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Author Topic: Neo-SSPX Schismatic argument vs. Resistance  (Read 1789 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Neo-SSPX Schismatic argument vs. Resistance
« on: March 06, 2014, 04:40:12 PM »
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  • To rephrase my post (and the original post by Ladislaus, which gave me this idea):

    If the SSPX position is good, it's good indefinitely.
    If it's no good, you need to leave NOW.

    But this LUDICROUS position held by Bp. Fellay, Fr. Angles, and dozens of others, namely, "The current SSPX position can't be held much longer or it WILL lead to schism" doesn't make sense.

    So there's a date on the calendar on which you wake up and the SSPX becomes schismatic? But the day before it wasn't schismatic?

    Who determines that date?

    Or is it a question of percentages? Right now we're 10% schismatic, later on we'll be 25% schismatic, and eventually we'll be 100% schismatic?

    Isn't that like being 34% pregnant?

    With certain "statuses", you either are or you aren't.

    Either it's schismatic, or it isn't. Today, a year from now, or 200 years from now.
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    Offline parentsfortruth

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    Neo-SSPX Schismatic argument vs. Resistance
    « Reply #1 on: March 06, 2014, 04:50:18 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew


    Either it's schismatic, or it isn't. Today, a year from now, or 200 years from now.


     :applause:
    Matthew 5:37

    But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil.

    My Avatar is Fr. Hector Bolduc. He was a faithful parish priest in De Pere, WI,


    Offline Clemens Maria

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    Neo-SSPX Schismatic argument vs. Resistance
    « Reply #2 on: March 06, 2014, 04:54:56 PM »
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  • They might be right about time limits in the sense that the longer they hold onto the position that resisting the Conciliar Schism is potentially schismatic, the more likely they are to finally throw in the towel and join the Conciliar Schism.  The problem is that they fail to recognize that Rome is in schism from the Catholic Church.  If they understood that, they wouldn't be dogmatic anti-sedevacantists.  Anyone who believes that they might go into schism if they resist Conciliarism already has one foot in the door of the Conciliar Church.

    Offline holysoulsacademy

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    Neo-SSPX Schismatic argument vs. Resistance
    « Reply #3 on: March 06, 2014, 06:22:14 PM »
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  • Am I correct in understanding:

    ~ SSPX > Formal Schism and Material Heresy
    ~ NO > Material Schism & Material Heresy
    ~ RESISTANCE > maintained Catholic Tradition

    This is the conclusion that I have come to.

    Offline Frances

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    Neo-SSPX Schismatic argument vs. Resistance
    « Reply #4 on: March 06, 2014, 06:48:58 PM »
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  • Quote from: Clemens Maria
     The problem is that they fail to recognize that Rome is in schism from the Catholic Church.


     :dancing-banana:
    Agree with above statement!  That's why they are no longer content to remain in Canonical Limbo.  They're afraid of being excommunicated, wholesale.  Even if all sspx members, priests, religious, third order, AND laity who hear Mass at sspx chapels were to be formally excommunicated, it would be completely invalid, rather like being fired from a job you don't hold!  What people are forgetting is that it is Faith, Absolute Truth, that determines one's status as schismatic, excommunicated, etc.  Those who recognize Truth won't be so worried about what a pope or anti-pope says when it doesn't line up with Truth.  "...you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free." Gospel of St. John 8:32   Archbishop Lefebvre, at the end of years of wrestling with this question, concluded that it is Rome who must convert!
    What someone says or declares in contradiction with Truth doesn't matter.
     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  


    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Neo-SSPX Schismatic argument vs. Resistance
    « Reply #5 on: March 06, 2014, 06:55:19 PM »
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  • Quote from: holysoulsacademy
    Am I correct in understanding:

    ~ SSPX > Formal Schism and Material Heresy
    ~ NO > Material Schism & Material Heresy
    ~ RESISTANCE > maintained Catholic Tradition

    This is the conclusion that I have come to.


    How did you come to that conclusion?

    The SSPX, whatever their problems, are not in formal schism.  Nor are they materially heretical.  If they could be said to be either, then either would certainly extend to the Resistance, at least the American one.

    The Novus Ordo, as an organized religion, is formally schismatic and heretical.  Whether or not a few pockets of the faith have been retained here or there where Catholics in good will exists is another question (I believe there are such Catholics) but as an organized religion it is formally schismatic, formally heretical.

    As concerns schism and heresy, Catholics can never be materially schismatic or heretical, if they are schismatic or heretical it can only be formal.  Otherwise, it's simply a mistake.
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Cantarella

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    Neo-SSPX Schismatic argument vs. Resistance
    « Reply #6 on: March 07, 2014, 12:17:02 AM »
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  • Quote from: Mithrandylan
    Quote from: holysoulsacademy
    Am I correct in understanding:

    ~ SSPX > Formal Schism and Material Heresy
    ~ NO > Material Schism & Material Heresy
    ~ RESISTANCE > maintained Catholic Tradition

    This is the conclusion that I have come to.


    How did you come to that conclusion?

    The SSPX, whatever their problems, are not in formal schism.  Nor are they materially heretical.  If they could be said to be either, then either would certainly extend to the Resistance, at least the American one.

    The Novus Ordo, as an organized religion, is formally schismatic and heretical.  Whether or not a few pockets of the faith have been retained here or there where Catholics in good will exists is another question (I believe there are such Catholics) but as an organized religion it is formally schismatic, formally heretical.

    As concerns schism and heresy, Catholics can never be materially schismatic or heretical, if they are schismatic or heretical it can only be formal.  Otherwise, it's simply a mistake.


    Always wise and prudent Mithrandylan.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.