Author Topic: New Oakland Cathedral is slowly sinking  (Read 1622 times)

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Offline Incredulous

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New Oakland Cathedral is slowly sinking
« on: August 12, 2017, 06:51:03 PM »
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  • If you research the new Oakland Cathedral architect's design, selected by Bp. Allen Vigneron,
    it symbolizes the 3D shape of a female's genitals.  

    No joke.  This is from the occult " Vesica Pisces" Vesica Pisces


      "Christ the Light" Cathedral built in 2008


    But "God Is Not Mocked!"

    Now, the new cathedral, built with misappropriated school monies is Structurally Sinking within Less than Nine Years.

    Parts of the structure are being closed, the concrete foundation is cracking and the plumbing is falling apart.
    The drywalls and ceilings are cracking. Doors are misaligned and water is flowing into structures.

    And there are poor souls buried in the mausoleum's basement :facepalm:

    Built by the schismatic Church's gay-mafia: fraud, waste, chicanery and theft, have brought their just deserts.

    And was "Bishop Viggy" ever held accountable ?


    Nope, but he's got a new bishop's gig and is rubbing elbows with the rabbis in Detroit.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: New Oakland Cathedral is slowly sinking
    « Reply #1 on: August 12, 2017, 07:03:34 PM »
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  • Truth in architecture. Maybe it's just being honest.

    Hey, maybe it just feels trapped in female form; extension perhaps?
    "Lord, have mercy".


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: New Oakland Cathedral is slowly sinking
    « Reply #2 on: August 12, 2017, 07:29:16 PM »
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  • Truth in architecture. Maybe it's just being honest.

    Hey, maybe it just feels trapped in female form; extension perhaps?

    Yeah... I see what you mean.  We were trapped in a female's body... until we were born... right ?

    Uh, but... hey, what gender are you DZ ?

    Anyway... for everything, this is just another reason why the City of Oakland is cursed.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Re: New Oakland Cathedral is slowly sinking
    « Reply #3 on: August 12, 2017, 07:42:11 PM »
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  • This is the one thing I will credit the Episcopalians/Anglicans for, that they actually have good taste in architecture.

    Across the bay in SF, the Episcopalian cathedral

    The Catholic cathedral as a contrast.

    Léon Degrelle, santo subito

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: New Oakland Cathedral is slowly sinking
    « Reply #4 on: August 12, 2017, 07:44:06 PM »
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  • … which they also stole…
    This is the one thing I will credit the Episcopalians/Anglicans for, that they actually have good taste in architecture.

    Across the bay in SF, the Episcopalian cathedral

    The Catholic cathedral as a contrast.
    "Lord, have mercy".


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: New Oakland Cathedral is slowly sinking
    « Reply #5 on: August 12, 2017, 07:50:29 PM »
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  • I did a quick search and couldn't find anything on the cathedral having structural problems.
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    Source:  (from 2008 when the new cathedral was opening)
    http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/New-Oakland-cathedral-aims-to-unify-Catholics-3269410.php
    _________________________________________________

    The diocese designed the building and its mission with a broad sense of multiculturalism, from architectural elements to the name.

    The church will have Mass in the diocese's four most popular languages: English, Vietnamese, Spanish and Tagalog. There is a "healing garden," an outdoor sanctuary designed by and for those sexually abused by priests. Instead of naming the cathedral after a particular saint, a designation that might seem to favor one ethnic group, the diocese chose the neutral "Christ the Light" - a reference to the first lines of the magna carta [Lumen Gentium] of the Second Vatican Council, which ended in 1965 and began the era of modern Catholic multiculturalism.

    In addition to worship and community events, made possible by a conference center on site, the cathedral will be the hub of various ministries, such as medical and legal clinics for the poor, and more are envisioned.

    Building collective identity

    Yet the cathedral already finds itself struggling with the delicate balance between creating space for every community and the challenges of building collective identity.

    Parishioners have been told they will need permission to put flowers on the altar, and Filipinos have been told they can no longer sing "Our Father" in Tagalog, a revered tradition, said Priscilla Cardona, 60, a parish councilmember of the Parish of Christ the Light. And Vigneron said the Christ the Light parish's tradition of regularly bringing all ethnic communities together for a joint Mass, with a homily in English, might not continue at the cathedral.

    The challenges at the cathedral underscore a reality facing all Catholic communities, but particularly in places like a cosmopolitan cathedral, where many are asked to worship as one, said the Rev. Paul Fitzgerald, a Jesuit priest and professor of religious studies at Santa Clara University.

