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Author Topic: OATH AGAINST MODERNISM  (Read 2761 times)

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Offline Magna opera Domini

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OATH AGAINST MODERNISM
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2012, 12:53:11 PM »
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  • The founder of the society which is now entrusted to the leadership of Bishop Fellay clearly distinguished between two churches, the false church of the council and the true church.  Archbishop Lefebvre, whose work has been entrusted to Bishop Fellay, called the occupants of the hierarchy of the conciliar church anti-Christs.  Clearly, the saint raised up by the Good God to protect and maintain the Faith, to keep alive the Bride of Christ, differs with Mr. McFarland as to where we can find the church.  

    However, Mr. McFarland is merely echoing what he heard Bishop Fellay say in his recent conference:

    "It is the church which gives this faith. The church is not something abstract.  It’s something very, very concrete, very real.  It has a head in Rome, the pope, it has bishops everywhere, the local bishop here, the hierarchy, that is the church.  This church which is appearing to us so deadly wounded, so full of errors, is at the same time, communicating this life to the souls who still want it.  The same church, these men of church, priests, bishops who are telling heresies, who are killing the soul, who are killing the faith, it is through them that Jesus continues to give the faith that saves, the grace that saves, that sanctifies.  You see it is about the same trial, it is so hard to accept that….. "

    Unthinkable, isn't it, that the Society finds itself lead by a mind so confused that what kills simultaneously gives life.  The mind that leads the Society no longer understands the principles that are the cause for its existence.  This recent conference by Bishop Fellay ought to be heard in its entirely because it demonstrates in a painful manner the confusion that has taken hold in the Bishop's mind.

    From where does this confusion come?  At least in part by spending too much time dialoging with anti-Christs.  

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    OATH AGAINST MODERNISM
    « Reply #16 on: September 08, 2012, 12:57:01 PM »
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  • Quote from: John McFarland
    Dear Neil Obstat,

    "That's what the disease, Modernism, does to your mind.
    One of its symptoms is you don't know that you're infected."

    What don't you call me a Samaritan demonic, child molester and wife beater while you're at it?  You have the same evidence for them.

    Anybody interested in refereeing a Pascendi Bee between NO and me?

    The definition of Modernist is not "taking issue with the convictions espoused by Neil Obstat."


    No, thanks. I don't have to lie. All I need to say is that you're a liberal:

    Liberals may scorn any set of ideas as a tyranny, but to hold any set of ideas to be a tyranny is still a major idea, and it is the one idea that drives the lives of zillions of liberals today, and of all too many Catholics. These should know better, but all of us moderns have the worship of liberty in our bloodstream.

    We're all subject to the effects of Modernism. It's part of our culture. That's the point.

    It's not a personal thing. The problem is that we are ALL under attack by diabolical
    disorientation. It's covering the earth.
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    OATH AGAINST MODERNISM
    « Reply #17 on: September 08, 2012, 01:16:49 PM »
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  • Quote from: Magna opera Domini
    The founder of the society which is now entrusted to the leadership of Bishop Fellay clearly distinguished between two churches, the false church of the council and the true church.  Archbishop Lefebvre, whose work has been entrusted to Bishop Fellay, called the occupants of the hierarchy of the conciliar church anti-Christs.  Clearly, the saint raised up by the Good God to protect and maintain the Faith, to keep alive the Bride of Christ, differs with Mr. McFarland as to where we can find the church.  

    However, Mr. McFarland is merely echoing what he heard Bishop Fellay say in his recent conference:

    "It is the church which gives this faith. The church is not something abstract.  It’s something very, very concrete, very real.  It has a head in Rome, the pope, it has bishops everywhere, the local bishop here, the hierarchy, that is the church.  This church which is appearing to us so deadly wounded, so full of errors, is at the same time, communicating this life to the souls who still want it.  The same church, these men of church, priests, bishops who are telling heresies, who are killing the soul, who are killing the faith, it is through them that Jesus continues to give the faith that saves, the grace that saves, that sanctifies. You see it is about the same trial, it is so hard to accept that….. "

    Unthinkable, isn't it, that the Society finds itself lead by a mind so confused that what kills simultaneously gives life.  The mind that leads the Society no longer understands the principles that are the cause for its existence.  This recent conference by Bishop Fellay ought to be heard in its entirely because it demonstrates in a painful manner the confusion that has taken hold in the Bishop's mind.

    From where does this confusion come?  At least in part by spending too much time dialoging with anti-Christs.  


