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Author Topic: Neo-SSPX - Diocese this, Ascension isn't a Holy Day that  (Read 1755 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Neo-SSPX - Diocese this, Ascension isn't a Holy Day that
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2021, 08:00:39 PM »
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  • As for breakfast on Sundays, I recall that at STAS in the late 1980s and early 1990s, they set up 4 tables instead of the usual 12 ... probably to accommodate those few who could not keep the fast that long for various medical or other reasons.  It was not mandatory but was sparsely attended.  Even on regular breakfast days, AFTER the early-morning Mass, you were required to show up but not necessarily to eat.  You could sit there sipping water or coffee or nothing.  It was between you and your spiritual director.


    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Neo-SSPX - Diocese this, Ascension isn't a Holy Day that
    « Reply #16 on: May 16, 2021, 07:20:42 AM »
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  • There is a middle case, which is more difficult to ascertain:

    A law which runs contrary to the common good is no law at all.

    So, since the case of many of the disciplinary changes since Vatican II do seem to run contrary to the common good (eg., 1 hour “fast;” etc.), are they in fact “law” at all?
    And if they are not true laws, then the “old” laws would remain in place.

    This would be an argument in favor of the old laws remaining obligatory (at least for those conscious of the evil in the new norms).

    The SSPX has even acknowledged in one of its articles of a few years ago that the new norms governing fast and abstinence are not sufficient for obtaining salvation (ie., run contrary to the common good).

    Confusingly, however, they do not say these new laws are not laws at all, but rather encourage the faithful to observe the traditional norms (while not saying they are obligatory).

    In the end, I’m not sure what the answer is, but it sure seems safer to disregard the new norms and stick with the old, regardless of whether they remain obligatory or not.

    Therefore, I accidentally eat something 2.5 hours before Mass, I do not receive communion.
    I would not take communion in the situation you describe, I wouldn't feel right about it, but I wouldn't bind someone else's conscience if they decided to do so because I wouldn't think I had the authority to do that, and I wouldn't think they were committing a sin necessarily.  But, like you, I think it safer to follow the older rules.

    The SSPX's position on fasting makes perfect sense to me too.  Yes, 2 days fasting and a few days abstinence a year obviously isn't enough penance, but only the Church can bind people to *specific* acts of penance.  The SSPX cannot essentially function as Pope and demand *specific* actions of penance from people that the Church isn't.  That the law is more lax than it used to be isn't sufficient reason either, since the 1958 laws were laxer than earlier, medieval rules and whatnot.



    Online CathSarto

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    Re: Neo-SSPX - Diocese this, Ascension isn't a Holy Day that
    « Reply #17 on: May 16, 2021, 09:23:12 PM »
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  • My husband booked a flight and planned a trip on Ascension Thursday but hadn't looked at the liturgical calendar to see that he would be missing a holy day of obligation that day. After realizing his mistake, he asked our SSPX pastor what to do and he responded that "they moved the obligation to Sunday", so no need to worry.

    This is the problem with the one foot in the conciliar church and one foot in Tradition approach. 
    If the Society would just announce that they are completely in the conciliar fold, it would clarify much, but I doubt they would lose many faithful over it.  

    This is why the SSPV's stance makes way more sense.

    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Neo-SSPX - Diocese this, Ascension isn't a Holy Day that
    « Reply #18 on: May 16, 2021, 09:39:24 PM »
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  • My husband booked a flight and planned a trip on Ascension Thursday but hadn't looked at the liturgical calendar to see that he would be missing a holy day of obligation that day. After realizing his mistake, he asked our SSPX pastor what to do and he responded that "they moved the obligation to Sunday", so no need to worry.

    This is the problem with the one foot in the conciliar church and one foot in Tradition approach.
    If the Society would just announce that they are completely in the conciliar fold, it would clarify much, but I doubt they would lose many faithful over it.  

    This is why the SSPV's stance makes way more sense.
    I think the SSPV's position makes sense based on a different premise.  If SSPX has any doubt that the conciliar claimants are real popes, they settle it in favor of the claimant.  If SSPV has any doubt, they settle it *against* the claimant.

    In other words, SSPV might give lip service to the idea that you *can* believe Francis is a Pope if you must, but for all practical intents and purposes, they're Sedevacantists (even if they're charitable enough to sometimes commune SSPXers.)

    I'm sure your SSPX pastor doesn't literally mean "don't worry about it."  If you hadn't screwed up, and ahead of time you told him you were gonna miss Ascension Thursday, I'm sure he would've encouraged you to go.  

