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Author Topic: NeoSSPX Says Mass in Modernist Rome  (Read 4050 times)

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Offline Seraphina

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Re: Mass in Colle Op, neoSSPX, August 20, 2025
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2025, 05:00:24 PM »
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  • Fr. P preached August 20, 2025 Colle Op. in 5 languages.
    Here is a summary of the French part.
    *******
     Fr. Davide Pagliarani's  Sermon, Aug. 20, 2025 AD.

    Jubilee Pilgrimage.

    Summary of the sermon.

        A special grace to be here today.
        He thanks all those who contributed to organize the Pilgrimage. And families who came from far away, what courage; their children will always remember this special grace.

        So why is our presence today so important? what reason?
    Rome is a city of martyrs. Providence has it that we have Mass  so close 
    I’m not sure how it is “a special grace?” 
    If to gain graces from V2 Rome?  None are gained.
    If to stand in opposition to V2 Rome in favor of return to Eternal Rome, then God does indeed grant graces. Neo-SSPX ‘splainers with pure intent (only God knows), those conscious of double intent, no grace. 
    As usual, the ambiguity of Modernism shows itself by sophistry, words whose meaning is unclear, interpreted according the desires of the individual hearer. 

    Offline trento

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    Re: NeoSSPX Says Mass in Modernist Rome
    « Reply #16 on: August 23, 2025, 01:37:30 AM »
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  • It is very sad if this is your belief, are you resistance or part of the NeoSSPX?

    First, let’s be clear: the words of +Archbishop Lefebvre are not “influencer commentary.” They are the unvarnished teaching of the founder of the SSPX on the crisis in the Church. He repeatedly warned that Rome was in apostasy. Whether the SSPX chooses to ignore that reality today does not change the truth of his words.

    Second, yes, the Society has organized pilgrimages every 25 years, but the context matters. A pilgrimage is not an act of fidelity in itself. Walking into Rome, passing through Holy Doors, and celebrating Mass in conciliar basilicas under the authority of the apostate Vatican—especially after the 2012 Doctrinal Declaration—is not a statement of resistance; it is submission. External grandeur cannot redeem internal compromise.


     
    Those are Roman basilicas. Yes, they are under the control of the Modernists, but you are conflating things. We can still gain indulgences and graces from such pilgrimages.


    Offline Benedikt

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    Re: NeoSSPX Says Mass in Modernist Rome
    « Reply #17 on: August 23, 2025, 10:40:41 AM »
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  • Quote from: trento 2025-08-22, 11:37:30 PM
    Those are Roman basilicas. Yes, they are under the control of the Modernists, but you are conflating things. We can still gain indulgences and graces from such pilgrimages.
    Yes, they are Roman basilicas, but Archbishop Lefebvre already showed the difference in 1975: his pilgrimage was an act of resistance, coming just after his 1974 Declaration rejecting the “Rome of neo-Modernist and neo-Protestant tendencies” of Vatican II. He never marched under the blessing of Conciliar Rome. The Neo-SSPX’s 2025 pilgrimage, however, follows from Bishop Fellay’s 2012 Doctrinal Declaration, which submitted the Society to the authority of Vatican II Rome. The first was a testimony of resistance; the second is the fruit of submission.

    Was Archbishop Lefebvre’s pilgrimage a protest against Conciliar Rome, or was it participation with it? And what, then, is the Neo-SSPX’s?




    Offline Twice dyed

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    Re: NeoSSPX Says Mass in Modernist Rome
    « Reply #18 on: August 23, 2025, 11:32:16 AM »
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  • Yes, they are Roman basilicas, but Archbishop Lefebvre already showed the difference in 1975: his pilgrimage was an act of resistance, coming just after his 1974 Declaration rejecting the “Rome of neo-Modernist and neo-Protestant tendencies” of Vatican II. He never marched under ...
    The first was a testimony of resistance;

    Was Archbishop Lefebvre’s pilgrimage a protest against Conciliar Rome, or was it participation with it? And what, then, is the Neo-SSPX’s?
    NeoSspx announced their pilgrimage even before the Jubilee was announced by Rome...so they were going to have it anyway: did they know there was to be a Jubilee? of course! But registering with Roman authorities?...it don't look good...The optics would have been very suprising and positive if 8,000 NeoSspx  clergy/faithful simply processed to St. Peter's Square...who would stop them?  Then a speech or two to the world media about the Modernists/ Apostates controlling the Church - now that God would bless.
    That didn't happen, neoSspx submitted. 
    ****
    AI:
    Archbishop Lefebvre went to Rome in 1975 to participate in the Holy Year with the seminary of Ecône, but it was not to celebrate the tenth anniversary of the Second Vatican Council, which he criticized. His goal was to demonstrate his rejection of neo-modernist and neo-Protestant Rome, which he believed had corrupted the Church and the faith through post-conciliar reforms. He used this participation to affirm his fidelity to eternal Rome and his desire to continue his work of priestly formation, far removed from the new developments of the Council.
    ***
    Note: +Lefebvre's 1974 Declaration was still quite the news of the day, even in 1975. So his presence in Rome was just a manifestation of his hatred for all the things Vatican II was changing.
    Did he register with Vatican brass? Very probably NOT!








