Author Topic: N.O. Priests pray for the Pope's death  (Read 2008 times)

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Offline Tradplorable

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N.O. Priests pray for the Pope's death
« on: November 01, 2017, 10:35:37 AM »
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  • https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/oct/27/the-war-against-pope-francis
    .


    Excellent piece.
    .
    Quote
    “We can’t wait for him to die. It’s unprintable what we say in private. "
    So do we, Father, so do we.
    .
    :incense:

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: N.O. Priests pray for the Pope's death
    « Reply #1 on: November 01, 2017, 10:54:38 AM »
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  • I wonder, however, if that is pleasing to God?

    A worse one will come along so what does it matter anyway, my opinion is things will get worse before they get better.

    Believing with all my heart that things will get better, at least I pray for the youth of today who are searching but can't find the Truth because they are taught there is no truth in the objective sense, therefore, they are brainwashed to not seek it. 


    Offline PG

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    Re: N.O. Priests pray for the Pope's death
    « Reply #2 on: November 01, 2017, 11:21:37 AM »
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  • I did not read the article.  But, one should not be praying for the popes death.  That is taught to be a sin in the catechism.  In my opinion we should be praying for the popes resignation.  I don't recommend we should pray for his betterment as pope.  The papacy in my opinion not meant to be a learn on the job position.  It is best that he resign and work out his salvation in a monastery.  And, all deserve the best, especially the one man on earth who cannot be formally judged.  
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Offline Barry

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    Re: N.O. Priests pray for the Pope's death
    « Reply #3 on: November 01, 2017, 12:18:16 PM »
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  • I did not read the article.  But, one should not be praying for the popes death.  That is taught to be a sin in the catechism.  In my opinion we should be praying for the popes resignation.  I don't recommend we should pray for his betterment as pope.  The papacy in my opinion not meant to be a learn on the job position.  It is best that he resign and work out his salvation in a monastery.  And, all deserve the best, especially the one man on earth who cannot be formally judged.  
    I have not ever seen in the catechism that is a sin to pray for someone's death - be it for a real or pretend pope or otherwise.

    However, saying that they "can't wait for him to die" does not strike me as a prayer either, especially if what they say in private in unprintable.

    Indeed, if praying for someone's death is a sin, then we should revoke the canonization of St. Rita of Cascia, who prayed that her sons die, rather than commit mortal sins.  That's tough love alright, but maybe that's why she is a saint.  https://www.midwestaugustinians.org/st-rita-of-cascia

    In reality, you are not allowed to wish an evil upon a person.  Death may or may not be an evil.  Losing your soul is, so obviously praying for someone to die so that he can go to Hell is wrong.  However, for him to die before committing a worse sin is actually a good for him.  There is a hierarchy here - first, pray for the person's conversion, then secondly that he be stopped in doing evil ("confounded" is the word often used in the Psalms), and thirdly for his defeat, up to and including death.

    Pope St. Pius V and the people of Rome prayed the Rosary in the streets for victory at the battle of Lepanto, which victory mainly meant the death of so many Turks, albeit with divine assistance.  Do we want to turn "Our Lady of Victory" into "Our Lady of Defeat"?

    That being said, we need to follow what Our Lady called for at Fatima - wear the Scapular, pray the Rosary, pray for poor sinners, do penance.  And in this age, keep the Faith and stay away from the false Conciliar Church.

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: N.O. Priests pray for the Pope's death
    « Reply #4 on: November 01, 2017, 02:04:03 PM »
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  • From the Guardian essay in the opening post.

    The aftermath of Vatican II

    "Church attendance plummeted in the western world, as it did in other denominations. In the US, 55% of Catholics went to mass regularly in 1965; by 2000, only 22% did. In 1965, 1.3m Catholic babies were baptised in the US; in 2016, just 670,000. Whether this was cause or correlation remains fiercely disputed. The introverts blamed it on the abandonment of eternal truths and traditional practices; extraverts felt the church had not changed far or fast enough."

    Francis continues the Vatican II Revolution, the revolution of the Antichrist.

    Lord have mercy.


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: N.O. Priests pray for the Pope's death
    « Reply #5 on: November 01, 2017, 02:26:30 PM »
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  • Per St. Don Bosco's advise to his students, if he's a bad Pope, we don't want him to live long.   :jester:


    This is a totally logical Catholic viewpoint.

    TIA Link

    The Chair of St. Peter – January 18 

    Prof. Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira

    It is well known that Pope Pius IX, who later became a great Pope, was liberal in the first phase of his pontificate. There were no liberal errors in his documents, but he adopted a series of very liberal attitudes. 