    B16 effectively denies the principle of non-contradiction. +Fellay is learning well.

    What kills simultaneously gives life. The Church, so deadly wounded and full of
    errors, at the same time communicates life to souls who want it. The same men
    of church who are telling heresies and killing the soul, killing the faith, give the
    faith that saves, grace that saves, that sanctifies.

    Why didn't he also explain that the same bishop who leads the Society also
    destroys the society? Oh, wait, that wouldn't be very popular, would it?
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Incredulous

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    OATH AGAINST MODERNISM
    « Reply #18 on: September 08, 2012, 02:33:53 PM »
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  • Quote from: John McFarland

    "I've got to hand it to you, Incredulous, I would not be so gentle.

    Your example of calm, patient firmness is instructive."

    Ah, yes: calm, patient firmness in ducking the question (ignoratio elenchi in traditional informal logic).

    The Church.  Where is the Church?  On your account, nobody in the Vatican is part of the Church.  You and I can't be the basis of the Church.  Neither can Bp. Williamson.  Neither can Judas Fellay.  So where is it?  You know, the visible Church, with its pope and hierarchy.  Read all about in your catechism.  Then tell us where it is now.


    John,

      Of course, I don't have all the answers, but I'll to try respond to your question by referencing an excerpt the third paragraph from the Original Prayer to Saint Michael, by Pope Leo XIII, from the Roman Raccolta, July 23, 1988*

      "These most crafty enemies have filled and inebriated with gall and bitterness the Church, the spouse of the immaculate Lamb, and have laid impious hands on her most sacred possessions. In the Holy Place itself, where the See of Holy Peter and the Chair of Truth has been set up as the light of the world, they have raised the throne of their abomniable impiety, with the inquitous design that when the Pastor has been struck, the sheep may be."

    I've heard this interpreted as two thrones... one pope. So, the Pope is there.

    My question to you is:

    Why is the SSPX unilaterally attempting to unite itself to Vatican II's  "throne of abomniable impiety"?

    ____________________________________________________________

    PS You said "Judas Fellay".  Why John... your making progress!


    * Supplement approved July 31, 1902, London: Burnes, Oates &Washbourne Ltd., 1935, 12th edition.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline magdalena

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    OATH AGAINST MODERNISM
    « Reply #19 on: September 08, 2012, 10:15:07 PM »
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  • I'm sure one can find this in another place, but I just happened to locate it here:

    http://www.womenpriests.org/teaching/ratzing1.asp
     
    "In the year 1987, in the spirit of Vatican II, the Tridentine Profession of Faith and the oath against modernism were replaced by a brief and summary profession".  [Paragraph 3]  This is what I would suspect the authorities in Rome to demand of the neo-SSPX if they were to come to an "agreement".  
    But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
    Luke 10:42


    Offline Incredulous

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    OATH AGAINST MODERNISM
    « Reply #20 on: September 10, 2012, 01:30:30 PM »
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  • Quote from: John McFarland
    Incredulous,

    "Yet, in Bp. Fellay's CNS Menzingen interview, he coyly states that the Council docuмents were just misunderstood."

    This is a calm, patient untruth.

    The problem is that you (and Bp. Williamson for that matter) find the Judas Fellay myth so delicious that you're not about to pay any attention to the fact that Bp. Fellay has said in as many words that it ain't so, and the Declaration of the SSPX chapter spoke quite clearly of the errors of Vatican II, and made specific though diplomatic reference to some of the more egregious ones.  If it was all too subtle to you, it was not too subtle for the Vatican.



    John,

    In reference to my comment about Msgr. Fellay's coy statement,
    I take it you watched the CNS video, but you still disagree with me.

    Excerpt From Bp. Fellay's interview:[/


    “Many people have an understanding of the Council which is a wrong understanding.  And we have authorities in Rome who say it.  We may say in the discussions (SSPX/Rome discussions) we see many things which we would have condemned, as being from the Council, are, in fact, not from the Council, but the common understanding of it.”

    In straight English... please tell us what this means?[/color]
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Incredulous

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    OATH AGAINST MODERNISM
    « Reply #21 on: September 10, 2012, 02:53:40 PM »
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  • Forgot this one:


    Bp. Fellay's CNS interview:

    “We condemned things from the Council, which the Council was not guilty of promulgating in the first place. We misunderstood the real motives of the Council, and that misunderstanding has become a part of popular traditional Catholic lore.”

    What sayest thou John ?
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi