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Author Topic: New priest in Boston, KY  (Read 9385 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Re: New priest in Boston, KY
« Reply #45 on: July 26, 2018, 07:20:01 PM »
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  • I know the FSSP are ordained by NO bishops: in the Traditional Rite.

    I guess you're suggesting the Traditional Rite is not a valid ordination when performed by a NO bishop?

    I do not subscribe to that point of view.
    If the NO bishop is a bishop, then you're fine. If he's not a bishop, it doesn't matter what he says or does.
    Many Trads have serious issues with the new Rite of ordination and the new Rite of consecration. That is why the old SSPX used to conditionally ordain priests coming in from the Conciliar Church. They don't anymore...
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    Offline MaterDominici

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    Re: New priest in Boston, KY
    « Reply #46 on: July 26, 2018, 07:31:18 PM »
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  • If the NO bishop is a bishop, then you're fine. If he's not a bishop, it doesn't matter what he says or does.
    Many Trads have serious issues with the new Rite of ordination and the new Rite of consecration. That is why the old SSPX used to conditionally ordain priests coming in from the Conciliar Church. They don't anymore...
    Some think there are bigger problems with the rite of consecration than there are with the rite of ordination. Whether you agree or not, this is the reason Fr. Pfeiffer acted out a conditional ordination by the person he's effectively hired to act as a bishop. Fr. Poisson would have probably been less controversial sticking with his FSSP ordination rather than decimating his reputation by officially working with the fraud Moran.
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson


    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: New priest in Boston, KY
    « Reply #47 on: July 26, 2018, 09:13:05 PM »
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  • Some think there are bigger problems with the rite of consecration than there are with the rite of ordination. Whether you agree or not, this is the reason Fr. Pfeiffer acted out a conditional ordination by the person he's effectively hired to act as a bishop. Fr. Poisson would have probably been less controversial sticking with his FSSP ordination rather than decimating his reputation by officially working with the fraud Moran.
    True.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: New priest in Boston, KY
    « Reply #48 on: July 26, 2018, 10:19:01 PM »
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  • The Modernists always attack “the jugular” when they can.  Elect quasi-heretic popes, promote a doubtful mass, consecrate doubtful bishops through doubtful new rites, teach seminarians false and mass-invalidating theology - the Modernists have accomplished as much as can be done, humanly speaking, to destroy Catholicism.  The doubtful bishop rites are a big problem.

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: New priest in Boston, KY
    « Reply #49 on: July 26, 2018, 10:37:25 PM »
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  • Some think there are bigger problems with the rite of consecration than there are with the rite of ordination. Whether you agree or not, this is the reason Fr. Pfeiffer acted out a conditional ordaination by the person he's effectively hired to act as a bishop. Fr. Poisson would have probably been less controversial sticking with his FSSP ordination rather than decimating his reputation by officially working with the fraud Moran.
    Lord have mercy. What a hornet's nest!
    Lord have mercy.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: New priest in Boston, KY
    « Reply #50 on: July 26, 2018, 11:55:34 PM »
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  • .
    According to Fr. Pfeiffer, +W and the 3 bishops he consecrated are bent on starving OLMC out by refusing them blessed oils, Confirmations and Ordinations. It seems to follow then that if he wants a conditional re-ordination he would be refused that as well, which is why he would need to look elsewhere. They keep saying "God will provide," but they're running out of time. Maybe God is waiting for Fr. P to give the Amateur Exorcist the boot; why he doesn't, might have something to do with money.
    .
    From the perspective of outside OLMC, however, going to Ambrose-Moran is not a solution but just another problem.
    .
    According to +W and the other 3 he consecrated, the formation seminarians at Pfeifferville are getting is not adequate for the priesthood, which is why they are not willing to support them with oils, Confirmations and Orders.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: New priest in Boston, KY
    « Reply #51 on: July 27, 2018, 08:39:05 AM »
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  • .
    According to Fr. Pfeiffer, +W and the 3 bishops he consecrated are bent on starving OLMC out by refusing them blessed oils, Confirmations and Ordinations. It seems to follow then that if he wants a conditional re-ordination he would be refused that as well, which is why he would need to look elsewhere. They keep saying "God will provide," but they're running out of time. Maybe God is waiting for Fr. P to give the Amateur Exorcist the boot; why he doesn't, might have something to do with money.
    .
    From the perspective of outside OLMC, however, going to Ambrose-Moran is not a solution but just another problem.
    .
    According to +W and the other 3 he consecrated, the formation seminarians at Pfeifferville are getting is not adequate for the priesthood, which is why they are not willing to support them with oils, Confirmations and Orders.