    At that time, Italy was divided into many small kingdoms, principates and free cities that made up the colorful, picturesque, efficient and stable Italy that we admire. The revolutionaries, however, had a plan to unify Italy and destroy those organic cells. They supported the liberal Pope and used to shout in the streets Viva Pio IX! as a rallying cry for the anarquists, socialists, members of the Mafia and Camorra, and others affiliated to the sect of Mazzini [the leader of the Carbonari, an Italian Masonry]. The cry – Viva Pio IX! – became therefore a symbol of the liberal and Masonic campaign to unify Italy by combating those organic small thrones.



    The altar of the Chair of Peter by Bernini
    In this difficult situation, where the Pope became the symbol of the Revolution, a great saint was present, St. John Bosco. The cry Viva Pio IX! had penetrated his schools, and often during class breaks the boys would call it out. In this way, the cry of the revolt entered the heart of his work with the youth. 

    How did he handle the situation? He forbade the pupils in his schools to shout Viva Pio IX!and ordered them to shout Viva il Papa! [Viva the Pope!] I think it was a superbly intelligent solution. Please note that this fact is recorded in the process of canonization of St. John Bosco and did not prevent him from becoming a saint. Nor did it prevent his work from being richly blessed by Divine Providence. So, today also, instead of shouting Viva Paul VI! we may well shout Viva the Pope!, and we will be following the example of a great saint. 



    At the heart of St. John Bosco’s distinction is a very important difference between the Pope and the papacy, on one hand, and the person of the Pope, on the other, who is vulnerable to every human misery. He is also susceptible to error, to the measure that his teaching is not guaranteed by papal infallibility. A clear distinction exists between the man and the institution he represents. For this reason, it is not always the case to shout Viva Paul VI!, but instead we should be silent, weep and pray since this Pope in many ways represents the Revolution. It is always the case, however, to shout: Viva the Pope! and Viva the Papacy! 

    In this regard, this feast of the Chair of St. Peter is a very opportune feast, because it celebrates the infallible chair [cathedra] of St. Peter teaching to the entire world, and the Pope when he teaches infallibly from St. Peter’s chair. [ex cathedra – from the chair]. Therefore, it is the infallibility, the orthodoxy of the Church that is celebrated in today’s feast.



    A pilgrim touching the foot of St. Peter at the Vatican Basilica. Below, the statue wears the papal symbols

    In the rear altar in St. Peter’s Basilica there is a bronze chair called Cathedra Petri [the Chair of Peter]. Over the altar is the famous Glory of Bernini to honor it. That bronze chair is empty and inside it is a small bench, whose photograph I saw, which is considered to be the original chair of St. Peter. Today’s feast certainly is to venerate that small chair. But it is also to celebrate the fact that the ex cathedra papal teachings are infallible, and they stand over the entire Holy, Catholic, Apostolic and Roman Church. 

    In that same Basilica there is also another statue representing St. Peter. It is made of dark metal, probably bronze as well, and depicts him seated on a chair, holding the keys of the powers of the papacy. One of his feet extends out a bit past the marble base, at the height of the lips of the faithful. The pilgrims to Rome go there and kiss or touch the foot of St. Peter as a symbol of their obedience to the teachings of the Church. As a result of this devotion carried out through the centuries, the foot of St. Peter has worn thin. On one of the feasts of St. Peter – the feast of Ss. Peter and Paul – that statue is dressed in the Pope’s solemn vestments and pontifical symbols including the tiara. The statue is there as if it were a living Pope. 

    What should we do on today’s feast? Spiritually, we should kiss the foot of that statue of St. Peter. That is, we should renew our submission to this great and wise principle which is the infallibility of the authority that governs and teaches the Catholic Church. We should thank Our Lord through the intercession of Our Lady for the institution of that infallibility, which is the column that sustains the world. For without Papal Infallibility the Church, and consequently the world, would be irremediably lost. It is also the way to Heaven, because without the certainty of that infallibility, men would not have the sure knowledge of the right path to salvation. 

    We should also remember that fidelity to the chair of St. Peter does not mean the unconditional acceptance of everything the person who exercises the papacy does. The Church instituted by Our Lord distinguishes the cathedra from the person. Therefore, the supreme fidelity to the Chair of St. Peter is to know this distinction and act accordingly. 

    If the Pope – like Pius IX – does something different from what the chair taught before, where do we stand? We stand forever – even to death – with the Chair of Peter, noting however that the chair is never completely removed from the person who exercises the papacy. The person can sometimes be away from the chair, but the chair does not exist without the person. We do not have just an abstract fidelity to the papacy. We have a concrete fidelity to the present day Pope to the measure that he is infallible and teaches things in accordance with the perennial Magisterium of the Catholic Church. 