    "Fifty years ago, the way we dealt with multiculturalism was that we did Mass in Latin," he said. "Now that we put Mass in the vernacular, the community comes to different liturgies. The challenge of a community like that is to find ways for people of those different language groups to meet in significant ways on a regular basis, not just in terms of worship, but also socializing and making decisions together."

    Vatican II

    The history of the diocese embodies much of the dramatic changes in the Catholic church over the past half century.

    The diocese was separated from the Archdiocese of San Francisco in 1962, the same year as Vatican II, the revolutionary Catholic council that modernized the church in numerous ways. Among other things, Mass could be spoken in native languages instead of Latin.

    It was a movement toward modernity fully embraced by the then-cathedral community at St. Francis de Sales near downtown, according to retired Bishop John Cummins. Songs by the Beatles and stories by Shakespeare were mixed into the worship - at a time when such practices were unheard of. Scripture readings during Mass were sometimes performed as theater. And if you were a reader on Sunday, professors and priests would coach you on the previous Sunday, making sure you knew the full context and history.

    The worship at St. Francis de Sales was legendary, drawing up to 2,100 people every Sunday.
    "Parishes around the diocese were very influenced by the cathedral," said Cummins, adding that other diocesan parishes began changing their liturgy and music.

    Loma Prieta hits    ["Loma Prieta" was an earthquake]

    But then Loma Prieta struck in 1989. The St. Francis de Sales building was uninhabitable. St. Mary, a downtown parish the diocese was planning to close because of dwindling numbers, was instead kept open as a sanctuary for those from St. Francis de Sales, Cummins said. But only 250 people came to St. Mary from the former cathedral.

    Vigneron said the absence of a cathedral created "a decreased sense of ourselves as all the Catholics of the East Bay as one community of faith" - a critical part of Catholic identity.

    In recent years, other churches have also been merged into St. Mary because of declining numbers. Now, the Old St. Mary's Church at Eighth and Jefferson streets also holds the former parishes of St. Andrew and St. Joseph. It's the community that will form the base of the new parish at the Cathedral of Christ the Light.

    For the past three years, priests at Old St. Mary's have been giving sermons to encourage parishioners to follow them to the cathedral. But not everyone is sold.

    Some parishioners worry the intimate sense of community they've had will be lost in a cathedral seating 1,350. Others worry they won't be able to serve in the same way, such as helping prepare for Mass, and that they'll be treated the same as the half a million others in the diocese. 
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    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Re: New Oakland Cathedral is slowly sinking
    « Reply #6 on: August 12, 2017, 08:17:05 PM »
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  • What is it with California and hideous, hideous cathedrals?
    Léon Degrelle, santo subito

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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: New Oakland Cathedral is slowly sinking
    « Reply #8 on: August 12, 2017, 08:24:48 PM »
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  • .
    Correction -- Search was too quick -- there is a lawsuit in progress --
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    http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/07/17/oakland-cathedral-construction-flaws-at-center-of-diocese-lawsuit/
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    OAKLAND — Since it was completed in 2008, Oakland’s Cathedral of Christ the Light has been hailed as an architectural marvel, but the same design and construction that has drawn such praise is also at the center of a legal dispute over defects including cracking concrete, faulty plumbing and other flaws that have caused damage to the cathedral complex.

    The Catholic Cathedral Corporation of the East Bay, the incorporated owner of the cathedral, alleges in a complaint filed in the Superior Court of Alameda County that the companies involved in the design and construction of the cathedral complex — a $175 million project — were responsible for various “design and/or construction defects and damages.”

    The alleged flaws include tearing drywall throughout the chancery (church offices), damage to various doors and entries throughout the cathedral, cracking of concrete walls and walkways, and the misalignment of ceilings, walls and pipe hangers — all of which, the diocese says, is putting stress on the piping throughout the complex. Water intrusion has caused damage to the cathedral’s below-grade parking structure, the chancery kitchen, Parish Hall, chancery office and mechanical rooms, according to the complaint.

    The complaint was originally filed in August 2014 against builders and architects involved in the project, including architecture firm Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, Webcor Construction, Blue’s Roofing and Kendall-Heaton Associates, as well as a slew of subcontractors, designers, suppliers, builders and others it refers to as “Does 1-100” in the original lawsuit. Blue’s Roofing and Kendall-Heaton Associates declined to comment on the complaint. Skidmore, Owings & Merrill and Webcor did not respond to requests for comment.

    Several involved entities, including Webcor, filed cross-complaints, according to court documents. Webcor’s cross complaint alleges that its subcontractors should be responsible for fixing the damage if the court finds the diocese’s claim is valid. Some of those subcontractors subsequently filed cross-complaints invoking clauses in their contracts that they say indemnify them against claims like the lawsuit.

