questions.

    In the beginning of this seminary discussion (a few years ago?) I had assumed they were throwing out ideas for discussion.  I really thought they were still at that stage when I heard they were ready to start construction.  That is probably due to my ignorance more than anything else.  But I am left with the feeling they ran most of this project in the dark, so as to get it going.  It is like a battleship, too big to stop and turn around.  

    If you get this far, thank you for reading.  Once my fingers get going on the keyboard, they are hard to stop.  Now I really need to stop.  May Our Lord give us the strength to endure.

    Jake


    I'm not sure the link you mentioned gives adequate criticisms of the seminary project.

    Could you tell us your own views on the matter, given your background?

    One thing is certain, there always those who push for new construction and they have very standard answers to "justify" huge outlays of money for dubious advantages.

    "reduced maintenance" is a classic one.  "age" is another - as though the Church isn't famous for its ancient buildings!

    An obsession with new building projects is part of the spirit of the age we live in.  Out with the old, in with the new, neo-traditional, in range of DC and conciliatory to conciliarism, Judaism, and the incipient totalitarianism that is now developing throughout the Western world.

    Offline PerEvangelicaDicta

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    New Seminary in Virginia
    « Reply #3 on: April 12, 2013, 07:55:12 AM »
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  • Quote from: SeanJohnson
    A new seminary for a new sspx.

    It symbolizes leaving the old doctrinal sspx behind, and stands as a monument to G.R.E.C.s new spiritual sspx.

    There is no argument able to explain away the fact that the Winona seminary was perfectly functional, and could have been.added on to for a fraction of the cost of the new monstrosity.

    But of course, the ghost of Bishop Williamson lives in those hallways, and it is his memory and influence which the sspx seeks to rid themselves of by moving to Virginia.


    Inspired commentary.  Thank you.

    Offline AntiFellayism

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    « Reply #4 on: April 12, 2013, 08:30:49 AM »
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  • hollingsworth paraphrasing Fr. Pfluger on the other thread:

    Quote
    Yes there are problems in the church; yes, we're in a crisis,(...) Pray for more vocations because there's a problem presently with recruitment.  


    Yet they need a brand new giant seminary because that Jewish money has to be used, you know....
    And now, we have a perfectly liberal Pope, my very dear brothers. As he goes to this country [the United States]which is founded upon Masonic principles, that is, of a revolution, of a rebellion against God. And, well, he expressed his admira


    Offline Mea Culpa

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    « Reply #5 on: April 12, 2013, 08:51:22 AM »
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  • Quote from: AntiFellayism
    hollingsworth paraphrasing Fr. Pfluger on the other thread:

    Quote
    Yes there are problems in the church; yes, we're in a crisis,(...) Pray for more vocations because there's a problem presently with recruitment.  


    Yet they need a brand new giant seminary because that Jewish money has to be used, you know....


    They also have to "dust off their shoes" from the memories of the old seminary in order to show Rome that they're making a brand new start with fresh new beginings/teachings.
     :cheers:

    Offline JacobRCharpentier

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    « Reply #6 on: April 12, 2013, 12:29:51 PM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus

    I'm not sure the link you mentioned gives adequate criticisms of the seminary project.

    Could you tell us your own views on the matter, given your background?

    One thing is certain, there always those who push for new construction and they have very standard answers to "justify" huge outlays of money for dubious advantages.

    "reduced maintenance" is a classic one.  "age" is another - as though the Church isn't famous for its ancient buildings!

    An obsession with new building projects is part of the spirit of the age we live in.  Out with the old, in with the new, neo-traditional, in range of DC and conciliatory to conciliarism, Judaism, and the incipient totalitarianism that is now developing throughout the Western world.


    You ask for my own view, I offer these thoughts.  This coming Sunday is Good Shepherd Sunday.  What do Shepherds do?  They keep sheep and watch the flock.  But our shepherds are not watching but fleecing their sheep.  The thirty some FAQs the SSPX published regarding the new seminary highlights all of the reasons they percieve we need a new facility.  All of these reasons cost money. They do not address this money question. The only place they plan to get the money is from their sheep.  And they will fleece them to get it.  They will take our wool, take it to market and use the money for their purposes.  These are not Good Shepherds.  Our Lord said something about His sheep, saying He knows them and they know Him.  That is not the case here.  Our shepherds know us, but we do not know what they are about to do.  Somewhere in the FAQs, they state they have about 11% of the money needed.  That is only $2.5 million.  That leaves more than $47 million still needed.  Where does that come from?  The sheep.  We are about to be fleeced.  They will not fleee me, and most of you will not likely be fleeced.  But, I look at my parish.  Most of the people there are of ill will.  They do not want to hear anything contrary to +Fellay.  They believe +Fellay is next to God, so when the shepherds get the clippers out, they will willing submit to a clipping.  