    While I wouldn't confer Orders, I'd have no real problem with Confirmations and oils (such as for Extreme Unction).  I wouldn't have the faithful be punished on account of the cult leaders.  And the Confirmations and Orders have little to do with the quality of their seminary.  I think it has to do with the fact that Father Pfeiffer keeps publicly attacking Bishop Williamson.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: New priest in Boston, KY
    « Reply #52 on: July 27, 2018, 08:43:48 AM »
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  • If the NO bishop is a bishop, then you're fine. If he's not a bishop, it doesn't matter what he says or does.
    Many Trads have serious issues with the new Rite of ordination and the new Rite of consecration. That is why the old SSPX used to conditionally ordain priests coming in from the Conciliar Church. They don't anymore...

    Father Casavantes, who used to work with the SSPX, had been ordained personally by JP2 in Rome.  He himself didn't have any doubts about the validity of the orders, but said that he wanted to be conditionally ordained so that the faithful could be at peace, and the SSPX had insisted on it also for that reason.  I always found that hilarious, that a priest ordained by John Paul II himself was conditionally ordained.  Father Casavantes eventually went over to the FSSP and is still there.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: New priest in Boston, KY
    « Reply #53 on: July 27, 2018, 08:52:37 AM »
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  • And this is another interesting angle on the SSPX regularization.

    Here are the FSSP priests in the USA ... about 97.  I guess that the SSPX has about half of that, no?  (I've actually lost count.)
    https://fssp.com/new-priest-assignments-announced/

    Once the SSPX is "regularized" and they start intermingling with Novus Ordo motu types priests as well as with the FSSP, then what's the difference if the faithful attend an SSPX chapel or an FSSP chapel?  At that point, will the SSPX merge with or be absorbed by the FSSP?  They'd both then be competing for the same market share.  So the faithful would in effect be having to chose between Kellogg's Raisin Bran cereal and Post Raisin Bran.  At the end of the day, they'll just pick based on which chapel is closer and/or possibly which priest(s) they like better.  At that point, the group with the most chapels will win out over time.

    Offline JPaul

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    Re: New priest in Boston, KY
    « Reply #54 on: July 27, 2018, 09:08:31 AM »
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  • While I wouldn't confer Orders, I'd have no real problem with Confirmations and oils (such as for Extreme Unction).  I wouldn't have the faithful be punished on account of the cult leaders.  And the Confirmations and Orders have little to do with the quality of their seminary.  I think it has to do with the fact that Father Pfeiffer keeps publicly attacking Bishop Williamson.
    That is a reasonable position to take, it does go to show that there is more going on here than what is said. It would seem that the refusal of all spiritual goods has the purpose of separating those who are left who still have faith in Father Pfeiffer's efforts, from him and driving them to the other "resistance" chapels.
    Anyway, if you want to suss out what happened , you have to go back to the beginning, when +W was still in England and Father Pfeiffer was pleading with him to step forward and commit to leading a resistance movement. It is there that the truth is likely to be found before this became a matter of one man's word against another's

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: New priest in Boston, KY
    « Reply #55 on: July 27, 2018, 09:43:44 AM »
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  • According to +W and the other 3 he consecrated, the formation seminarians at Pfeifferville are getting is not adequate for the priesthood, which is why they are not willing to support them with oils, Confirmations and Orders.

    Whoah there. You're putting words into the bishop's mouth and/or assuming things you shouldn't assume.