    La mesure de l'amour, c'est d'aimer sans mesure.
    The measure of love is to love without measure.
                                     St. Augustine (354 - 430 AD)

    Offline Benedikt

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    Re: NeoSSPX Says Mass in Modernist Rome
    « Reply #19 on: August 23, 2025, 11:48:03 AM »
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  • Quote from: Twice dyed 2025-08-23, 9:32:16 AM
    NeoSspx announced their pilgrimage even before the Jubilee was announced by Rome...so they were going to have it anyway: did they know there was to be a Jubilee? of course! But registering with Roman authorities?...it don't look good...The optics would have been very suprising and positive if 8,000 NeoSspx  clergy/faithful simply processed to St. Peter's Square...who would stop them?  Then a speech or two to the world media about the Modernists/ Apostates controlling the Church - now that God would bless.
    That didn't happen, neoSspx submitted.
    ****
    AI:
    Archbishop Lefebvre went to Rome in 1975 to participate in the Holy Year with the seminary of Ecône, but it was not to celebrate the tenth anniversary of the Second Vatican Council, which he criticized. His goal was to demonstrate his rejection of neo-modernist and neo-Protestant Rome, which he believed had corrupted the Church and the faith through post-conciliar reforms. He used this participation to affirm his fidelity to eternal Rome and his desire to continue his work of priestly formation, far removed from the new developments of the Council.
    ***
    Note: +Lefebvre's 1974 Declaration was still quite the news of the day, even in 1975. So his presence in Rome was just a manifestation of his hatred for all the things Vatican II was changing.
    Did he register with Vatican brass? Very probably NOT!
    I am sorry, but the claim that the Neo-SSPX announced their pilgrimage before the Vatican declared the Jubilee is factually incorrect. The Holy See published the decree outlining the Holy Year 2025 and the conditions for obtaining Jubilee indulgences on May 13, 2024 (fsspx.news). The Neo-SSPX then organized their pilgrimage for August 19 to 21, 2025, publicly aligning it with the official Jubilee. By registering with Vatican authorities and following the rules to obtain indulgences, the Neo-SSPX submitted to the authority of Conciliar Rome, participating in a system it claims to oppose.

    +Archbishop Lefebvre’s pilgrimage in 1975 could not be more different. In November 1974, he issued his Declaration:

    “We refuse, on the other hand, and have always refused to follow the Rome of neo-Modernist and neo-Protestant tendencies which clearly manifested themselves in the Second Vatican Council and, after the Council, in all the reforms which issued from it.” (21 November 1974)

    His pilgrimage was an act of resistance, not submission. He almost certainly did not register with Vatican authorities, and he went to Rome to witness fidelity to Eternal Rome while rejecting Modernist Rome.

    The contrast is stark. The 1975 pilgrimage was protest. The 2025 pilgrimage is participation. Was +Lefebvre’s pilgrimage a testimony of resistance or cooperation? And what does that make the Neo-SSPX’s?




    Offline Twice dyed

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    Re: NeoSSPX Says Mass in Modernist Rome
    « Reply #20 on: August 23, 2025, 02:55:43 PM »
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  • I had read this and I didn't do my research...so you are right...sorrrry
    ****
    https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/is-the-sspx-pilgrimage-an-official

    What has SSPX said about it?

    The SSPX announced the pilgrimage in December 2024, just before the Jubilee Year officially opened.

    In a letter sent to friends and benefactors, U.S. district superior Fr. John Fullerton noted that 2025 marks the 50th anniversary of a pilgrimage that SSPX founder Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre led during the 1975 Holy Year, only five years after founding the Society.

    *****************
    Is it true that he celebrated the Tridentine Mass sometime somewhere at the Vatican, during his protest pilgrimage?  The link has the ENTIRE article  like a diary...

    Read the article and find out! Excerpt.
    ___________
    https://www.sspxasia.com/Docuмents/Archbishop-Lefebvre/Apologia/Vol_one/Chapter_6.htm

    The sermon which Mgr. Lefebvre preached in the Basilica of Maxentius on 25 May 1975 was published in The Remnant of 6 March 1976. It was entitled "The One True Religion."

    The One True Religion

    My dear brethren:

    If there is one day on which the Church's liturgy affirms our Faith, that day is the Feast of the Blessed Trinity. This morning, in the breviary which the priest formerly had to recite, he had to add to the psalms of Prime the Creed of St. Athanasius. This is the creed which affirms clearly, serenely, but perfectly, what we are bound to believe (...)Indeed, all our faith is summed up in our belief in the Most Holy Trinity and in Our Lord Jesus Christ, God made Man. The whole of our Creed, which we shall sing in a few minutes, is focused, as it were, on the very person of Our Lord Jesus Christ. He it is who is our God, He our Savior; it is through Him that we shall enter Heaven. He is the door of the sheep-fold, He is the Way, the Truth, the Life. There is no other name on earth by which we may be saved: the Gospels tell us all this.

    Therefore, when our Faith is being attacked from all sides we must hold steadfastly and firmly to it. We must never accept that there can be any compromise in the affirmation of our Faith. Herein, I think, (...) this tragic situation we are going through, lies in seeing that our Faith is no longer affirmed with certainty: that through a false ecuмenism we have, as it were, reached the point of putting all religions on the same footing, of granting what is called "equal rights" to all religions. This is a tragedy because it is all entirely contrary to the truth of the Church. We believe that Our Lord Jesus Christ is our God, our Savior, our Redeemer; we believe that the Catholic Church alone has the Truth, thus we draw the proper conclusions, by respecting in our personal lives the Religion which Our Lord Jesus Christ founded. (...)

    He it is who has given us the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, He who died upon the Cross. Already on the day of the Last (...)thus making priests of those to whom He gave the power to consecrate the Eucharist. He did this by His own Will, His Will as God, because Jesus Christ is God; He has, thus, given us the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, which we love so much, which is our life, our hope, and our salvation. This Sacrifice of Calvary cannot be transformed, the Sacrifice of the Last Supper cannot be transformed - for there was a Sacrifice at the Last Supper - we cannot transform this Sacrifice into a simple commemorative meal, a simple repast at which a memory is recalled, this is not possible. To do such a thing would be to destroy the whole of our Religion, to destroy the most precious thing which Our Lord has given us here on earth, the immaculate( ...)
    The Church is essentially priestly because she offers the redemptive Sacrifice which Our Lord made on Calvary, and which she renews upon our altars. For a true Catholic, one who is truly faithful to Our Lord Jesus Christ, anything which touches what He Himself established moves him to the very depths of his heart, for he loves it as the apple of his eye. So, if it comes, in any way, to the point of destroying from within what Our Lord Jesus Christ gave to us as the source of life, as the source of grace, then we suffer, we suffer dreadfully, and we demand absolutely that this spring, this fountain of life, this fountain of eternal life, this fountain of Grace be preserved for us whole and entire.