    I don't say this because I am cynical, which I probably am, but I say this because I know funding is needed. I understand how funding works.  Many projects in which I am involved require me to be an integral part of the funding phase.  Architectural and engineering drawings are prepared to such a level of finish that very accurate cost estimates can be prepared which will identify all costs.  These estimates are then used as an integral element in the fund raising process.  That fund raising process has not happened in any formal manner other than the Christmas and Easter "send money" appeal.  And here is the really big bomb, just so you understand of course, the $2.5 million they have will not pay for the design architect/engineers fee.  Typically those fees are 8% to 12% of the construction cost.    This money can only come from the sheep.

    I am sure all of you are familiar with the painting of Our Lord carrying the lost sheep on His back, the true Good Shepherd looking out for His sheep.  Sadly, our SSPX shepherds, Our Lord's representatives here on earth would rather sheer the sheep (physically) than nurse them (spiritually) back to health.  

    Listen carefully, you can hear the buzz of the clippers now.  

    Oh, one other thing.  Krah seems to be sitting on something in the range of 80 to 90 million Euros (which I understand is SSPX money), which would be well over $100 million US dollars.  They don't seem to mention this in their FAQs (maybe they do, so don't hold me to that comment).  Even if they did mention the money, I would not look for them to write a $50,000,000 check to the Virginia Seminary Building Fund.  So, it keeps coming back to the fleecing of the sheep.  Maybe someone would like to comment on the Krah fund.

    Good Shepherds? Phooey, I don't see any.  

    One more one more thing.  The link does not actively criticize, it points out many, many facts.  We all have brains which God gave us, let us use them.  We can read the link and ask questions.  The fleecing by the Good Shepherds is just one such question.  

    Jake

    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #7 on: April 12, 2013, 12:30:50 PM »
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  • Quote from: Mea Culpa
    Quote from: AntiFellayism
    hollingsworth paraphrasing Fr. Pfluger on the other thread:

    Quote
    Yes there are problems in the church; yes, we're in a crisis,(...) Pray for more vocations because there's a problem presently with recruitment.  


    Yet they need a brand new giant seminary because that Jewish money has to be used, you know....


    They also have to "dust off their shoes" from the memories of the old seminary in order to show Rome that they're making a brand new start with fresh new beginings/teachings.
     :cheers:


    I agree -- moving is like changing one's name. It can be highly symbolic of a change of heart.

    After a divorce, the house the couple formerly lived in is almost always sold. There's a reason for this. Why remember the past life you can no longer have?

    They call it "a fresh start".
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    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #8 on: April 12, 2013, 12:34:52 PM »
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  • Quote from: JacobRCharpentier

    Oh, one other thing.  Krah seems to be sitting on something in the range of 80 to 90 million Euros (which I understand is SSPX money), which would be well over $100 million US dollars.  They don't seem to mention this in their FAQs (maybe they do, so don't hold me to that comment).  Even if they did mention the money, I would not look for them to write a $50,000,000 check to the Virginia Seminary Building Fund.  So, it keeps coming back to the fleecing of the sheep.  Maybe someone would like to comment on the Krah fund.

    Good Shepherds? Phooey, I don't see any.  

    One more one more thing.  The link does not actively criticize, it points out many, many facts.  We all have brains which God gave us, let us use them.  We can read the link and ask questions.  The fleecing by the Good Shepherds is just one such question.  
    Jake


    Good point -- if they TRULY BELIEVE this particular building project is necessary. (Not just more seminary space, but a brand-new monumental seminary) they should have no problem putting their money where their mouth is and writing out a check to cover the whole thing.

    What else is that nest egg for, anyhow?
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    Offline bowler

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    « Reply #9 on: April 12, 2013, 12:58:31 PM »
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  • Quote from: JacobRCharpentier
      Somewhere in the FAQs, they state they have about 11% of the money needed.  That is only $2.5 million.  That leaves more than $47 million still needed.  


    The other CI threads on the subject brought out the point that the $50 million estimate is only for one part of the project. That it could be as high as $100+ million.

    Where will the money come from? Certainly not from the SSPX parishioners, they can hardly afford to maintain their own chapels. The SSPX received $115,000,000 (Dollars converted from Euros) from Max Krah's handlers, and that is just in Europe. More big money like that could be forthcoming from similar USA sources.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #10 on: April 12, 2013, 01:04:36 PM »
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  • What do you want to bet that many promises of large sums of money were made?

