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Author Topic: Msgr. Vigano addresses the Resistance and Civitas  (Read 3923 times)

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Offline songbird

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Re: Msgr. Vigano addresses the Resistance and Civitas
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2022, 04:44:11 PM »
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  • Vigano is new order, correct?

    Offline songbird

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    Re: Msgr. Vigano addresses the Resistance and Civitas
    « Reply #16 on: August 30, 2022, 05:07:14 PM »
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  • Msgr. Vigano supports Coalition for Canceled Priest.  Coalition for Canceled Priest are not priest, no holy orders.  They do not recognize the True Mass, therefore there is no Precious Blood.  These so called canceled priest do not want the True Mass, they want to be reinstated, says so on Billboards.  Msgr. Vigano, if he knows the true mass, but does not accept before Vat. II, why does he remain new order and support new order. Hm?


    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Msgr. Vigano addresses the Resistance and Civitas
    « Reply #17 on: August 30, 2022, 09:51:52 PM »
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  • Songbird is a lying character assassin.

    Offline epiphany

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    Re: Msgr. Vigano addresses the Resistance and Civitas
    « Reply #18 on: August 30, 2022, 11:37:29 PM »
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  • Putin, of course. He's going to defeat Globohomo and set everything right again with the help of Francis.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Msgr. Vigano addresses the Resistance and Civitas
    « Reply #19 on: August 31, 2022, 05:20:14 AM »
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  • Vigano is new order, correct?

    No.  He used to be, but he is not any longer.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Msgr. Vigano addresses the Resistance and Civitas
    « Reply #20 on: August 31, 2022, 05:24:15 AM »
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  • Msgr. Vigano supports Coalition for Canceled Priest.  Coalition for Canceled Priest are not priest, no holy orders.  They do not recognize the True Mass, therefore there is no Precious Blood.  These so called canceled priest do not want the True Mass, they want to be reinstated, says so on Billboards.  Msgr. Vigano, if he knows the true mass, but does not accept before Vat. II, why does he remain new order and support new order. Hm?

    So, now, unless someone believes dogmatically that NO Holy Orders are invalid, he's part of the "New Order"?  And even if they're not valid priests -- IMO, they probably are not -- they're still being persecuted on account of at least in some respects having remained faithful to Tradition.

    Offline augustineeens

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    Re: Msgr. Vigano addresses the Resistance and Civitas
    « Reply #21 on: August 31, 2022, 08:32:44 AM »
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  • Offline de Lugo

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    Re: Msgr. Vigano addresses the Resistance and Civitas
    « Reply #22 on: August 31, 2022, 10:49:14 AM »
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  • A minor point, but a new redacted translation has appeared on the American Lifesitenews website, in which the editors felt it necessary to excise the opening paragraph, because it shows Msgr. Vigano being favorably disposed to the Resistance.

    You can see it here: https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/abp-vigano-globalist-doctrine-is-essentially-satanic-we-must-rebuild-christendom/

    Since this website is one of the main English-speaking publishers of Msgr. Vigano's frequent addresses, one might be justified in wondering what else Lifesitenews have excised from Vigano's addresses over the last few years.

    Why are they trying to tame him?

    If the editors do not agree with Msgr. Vigano's positions, then perhaps the more honourable path would be not to publish his addresses, rather than bend them to fit LSN editorial policy, and presenting a false, softer Vigano to the world?
    Noblesse oblige.


    Offline Mr G

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    Re: Msgr. Vigano addresses the Resistance and Civitas
    « Reply #23 on: August 31, 2022, 11:09:57 AM »
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  • Abp. Viganò: Abp. Lefebvre not a 'schismatic,' but a 'holy man' with great 'fidelity' to the Church - LifeSite (lifesitenews.com)

    Editor’s note: Below is the Q & A session with Archbishop Viganò held at the end of a conference he gave at the Summer University – CIVITAS on August 14, 2020 in France. His full address can be found HERE.

    (LifeSiteNews) — Dear friends, I am very happy to have been given the opportunity to participate in this edition of your Summer University. It is a great honor for me to be able to offer my warmest greetings to the militants of Civitas, starting with your President, Mr. Alain Escada, the Secretary General, Mr. Léon-Pierre Durin, your dear Chaplain, Father Joseph, as well as the Capuchins of the Resistance.