    A court-appointed special master has tentatively scheduled a mediation to occur among the parties involved in the lawsuit in late 2017 or early 2018, after “necessary information” has been gathered, according to a letter published in June on the Diocese of Oakland’s website by Vicar General George Mockel, who is also president of the Catholic Cathedral Corporation of the East Bay.

    A round of testing and inspection of Cathedral Center buildings was completed in December to uncover the reasons behind the water intrusion, sagging of building floors and the problems with doors and cracking drywall, Mockel said in his letter. Consultants and the other parties in the lawsuit are preparing more information at the request of the special master overseeing the mediation process.



    “We know this case is taking substantial time to develop, but construction cases generally take more time than other cases because of the extensive testing and evaluation processes that must happen and because a large number of companies were involved in the design and construction process,” Mockel explained in his letter. “The original architect and structural engineer have advised us the Cathedral Center buildings are safe for our employees, visitors and parishioners to occupy.”

    Helen Osman, interim director of communications for the diocese, said in an email to this news organization that the diocese began the legal action to ensure that the “responsible parties” pay to fix the damages but said the diocese does not yet know how much those damages will cost.

    The construction of the cathedral complex itself cost a hefty sum — a total of  $175 million by the time it was completed in 2008. At the start of the diocese’s “Reclaiming Christ’s Mission Together” capital campaign in 2015, the diocese had amassed $114.7 million in bond debt, in part from the construction of the cathedral and other costs.

    Initially planned in 2000, the cathedral broke ground in 2005. It replaced Oakland’s Cathedral of Saint Francis de Sales, which was damaged beyond repair in the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake.The cathedral drew some criticism during its construction for its steep cost and later for its modern design, but it also earned great praise, particularly in architecture circles.

    The November 2016 issue of the journal Architectural Record put the cathedral on a list of the most important works of architecture in the past 125 years — on par with works such as the Empire State Building in New York and Le Corbusier’s Ronchamp Chapel in France.

    Besides the cathedral building itself, the complex includes a mausoleum, along with a shop, an event center and the City Lights Cafe. A slew of events, concerts and tours are regularly held at the center.

    Vicar general Mockel’s June letter said one level of the parking garage will remain closed for the foreseeable future “to limit further deflection of the floor slab and future repair costs.”

    According to Osman, the diocese has completed a number of repairs already for safety reasons, including modifying fire doors to shut properly, clearing out obstructed fire sprinkler heads and making plumbing repairs she described as “temporary.”

    ______________________________________________________
    ---------- Temporary plumbing repairs? -----------
    FLASH! Maybe they should have checked popular opinion before bestowing architectural awards!
    ______________________________________________________

    • Dennis Neylon3 days ago
      It is a beautiful looking building -- though my garden shed looks as much like a church from the outside as this does. Apparently though, as often happens in modern architecture, form (appearance) is the primary goal, and function has come in at a very distant second place. Maybe they should bring back teaching about form following function in architecture school. They could also maybe discuss churches that look churches -- especially Catholic ones!


      Carolyn C4 days ago
      This is the best they can offer Our Almighty Father who created the earth, the mountains, the heavens, the flowers, the oceans? This hideous EYE-sore is what they offer Him? God have MERCY on those who do not ADORE, who do not LOVE and who do not TRUST IN YOU! From the prayer from the three Saints of Fatima who were shown hell.
    • .
      Among the "alleged flaws", they left out "UGLY" and "iconoclastic". The latter is actually an infallibly defined heresy. In 787 the seventh ecumenical council at Nicaea condemned iconoclasm. The Protestant Reformation--and the 1960s "fake spirit of vatican II" Modernists--resurrected it.
      But iconoclasm is a heresy, nonetheless.
    • .
      Looks like God has had it to here with ugly churches.
    • .
      Yeah... That's a pretty ugly church. I expect better from the Catholic Church.
    • .
      modern architect designers are simply void of behavioral comprehension. this building is a good example of the prioritized programmed photo-op design with spite toward the usefulness to the human occupant.
    • .
      That is one ugly building. Looks like a rack of lamb.
    • .
      Too bad we cant resurrect the architects of Notre Dame or Chartres. We would have a solid, well-built structure that's aesthetically pleasing as well.

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    • Honestly looks more like an art museum than a place where we worship the Lord of our lives. What ever happened to the Cathedrals built by our forefathers in Europe, the beauty has lasted centuries. Ten years from now people will think this is ugly and should be torn down so it can be replaced by an even more modern structure. What a waste of the faithfuls money. How can we expect God to bless an undertaking that shows no reverence for him. Will our leaders never learn. It is for God, not for man.
    • .
    • "Ten years from now people will think this is ugly and should be torn down..."