    That Bishop Fellay was expecting a huge windfall from "regularization?"

    And now the people who made the promises have gotten him to commit to this project, they can keep making demands as they slowly disburse the funds.


    Offline ultrarigorist

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    « Reply #11 on: April 12, 2013, 01:16:27 PM »
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  • Perhaps the whole point of this boondoggle is to "formally" bankrupt the SSPX at some point in the next 5 years.
    They might then begin a program of mothballing all Mass centers where there's no true Catholic alternative.

    Offline Marlelar

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    « Reply #12 on: April 12, 2013, 01:43:42 PM »
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  • Quote from: bowler
    The other CI threads on the subject brought out the point that the $50 million estimate is only for one part of the project. That it could be as high as $100+ million.

    Where will the money come from? Certainly not from the SSPX parishioners, they can hardly afford to maintain their own chapels. The SSPX received $115,000,000 (Dollars converted from Euros) from Max Krah's handlers, and that is just in Europe. More big money like that could be forthcoming from similar USA sources.


    hmmm... how many little chapels would that build so that the faithful who are scattered far and wide would have the sacraments???

    Why not just add on to the Winona site?  Empire building?  Or maybe they just don't living in the frozen north :)

    Marsha

    Offline JacobRCharpentier

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    « Reply #13 on: April 12, 2013, 03:31:48 PM »
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  • Quote from: ultrarigorist
    Perhaps the whole point of this boondoggle is to "formally" bankrupt the SSPX at some point in the next 5 years.
    They might then begin a program of mothballing all Mass centers where there's no true Catholic alternative.


    Mothballing?  That could happen from more than one direction.  Here in our parish, we had a member (or maybe I should say an interested party as it was not clear if he/she was actually a member) point out to the faithful here (via a broadcast e-mail) that if the SSPX/Rome deal were to happen, our parish would likely be closed.  Our school site which is remote from the church would also come under the jurisdiction of the local bishop and being considerably more valuable than the church property would be closed and sold.  Easy money for the local bishop.  You would not believe how this person was attacked for such a message.  So will you convince the local members that there is a problem with the VA Seminary?  Not likely.  Here in this town, they will likely view this as an attack on the SSPX.  Incidently, the poster I noted above received 40 negative e-mails ranging from "don't e-mail me again" to vile, nasty comments.  And my response to that was, "and you people call yourselves Catholic?"  These nasty people will willingly shell out money to support a new seminary.  If you mention the concept "mothballing" to them, you will be run out of town on a rail.  

    I have my rail pass ready.

    Jake

    Offline Raphaela

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    « Reply #14 on: April 12, 2013, 08:14:18 PM »
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  • Quote from: bowler
    Where will the money come from? Certainly not from the SSPX parishioners, they can hardly afford to maintain their own chapels. The SSPX received $115,000,000 (Dollars converted from Euros) from Max Krah's handlers, and that is just in Europe. More big money like that could be forthcoming from similar USA sources.

    There was a very misinformed discussion of this earlier. This inheritance is part of the will of Rosa Guttmann, an Austrian SSPX supporter who died in the 1980's (as far as I know). Archbishop Lefebvre accepted the inheritance, including the castle (Schloss Jaidhof), which was already being used by the Austrian District of the SSPX c. 1989, if not earlier. The money just seems to have taken longer to sort out. But Archbishop Lefebvre must have accepted it as well. It was a percentage of her husband's estate (which she had inherited in 1969) and which had to be divided up after her death. Her husband's father was a Jewish convert, as was his aunt Elisabeth, who married Prince Franz I of Liechtenstein in 1929 (still a Catholic reigning house).

    Archbishop Lefebvre had other rich benefactors:

    Quote
    On July 22 [1985], [Claude] Lady Kinnoull dies in Carmel, CA. She was the very first providential benefactress of the Society. English countess, very cultivated, knowing profoundly her religion with a solid attachment to tradition, with the character of a crusader, and with a great fortune, she supported financially Gen. Franco during the Spanish War. Restless fighter, in 1964 [1966] she flew to Paris to meet Archbishop Lefebvre while he was still Superior General of the Holy Ghost Fathers, to tell him that her fortune and influences would be at his service if he needed help to fight against the subversion within the Church. During the first years of the Society of Saint Pius X in Fribourg she covered most of the expenses of that early foundation. At her death, the Archbishop wrote:

         "She could consider the young priests of the Society as her children because without her help at the beginning it would not have been possible to fulfill our priestly work."

    http://www.holycrossseminary.com/Most_Asked_Questions_Appendix_III_page6.htm
     

     

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