    By fighting for the re-establishment of the Social Reign of Our Lord Jesus Christ and by fighting against the Masonic oligarchy and against the Davos sect, Civitas finds itself – like David against Goliath – at the heart of the fight of the anti-globalist Alliance that I have called for with all my heart.

    I can only rejoice to know that Civitas have now been established in Switzerland, Belgium, Italy, Canada and Spain, following the example of France, and I believe it is highly desirable that the same initiative be extended everywhere. It is time for Catholics from all over the world to unite to form a common front against globalist tyranny.
    The house built on the Rock is the Catholic Church and Christian civilization. It is also France, baptized in Reims by Saint Remi, built in the alliance of the Throne and the Altar on the day of the coronation of Clovis, King of the Franks.

    There can be no remedy for the evils of our time except in the Social Reign of Our Lord Jesus Christ, in a society reconciled with God, honoring Him, and publicly confessing the Catholic Faith received from the Apostles and faithfully transmitted by the Holy Church down the centuries.
    This is the true counter-revolution.

    Dear friends, keep in your hearts and minds the example of the Martyrs to preserve Christianity and promote the Social Reign of Our Lord Jesus Christ. These martyrs who have fertilized the future of the Church, society and peoples with their blood! There can be no just and prosperous society where Christ the King does not reign, He who is the Prince of Peace. For the Peace of Christ can only exist in the Kingdom of Christ: Pax Christi in Regno Christi.
    As Mr. Durin has informed me, I know you want to ask me some questions.

    Question: Excellency, Vatican II took place more than 60 years ago, the destruction of the liturgy 50 years ago, Assisi almost 50 years ago; after 60 years of religious and political disaster where everything was destroyed, where faithful Catholics are despised, even unjustly condemned, you are becoming, at 80 years old, a staunch anti-conciliar. Why are you only acting now?
    Answer:

    I have already had the opportunity to testify in my past interventions what my journey of progressive awareness of the crisis afflicting the Catholic Church and the deep causes of the present apostasy has been. As I said then, my involvement in the diplomatic service of the Holy See, (first as a young secretary in the Pontifical Representations in Iraq and Kuwait, then in London; in the Secretariat of State; and then as Head of Mission in Strasbourg at the Council of Europe; then as Apostolic Nuncio in Nigeria; and again at the Secretariat of State as Delegate for the Pontifical Representations, then as Secretary General of the Governorate and finally as Apostolic Nuncio to the United States) my commitment – as I said – to the service of the Holy See, which I tried to carry out with dedication, devoting all my time and strength to it, completely absorbed me, making it practically impossible to reflect in depth on the events that were taking place in the Church.

    However, this did not prevent me from harboring strong inner perplexities and even criticisms of the “novelties” introduced after the Council. I am thinking in particular of the serious liturgical abuses, the crisis in religious life, the Pantheon of Assisi, the deplorable requests for forgiveness for the Crusades, for example, during the Jubilee Year 2000. I am also thinking of what I perceived as a young student at the Gregorian University in Rome. I perceived that all of this stemmed from the new principles laid down by the Council.


    But it was only much later, in the face of the grave scandals of the then Cardinal McCarrick and his entire ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ network, and the even more serious scandals of Bergoglio, that the intrinsic link between doctrinal and moral corruption became clear to me, as well as the deep causes of the crisis that has been raging in the Church for decades, generated by the conciliar revolution.

    And I could not remain silent.

    The catastrophe was foreseeable from the beginning. But as I have explained, we had been trained – in our formation for the priestly ministry and even more so for diplomatic service – to consider it unthinkable that the Pope and the entire Catholic Hierarchy could abuse their authority by exercising it for a purpose contrary to that which Our Lord intended for his Church. We had been taught not to question the authority of Superiors. And this was exploited by those who, precisely by exploiting our obedience and our love for the Church of Christ, slowly, step by step, led us to accept new doctrines, alien to those that Holy Church had always taught, especially with regard to ecuмenism and religious freedom.