    But at the end of the day, its only the Church that decides if these things bind on pain of mortal sin, not the SSPX.  The thing is the SSPV *literally* thinks the post conciliar claimants have no authority, so obviously they can't change the day.  But BOTH SSPX and SSPV would've had to admit it wasn't a mortal sin if Pius XII had made this allowance, however imprudent they might've thought they were.

    In other words the application is downstream from whether one thinks Francis is merely a harmful pope or whether he is no pope at all.  Non Sedevacantists who think that you can say its a mortal sin to follow the modified calendar are honestly kidding themselves.  I'll be blunt and take the downvotes, that's an idiotic position.

    Online CathSarto

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    Re: Neo-SSPX - Diocese this, Ascension isn't a Holy Day that
    « Reply #19 on: May 16, 2021, 10:01:43 PM »
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  • When I said the SSPV stance makes more sense, I meant in the way they hold everything "conciliar" in doubt and without declaring that they definitely know for sure, err on the side of caution by avoiding those doubtful decisions made by the conciliar church. 
    The response by the SSPX priest was definitely in a "don't worry about it" manner. The "Church" has moved the day of Ascension, even though today the SSPX celebrates the Sunday after the Ascension. Ir's madness!
    Oh, and if you're not already confused, on Saturday, the vigil of Pentecost is an obligatory day of fast and abstinence for SSPX members, but nor for the rest of us.
    Why can't we all be on the same page?


    Offline andy

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    Re: Neo-SSPX - Diocese this, Ascension isn't a Holy Day that
    « Reply #20 on: May 17, 2021, 10:37:30 AM »
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  • SSPX issued 1962 Missal lists The Ascension of our lord as day of obligation. The local SSPX church added an evening Mass for those who work and could not attend in the morning, however I do not recall an announcement on the preceding Sunday that this is indeed a holy day of obligation. 

    Offline apollo

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    Re: Neo-SSPX - Diocese this, Ascension isn't a Holy Day that
    « Reply #21 on: May 25, 2021, 06:31:43 AM »
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  • "Thursday May 13 is the Ascension of Our Lord. The Sunday Mass schedule will be followed. Ascension Thursday is not a holy day of obligation for most dioceses in the U.S. (including the Archdiocese of Kansas City in Kansas); however, we encourage everyone to sanctify the day"
    .
    Who cares what the Counciliar Heretical Church and the local diocese have done
    to demote the Feast of The Ascension to a non-holy day ?  
    .
    They have also declared that the Latin Mass is the "extraordinary form".  Who
    cares what they think?  
    .
    Obviously, the SSPX is officially a diocesan organization.  So if you want to
    separate yourself from the Counciliar Church, as A. Lefevbre recommends,
    you must leave the SSPX.
    .
    Question.  Who is going to "own" the $30,000,000 church which is being
    built?   The diocese ???????

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Neo-SSPX - Diocese this, Ascension isn't a Holy Day that
    « Reply #22 on: May 25, 2021, 07:29:36 AM »
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  • This is the problem with the one foot in the conciliar church and one foot in Tradition approach.
    If the Society would just announce that they are completely in the conciliar fold, it would clarify much, but I doubt they would lose many faithful over it.  

    This is why the SSPV's stance makes way more sense.
    The OLD SSPX had all the advantages of the sedevacantist position, but without a few of the disadvantages. That's where I'll stay thanks.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Neo-SSPX - Diocese this, Ascension isn't a Holy Day that
    « Reply #23 on: May 25, 2021, 07:57:45 AM »
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  • Saying that the SSPX position is flawed or inferior just because +Fellay, a certain % of SSPX priests, and a good % of the Faithful have abandoned it, 
    is like saying that a wife and children are "bad" because the husband succuмbed to temptations of the flesh and abandoned his family.

    Or the Catholic Faith itself! Doesn't the Church lose members on a regular basis to other religions, paganism, etc.? Men can be tempted and lose the Faith, and they do. But there's nothing wrong with the Catholic Faith.

    Foolish men might reason thusly:

    John abandoned X for Y.
    (IMPLIED MINOR) But men always choose the greater good over the lesser good.
    Therefore X must be inferior or flawed in some way.

    BUT THE UNSPOKEN MINOR IS FALSE!

    Every sin is a man foolishly pursuing some lesser good (pleasure, etc.) over a greater good (doing God's will, holiness, being worthy of heaven)
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