    Here are some things to consider, as a more plausible alternate explanation:

    1. +W isn't ordaining them because the seminary is a joke. Fr. Pfeiffer wouldn't implement the measures necessary (listed by +Williamson) to make it into a real seminary. Fr. Pfeiffer wouldn't consent to being "under" +Williamson -- so you can't be surprised if +W won't ordain the seminarians.
    2. As for the other sacraments, +Williamson has in the past gone out of his way to provide Confirmations a short drive from Boston, KY, so as not to suggest he approves of that sinkhole of scandal, or associate himself in any way with it!
    3. Bishop Williamson has been soundly attacked in countless ways by Fr. Pfeiffer & Co. They shouldn't even *want* his Confirmations or his Holy Oils. They have soundly rejected him as a bishop. Why should the bishop feel guilty by not "taking care of" such a group? They want nothing to do with him; +W is just giving them what they want!


    No one has a "right" to the priesthood. And a bishop (sacrament dispenser OR classic bishop with jurisdiction) will answer to God for every man he ordains to the priesthood. It's the bishop's job to make sure the candidate is worthy: adequately trained both spiritually and mentally to be adequate for the task. +Williamson didn't find an adequate program of spiritual OR intellectual formation at the Boston "seminary".
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    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: New priest in Boston, KY
    « Reply #56 on: July 27, 2018, 11:24:05 AM »
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  • The Pfeiffer forum is making accusations of calumny for what is being said of Fr Poisson, and I can’t see how anyone can reasonably argue against the charge:

    Speculation and rash judgment regarding his moral character is all I see in this thread.

    Would it really have been so hard to wait for the grand jury report, which is soon to be made public?

    For my own part, I am only voicing my concerns regarding the report of an extremely dubious conditional ordination by Mr. Ambrose Moran.

    The moral discussion should have waited until the report was made public (unless there is some other concrete and credible evidence to support the accusations being made against this priest).

    When and if that should transpire, I will hop on the bandwagon, but not before.

    To make such accusations without any evidence better than “he was in PA” and “since Pfeiffer has expressed willingness to associate with those accused and/or convicted of grave moral offenses, it must be true in the present case too” is itself surely gravely rash matter.

    And for the record, I am neither Smedley, Fanny, nor any of the other names mentioned on the Pfeiffer forum.

    They have a point about the premature accusations constituting calumny, possible slander, and the textbook definition of rash judgment.

    Mr. X,

    We weren't born yesterday.

    Pfeifferville has a long and ugly history.  This apostolate went off the rails in 2012 at the time it was conceived.
    And the founders are quite suspect.  One being an exorcist fraud, who opened himself up to demonic possession.
    A textbook case: "The devil IN Mr. Hernandez"



    You come on here citing cries of calumny from the Pfeiffer "propaganda-blogs". But they fall on deaf ears.

    There are no good fruits coming from the Pfeiffer farm. Everyone from there has been tainted.

    The Pfieffer apostolate has broken-up families, ripped and confused the works of our legitimate trad resistance.
    Just as it was designed to do.

    It's very clear now. Hernandez/Pfeiffer are gathering a stable of priests with a cloud a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ scandal about them.

    And Fr. Poisson knew this.  He's had years to come up to speed on the Hernandez/Pfeiffer debacle.

    Fr. Poisson wasn't born yesterday either.

    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline X

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    Re: New priest in Boston, KY
    « Reply #57 on: July 27, 2018, 11:35:50 AM »
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  • Mr. X,

    We weren't born yesterday.

    Pfeifferville has a long and ugly history.  This apostolate went off the rails in 2012 at the time it was conceived.
    And the founders are quite suspect.  One being an exorcist fraud, who opened himself up to demonic possession.
    A textbook case: "The devil IN Mr. Hernandez"



    You come on here citing cries of calumny from the Pfeiffer "propaganda-blogs". But they fall on deaf ears.

    There are no good fruits coming from the Pfeiffer farm. Everyone from there has been tainted.

    The Pfieffer apostolate has broken-up families, ripped and confused the works of our legitimate trad resistance.
    Just as it was designed to do.

    It's very clear now. Hernandez/Pfeiffer are gathering a stable of priests with a cloud a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ scandal about them.

    And Fr. Poisson knew this.  He's had years to come up to speed on the Hernandez/Pfeiffer debacle.