    Moreover, just as in the Church the deep church has spread by degrees towards the dissolution of the ecclesial body, so in the civil sphere the deep state has developed in what I would call a similar way, through a progressive infiltration reaching the tyrannical forms of the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr, the World Economic Forum and the Agenda 2030.
    In this case too one might ask: Why didn’t the citizens rebel against the subversion of the state by seditious people who took power in order to destroy the institutions they should have served for the common good?

    Many would answer: We could not imagine their perverse design, their plan to make us slaves to an iniquitous system. We could not believe that when they spoke of democracy or popular sovereignty, they wanted to gradually subject us to a totalitarian power that was radically anti-Christian.

    I consider that the fact of not having understood yesterday the nature of the revolutionary process in progress could be excusable; on the other hand, not understanding today is irresponsible and makes us accomplices of a world coup d’état in temporal things and of apostasy in the ecclesial sphere.

    Let us therefore thank those who, long before us, with their prophetic voice sounded the alarm about the threat to both civil society and the Catholic Church.


    Question: Thank you, Monsignor, I ask you a second question: What do you think of Archbishop Lefebvre and his struggle, particularly in his most controversial act, the Episcopal Consecrations of 1988?


    Response:
    I can only look at Archbishop Lefebvre with admiration and much gratitude for his fidelity and courage. A courage and a fidelity that are unfailing in the face of so much adversity, hostility, and even relentlessness on the part of a hierarchy won over to the ideas of modernity and infiltrated by the Masonic supporters of a project of capillary destruction, without precedent, the devastating scope of which we realize today in its extreme consequences.

    Archbishop Lefebvre must be seen as a holy man, not as a schismatic! As a fervent missionary and confessor of the Faith, a zealous defender of Tradition, the priesthood and the Catholic Mass. He exposed himself to severe sanctions, up to and including excommunication, because he felt that it was more right to obey God than men, to guard and transmit Tradition rather than embrace modernist doctrines.

    His life is marked by piety, a spirit of sacrifice, a sense of duty, a righteousness of conscience and a great inner consistency. His is a life given to God and the Church, devoted to the service of souls, to evangelization, to the teaching and preaching of sound doctrine, to the celebration of the Holy Sacrifice and to the formation of young men called to the priesthood.

    A life that is entirely a witness to the solidity of the Faith handed down to us by the Apostles, the Pontiffs, the Councils and the Holy Doctors of the Faith, and for which the Martyrs shed their blood.

    Some consider the 1988 Consecrations as “a step too far.” Others recognize a vital necessity for the safeguarding of the Mass of all time.
    Archbishop Lefebvre grasped the urgency of the times in which we live and the drama of a situation that has worsened and taken on new accents of gravity in recent years, making more evident the state of exception in which we find ourselves.
    Some speak of disobedience; we speak of fidelity!

    Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre continued to teach and do what the Holy Church has always done and taught. He opposed liberalism, the destruction of the Mass and of the whole liturgical edifice of the Church, the ruin of the priesthood, of religious life and of Christian morals.
    I repeat: some speak of disobedience; we speak of fidelity!

    Question: Thank you, Monsignor, I will ask you one last question before giving you the floor for a final word. Your Excellency, could you explain to us in a few words the project of the Anti-Globalist Federation that you mentioned, and how one can participate in it concretely?

    Answer:

    The Anti-Globalist Alliance is a call that I launched last November, aware of the very serious and unprecedented threat that weighs on all of humanity at this time in history. Aware also of the urgency of building a front of resistance everywhere to counter the planetary coup d’état orchestrated by a very powerful elite with a view to establishing an inhuman and antichristian nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr.

    I have never pretended to be the leader of a movement or to take over its organization. Like a sower, I have cast the seed to the four winds, so that it may be wisely gathered and may bear fruit. I cannot measure the state of its germination.

    The current situation, both at the level of the different nations and on the international scene, is very fluid, dark and difficult to decipher. We only know that we must prepare ourselves inwardly for the events that await us and implore God’s intervention from Heaven.

    Only one thing is certain: it is impossible to resolve the civil and ecclesial crisis in which we are sinking with human means. Man must first of all kneel before his God and King, Our Lord Jesus Christ. Nations and peoples must recognize His Lordship, and the Church must be the first to restore to the King the Crown that usurpers have taken from Him. Let us put Christ back into the center of our hearts and into the center of everything, He who is the Alpha and the Omega. Let us seek first the Kingdom and its righteousness, and all the rest will be given to us in addition.

