Author Topic: New Resistance priory in England  (Read 4595 times)

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Offline Matthew

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New Resistance priory in England
« on: January 23, 2016, 12:01:41 PM »
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  • (Original letter removed by request of author)

    Here is the information I learned after receiving that letter by e-mail:


    Fr. King has purchased a new "priory" or house/Mass center for the Resistance. It will be used to offer Mass for the faithful in the area, as well as offer a place for priests in the "Northern Mission" to stay.

    A house on the southern outskirts of Southport has been purchased (he acquired the property on January 18th, 2016), which should serve the area's needs for the forseeable future. The first Mass was said on January 20th, and the first public Mass will be on Sunday, January 24th at 1:30 PM. The chapel will be dedicated to St. Gregory the Great, the Apostle of England.
    The house is modest; it's a typical three bedroom semi-detached home. The chapel will be on the ground floor, and should accommodate 25-30 faithful.

    Fr. King will remain at his apartment until the lease runs out, and then on February 4th he will move permanently to this new property.

    Father is grateful to all who helped make this purchase possible.
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    Offline Matthew

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    New Resistance priory in England
    « Reply #1 on: January 23, 2016, 12:12:50 PM »
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  • Interesting how different the cost of living is in various places.

    The purchase price of the "three bedroomed semi-detached" house in dollars is $202,846.

    Semi-detached? That means it's not even a separate house, but partly connected to several others like an apartment or condo!

    $202,846 would buy a recently built, 2,100 square foot house with a stone facade and 5 acres of land here in Texas.

    But then again, the population in Texas is spread out and it's harder to get a congregation together -- at least one with ample resources. So I suppose it's good that things are cheaper here...

    So I guess the strategy would be to build your seminaries, headquarters, etc. in a place like Texas, so your money gathered from all over the US would stretch as far as possible.

    Anyhow, glad to hear they're expanding and making progress over in England. I don't mean to be a spoil sport; I just know I'd never want to live in such an expensive country.

    Here is a list of the top 15 most expensive countries to live in. 100% = the price of living in New York City (which is notoriously expensive). And no, New York City is not a good sample of the cost of living in the United States...

    Switzerland - 126.03
    Norway - 118.59
    Venezuela   - 111.01
    Iceland - 102.14
    Denmark - 100.60
    Australia - 99.32
    New Zealand - 93.71
    Singapore - 93.61
    Kuwait - 92.97
    United Kingdom - 92.19
    Ireland - 92.09
    Luxembourg - 91.78
    Finland - 89.68
    France - 88.37
    Belgium - 87.22

    "By contrast, the cost of living in the U.S. is cheaper than at least 20 other countries, including Canada, Australia and the U.K."
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    Offline Centroamerica

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    New Resistance priory in England
    « Reply #2 on: January 23, 2016, 12:45:36 PM »
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  • Sometimes it's better to compare cost vs. quality.

    For example, here in Brazil a house is pretty expensive even if it isn't comparable with Europe. The kicker is that they still use asbestos in construction here. Oh yeah, and terra cotta. A nice flower pot house with an asbestos roof will cost you 100,000 easy.
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    Offline clare

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    New Resistance priory in England
    « Reply #3 on: January 23, 2016, 02:28:54 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Semi-detached? That means it's not even a separate house, but partly connected to several others like an apartment or condo!

    No. Semi-detached means it's attached to one other house on one side, and not attached on the other. If it was attached on both sides, it would be a terrace. Either way, it's not like an apartment. Semi-detached houses are basically conjoined twins. For example:


    (That's just a random one I picked from images.)

    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #4 on: January 23, 2016, 02:33:07 PM »
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  • Quote from: clare
    Quote from: Matthew
    Semi-detached? That means it's not even a separate house, but partly connected to several others like an apartment or condo!