    Fr. Poisson wasn't born yesterday either.
    Dear Sir-
    Because I want you to go to heaven, and do not therefore want to intensify your obstinacy, I will not argue with you.
    Maybe when you have some quiet time, you can focus your concentration on what I have said.
    Pax, friend.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: New priest in Boston, KY
    « Reply #58 on: July 27, 2018, 11:44:58 AM »
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  • Whoah there. You're putting words into the bishop's mouth and/or assuming things you shouldn't assume.

    Here are some things to consider, as a more plausible alternate explanation:

    1. +W isn't ordaining them because the seminary is a joke. [In other words, their formation is inadequate, which is what I said.] Fr. Pfeiffer wouldn't implement the measures necessary (listed by +Williamson) to make it into a real seminary. Fr. Pfeiffer wouldn't consent to being "under" +Williamson [See below] -- so you can't be surprised if +W won't ordain the seminarians.
    2. As for the other sacraments, +Williamson has in the past gone out of his way to provide Confirmations a short drive from Boston, KY, so as not to suggest he approves of that sinkhole of scandal, or associate himself in any way with it! [Probably the easiest way to avoid the "lay exorcist," too!]
    3. Bishop Williamson has been soundly attacked in countless ways by Fr. Pfeiffer & Co. They shouldn't even *want* his Confirmations or his Holy Oils. They have soundly rejected him as a bishop. Why should the bishop feel guilty by not "taking care of" such a group? They want nothing to do with him; +W is just giving them what they want! [See below again -- this is not the only case.]

    No one has a "right" to the priesthood. And a bishop (sacrament dispenser OR classic bishop with jurisdiction) will answer to God for every man he ordains to the priesthood. It's the bishop's job to make sure the candidate is worthy: adequately trained both spiritually and mentally to be adequate for the task. +Williamson didn't find an adequate program of spiritual OR intellectual formation at the Boston "seminary".
    .
    I don't claim to be the expert in this; the whole situation is complex and unseemly, a blight on the Traditional movement. 
    .
    I was making some observations based on what I've heard in the online sermons and conferences of Frs. Pfeiffer and Hewko, as well as the +W videos. They have a lot of good teaching to offer but then pops up these sore points of contention and disagreement. I know Catholics who are repulsed from Trad groups for this very reason; so overall, it has the effect of driving the youth away to Indult or FSSP or even Novus Ordo, where they can at least imagine that they "feel good." 
    .
    What's a bit alarming is to hear Fr. Pfeiffer say he has sent messages to +W at Broadstairs asking to meet him there, but +W responded that if Fr. P shows up, +W won't be available. Then he said he wants to sit down with +W and show him where he's wrong. Effectively, it pans out to Fr. P not wanting to be "under" +W because Fr. P wants to be "over" +W -- he wants to CORRECT the Bishop. As if he covets the episcopal rank. Then there would be two more bishops opposing each other, as if we don't already have enough of that. ("There will be bishops against bishops...") Can you imagine Fr. P getting so-called consecrated a bishop by Ambrose-Moran? Maybe that's in his long range plans... When A-M gets old and feeble, how would he do otherwise than help out the Priest who "saved" him?
    .
    As for Fr. Pfeiffer not wanting +W's oils or Confirmations, he has several times made clear that Roman Catholics should have nothing to do with Eastern rites -- with a vague reference to Eastern Orthodox, but he doesn't make that clear. With the hyperbole he is accustomed to, it certainly sounds like he has an abiding revulsion of everything Eastern. I have yet to hear him say anything positive about the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, for example. Then he turns around and tries to make excuses for the self-professed history of Ambrose-Moran, as if everyone should ignore all of Fr. P's denigration of the Eastern Rites. What I'm saying is, when he's critical of +W then expects +W to help him, it's not too different from him being critical of Eastern Rites then expecting Ambrose-Moran to help him. IOW it's not a matter of PRINCIPLE with Fr. P, so much a matter of his own consistent self-contradiction. 
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    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: New priest in Boston, KY
    « Reply #59 on: July 27, 2018, 11:46:11 AM »
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  • I do not hold the position that ordinations by a NO bishop are auto invalid.

    That's the traditio.com position, hence, he calls them presbyters.

    I hold the ABL position that the new rites are deficient displeasing, not auto invalid.

    It is still about Matter, Form, and Intent.