    Mr Durin: Thank you, Excellency, it is a pity that you did not see the people in the hall, and their joy at having heard a real bishop speak to them, telling them again the eternal truths of the Church. Thank you again on behalf of the Capuchins, the Dominicans of Avrillé who are here, and Father Morgan who is here with us. Thank you for everything, Monsignor. I will give you the floor one last time and thank you very personally for everything you have done for us.

    Archbishop Vigano:

    Dear Mr Durin, I too regret very much not having the possibility of seeing you and above all of being with you on this happy occasion in which you are gathered, to give thanks, to pray together to the Virgin Mary on this eve of the Feast of her Assumption, She who is the principal Patroness of France. Let us therefore renew our act of Hope and turn our gaze towards Heavenly things. Supported by the maternal protection and intercession of the Virgin Mary, the Woman clothed in the Sun who crushes the head of the infernal Dragon under her feet, we can persevere in the battles of this world, with greater strength and courage, but also with humility and trust. And I gladly bless you all: Benedicat vos omnipotens Deus Pater et Filius et Spiritus Sanctus. Amen.




    Offline de Lugo

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    Re: Msgr. Vigano addresses the Resistance and Civitas
    « Reply #24 on: August 31, 2022, 11:20:03 AM »
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  • Abp. Viganò: Abp. Lefebvre not a 'schismatic,' but a 'holy man' with great 'fidelity' to the Church - LifeSite (lifesitenews.com)

    Editor’s note: Below is the Q & A session with Archbishop Viganò held at the end of a conference he gave at the Summer University – CIVITAS on August 14, 2020 in France. His full address can be found HERE.

    (LifeSiteNews) — Dear friends, I am very happy to have been given the opportunity to participate in this edition of your Summer University. It is a great honor for me to be able to offer my warmest greetings to the militants of Civitas, starting with your President, Mr. Alain Escada, the Secretary General, Mr. Léon-Pierre Durin, your dear Chaplain, Father Joseph, as well as the Capuchins of the Resistance.

    By fighting for the re-establishment of the Social Reign of Our Lord Jesus Christ and by fighting against the Masonic oligarchy and against the Davos sect, Civitas finds itself – like David against Goliath – at the heart of the fight of the anti-globalist Alliance that I have called for with all my heart.

    I can only rejoice to know that Civitas have now been established in Switzerland, Belgium, Italy, Canada and Spain, following the example of France, and I believe it is highly desirable that the same initiative be extended everywhere. It is time for Catholics from all over the world to unite to form a common front against globalist tyranny.
    The house built on the Rock is the Catholic Church and Christian civilization. It is also France, baptized in Reims by Saint Remi, built in the alliance of the Throne and the Altar on the day of the coronation of Clovis, King of the Franks.

    There can be no remedy for the evils of our time except in the Social Reign of Our Lord Jesus Christ, in a society reconciled with God, honoring Him, and publicly confessing the Catholic Faith received from the Apostles and faithfully transmitted by the Holy Church down the centuries.
    This is the true counter-revolution.

    Dear friends, keep in your hearts and minds the example of the Martyrs to preserve Christianity and promote the Social Reign of Our Lord Jesus Christ. These martyrs who have fertilized the future of the Church, society and peoples with their blood! There can be no just and prosperous society where Christ the King does not reign, He who is the Prince of Peace. For the Peace of Christ can only exist in the Kingdom of Christ: Pax Christi in Regno Christi.
    As Mr. Durin has informed me, I know you want to ask me some questions.

    Question: Excellency, Vatican II took place more than 60 years ago, the destruction of the liturgy 50 years ago, Assisi almost 50 years ago; after 60 years of religious and political disaster where everything was destroyed, where faithful Catholics are despised, even unjustly condemned, you are becoming, at 80 years old, a staunch anti-conciliar. Why are you only acting now?
    Answer:

    I have already had the opportunity to testify in my past interventions what my journey of progressive awareness of the crisis afflicting the Catholic Church and the deep causes of the present apostasy has been. As I said then, my involvement in the diplomatic service of the Holy See, (first as a young secretary in the Pontifical Representations in Iraq and Kuwait, then in London; in the Secretariat of State; and then as Head of Mission in Strasbourg at the Council of Europe; then as Apostolic Nuncio in Nigeria; and again at the Secretariat of State as Delegate for the Pontifical Representations, then as Secretary General of the Governorate and finally as Apostolic Nuncio to the United States) my commitment – as I said – to the service of the Holy See, which I tried to carry out with dedication, devoting all my time and strength to it, completely absorbed me, making it practically impossible to reflect in depth on the events that were taking place in the Church.

