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Author Topic: Need clarification on various groups in the orbit of the SSPX  (Read 2498 times)

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Offline MrJohn

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Need clarification on various groups in the orbit of the SSPX
« on: May 23, 2024, 08:44:31 AM »
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    • Would someone explain to me what these various groups are, and the neo-SSPX or "new SSPX" and their relation to SSPX. When and where they originated and by whom and why. 

    MrJohn
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    Offline St Giles

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    Re: Need clarification on various groups in the orbit of the SSPX
    « Reply #1 on: May 23, 2024, 09:49:22 AM »
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    • As far as I know the term may have originated from Bp Williamson. You might ask him. It is what the resistance calls the SSPX as it is today. The resistance might consider itself the true SSPX or having the true spirit of the SSPX.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Need clarification on various groups in the orbit of the SSPX
    « Reply #2 on: May 23, 2024, 10:14:52 AM »
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    • First time I saw the term used, it was by Matthew, and it sounded good, so I picked it up also.  Having been a seminarian at STAS, it's hard to call it the SSPX anymore, because it really is not even close to the same organization (in terms of their mindset) that I knew when I was there in the late 80s and early 90s.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Need clarification on various groups in the orbit of the SSPX
    « Reply #3 on: May 23, 2024, 10:16:11 AM »
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    • The sspx became to be called the new-sspx due to +Fellay's gradual shift towards new-rome, which began with the papacy of Pope Benedict, (who has publicly admitted) that one of his main goals was to get the new-sspx to "make a deal" and become an Indult community (i.e. accepting of V2 and the new mass).  Thus, +Benedict took away the excommunications of the 4 sspx bishops and "freed the latin mass" through his 2005 motu proprio.  Both these actions were unnecessary, since the excommunications of the 4 bishops were bogus and the latin mass was always allowed by law, due to Quo Primum, which +Benedict admitted in his motu docuмent.  So, these actions were just PR stunts, with the hopes of swaying the opinion of the new-sspx laity towards embracing new-rome and opening up a "dialogue" on reconciliation.

    At the same time this was all going on, +Fellay started to crack down on all the priests/bishops in the society who did not want to make a deal with new-rome, who did not want to compromise on doctrine, and who did not want to betray +Archbishop Lefebvre's work to uphold Tradition and true Catholicism.  Those priests/bishops who would not stay silent during +Fellay's betrayals, were exiled or forced to leave the society, until +Fellay had enough "yes men" to control the organization.

    Those bishops/priests who were kicked out, many stayed together and formed what they called "The Resistance", which was meant to stay true to +Lefebvre's original stance towards heretical new-rome, and to oppose +Fellay's liberalism and to keep masses/sacraments available for those former sspx-laity who had also left the new-sspx, due to the gradual modernism and compromises which had crept into the entire society (from books being edited, to websites being censored, to articles disappearing, to sermons being modified, etc).

    The new-sspx is to V2, what the Resistance is to Traditionalism.  The new-sspx is a modernized version of True Catholicism, just as the Resistance is the same as the SSPX as founded by +Lefebvre.
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    Offline B from A

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    Re: Need clarification on various groups in the orbit of the SSPX
    « Reply #4 on: May 23, 2024, 10:21:19 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on May 23, 2024, 10:16:11 AM
    ... due to +Fellay's gradual shift towards new-rome, which began with the papacy of Pope Benedict,...

    It became more obvious during this time, but it actually started years before.  
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Need clarification on various groups in the orbit of the SSPX
    « Reply #5 on: May 23, 2024, 10:27:27 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on May 23, 2024, 10:16:11 AM
    ... +Benedict took away the excommunications of the 4 sspx bishops and "freed the latin mass" through his 2005 motu proprio.  Both these actions were unnecessary, since the excommunications of the 4 bishops were bogus and the latin mass was always allowed by law, due to Quo Primum, which +Benedict admitted in his motu docuмent.  So, these actions were just PR stunts ...