    And if such is true of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, it is also true of the Sacraments. It is not possible to make any considerable changes in the Sacraments without destroying them, without running the risk of rendering them invalid, and consequently without running the risk of drying up the grace, the supernatural and eternal life which they bring to us. It is again Our Lord Jesus Christ Himself who established the Sacraments; it is not for us, we are not the masters of the Sacraments: even the Sovereign Pontiff cannot change them. Without doubt he can make changes in the rites, in what is accidental in any Sacrament; but no Sovereign Pontiff can change the substance of a Sacrament, for that was established by Our Lord Jesus Christ. It is Our Lord Jesus Christ Himself who took such care in the founding of our holy Religion, Who left us directions as to what we must do, Who gave Himself to us in the Holy Eucharist through the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. What more could we ask? What other religion can lay claim to possess such a thing? And why? Because the only true religion is that of the Catholic Church.

    This is a matter of fundamental importance, fundamental for our behavior, fundamental for our religion, and fundamental also for the way we should behave towards those people who do not believe in our holy Religion. This is extremely important, because it is precisely towards those who do not believe, those who do not have our Faith, that we must have immense charity, the true charity. We must not deceive them by telling them that their religion is as good as ours - that is a lie, that is selfishness, that is not true charity. If we consider what profound riches have been given to us in this Religion of ours, then we should have the desire to make it known to others, and share these riches and not say to them: "But you already have all you need! There is no point in your joining us, your religion is as good as ours." See how this matter is one of paramount importance, for it is precisely such false ecuмenism which makes the adherents of all the other religions believe that they have certain means of salvation. Now this is false. Only the Catholic Religion, and only the Mystical Body of Christ, possesses the means of salvation. We cannot be saved without Jesus, and we cannot be saved without grace. "He who does not believe," said Our Lord, "will be condemned." We must believe in Our Lord Jesus Christ in order to be saved. "He who believes shall be saved; he who obeys My commandments shall have eternal life; he who eats My Flesh and drinks My Blood shall have eternal life." Here is what Our Lord taught us. Therefore, we should have a tremendous desire, a really tremendous desire, to communicate our Faith to others. And this is exactly what made the missionary spirit of the Church. If the strength, the certainty, of our faith is weakened, then the missionary spirit of the Church also diminishes, since it is no longer necessary to cross the seas, to cross the oceans, to go and preach the Gospel, for what is the good of it? Let us leave each man to his own religion, if that religion is going to save him.

    Therefore, we must hold fast to our Faith, we must adhere strictly to its affirmation, and we must not accept this false ecuмenism which makes all religions into sister-religions of Christianity, for they are nothing of the kind. It is very important to state this nowadays, because it is precisely this false ecuмenism which had too much influence after the Council. False ecuмenism is the reason why the seminaries are empty. Why is this so? Why are there no more vocations for the missionary orders? Precisely because young men no longer feel the need to make the Truth known to the whole world. They no longer feel the need to give themselves completely to Our Lord Jesus Christ simply because Our Lord Jesus Christ is the only Truth, the only Way, the only Life. What attracts the young to preach the Gospel is that they know they have the Truth. If vocations are withering away, it is due to this false ecuмenism. How we suffer at the thought that, in certain countries, people speak of "eucharistic hospitality," of "inter-communion" - as if one could give the Body and Blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ to those who do not believe in the Body and Blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ, consequently to those who do not adore the Holy Eucharist, because they do not believe in it! Without sacrilege, without blasphemy, the Body and Blood of Our Savior cannot be given to a person who denies His Real Presence in the Eucharist. On this point, therefore, we must have a firm and solid faith, a faith which does not compromise. This is entirely in keeping with the tradition of the Church.

    Thus the martyrs believed who lie buried everywhere in this basilica, and in all the churches of Rome, who suffered here in this forum of Augustus, who lived among pagans for three centuries and were persecuted as soon as they were known to be Christians. They were thrown into prison...our thoughts turn to the Mamertine prison, so close to us here, where Peter and Paul were put in chains because of their faith: And shall we be afraid to affirm our faith? We would not in that case be the true descendants of the martyrs, the true descendants of those Christians who shed their blood for Our Lord Jesus Christ in affirmation of their faith in Him. They, too, could indeed have said, "But, since all religions are of equal value, if I burn a little incense before an idol, what does that matter? My life will be saved." But they preferred to die, they preferred to be thrown to the beasts in the Colosseum, quite close to us here. So many, many martyrs were thrown to the beasts, rather than offer incense to pagan gods!

    So, may our presence here in Rome be an occasion for us to strengthen our faith, to have, if necessary, the souls of martyrs, the souls of witnesses (for a martyr is a witness), the souls of witnesses of Our Lord Jesus Christ, witnesses of the Church. Here is what I wish you, my most dear brethren, and in this we must be unflinching, whatever happens. We must never agree to diminish our faith; and if by misfortune it were to happen that those who ought to defend our Faith came to tell us to lessen or diminish it, then we must say: "NO." Saint Paul put this very well: "Though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema." Well, that, I think, sums up clearly what I wanted to say to you, so that when you return to your homes you may have the courage, the strength, despite difficulties, despite trials, to remain true to your Faith, come what may,  We must think on these things, (...)  because it is what Our Lord told us: "If we do not believe, we shall be condemned."

    La mesure de l'amour, c'est d'aimer sans mesure.
    The measure of love is to love without measure.
                                     St. Augustine (354 - 430 AD)

    Offline Michelle

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    Re: NeoSSPX Says Mass in Modernist Rome
    « Reply #21 on: August 23, 2025, 08:54:21 PM »
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  • I had read this and I didn't do my research...so you are right...sorrrry
    ****
    https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/is-the-sspx-pilgrimage-an-official

    What has SSPX said about it?

    The SSPX announced the pilgrimage in December 2024, just before the Jubilee Year officially opened.

    In a letter sent to friends and benefactors, U.S. district superior Fr. John Fullerton noted that 2025 marks the 50th anniversary of a pilgrimage that SSPX founder Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre led during the 1975 Holy Year, only five years after founding the Society.