    However, this did not prevent me from harboring strong inner perplexities and even criticisms of the “novelties” introduced after the Council. I am thinking in particular of the serious liturgical abuses, the crisis in religious life, the Pantheon of Assisi, the deplorable requests for forgiveness for the Crusades, for example, during the Jubilee Year 2000. I am also thinking of what I perceived as a young student at the Gregorian University in Rome. I perceived that all of this stemmed from the new principles laid down by the Council.


    But it was only much later, in the face of the grave scandals of the then Cardinal McCarrick and his entire ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ network, and the even more serious scandals of Bergoglio, that the intrinsic link between doctrinal and moral corruption became clear to me, as well as the deep causes of the crisis that has been raging in the Church for decades, generated by the conciliar revolution.

    And I could not remain silent.

    The catastrophe was foreseeable from the beginning. But as I have explained, we had been trained – in our formation for the priestly ministry and even more so for diplomatic service – to consider it unthinkable that the Pope and the entire Catholic Hierarchy could abuse their authority by exercising it for a purpose contrary to that which Our Lord intended for his Church. We had been taught not to question the authority of Superiors. And this was exploited by those who, precisely by exploiting our obedience and our love for the Church of Christ, slowly, step by step, led us to accept new doctrines, alien to those that Holy Church had always taught, especially with regard to ecuмenism and religious freedom.

    Moreover, just as in the Church the deep church has spread by degrees towards the dissolution of the ecclesial body, so in the civil sphere the deep state has developed in what I would call a similar way, through a progressive infiltration reaching the tyrannical forms of the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr, the World Economic Forum and the Agenda 2030.
    In this case too one might ask: Why didn’t the citizens rebel against the subversion of the state by seditious people who took power in order to destroy the institutions they should have served for the common good?

    Many would answer: We could not imagine their perverse design, their plan to make us slaves to an iniquitous system. We could not believe that when they spoke of democracy or popular sovereignty, they wanted to gradually subject us to a totalitarian power that was radically anti-Christian.

    I consider that the fact of not having understood yesterday the nature of the revolutionary process in progress could be excusable; on the other hand, not understanding today is irresponsible and makes us accomplices of a world coup d’état in temporal things and of apostasy in the ecclesial sphere.

    Let us therefore thank those who, long before us, with their prophetic voice sounded the alarm about the threat to both civil society and the Catholic Church.


    Question: Thank you, Monsignor, I ask you a second question: What do you think of Archbishop Lefebvre and his struggle, particularly in his most controversial act, the Episcopal Consecrations of 1988?


    Response:
    I can only look at Archbishop Lefebvre with admiration and much gratitude for his fidelity and courage. A courage and a fidelity that are unfailing in the face of so much adversity, hostility, and even relentlessness on the part of a hierarchy won over to the ideas of modernity and infiltrated by the Masonic supporters of a project of capillary destruction, without precedent, the devastating scope of which we realize today in its extreme consequences.

    Archbishop Lefebvre must be seen as a holy man, not as a schismatic! As a fervent missionary and confessor of the Faith, a zealous defender of Tradition, the priesthood and the Catholic Mass. He exposed himself to severe sanctions, up to and including excommunication, because he felt that it was more right to obey God than men, to guard and transmit Tradition rather than embrace modernist doctrines.

    His life is marked by piety, a spirit of sacrifice, a sense of duty, a righteousness of conscience and a great inner consistency. His is a life given to God and the Church, devoted to the service of souls, to evangelization, to the teaching and preaching of sound doctrine, to the celebration of the Holy Sacrifice and to the formation of young men called to the priesthood.

    A life that is entirely a witness to the solidity of the Faith handed down to us by the Apostles, the Pontiffs, the Councils and the Holy Doctors of the Faith, and for which the Martyrs shed their blood.