    No. Semi-detached means it's attached to one other house on one side, and not attached on the other. If it was attached on both sides, it would be a terrace. Either way, it's not like an apartment. Semi-detached houses are basically conjoined twins. For example:


    (That's just a random one I picked from images.)


    Thanks for the pic.

    But I still look down on any living space that's connected on ANY side to any other family's living space. Where I come from (the American midwest), even many poor peoples' homes are totally "detached" with decent front and back yards.

    My parents were married in 1975 and bought a house with a normal (American) sized front yard and back yard for $15,000 (with a mortgage of course). It was a bad neighborhood, but we survived. That's what I'm used to.

    America is much larger than Britain; that's probably why everyone gets more space to himself.
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    Offline Wessex

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    « Reply #5 on: January 23, 2016, 05:02:31 PM »
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  • A typical inter-war semi built in their thousands for about £500. This exercise in property democracy however did not meet with great enthusiasm since folk had been used to renting and did not want to be responsible for maintenance. Welfarism has always been a problem here.

    Going to far-flung places where property is relatively cheap (Kent/Lancashire coast) is somewhat different to ABL's early mission using large central London hotels and town halls. Serving small isolated pockets of Catholics is now the order of the day and is an indication of how far things have deteriorated in the attempt to hang onto what is being lost. While I now regard the mainstream church with great indifference and the SSPX as one of many exploiters inside tradition, the building of new communities that are disillusioned with what they had before is very much like history repeating itself. Will they also end up like the earlier ones?  

    Offline Franciscan Solitary

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    « Reply #6 on: January 23, 2016, 07:42:55 PM »
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  • Quote from: Wessex
    A typical inter-war semi built in their thousands for about £500. This exercise in property democracy however did not meet with great enthusiasm since folk had been used to renting and did not want to be responsible for maintenance. Welfarism has always been a problem here.

    Going to far-flung places where property is relatively cheap (Kent/Lancashire coast) is somewhat different to ABL's early mission using large central London hotels and town halls. Serving small isolated pockets of Catholics is now the order of the day and is an indication of how far things have deteriorated in the attempt to hang onto what is being lost. While I now regard the mainstream church with great indifference and the SSPX as one of many exploiters inside tradition, the building of new communities that are disillusioned with what they had before is very much like history repeating itself. Will they also end up like the earlier ones?  

    To paraphrase George Santayana:  "Those who refuse to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it."  Which is to say:  "In rationalism, out rationalism."  For some reason many Traditionalists cling to a sanitised sterilised rationalist version of Catholicism and then wonder why they are in a sterile dead-end that  only repeats itself like a broken record.  Until Catholics can admit that our religion is essentially something noble, aristocratic and more or less too good for this world, the same old factionalism will repeat again and again.  

    Filial piety means revering the Catholic heritage and then trying to live up to it, not keeping the fund-raisers busy.  Saints are born to the right parents, not made by the most rational educational technocrat with the most clever technique.  Time to get real about Catholic education.  Make the Mass the heart and soul of education and the world would soon be at our feet.

    Whereas half-hearted defeatism is always the fast road to nowhere.  Fortune favours the brave.


    Offline curioustrad

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    « Reply #7 on: January 23, 2016, 09:56:26 PM »
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  • 1) Is this the complete text or was there more from which this was excerpted ?

    2) Is there a way to contact Fr. King directly if one wants to offer him support ?

    3) Having grown up literally 10 minutes a way on foot - I know this area of Southport like the back of my hand.


    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #8 on: January 24, 2016, 11:51:27 AM »
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  • Quote from: curioustrad
    1) Is this the complete text or was there more from which this was excerpted ?

    2) Is there a way to contact Fr. King directly if one wants to offer him support ?

    3) Having grown up literally 10 minutes a way on foot - I know this area of Southport like the back of my hand.


    I posted the whole "friends and benefactors" letter, and then Fr. King, the butcher, the baker, and the candlestick maker all wrote to me with a request to take it down. It seems counter-intuitive to write a FRIENDS AND BENEFACTORS letter and send it to more than 2 people, and expect it to stay totally secret!