    *****************
    Is it true that he celebrated the Tridentine Mass sometime somewhere at the Vatican, during his protest pilgrimage?  The link has the ENTIRE article  like a diary...

    Read the article and find out! Excerpt.
    ___________
    https://www.sspxasia.com/Docuмents/Archbishop-Lefebvre/Apologia/Vol_one/Chapter_6.htm

    The sermon which Mgr. Lefebvre preached in the Basilica of Maxentius on 25 May 1975 was published in The Remnant of 6 March 1976. It was entitled "The One True Religion."

    The One True Religion

    My dear brethren:

    If there is one day on which the Church's liturgy affirms our Faith, that day is the Feast of the Blessed Trinity. This morning, in the breviary which the priest formerly had to recite, he had to add to the psalms of Prime the Creed of St. Athanasius. This is the creed which affirms clearly, serenely, but perfectly, what we are bound to believe (...)Indeed, all our faith is summed up in our belief in the Most Holy Trinity and in Our Lord Jesus Christ, God made Man. The whole of our Creed, which we shall sing in a few minutes, is focused, as it were, on the very person of Our Lord Jesus Christ. He it is who is our God, He our Savior; it is through Him that we shall enter Heaven. He is the door of the sheep-fold, He is the Way, the Truth, the Life. There is no other name on earth by which we may be saved: the Gospels tell us all this.

    Therefore, when our Faith is being attacked from all sides we must hold steadfastly and firmly to it. We must never accept that there can be any compromise in the affirmation of our Faith. Herein, I think, (...) this tragic situation we are going through, lies in seeing that our Faith is no longer affirmed with certainty: that through a false ecuмenism we have, as it were, reached the point of putting all religions on the same footing, of granting what is called "equal rights" to all religions. This is a tragedy because it is all entirely contrary to the truth of the Church. We believe that Our Lord Jesus Christ is our God, our Savior, our Redeemer; we believe that the Catholic Church alone has the Truth, thus we draw the proper conclusions, by respecting in our personal lives the Religion which Our Lord Jesus Christ founded. (...)

    He it is who has given us the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, He who died upon the Cross. Already on the day of the Last (...)thus making priests of those to whom He gave the power to consecrate the Eucharist. He did this by His own Will, His Will as God, because Jesus Christ is God; He has, thus, given us the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, which we love so much, which is our life, our hope, and our salvation. This Sacrifice of Calvary cannot be transformed, the Sacrifice of the Last Supper cannot be transformed - for there was a Sacrifice at the Last Supper - we cannot transform this Sacrifice into a simple commemorative meal, a simple repast at which a memory is recalled, this is not possible. To do such a thing would be to destroy the whole of our Religion, to destroy the most precious thing which Our Lord has given us here on earth, the immaculate( ...)
    The Church is essentially priestly because she offers the redemptive Sacrifice which Our Lord made on Calvary, and which she renews upon our altars. For a true Catholic, one who is truly faithful to Our Lord Jesus Christ, anything which touches what He Himself established moves him to the very depths of his heart, for he loves it as the apple of his eye. So, if it comes, in any way, to the point of destroying from within what Our Lord Jesus Christ gave to us as the source of life, as the source of grace, then we suffer, we suffer dreadfully, and we demand absolutely that this spring, this fountain of life, this fountain of eternal life, this fountain of Grace be preserved for us whole and entire.

    And if such is true of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, it is also true of the Sacraments. It is not possible to make any considerable changes in the Sacraments without destroying them, without running the risk of rendering them invalid, and consequently without running the risk of drying up the grace, the supernatural and eternal life which they bring to us. It is again Our Lord Jesus Christ Himself who established the Sacraments; it is not for us, we are not the masters of the Sacraments: even the Sovereign Pontiff cannot change them. Without doubt he can make changes in the rites, in what is accidental in any Sacrament; but no Sovereign Pontiff can change the substance of a Sacrament, for that was established by Our Lord Jesus Christ. It is Our Lord Jesus Christ Himself who took such care in the founding of our holy Religion, Who left us directions as to what we must do, Who gave Himself to us in the Holy Eucharist through the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. What more could we ask? What other religion can lay claim to possess such a thing? And why? Because the only true religion is that of the Catholic Church.

    This is a matter of fundamental importance, fundamental for our behavior, fundamental for our religion, and fundamental also for the way we should behave towards those people who do not believe in our holy Religion. This is extremely important, because it is precisely towards those who do not believe, those who do not have our Faith, that we must have immense charity, the true charity. We must not deceive them by telling them that their religion is as good as ours - that is a lie, that is selfishness, that is not true charity. If we consider what profound riches have been given to us in this Religion of ours, then we should have the desire to make it known to others, and share these riches and not say to them: "But you already have all you need! There is no point in your joining us, your religion is as good as ours." See how this matter is one of paramount importance, for it is precisely such false ecuмenism which makes the adherents of all the other religions believe that they have certain means of salvation. Now this is false. Only the Catholic Religion, and only the Mystical Body of Christ, possesses the means of salvation. We cannot be saved without Jesus, and we cannot be saved without grace. "He who does not believe," said Our Lord, "will be condemned." We must believe in Our Lord Jesus Christ in order to be saved. "He who believes shall be saved; he who obeys My commandments shall have eternal life; he who eats My Flesh and drinks My Blood shall have eternal life." Here is what Our Lord taught us. Therefore, we should have a tremendous desire, a really tremendous desire, to communicate our Faith to others. And this is exactly what made the missionary spirit of the Church. If the strength, the certainty, of our faith is weakened, then the missionary spirit of the Church also diminishes, since it is no longer necessary to cross the seas, to cross the oceans, to go and preach the Gospel, for what is the good of it? Let us leave each man to his own religion, if that religion is going to save him.