    Some consider the 1988 Consecrations as “a step too far.” Others recognize a vital necessity for the safeguarding of the Mass of all time.
    Archbishop Lefebvre grasped the urgency of the times in which we live and the drama of a situation that has worsened and taken on new accents of gravity in recent years, making more evident the state of exception in which we find ourselves.
    Some speak of disobedience; we speak of fidelity!

    Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre continued to teach and do what the Holy Church has always done and taught. He opposed liberalism, the destruction of the Mass and of the whole liturgical edifice of the Church, the ruin of the priesthood, of religious life and of Christian morals.
    I repeat: some speak of disobedience; we speak of fidelity!

    Question: Thank you, Monsignor, I will ask you one last question before giving you the floor for a final word. Your Excellency, could you explain to us in a few words the project of the Anti-Globalist Federation that you mentioned, and how one can participate in it concretely?

    Answer:

    The Anti-Globalist Alliance is a call that I launched last November, aware of the very serious and unprecedented threat that weighs on all of humanity at this time in history. Aware also of the urgency of building a front of resistance everywhere to counter the planetary coup d’état orchestrated by a very powerful elite with a view to establishing an inhuman and antichristian nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr.

    I have never pretended to be the leader of a movement or to take over its organization. Like a sower, I have cast the seed to the four winds, so that it may be wisely gathered and may bear fruit. I cannot measure the state of its germination.

    The current situation, both at the level of the different nations and on the international scene, is very fluid, dark and difficult to decipher. We only know that we must prepare ourselves inwardly for the events that await us and implore God’s intervention from Heaven.

    Only one thing is certain: it is impossible to resolve the civil and ecclesial crisis in which we are sinking with human means. Man must first of all kneel before his God and King, Our Lord Jesus Christ. Nations and peoples must recognize His Lordship, and the Church must be the first to restore to the King the Crown that usurpers have taken from Him. Let us put Christ back into the center of our hearts and into the center of everything, He who is the Alpha and the Omega. Let us seek first the Kingdom and its righteousness, and all the rest will be given to us in addition.

    Mr Durin: Thank you, Excellency, it is a pity that you did not see the people in the hall, and their joy at having heard a real bishop speak to them, telling them again the eternal truths of the Church. Thank you again on behalf of the Capuchins, the Dominicans of Avrillé who are here, and Father Morgan who is here with us. Thank you for everything, Monsignor. I will give you the floor one last time and thank you very personally for everything you have done for us.

    Archbishop Vigano:

    Dear Mr Durin, I too regret very much not having the possibility of seeing you and above all of being with you on this happy occasion in which you are gathered, to give thanks, to pray together to the Virgin Mary on this eve of the Feast of her Assumption, She who is the principal Patroness of France. Let us therefore renew our act of Hope and turn our gaze towards Heavenly things. Supported by the maternal protection and intercession of the Virgin Mary, the Woman clothed in the Sun who crushes the head of the infernal Dragon under her feet, we can persevere in the battles of this world, with greater strength and courage, but also with humility and trust. And I gladly bless you all: Benedicat vos omnipotens Deus Pater et Filius et Spiritus Sanctus. Amen.

    Thank you, sir.

    It seems that LSN has excised the offending greeting from the opening paragraph of Msgr. Vigano's speech, where it originally occurred (see the original link from Medias-Presse supplied at the beginning of this thread), and reinserted it at the opening of the Q&A session (which is separated and removed to a second independent article). 

    Again, I am wondering why?

    Were they hoping that the reader, fatigued by the long speech, would not take the time to go read the -now separated- Q&A session, to which they have removed the greeting?
    Noblesse oblige.

    Offline de Lugo

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    Re: Msgr. Vigano addresses the Resistance and Civitas
    « Reply #25 on: August 31, 2022, 11:36:27 AM »
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  • The plot thickens:

    Medias-Presse has now edited their own original transcript, so that the opening paragraph no longer mentions the "Capuchins of the Resistance," but now says "le Père Joseph, ainsi que les Capucins de la Tradition" (i.e., Fr. Joseph, of the traditional Capuchins).

    https://www.medias-presse.info/udt-civitas-2022-transcription-de-la-conference-de-mgr-vigano-et-de-ses-reponses-aux-questions-des-participants/162066/

    But that it one mentioned the "Capuchins of the Resistance" is proven by the LSN translation (even though they are hiding that now deleted introductory passage in the middle of a separate part 2).