      I think it's ugly now. Here's a real Cathedral; Chartres France. It took 26 years to build starting in the late 12th century. The modern(ist) church doesn't have the faith or the grit to build something so spectacular. Neither do the French anymore which is why this will probably be a mosque in 50 years but that's another story.
    • I stand corrected, it is ugly when we compare it to those cathedrals of old when the bishops had faith in God rather than the world.
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    • Too many working in the trades that have no business being there. Carpenters who were painters the day before, landscapers the day before that and whatever was needed the day before that. I was first confronted with this situation in the DC while working on Sutton Towers in 1980. We were hoping Ronald Reagan would be the answer. He was for many things but not the answer we were looking for because 6 years later he signed the Simpson-Mazzoli Act into law giving legal status to 9 million criminal illegal aliens (Yes I know they said there were only 3 million. Just like there are only 9-11 million today.)
      Today with the sanctuaries of DC, Fairfax County, VA and Montgomery County, MD you've got a better chance of finding someone who speaks English in Tijuana than on a construction site in the DC metro area. Those who hire a contractor whose business office is under a shade tree next to the 7-eleven parking lot are the problem. And I sincerely hope their building falls down around them too.
    • .
    • I thought the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels here in L.A. was ugly, but WOW!, this one surpasses that by a mile. This type of architecture is a direct result of Vatican-II. Since the late 1960s, as a result of V-II, a vast majority of new Catholic churches are monstrosities like this and have no feeling of the majesty, glory, and history of the church.
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: New Oakland Cathedral is slowly sinking
    « Reply #9 on: August 12, 2017, 08:26:22 PM »
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  • http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/07/17/oakland-cathedral-construction-flaws-at-center-of-diocese-lawsuit/
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    Thanks, klags, I was presently copy-and-pasting when you posted that. The comments are frankly amazing.
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    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: New Oakland Cathedral is slowly sinking
    « Reply #10 on: August 12, 2017, 08:46:28 PM »
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  • Yeah... I see what you mean.  We were trapped in a female's body... until we were born... right ?

    Uh, but... hey, what gender are you DZ ?

    Anyway... for everything, this is just another reason why the City of Oakland is cursed.
    I'm "gender entropic" on "Taco Tuesday",  otherwise I'm a"gender nihilistic avatist" You may use the pronoun "Vxig" if my meds are current
    "Lord, have mercy".


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: New Oakland Cathedral is slowly sinking
    « Reply #11 on: August 12, 2017, 08:55:23 PM »
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  • What is it with California and hideous, hideous cathedrals?
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    It seems to me that Jewish synagogues were looking a lot like these cathedrals a long time already. So it seems that the Judaism creeping into Church theology is spilling out into the physical buildings, IMHO.
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    I've known a number of contractors and architects and even carpenters in Los Angeles who have made no secret of their reverence for Jewish style architecture, and when Our Lady of the Angels was being constructed downtown there was no shortage of admiration for its style and architectural details. I was shocked to hear that, and for the life of me I couldn't understand it. But it has persisted nonetheless. Really remarkable in its irony.
    .
    A recent addition to the lineup is the Orange County "Christ Cathedral" which is Robert H. Schuller's old Crystal Cathedral. I went to a Tallus Scholars concert there recently, my only visit so far, and I was amazed to find all the engraved granite walkway stones (looking like headstones in a graveyard, ironically) embedded in the sidewalks leading up to the building from the parking lot. The pavement in the parking lot is in bad repair, but the carved granite walkway stones are holding up just fine. The writing on the stones commemorates various donors who contributed money to Schuller's plant decades ago. They're Protestants making Protestant donations, now going to be part of the Orange County's main Cathedral landscape!! The glass-covered church structure is in need of extensive repairs, being in the salty coastal air -- there are rust stains bleeding through the paint in the steel tubing framework that supports the glass, which will no doubt cost millions to repair, and take years.
    .
    Then there are the cast bronze statues, about 1-1/8 scale (slightly larger than life) depicting a grinning Jesus in various settings. That sappy grin is just too much. They have a unique sculpture of the Holy Family, with Mary holding the Christ child while sitting on a donkey. Joseph and Mary have the expression of tourists at a carnival, waving "Hi" and the Child Jesus looks like a paid child movie actor flashing a big grin right on cue. 
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: New Oakland Cathedral is slowly sinking
    « Reply #12 on: August 15, 2017, 08:05:58 PM »
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  • I want to thank Incredulous for this thread. I've been able to talk to several friends since my first post above, and they hadn't heard anything about this sinking cathedral or the lawsuit. So this is news we should know about.