    Therefore, we must hold fast to our Faith, we must adhere strictly to its affirmation, and we must not accept this false ecuмenism which makes all religions into sister-religions of Christianity, for they are nothing of the kind. It is very important to state this nowadays, because it is precisely this false ecuмenism which had too much influence after the Council. False ecuмenism is the reason why the seminaries are empty. Why is this so? Why are there no more vocations for the missionary orders? Precisely because young men no longer feel the need to make the Truth known to the whole world. They no longer feel the need to give themselves completely to Our Lord Jesus Christ simply because Our Lord Jesus Christ is the only Truth, the only Way, the only Life. What attracts the young to preach the Gospel is that they know they have the Truth. If vocations are withering away, it is due to this false ecuмenism. How we suffer at the thought that, in certain countries, people speak of "eucharistic hospitality," of "inter-communion" - as if one could give the Body and Blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ to those who do not believe in the Body and Blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ, consequently to those who do not adore the Holy Eucharist, because they do not believe in it! Without sacrilege, without blasphemy, the Body and Blood of Our Savior cannot be given to a person who denies His Real Presence in the Eucharist. On this point, therefore, we must have a firm and solid faith, a faith which does not compromise. This is entirely in keeping with the tradition of the Church.

    Thus the martyrs believed who lie buried everywhere in this basilica, and in all the churches of Rome, who suffered here in this forum of Augustus, who lived among pagans for three centuries and were persecuted as soon as they were known to be Christians. They were thrown into prison...our thoughts turn to the Mamertine prison, so close to us here, where Peter and Paul were put in chains because of their faith: And shall we be afraid to affirm our faith? We would not in that case be the true descendants of the martyrs, the true descendants of those Christians who shed their blood for Our Lord Jesus Christ in affirmation of their faith in Him. They, too, could indeed have said, "But, since all religions are of equal value, if I burn a little incense before an idol, what does that matter? My life will be saved." But they preferred to die, they preferred to be thrown to the beasts in the Colosseum, quite close to us here. So many, many martyrs were thrown to the beasts, rather than offer incense to pagan gods!

    So, may our presence here in Rome be an occasion for us to strengthen our faith, to have, if necessary, the souls of martyrs, the souls of witnesses (for a martyr is a witness), the souls of witnesses of Our Lord Jesus Christ, witnesses of the Church. Here is what I wish you, my most dear brethren, and in this we must be unflinching, whatever happens. We must never agree to diminish our faith; and if by misfortune it were to happen that those who ought to defend our Faith came to tell us to lessen or diminish it, then we must say: "NO." Saint Paul put this very well: "Though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema." Well, that, I think, sums up clearly what I wanted to say to you, so that when you return to your homes you may have the courage, the strength, despite difficulties, despite trials, to remain true to your Faith, come what may,  We must think on these things, (...)  because it is what Our Lord told us: "If we do not believe, we shall be condemned."
    It's always refreshing to hear the saintly Archbishops sermons.  They are gentle, firm in the faith and militant all at the same time.  This spirit has definitely diminished in the society in recent years.

    Offline trento

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    Re: NeoSSPX Says Mass in Modernist Rome
    « Reply #22 on: Yesterday at 09:17:18 AM »
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  • I had read this and I didn't do my research...so you are right...sorrrry
    ****
    https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/is-the-sspx-pilgrimage-an-official

    What has SSPX said about it?

    The SSPX announced the pilgrimage in December 2024, just before the Jubilee Year officially opened.

    In a letter sent to friends and benefactors, U.S. district superior Fr. John Fullerton noted that 2025 marks the 50th anniversary of a pilgrimage that SSPX founder Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre led during the 1975 Holy Year, only five years after founding the Society.

    *****************
    Is it true that he celebrated the Tridentine Mass sometime somewhere at the Vatican, during his protest pilgrimage?  The link has the ENTIRE article  like a diary...

    Read the article and find out! Excerpt.
    ___________
    https://www.sspxasia.com/Docuмents/Archbishop-Lefebvre/Apologia/Vol_one/Chapter_6.htm

    The sermon which Mgr. Lefebvre preached in the Basilica of Maxentius on 25 May 1975 was published in The Remnant of 6 March 1976. It was entitled "The One True Religion."

    The One True Religion

    My dear brethren:

    If there is one day on which the Church's liturgy affirms our Faith, that day is the Feast of the Blessed Trinity. This morning, in the breviary which the priest formerly had to recite, he had to add to the psalms of Prime the Creed of St. Athanasius. This is the creed which affirms clearly, serenely, but perfectly, what we are bound to believe (...)Indeed, all our faith is summed up in our belief in the Most Holy Trinity and in Our Lord Jesus Christ, God made Man. The whole of our Creed, which we shall sing in a few minutes, is focused, as it were, on the very person of Our Lord Jesus Christ. He it is who is our God, He our Savior; it is through Him that we shall enter Heaven. He is the door of the sheep-fold, He is the Way, the Truth, the Life. There is no other name on earth by which we may be saved: the Gospels tell us all this.

    Therefore, when our Faith is being attacked from all sides we must hold steadfastly and firmly to it. We must never accept that there can be any compromise in the affirmation of our Faith. Herein, I think, (...) this tragic situation we are going through, lies in seeing that our Faith is no longer affirmed with certainty: that through a false ecuмenism we have, as it were, reached the point of putting all religions on the same footing, of granting what is called "equal rights" to all religions. This is a tragedy because it is all entirely contrary to the truth of the Church. We believe that Our Lord Jesus Christ is our God, our Savior, our Redeemer; we believe that the Catholic Church alone has the Truth, thus we draw the proper conclusions, by respecting in our personal lives the Religion which Our Lord Jesus Christ founded. (...)