    Well, if you look at the wording of the Motu, it was a PR stunt even without considering Quo Primum, since with the Indult the Tridentine Mass was forbidden unless permitted (by the bishop) and with the Motu it was permitted unless forbidden (by the bishop).  So the end result was the same.  Only difference was that the bishop didn't have any say in "private" Masses, but then with the shortage of priests in the NO, there were relatively few of these, they were willing to tolerate.  It was, however, a catalyst for the conversion of Archbishop Vigano, because when he went into hiding and was saying private Masses, he took advantage of the Motu to offer the Traditional Mass, and thus became converted by the Mass to Traditional Catholicism.

    Ganswein admitted after the death of B16 that his intent was to re-absorb the SSPX into the Conciliar collective.  Once they were "in", he would have fabricated some hybrid Mass that was half Novus Ordo, until they were comfortable enough with it to go full Novus Ordo (using a boil-the-frog approach).

    Never go full Novus Ordo :laugh1:

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    Offline MrJohn

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    Re: Need clarification on various groups in the orbit of the SSPX
    « Reply #6 on: May 23, 2024, 04:58:32 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on May 23, 2024, 10:16:11 AM
    The sspx became to be called the new-sspx due to +Fellay's gradual shift towards new-rome, which began with the papacy of Pope Benedict, (who has publicly admitted) that one of his main goals was to get the new-sspx to "make a deal" and become an Indult community (i.e. accepting of V2 and the new mass).  Thus, +Benedict took away the excommunications of the 4 sspx bishops and "freed the latin mass" through his 2005 motu proprio.  Both these actions were unnecessary, since the excommunications of the 4 bishops were bogus and the latin mass was always allowed by law, due to Quo Primum, which +Benedict admitted in his motu docuмent.  So, these actions were just PR stunts, with the hopes of swaying the opinion of the new-sspx laity towards embracing new-rome and opening up a "dialogue" on reconciliation.

    At the same time this was all going on, +Fellay started to crack down on all the priests/bishops in the society who did not want to make a deal with new-rome, who did not want to compromise on doctrine, and who did not want to betray +Archbishop Lefebvre's work to uphold Tradition and true Catholicism.  Those priests/bishops who would not stay silent during +Fellay's betrayals, were exiled or forced to leave the society, until +Fellay had enough "yes men" to control the organization.

    Those bishops/priests who were kicked out, many stayed together and formed what they called "The Resistance", which was meant to stay true to +Lefebvre's original stance towards heretical new-rome, and to oppose +Fellay's liberalism and to keep masses/sacraments available for those former sspx-laity who had also left the new-sspx, due to the gradual modernism and compromises which had crept into the entire society (from books being edited, to websites being censored, to articles disappearing, to sermons being modified, etc).

    The new-sspx is to V2, what the Resistance is to Traditionalism.  The new-sspx is a modernized version of True Catholicism, just as the Resistance is the same as the SSPX as founded by +Lefebvre.
    Are there any missions in the United States which are compromised? How would I know which to stay clear of?
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    Offline MrJohn

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    Re: Need clarification on various groups in the orbit of the SSPX
    « Reply #7 on: May 23, 2024, 05:19:59 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on May 23, 2024, 10:14:52 AM
    First time I saw the term used, it was by Matthew, and it sounded good, so I picked it up also.  Having been a seminarian at STAS, it's hard to call it the SSPX anymore, because it really is not even close to the same organization (in terms of their mindset) that I knew when I was there in the late 80s and early 90s.
    Are you stating that every mission or church under the SSPX whose Priests went to their seminaries are no longer the original SSPX but has compromised with New Rome even though the Tridentine Masses are said in these missions or churches?
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    Offline Shrewd Operator

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    Re: Need clarification on various groups in the orbit of the SSPX
    « Reply #8 on: May 23, 2024, 06:08:29 PM »
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    • Quote from: MrJohn on May 23, 2024, 05:19:59 PM
    Are you stating that every mission or church under the SSPX whose Priests went to their seminaries are no longer the original SSPX but has compromised with New Rome even though the Tridentine Masses are said in these missions or churches?
    That' about the size of it. You can easily confirm by asking any SSPX priest how they stand regarding the resistance. They will confirm the rift, and blame it on rebellion on the part of the Resistance (aka the SSPX Marion Corps). The resistance clergy 'rebelled' against the defection of the SSPX leaders on the primacy of doctrine when dealing with Rome, and for accepting 'permissions' for normal things from Rome, when Rome was acting modernist about those very things. Like ordinations and marriage.
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    Offline Soubirous