    The article mentions the recognition this structure has garnered from architecture critics, and includes mention of one other religious building (I hesitate to call it a chapel, as its name does), in France. Chartes Cathedral is also in France, but this is of a different order of building. I checked a website covering the architect's other works, and found a revealing description of the place: 

    Quote
     <-- That's an architectural model for exhibition.

         Chapelle Notre-Dame-du-Haut in Ronchamp, France
        (Chapel of Our Lady of the hilltop), Le Corbusier, 1954

    The chapel, perched high on a hill, probably receives more architectural pilgrims than religious pilgrims. The chapel is a working religious building and attracts 80,000 visitors each year. The nature of the site has similarities to the Acropolis in Athens, starting from the ascent at the bottom of the hill and ending at the chapel itself atop the hill.
          Chapelle Notre-Dame-du-Haut 
    The thick, curved walls and the vast upturned roof give the building a massive, sculptural form. Small, irregular windows in the thick walls give a dim light within the  building, along with further indirect light coming down the three light towers.
    I looked for interior photos that show a religious ceremony in progress and found none. Take that as you may, but two possibilities are that the sight of a service going on might take away from the mystique of the place when it's empty. Or, maybe those taking and posting photos have no interest in the function of the building or how it serves people who use it. Do you have any better idea? 

    Here are some other images of the place:

     
    A woman standing in front of the altar (notice, it does have a communion rail -- something practically unheard of these days).


    Not sure, but I suppose this could be the choir loft area.

     
    Someone is in a hurry to leave! You wouldn't think that empty space on the left is left without pews on purpose. I wonder if they ever set up folding chairs there when the crowd is really big?!

     
    The irregular windows are deliberately offset and unpredictable to instill a sense of tension or uncertainty, just short of a pile of shattered colored glass. The architect didn't want to get TOO graphic or obvious.

     
    Looking up inside one of the light towers which brings indirect lighting down into the worship space. Mahony's so-called cathedral in Los Angeles copied this concept.


     "Before" 
    (Don't miss the outdoors altar and the pulpit on the right, for outdoor Masses on the grassy knoll!!)
    (BTW -- notice that on the other side of the wall behind the altar is where the interior main altar is.)


    "After"
    That is, after the stark banality of the original exterior became unbearable so they had to jazz up the exterior with paint!


    This is the interior side chapel. The longstanding practice of side chapels was still expected in those days.
    They had to put the HVAC vent in the floor because there was nowhere else to put it (and hide it).

    Quote
    For his three sacred buildings, Le Corbusier has played masterfully with orientation, openings and textures to create kinetic architecture with daylight. His pilgrimage chapel at Ronchamp, the monastery of Sainte Marie de La Tourette, and the parish church of Saint-Pierre in Firminy reveal distinctive and individual approaches that each render contemplative spaces with light. In his book “Cosmos of Light: The Sacred Architecture of Le Corbusier,” Henry Plummer, Professor Emeritus at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, has analysed these projects with outstanding photographs taken over 40 years and brilliant writing.

    To see how he made this moving light pattern a feature of his design, go here.



    ...
    Initially planned in 2000, the cathedral broke ground in 2005. It replaced Oakland’s Cathedral of Saint Francis de Sales, which was damaged beyond repair in the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake.The cathedral drew some criticism during its construction for its steep cost and later for its modern design, but it also earned great praise, particularly in architecture circles.

    The November 2016 issue of the journal Architectural Record put the cathedral on a list of the most important works of architecture in the past 125 years — on par with works such as the Empire State Building in New York and Le Corbusier’s Ronchamp Chapel in France (Chapelle Notre-Dame-du-Haut).
    • .
    • I thought the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels here in L.A. was ugly, but WOW!, this one surpasses that by a mile. This type of architecture is a direct result of Vatican-II. Since the late 1960s, as a result of V-II, a vast majority of new Catholic churches are monstrosities like this and have no feeling of the majesty, glory, and history of the church.
    • .
    That last comment from a reader about the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels was interesting to see. Because it's design was inspired by Le Corbusier's Ronchamp Chapel in France (pictures of which see above). 
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    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: New Oakland Cathedral is slowly sinking
    « Reply #13 on: August 15, 2017, 08:24:41 PM »
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  • All it needs is a hookah huffing caterpillar…

    "One shill makes you wicked, another makes you bawl… go ask Francis…"
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: New Oakland Cathedral is slowly sinking
    « Reply #14 on: August 15, 2017, 08:28:19 PM »
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  • "the faith those fathers gave you, make you into Hell fall, go ask Francis…"
    "Lord, have mercy".

     

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