    He it is who has given us the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, He who died upon the Cross. Already on the day of the Last (...)thus making priests of those to whom He gave the power to consecrate the Eucharist. He did this by His own Will, His Will as God, because Jesus Christ is God; He has, thus, given us the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, which we love so much, which is our life, our hope, and our salvation. This Sacrifice of Calvary cannot be transformed, the Sacrifice of the Last Supper cannot be transformed - for there was a Sacrifice at the Last Supper - we cannot transform this Sacrifice into a simple commemorative meal, a simple repast at which a memory is recalled, this is not possible. To do such a thing would be to destroy the whole of our Religion, to destroy the most precious thing which Our Lord has given us here on earth, the immaculate( ...)
    The Church is essentially priestly because she offers the redemptive Sacrifice which Our Lord made on Calvary, and which she renews upon our altars. For a true Catholic, one who is truly faithful to Our Lord Jesus Christ, anything which touches what He Himself established moves him to the very depths of his heart, for he loves it as the apple of his eye. So, if it comes, in any way, to the point of destroying from within what Our Lord Jesus Christ gave to us as the source of life, as the source of grace, then we suffer, we suffer dreadfully, and we demand absolutely that this spring, this fountain of life, this fountain of eternal life, this fountain of Grace be preserved for us whole and entire.

    And if such is true of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, it is also true of the Sacraments. It is not possible to make any considerable changes in the Sacraments without destroying them, without running the risk of rendering them invalid, and consequently without running the risk of drying up the grace, the supernatural and eternal life which they bring to us. It is again Our Lord Jesus Christ Himself who established the Sacraments; it is not for us, we are not the masters of the Sacraments: even the Sovereign Pontiff cannot change them. Without doubt he can make changes in the rites, in what is accidental in any Sacrament; but no Sovereign Pontiff can change the substance of a Sacrament, for that was established by Our Lord Jesus Christ. It is Our Lord Jesus Christ Himself who took such care in the founding of our holy Religion, Who left us directions as to what we must do, Who gave Himself to us in the Holy Eucharist through the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. What more could we ask? What other religion can lay claim to possess such a thing? And why? Because the only true religion is that of the Catholic Church.

    This is a matter of fundamental importance, fundamental for our behavior, fundamental for our religion, and fundamental also for the way we should behave towards those people who do not believe in our holy Religion. This is extremely important, because it is precisely towards those who do not believe, those who do not have our Faith, that we must have immense charity, the true charity. We must not deceive them by telling them that their religion is as good as ours - that is a lie, that is selfishness, that is not true charity. If we consider what profound riches have been given to us in this Religion of ours, then we should have the desire to make it known to others, and share these riches and not say to them: "But you already have all you need! There is no point in your joining us, your religion is as good as ours." See how this matter is one of paramount importance, for it is precisely such false ecuмenism which makes the adherents of all the other religions believe that they have certain means of salvation. Now this is false. Only the Catholic Religion, and only the Mystical Body of Christ, possesses the means of salvation. We cannot be saved without Jesus, and we cannot be saved without grace. "He who does not believe," said Our Lord, "will be condemned." We must believe in Our Lord Jesus Christ in order to be saved. "He who believes shall be saved; he who obeys My commandments shall have eternal life; he who eats My Flesh and drinks My Blood shall have eternal life." Here is what Our Lord taught us. Therefore, we should have a tremendous desire, a really tremendous desire, to communicate our Faith to others. And this is exactly what made the missionary spirit of the Church. If the strength, the certainty, of our faith is weakened, then the missionary spirit of the Church also diminishes, since it is no longer necessary to cross the seas, to cross the oceans, to go and preach the Gospel, for what is the good of it? Let us leave each man to his own religion, if that religion is going to save him.

    Therefore, we must hold fast to our Faith, we must adhere strictly to its affirmation, and we must not accept this false ecuмenism which makes all religions into sister-religions of Christianity, for they are nothing of the kind. It is very important to state this nowadays, because it is precisely this false ecuмenism which had too much influence after the Council. False ecuмenism is the reason why the seminaries are empty. Why is this so? Why are there no more vocations for the missionary orders? Precisely because young men no longer feel the need to make the Truth known to the whole world. They no longer feel the need to give themselves completely to Our Lord Jesus Christ simply because Our Lord Jesus Christ is the only Truth, the only Way, the only Life. What attracts the young to preach the Gospel is that they know they have the Truth. If vocations are withering away, it is due to this false ecuмenism. How we suffer at the thought that, in certain countries, people speak of "eucharistic hospitality," of "inter-communion" - as if one could give the Body and Blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ to those who do not believe in the Body and Blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ, consequently to those who do not adore the Holy Eucharist, because they do not believe in it! Without sacrilege, without blasphemy, the Body and Blood of Our Savior cannot be given to a person who denies His Real Presence in the Eucharist. On this point, therefore, we must have a firm and solid faith, a faith which does not compromise. This is entirely in keeping with the tradition of the Church.

    Thus the martyrs believed who lie buried everywhere in this basilica, and in all the churches of Rome, who suffered here in this forum of Augustus, who lived among pagans for three centuries and were persecuted as soon as they were known to be Christians. They were thrown into prison...our thoughts turn to the Mamertine prison, so close to us here, where Peter and Paul were put in chains because of their faith: And shall we be afraid to affirm our faith? We would not in that case be the true descendants of the martyrs, the true descendants of those Christians who shed their blood for Our Lord Jesus Christ in affirmation of their faith in Him. They, too, could indeed have said, "But, since all religions are of equal value, if I burn a little incense before an idol, what does that matter? My life will be saved." But they preferred to die, they preferred to be thrown to the beasts in the Colosseum, quite close to us here. So many, many martyrs were thrown to the beasts, rather than offer incense to pagan gods!

    So, may our presence here in Rome be an occasion for us to strengthen our faith, to have, if necessary, the souls of martyrs, the souls of witnesses (for a martyr is a witness), the souls of witnesses of Our Lord Jesus Christ, witnesses of the Church. Here is what I wish you, my most dear brethren, and in this we must be unflinching, whatever happens. We must never agree to diminish our faith; and if by misfortune it were to happen that those who ought to defend our Faith came to tell us to lessen or diminish it, then we must say: "NO." Saint Paul put this very well: "Though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema." Well, that, I think, sums up clearly what I wanted to say to you, so that when you return to your homes you may have the courage, the strength, despite difficulties, despite trials, to remain true to your Faith, come what may,  We must think on these things, (...)  because it is what Our Lord told us: "If we do not believe, we shall be condemned."
    If the 1975 jubilee pilgrimage was a protest and done without Rome's knowledge, would ABL be allowed to celebrated Mass at a Roman basilica?