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    Re: Need clarification on various groups in the orbit of the SSPX
    « Reply #9 on: May 23, 2024, 06:15:54 PM »
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    • There's a lot to be gleaned at a very basic level by simply looking through the SSPX Resistance News threads. For example, there are the conversations about certain problematic (to call it that) chapels, and also, threads where members ask about priests newly assigned to whichever chapels elsewhere.
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    Offline MrJohn

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    Re: Need clarification on various groups in the orbit of the SSPX
    « Reply #10 on: May 23, 2024, 07:04:35 PM »
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    • Are the Neo SSPX to be trusted regarding their bishops, priests, doctrine, etc? Suppose I attend the Mass and what safeguard do I have this is a properly ordained priest and attended a proper seminary.
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    Offline MrJohn

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    Re: Need clarification on various groups in the orbit of the SSPX
    « Reply #11 on: May 23, 2024, 07:25:57 PM »
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    • Quote from: Soubirous on May 23, 2024, 06:15:54 PM
    There's a lot to be gleaned at a very basic level by simply looking through the SSPX Resistance News threads. For example, there are the conversations about certain problematic (to call it that) chapels, and also, threads where members ask about priests newly assigned to whichever chapels elsewhere.
    Thanks Soubirous. I will certainly do that.
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    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Need clarification on various groups in the orbit of the SSPX
    « Reply #12 on: May 24, 2024, 11:47:29 AM »
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    • Not every group or priest considering themselves to be “the resistance” is safe!  A few have gone off the rails and are actually dangerous.  Think, equivalents to “Pope Michael.”  
    You need to evaluate them for yourself.  IMO, for what little it’s worth, MCRI is acceptable although I don’t align with them 100%.  Others on CI wouldn’t even consider using their priests or attending Masses.  
    May God bless you and the Holy Ghost guide yo7!
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Need clarification on various groups in the orbit of the SSPX
    « Reply #13 on: May 24, 2024, 12:02:44 PM »
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    • Quote
    Are there any missions in the United States which are compromised? How would I know which to stay clear of?
    99.9% of priests in the new-sspx are valid (there are a few from the novus ordo).  Probably 95% are doctrinally sound.  You will get valid masses/sacraments as new-sspx chapels...but...just know that they are on a slippery slope towards liberalism.  You have to pay attention and be watchful.


    In regards to the Resistance, except for Fr Pfeiffer (He travels a lot; I would avoid him and his "priests"), 99.9% are valid and doctrinally sound.
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    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Need clarification on various groups in the orbit of the SSPX
    « Reply #14 on: May 24, 2024, 02:20:48 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on May 24, 2024, 12:02:44 PM
    In regards to the Resistance, except for Fr Pfeiffer (He travels a lot; I would avoid him and his "priests"), 99.9% are valid and doctrinally sound.
    What about Fr. Hewko?  Some would say he’s going down the same road as Fr. Pfeiffer, only he has yet to go so far as to get himself consecrated bishop.  He says he’ll never do that; hopefully he won’t!
      I sometimes pick up his sermons online.  Those he gives to people detached from SSPX, +Bp. Williamson, +Bp. Zendejas, etc. are very good.  He sticks to the Gospel and the Epistle and will give a short warning Re: novus ordo.  In others, he goes off on tangents. 
    For now, if he establishes an Oratory, a house of prayer in northern New Hampshire, and Our Lord so wills, one of the bishops will take an interest and it will grow into a seminary.  If not, an Oratory can do great work for Christ by their prayers and penance.  If Masses are open to the public, people in the community may come, get involved, and word will spread.  Possibly, there wil be a community of sisters. 
    There used to be a fair number of traditional or traditional leaning people in southern NH.  Is that still true?  That’s how it was in the 1970’s and early 1980’s.  I’ve not been there since.  Perhaps some of them will take an interest in helping Fr. Hewko. 

    P.S.  OP, IMHO, there’s no problem in going to Fr. Hewko for a general Confession.  He does retreats and is quite good!  Look him up on YouTube for his contact information.
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