    Lesson to be learned: Don't send out anything in a Friends and Benefactors mass e-mail that you wouldn't want on the homepage of CathInfo. That SHOULD be common sense.

    I don't see what the big deal is.
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    Offline guster110

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    « Reply #9 on: January 24, 2016, 02:31:06 PM »
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  • the newsletter wasn't sent en mass at all but actually to specific individual friends and benefactors! I emailed it so I should know!! That's why it shouldn't have been posted on this or any other forum! Lesson learned by the way!

    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #10 on: January 24, 2016, 03:26:36 PM »
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  • I will say --

    In my opinion, Fr. Pfeiffer is right that Masses should be public so any Catholic can attend. I think any Catholic of good will should be able to find and attend a Tridentine Mass in his area.

    (By the way, this criticism has been leveled against Fr. Zendejas in the past. But the fact is that few chapels are as Google-able as St. Dominic's Chapel here outside San Antonio, served by Fr. Zendejas)

    What about evil men? Hecklers? Well, they are eventually going to come. They have to be dealt with. You can't have a field without weeds, or a net without bad fishes. That's the very nature of the Catholic Church.

    If you keep a Mass location secret, or "by invitation only", you're basically running a secret society or country club.

    Now I would make a small exception for groups just starting out, or places with a particular danger regarding certain individuals. Some places are a powder keg, and I suppose there is a certain latitude for prudence. But eventually (say, after a property is purchased, making the location secure) a Mass location needs to be made public so that ALL Catholics in the area can benefit. The Catholic Church is supposed to be the net enclosing good and bad fishes, which God later sorts out. Also it is compared to a field with tares (weeds) and wheat growing together simultaneously. We can't have a perfect society/group or exclusive club of "saints".

    When someone calls up, we should give them the benefit of the doubt and give them the address. But how can they call, if the number isn't published anywhere?

    Can the priest honestly say he's trying to help souls, when X souls can't even find his apostolate? I don't think the saints acted this way. They were fearless, and if they met opposition because of their open apostolate, they let God judge for them.

    When men try to have a field without weeds, you end up with poisonous things like Roundup from the evil corporation Monsanto -- in other words, an abomination!
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    Offline curioustrad

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    « Reply #11 on: January 24, 2016, 03:39:00 PM »
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  • No there are other issues at stake of a more municipal nature shall we say.

    One cannot just open a church in one's garage without the local government regulating it in some way. There are issues like noise and parking, neighbors getting irritated etc.

    "By invitation only" is one way of (temporarily) circumventing this kind of regulation, a chapel for 25 - 30 will never fly in a house in a residential district without a great deal of local upset.

    If you live on a farm or in a rural setting the chances of neighbors complaining are much lower. However, even here, a complaint can land you in serious hot water.

    Here in the US there is a piece of legislation that George W. Bush signed into law that makes it very hard for local government to interfere with a bona fide church in the legitimate exercise of its functions but the law's constitutionality has been questioned in several major cases (not yet against if I'm correct). Such a law doesn't exist in the UK as far as I'm aware and let's not forget there is an Established Church there...

    Offline Avis

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    « Reply #12 on: January 24, 2016, 04:20:20 PM »
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  • Hold your horses. Who says that the Masses are secret? They are not. They are advertised here under 'Northern Mission' - Respice Stellam

    The newsletter inlcuding the address of the new 'priory' is the issue because of problems with the local authorities.

    Offline Wessex

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    « Reply #13 on: January 25, 2016, 06:50:10 AM »
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  • Quote from: Franciscan Solitary
    Quote from: Wessex
    A typical inter-war semi built in their thousands for about £500. This exercise in property democracy however did not meet with great enthusiasm since folk had been used to renting and did not want to be responsible for maintenance. Welfarism has always been a problem here.