    So it now seems that both Medias-Presse and LSN are afraid of showing Msgr. Vigano on friendly terms with the Resistance (or is Msgr. Vigano the one requesting these changes?).
    Noblesse oblige.


    Offline de Lugo

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    Re: Msgr. Vigano addresses the Resistance and Civitas
    « Reply #26 on: August 31, 2022, 12:07:39 PM »
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  • The plot thickens:

    Medias-Presse has now edited their own original transcript, so that the opening paragraph no longer mentions the "Capuchins of the Resistance," but now says "le Père Joseph, ainsi que les Capucins de la Tradition" (i.e., Fr. Joseph, of the traditional Capuchins).

    https://www.medias-presse.info/udt-civitas-2022-transcription-de-la-conference-de-mgr-vigano-et-de-ses-reponses-aux-questions-des-participants/162066/

    But that it one mentioned the "Capuchins of the Resistance" is proven by the LSN translation (even though they are hiding that now deleted introductory passage in the middle of a separate part 2).

    So it now seems that both Medias-Presse and LSN are afraid of showing Msgr. Vigano on friendly terms with the Resistance (or is Msgr. Vigano the one requesting these changes?).

    "le Père Joseph, ainsi que les Capucins de la Tradition" is better translated as "Fr. Joseph, as well as the traditional Capuchins."  I tried to change that above, but was unable to. 

    The more I think about it, the more I think it may be Msgr. Vigano requesting the information being posted the way it is.

    It is all conjecture, of course, but both outlets have published strong statements from Msgr. Vigano in the past.  It would be interesting to know his reasons, if true.   
    Noblesse oblige.

    Offline ServusInutilisDomini

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    Re: Msgr. Vigano addresses the Resistance and Civitas
    « Reply #27 on: August 31, 2022, 12:33:33 PM »
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  • The plot thickens:

    Medias-Presse has now edited their own original transcript, so that the opening paragraph no longer mentions the "Capuchins of the Resistance," but now says "le Père Joseph, ainsi que les Capucins de la Tradition" (i.e., Fr. Joseph, of the traditional Capuchins).

    https://www.medias-presse.info/udt-civitas-2022-transcription-de-la-conference-de-mgr-vigano-et-de-ses-reponses-aux-questions-des-participants/162066/

    But that it one mentioned the "Capuchins of the Resistance" is proven by the LSN translation (even though they are hiding that now deleted introductory passage in the middle of a separate part 2).

    So it now seems that both Medias-Presse and LSN are afraid of showing Msgr. Vigano on friendly terms with the Resistance (or is Msgr. Vigano the one requesting these changes?).
    If they are deliberately misrepresenting him that is disgusting. However, I do not think it is likely if they both made the same redactions, probably requested by Vigano.

    Offline de Lugo

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    Re: Msgr. Vigano addresses the Resistance and Civitas
    « Reply #28 on: August 31, 2022, 12:48:33 PM »
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  • If they are deliberately misrepresenting him that is disgusting. However, I do not think it is likely if they both made the same redactions, probably requested by Vigano.

    I no longer think they are (I may have jumped the gun in voicing that suspicion).

    However, at least as regards Medias-Presse, what is certain is that they have edited the original transcript which I translated (i.e., from resistance Capucins to traditional Capucins).

    But since Medias-Presse has published many articles in the past favorable to the Capucins and the Resistance, I'm wondering why they should cower away from doing so now? 

    The only added element is the link between Msgr. Vigano and the Resistance/Capucins, which is why I suspect it may be Msgr. Vigano requesting the change.  Obviously, I have no way of knowing whether this is the case.
    Noblesse oblige.

    Offline songbird

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    Re: Msgr. Vigano addresses the Resistance and Civitas
    « Reply #29 on: August 31, 2022, 02:42:23 PM »
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  • No Holy orders, invalid. Persecution, who is being persecuted?  Invalid men or Jesus Christ!  Jesus is persecuted when His Precious Blood is ignored.