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I fully agree. I have always favored and preferred facts, hard data, proof, evidence, etc. whenever we can get it.

Unfortunately, we seem to be coming up short in this area. I don't know how many young men leave the SSPX seminary, or where they "hang out" online, if they use the Internet at all. I think we might be running into that phenomenon of the young person who is completely aloof from the Internet, or at least all forums and social media in the broadest definition. This group is larger than you think. I know of countless Trad Catholics IRL, who I couldn't stalk or read their posts online if I wanted to. And that assumes I'm not banned from any Trad forum and that anything on Facebook is public, even if you have to locate them by name (rather than using a search engine, which would make it easier).

In other words:

I know dozens of Trads under 40, or even under 30, who I couldn't "check up on" even if I searched for them on Facebook, and scoured ALL known Trad forums. How can so many Trads not need the company of other Trads? Seems messed up to me.

It would be like 3/4 of Trads being teetotalers and not keeping any alcohol in the house. My first thought would be: is alcoholism that rampant among Trads? It is always easier to completely abstain than to use with moderation. There are some good quotes along these lines. So therefore I have to wonder: why are Trads so particularly unable to balance forums and the Internet? Why do so many of them give up, saying it ruins/takes over their life, prevents them from taking care of their family, etc.? Lots of people manage to "drink responsibly" when it comes to the Internet, social media, and forums. Why are Trads so pathetic in this department?

Again, when I hear someone brag about how they go way over-and-above the norm to completely avoid something, really making themselves stand out, I think to myself "Good for you, that's an excellent way to deal with one's weakness. Give it up completely!"  Except for sin, of course. Abstaining from all sin, or all sin in a given area, shows strength, not weakness.

For example, if a man told me, "I don't even risk accidental glances at magazines by the checkout aisle or immodestly dressed customers. I'm so devoted to avoiding immorality that I pay extra so all my groceries are delivered to me." 

Wouldn't you think that person is ABOVE-AVERAGE weak against sins and temptations of the flesh? I would. Because he's going out of his way, way over-and-above what is normal, to avoid a particular sin.

Likewise, if a man bragged that he "didn't keep any alcohol in the house, on principle" I would assume he had a "past" of alcohol abuse. Why else would he ban alcohol "on principle" considering it's not sinful in itself, and the Catholic Faith doesn't forbid its use?

I know what you're thinking: the Saints went over and above, to heroic heights, to avoid all sins. They stood out. HOWEVER, they were conspicuous in avoiding *all sins* not just one sin. For example, the man who brags about the lengths he goes to avoid (scrupulous non-sin) accidental glances at magazines? He's actually bragging and committing sins of pride. Saints wouldn't do this. And how is that grocery delivery service patron doing with all the OTHER sins that could send him to Hell? Pride? Anger? Lack of charity? Sins of the tongue? How is his prayer life?

I often think it would've been better if you left me banned from the forum

I spend too much time here. On the other hand I've learnt a lot of important things.

I

I fully agree. I have always favored and preferred facts, hard data, proof, evidence, etc. whenever we can get it.

Unfortunately, we seem to be coming up short in this area. I don't know how many young men leave the SSPX seminary, or where they "hang out" online, if they use the Internet at all. I think we might be running into that phenomenon of the young person who is completely aloof from the Internet, or at least all forums and social media in the broadest definition. This group is larger than you think. I know of countless Trad Catholics IRL, who I couldn't stalk or read their posts online if I wanted to. And that assumes I'm not banned from any Trad forum and that anything on Facebook is public, even if you have to locate them by name (rather than using a search engine, which would make it easier).

In other words:

I know dozens of Trads under 40, or even under 30, who I couldn't "check up on" even if I searched for them on Facebook, and scoured ALL known Trad forums. How can so many Trads not need the company of other Trads? Seems messed up to me.

It would be like 3/4 of Trads being teetotalers and not keeping any alcohol in the house. My first thought would be: is alcoholism that rampant among Trads? It is always easier to completely abstain than to use with moderation. There are some good quotes along these lines. So therefore I have to wonder: why are Trads so particularly unable to balance forums and the Internet? Why do so many of them give up, saying it ruins/takes over their life, prevents them from taking care of their family, etc.? Lots of people manage to "drink responsibly" when it comes to the Internet, social media, and forums. Why are Trads so pathetic in this department?

Again, when I hear someone brag about how they go way over-and-above the norm to completely avoid something, really making themselves stand out, I think to myself "Good for you, that's an excellent way to deal with one's weakness. Give it up completely!"  Except for sin, of course. Abstaining from all sin, or all sin in a given area, shows strength, not weakness.

For example, if a man told me, "I don't even risk accidental glances at magazines by the checkout aisle or immodestly dressed customers. I'm so devoted to avoiding immorality that I pay extra so all my groceries are delivered to me." 

Wouldn't you think that person is ABOVE-AVERAGE weak against sins and temptations of the flesh? I would. Because he's going out of his way, way over-and-above what is normal, to avoid a particular sin.

Likewise, if a man bragged that he "didn't keep any alcohol in the house, on principle" I would assume he had a "past" of alcohol abuse. Why else would he ban alcohol "on principle" considering it's not sinful in itself, and the Catholic Faith doesn't forbid its use?

I know what you're thinking: the Saints went over and above, to heroic heights, to avoid all sins. They stood out. HOWEVER, they were conspicuous in avoiding *all sins* not just one sin. For example, the man who brags about the lengths he goes to avoid (scrupulous non-sin) accidental glances at magazines? He's actually bragging and committing sins of pride. Saints wouldn't do this. And how is that grocery delivery service patron doing with all the OTHER sins that could send him to Hell? Pride? Anger? Lack of charity? Sins of the tongue? How is his prayer life?

.

Interesting observation. Maybe the reason for this is because they are so worldly that they don't talk about religion online anyway, so they don't participate in trad forums or talk about religious subjects on Twitter or Facebook, and therefore they don't show up when you search about such things? I agree that it's highly unlikely that the vast majority of young trads just don't socialize on the internet; almost impossible, I'd say.

Tis a timely bump.I relayed via PM to one of my circle here on CI, that the priory that serves us has just received a newly ordained priest. He offered his first public masses, with first priestly blessings, this past weekend at our mission chapel. He hails from a very large family out of Quebec. He received his formation at Econe. I thought he was from France because his Latin is excellent (with a slight French accent) and he does not have that horrible Quebecois dialect to his speech. His English is very broken.

I first met him in the parking lot before Saturday evening Mass and offered him my handshake. This is when my theological deflector shields were raised. It is one of the most limp wristed attempts at a handshake I have ever come across in men. So I thought, oh dear, we got one of these new 3D priests! Even when speaking with him in French, he was very soft spoken - causing me to increase shield strength! The third item was the EXTREMELY fancy and delicate lace alb that Father wore for the Masses. My mind jumped immediately to the ICK priests and their lavender laced linens. In light of the holy oils query I posted earlier, I certainly pray there is nothing lacking in the validity of his ordination.

In short, where our chapel heard we were getting a new priest formed in Econe, my first perception was "uh oh."
God bless this new priest and may he turn out good but indeed it is an "uh oh" situation.

Christe eleison. Gospoda pomiluj. Panie zmiluj sie nad nami.