    Going to far-flung places where property is relatively cheap (Kent/Lancashire coast) is somewhat different to ABL's early mission using large central London hotels and town halls. Serving small isolated pockets of Catholics is now the order of the day and is an indication of how far things have deteriorated in the attempt to hang onto what is being lost. While I now regard the mainstream church with great indifference and the SSPX as one of many exploiters inside tradition, the building of new communities that are disillusioned with what they had before is very much like history repeating itself. Will they also end up like the earlier ones?  

    To paraphrase George Santayana:  "Those who refuse to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it."  Which is to say:  "In rationalism, out rationalism."  For some reason many Traditionalists cling to a sanitised sterilised rationalist version of Catholicism and then wonder why they are in a sterile dead-end that  only repeats itself like a broken record.  Until Catholics can admit that our religion is essentially something noble, aristocratic and more or less too good for this world, the same old factionalism will repeat again and again.  

    Filial piety means revering the Catholic heritage and then trying to live up to it, not keeping the fund-raisers busy.  Saints are born to the right parents, not made by the most rational educational technocrat with the most clever technique.  Time to get real about Catholic education.  Make the Mass the heart and soul of education and the world would soon be at our feet.

    Whereas half-hearted defeatism is always the fast road to nowhere.  Fortune favours the brave.


    Yes, my parents were horrified to see what had happened to their majestic faith when I once took them to a SSPX 'Mass centre'. If it has now dropped to suburban semi-detached status, are we to deduce that it will not be long before we return to using caves as troglodytes and marking our primitive presence on walls for future bemused archeologists to discover!      


    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #14 on: January 25, 2016, 10:17:21 AM »
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  • Wessex, I know you're complaining that they're not going for "downtown London" anymore, but honestly! The Resistance is in the right. But unfortunately the position goes very much against the World, and so the numbers (and, consequently, available resources) are very small.

    It isn't a question of "choosing" a humble residential chapel over a cathedral. Do you really think they have a choice of the two? Like they're just letting their $5 million dollars "chill" while they hang out at a suburban residence for Mass?

    Give me a break!

    The Resistance is doing all it can, and in my opinion they are doing very much with very little.

    Most people aren't interested in the truth. Full stop. This limits our "successes" more than you can imagine. It's not that we're not apostolic, or being too exclusive, being a cult, etc.

    No, we're basic Catholics. We're traditional Catholics -- the Catholic Faith is inherently Traditional. And we're a particularly sane branch of Traditional Catholics (following the saintly +ABL's lead -- he grew the largest Trad organization because he attracted all kinds of SANE Catholics to him)

    While some criticize R&R for being "have your cake and eat it too" or "sitting on the fence", I call it the golden mean between AND ABOVE the two extremes of Conciliarism and Sedevacantism/Church-vacantism/home-aloneism. I also call it eminently Catholic. Does it leave an element of mystery? Of course! But to me, that's why it's true. Any solution leaving out any mystery in this Crisis is obviously false.

    I don't mean to get into a Sede vs. R&R debate; I'm just pointing out that the classic SSPX or ABL position is a very good one. And that is the position represented by the small number of Resistance chapels around the world today. But they are still small, because the world is always on the prowl, trying to win over (or partially win over) Traditional Catholics one by one.

    (As an aside, Virtue is not "between" the two vicious extremes, but between AND ABOVE, as I learned in my 1st year Ascetical & Mystical Theology class. For example, superstition is an excess of Faith and apostasy is a deficiency of Faith. So would the "virtuous middle" be to be superstitious sometimes and incredulous sometimes? No, the virtue of Faith is in between but also ABOVE the two distorted extremes.)

    So if we have small numbers, it isn't necessarily our fault. People don't want to think, talk about, or discuss what's going on in the SSPX or in the Church. People don't want to be marked "weirdos" for believing in any sort of conspiracy, even though it's eminently provable and reasonable that some men have convened (and are convening) for various secret evil plans.
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