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: NeoSSPX Says Mass in Modernist Rome
    « Reply #23 on: Yesterday at 09:43:15 AM »
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  • If the 1975 jubilee pilgrimage was a protest and done without Rome's knowledge, would ABL be allowed to celebrated Mass at a Roman basilica?

    Hmm... 1975?   I'm sure there's record of +ABL's connected insider "person" who booked the Mass time for the SSPX.


    Otherwise, are you implying the jew-satanist, homo pope, Paul VI approved of +ABL's TLM in the Basilica?


         


    Another point about these TLM's offered on altars where the "The Great Sacrilege" desecration has occurred.

    Such de-sacralized altars need to be re-consecrated.



    I'm guessing your answer is?   "I don't want to go there."



    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Twice dyed

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    Re: NeoSSPX Says Mass in Modernist Rome
    « Reply #24 on: Yesterday at 11:13:55 AM »
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  • If the 1975 jubilee pilgrimage was a protest and done without Rome's knowledge, would ABL be allowed to celebrated Mass at a Roman basilica?
    Please excuse my s l o w  internet connection...
    1975 , May 9, FRATERNITY is "officially" no longer canonically approved. 
    From the book Apologia Pro,  Chapter 6, by Michael Davies.  On Youtube also. Two weeks later:
    *****
    https://www.sspxasia.com/Docuмents/Archbishop-Lefebvre/Apologia/Vol_one/Chapter_6.htm
    "... [N]othing like it had been seen before during this Holy Year, nothing like it will be seen again. It had not been the largest pilgrimage to come - although it would seem blasphemous to describe the group which had taken over St. Peter's exactly one week before as a pilgrimage. Indeed, the appearance in St. Peter's Basilica of about 9,000 charismatics, some of whom danced and some of whom gibbered, brings immediately to mind St. Matthew's warning concerning the 'abomination of desolation which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place.' Indeed, if the Mass concelebrated by Cardinal Suenens and five hundred Pentecostal priests was valid, then the passing of Hosts from hand to hand, to be broken in pieces by the congregation and offered even to tourists of any belief or none, was in truth an abomination!...

    "...The all-night vigil for this Pilgrimage was held in the Church of San Girolamo della Carità. Some of those who had been on previous traditionalist pilgrimages regretted the fact that it was not held in St. Peter’s square, and indeed those who have had the grace to take part in these vigils had good reason for doing so. However, the fact that this Pilgrimage was led by the Archbishop made it necessary to make its essentially religious character clear throughout - anything which could give the appearance of a demonstration or a confrontation had to be avoided. It is likely that the timing for the withdrawal of canonical approbation from the Society of St. Pius X was designed to provoke some form of violent or intemperate reaction during the Pilgrimage. There was no such incident; the dignity and restraint shown by all present was as remarkable as their fervor. It would, of course, be argued by the Liberal establishment that the celebration of the traditional Mass was in itself an act of provocation, hence the admonition in L'Osservatore Romano. But any Catholic, whatever his position or rank, who would consider the celebration of the traditional Mass 'provocative' has reached a stage where we can only say, 'God help and forgive him', and breathe a prayer on his behalf.

    During the all-night vigil, an unceasing stream of hymns and prayers was offered up to God, above all for the restoration to our altars of the traditional Mass, which was celebrated every two hours throughout the night by one of the priests present. One of the most impressive sights was the entry of the pilgrims into the indescribably beautiful Basilica of St. Paul's Without-the-Walls on Monday morning. The clergy of the Basilica gave their fullest cooperation and put every facility at the disposal of the pilgrims, including their loudspeaker equipment. As in all the basilicas, the three Paters, Aves, and Glorias necessary for gaining the indulgence were recited, and Credo was sung and the general atmosphere was such that it really did seem hard to believe that anything had changed since 1950 - that these fine young seminarians, who are the pride and joy of hundreds of thousands of the faithful, will never be ordained if the present 'parallel magisterium' has its way..."



    La mesure de l'amour, c'est d'aimer sans mesure.
    The measure of love is to love without measure.
                                     St. Augustine (354 - 430 AD)

    Offline Twice dyed

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    Re: NeoSSPX Says Mass in Modernist Rome
    « Reply #25 on: Yesterday at 12:39:04 PM »
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  • This is a link to "The Credo Pilgrimage", 1975 AD. , on YouTube SSPX...AUDIO.

    "Apologia pro Marcel Lefebvre", Vol.1, Chapter 6.
    It was posted just 10 months ago.

    La mesure de l'amour, c'est d'aimer sans mesure.
    The measure of love is to love without measure.
                                     St. Augustine (354 - 430 AD)


    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: NeoSSPX Says Mass in Modernist Rome
    « Reply #26 on: Yesterday at 05:04:09 PM »
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  • There are no more graces to be conferred by the SSPX, not even on a pilgrimage to Rome
    It is very sad if this is your belief, are you resistance or part of the NeoSSPX?
    Although this comment wasn’t originally directed at me, I’m going to answer it in a way that may resonate with others on CI.

    My answer is, “NO.”


    First, I AM not Resistance any more than I AM neo-SSPX, as if anyone can BE either.
    Second, I am not a MEMBER of the Resistance or a MEMBER of the neo-SSPX. There is no organized entity called the Resistance that a person may join.
     
    Elsewhere, you define Resistance as a specific set of beliefs to which one adheres, making one a MEMBER. Adhering to a set of beliefs, all of which can be interpreted in different ways by different people. Adhering to certain beliefs does not make one those beliefs, in other words, the beliefs do not constitute one’s being. Similarly, it is impossible to be a MEMBER of a set of beliefs. While one may agree with and promote the beliefs, agree with, support, and promote a person who promulgated those beliefs; none of these constitutes BEING or MEMBERSHIP.