    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: N.O. Priests pray for the Pope's death
    « Reply #6 on: November 01, 2017, 03:18:46 PM »
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  • It's ABSOLUTELY NOT a sin to pray for a pope's death.  Or anyone's death.  People in the middle ages prayed for a bad king's death all the time.  As long as you pray that they make it to heaven, you can pray for their death.  It's totally catholic. 

    Offline Bilbo

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    Re: N.O. Priests pray for the Pope's death
    « Reply #7 on: November 01, 2017, 03:57:27 PM »
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  • The best thing to do is to pray for the Pope's conversion which will not only help his soul but the entire church if he does convert.


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: N.O. Priests pray for the Pope's death
    « Reply #8 on: November 01, 2017, 08:06:06 PM »
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  • I'm sure the judeo-masonics are praying for his health and longevity.



    It doesn't get any better than this... 

    When the Destroyer pope bows down to the enemies of Christ.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Tradplorable

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    Re: N.O. Priests pray for the Pope's death
    « Reply #9 on: November 01, 2017, 10:41:09 PM »
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  • That is gross.

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: N.O. Priests pray for the Pope's death
    « Reply #10 on: November 01, 2017, 10:44:22 PM »
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  • I'm sure the judeo-masonics are praying for his health and longevity.



    It doesn't get any better than this...

    When the Destroyer pope bows down to the enemies of Christ.

    "Lord, have mercy".


    Offline PG

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    Re: N.O. Priests pray for the Pope's death
    « Reply #11 on: November 01, 2017, 10:51:42 PM »
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  • It's ABSOLUTELY NOT a sin to pray for a pope's death.  Or anyone's death.  People in the middle ages prayed for a bad king's death all the time.  As long as you pray that they make it to heaven, you can pray for their death.  It's totally catholic.
    If only you knew how ridiculous you sound.  "its totally catholic" my foot.  If you don't like my advice, you can alter it a bit.  Pray for his resignation, and then sick the inquisition on him.  And, if he does not respond faithfully, excommunicate him.  That is the only way you can excommunicate the "pope".  Pray for his resignation.  
    And, I gathered my reasoning from Fr. Cogans catechism where in the back it lists as a mortal sin "wishing someone harm(or serious harm).  I don't remember if it said the word serious or not.  But, how is someones death not to be interpreted as harm?  It is the worst physical harm, your dead.  
    And, it is pathetic that we should be praying death to someone without seeking their earthly salvation while simultaneously anticipating their entry into heaven.   Crazy logic.  You make it sound as though everyone goes to heaven.
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Offline PG

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    Re: N.O. Priests pray for the Pope's death
    « Reply #12 on: November 01, 2017, 11:04:45 PM »
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  • I have read denzinger.  And, I am quite certain there is a condemned error in there that goes something like this.  It is condemned to wish the death of a father or mother or family member because the result will be the reception of a benefice/inheritance which would be subjectively needed/desirable.  The pope said such a desire is not without sin.  Look it up.  I will look it up but I am finding it difficult to find at the moment.  But, it is in denzinger.  I am sure. 

    This condemned error would be between the years of 1300 - 1900.  
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Offline PG

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    Re: N.O. Priests pray for the Pope's death
    « Reply #13 on: November 01, 2017, 11:58:17 PM »
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  • It is highly doubtful to pray for the death of a bad pope.  

    Denzinger 1163,1164, and 1165.  condemned errors(probably of the jesuits) on moral subjects from decree 1679.  

    1163 - If you act with due moderation, you can without mortal sin be sad about the moral life of someone and rejoice about his natural death, seek it with ineffectual desire and long for it, not indeed from dissatisfaction with the person but because of some temporal emolument.

    1164 - It is licit with an absolute desire to wish for the death of a father, not indeed as an evil to the father, but as a good to him who desires it, for a rich inheritance will surely come his way.  

    1165 - It is licit for a son to rejoice over  the parricide of his parent perpetrated by himself in drunkenness, because of the great riches that came from it by inheritance.  

    These three condemned errors(especially 1163 and 1164) clearly cast a shadow of doubt over the practice of praying for the death of a bad pope.  I think 1164 is the strongest to come to my defense.  The pope is the "father" of the church and very much comparable.  I certainly wont be praying for the popes death, especially while we all agree that he is a material heretic.  If he was in the state of grace and on his deathbed suffering, then we could pray for his death, which would better mean we are praying for his entry into heaven.  
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Offline ultrarigorist

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    Re: N.O. Priests pray for the Pope's death
    « Reply #14 on: November 02, 2017, 08:45:19 AM »
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  • Matters of his proximate demise aside, the comparison of Pope Francis to Caligula was right on the money!
    :jester:

     

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