    There is a fraternity, an organization, called The Priestly Fraternity of the Society of St. Pius X, established by Archbishop Marcel LeFebvre in 1970, Econe, Switzerland. The SSPX remains to this time, 2025, a recognizable organization with hierarchy, division of roles, statement of faith wherein beliefs are defined explicitly. There are rules of practice and a list of MEMBERS who adhere to those beliefs and roles. The MEMBERS of the SSPX are bishops, priests, brothers, sisters, teachers, and Third Orders.
    The SSPX provides Mass, Sacraments, elementary and high schools, a four year college offering a degree in liberal arts and a teacher training program to serve SSPX schools. In addition, the SSPX has seminaries, and is affiliated with a number of convents and monasteries for the service of religious sisters and brothers. There are three Third Orders, Carmelite, Franciscan, and Dominican for lay persons. The SSPX also gives retreats and publishes a magazine, The Angelus. The persons in these divisions who’ve committed to the Statement of Faith and Rules of Practice are MEMBERS of the SSPX.

    Non-members, persons from many locations and walks of life attend the Masses and receive Sacraments from the MEMBERS such as priests, sisters, brothers, and teachers of the SSPX. The numerous recipients of Mass, Sacraments, education, etc. are NOT MEMBERS OF THE SSPX.

    Let it also be stated that THERE IS NO SUCH ORGANIZATION TITLED THE “neo-SSPX.” When reference is made to the neo-SSPX, it is the term used by lay persons, former SSPX MEMBERS, and a few remaining MEMBERS who disagree with one or more aspects of a 2012 doctrinal statement of SSPX +Bishop Bernard Fellay.  Some of these persons call themselves and some, not all, “the Resistance.” Because “the Resistance” lacks those characteristics necessary to an ORGANIZATION, it is a loosely affiliated group split into smaller groups and individuals who oppose the SSPX in some manner.

    Unfortunately, humans are still subject to the stain of Original Sin, and divisions have formed between the SSPX ORGANIZATION and certain MEMBERS and laity concerning those who have left, loosely referred to as the “Resistance.” More significantly, yet greater contention has reared up among the “Resistance,” so-called. Small groups have formed that actively oppose one another concerning matters such as correct belief and practice with one group following a certain priest and other groups following others. There are disputes between the priests themselves causing people to choose “sides.” Yet others have decided to remain “home alone” shunning the SSPX, “Resistance” priests and followers, until such time as a satisfactory organization is formed to meet their religious and spiritual requirements.

    Such situations are nothing new to the Roman Catholic Church on earth. St. Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles encountered a parallel situation in the fledgling Church. While all Christian, the MEMBERS at Corinth were not getting along. Here is what St. Paul had to say about it.

    It is my earnest hope that those disturbed by like issues, SSPX, neo-SSPX, Resistance, those claiming others to be “the fake Resistance,” those staying “home alone” will look beyond these issues at the Church as a whole and to the salvation of souls.

    Read from the Holy Scriptures the words of St. Paul.

    Epistle to the Catholics of the Church at Corinth          (1 Cor. 1:11-15, 17, 20-21 Douay Rheims)


    11) For it hath been signified unto me, my brethren…that there are contentions among you.
    12) Now this I say that every one of you saith: I indeed am of Paul; and I am of Apollo; and I am of Cephas; and I of Christ.
    13) Is Christ divided? Was Paul then crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
    14) I give thanks, that I baptized none of you…
    15) Lest any should say that you were baptized in my name…
    17) For Christ sent me…to preach the gospel; not in wisdom of speech, lest the cross of Christ should be made void…
    20) Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputed of this world?
    21) For seeing in the wisdom of God…it pleased God…to save them that believe…”

    Let us remember the primary purpose of the Church, the Salvation of Souls.





    Offline FarmerWife

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    Re: NeoSSPX Says Mass in Modernist Rome
    « Reply #27 on: Yesterday at 05:25:48 PM »
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  • I was browsing their website on NFP and some of the links don't work for me.

    https://sspx.org/en/news/problem-natural-family-planning-4929 (works for me)

    https://sspx.org/en/nfp-unhappy-compromise

    https://sspx.org/en/danger-marital-love-and-fidelity-nfp

    If it turns out that the last two links aren't working for anyone, isn't that suspicious...

    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: NeoSSPX Says Mass in Modernist Rome
    « Reply #28 on: Yesterday at 06:01:26 PM »
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  • P.S. It wasn’t clear from my lengthy post that I am not a supporter of +Bp. Fellay’s 2012 declaration. I am not firmly in the R & R camp as the SSPX, either. Call me a Sededoubtist if there is such a thing. When the SSPX are the only Mass in town, I attend so long as I’m certain the priest is validly ordained or has been conditionally ordained if from the novus ordo. 
    I’m not going to “catch” modernism or feminism or a sudden love of V2 by occasional SSPX Mass or using an old school SSPX priest for Confession, Communion, and Last Rites for an elderly parent during the c-sickness. 

    Offline Twice dyed

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    Re: NeoSSPX Says Mass in Modernist Rome
    « Reply #29 on: Yesterday at 06:33:51 PM »
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  • I was browsing their website on NFP .

    https://sspx.org/en/nfp-unhappy-compromise

    https://sspx.org/en/danger-marital-love-and-fidelity-nfp

    These links worked for me...

    https://sspx.org/en/nfp-unhappy-compromise-30471

    http://www.sspxasia.com/Docuмents/SiSiNoNo/2002_November/marital_love_and_fidelity.htm

    Web sites are constantly evolving. 


    For example  Vatican lists the pilgrimage : Fraternity SSPX ,,  , 1P5 states something was altered.
    fraternità "Sponsi per Sempre" August 21, 2025.
    Loose translation: Marriage is forever. Somehow the site deleted a pilgrimage...

    https://www.iubilaeum2025.va/it/pellegrinaggio/calendario-giubileo/pellegrinaggi/pellegrinaggio-fraternita-sposi-per-sempre.html

    OnePeterFive (August 22) has an article about this which I don't understand.. btw. I can't read Italian.
    Does the Vatican want the world to forget  the neo-Sspx pilgrimage?
    La mesure de l'amour, c'est d'aimer sans mesure.
    The measure of love is to love without measure.
                                     St. Augustine (354 - 430 AD)